500 NW 28th
status=Proposed
owner=Jeremy Foraker and Shaun Fiaccone
sq. feet=9,048 SF

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/viapaseowiki1.jpg

Information & Latest News
As we reported on 3/12/14, this property was sold to an LLC headed by Jeremy Foraker, one of the former leads for Land Run (The Rise) who has formed his own development and brokerage company.

Now, plans have been submitted for a mixed-use project with a restaurant, coffee shop and multi-tenant office space. The building would be 9,048 square feet on two levels and is located on a highly-visible property at the southern entrance to the Paseo District. It is currently a vacant lot.

Shaun Fiaconne, who owns and operates Picasso’s Cafe in the Paseo, will be developing the restaurant concept.
Links
County Assessor Record (http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/Searches/AN-R.asp?ACCOUNTNO=R047246150)
Gallery

I've wondered about this space for some time. Seems like a great place for mixed use and residential.

Great news!

Crap! I was hoping for a beer garden!

Is this the same space rumored to possibly be a bier garten?

Pete's description certainly would not preclude that use. That is a big space that can house multiple tenants and uses.

Crap! I was hoping for a beer garden!

Me too!

Yeah, I had heard a rumor about a beer garden for this site.

Don't think that is happening; at least not here.

Great site for real estate development. A beer garden can go anywhere almost, and tends to thrive in more intimate settings than such a key parcel on a thoroughfare. Which Walker can be.

Article at top of the page has been updated to reflect plans for restaurant, coffee shop and office space in a new 2-story building that has been proposed.

Half the site is taken by parking.

Hmm....

The patio and bar with overhead doors looks slick and will add some much-needed life to the south end of the Paseo.

Half the site is taken by parking.

But, at least the parking is to the south and not fronting the building. It looks like there is a good size patio area and the building is pretty close to the street. I am ok with this layout, not sure how I feel about the design of the building considering what all is around it.

I have two huge problems with this:

1) Objective criticism: If the elevations are to be believed, this building will be 80-90% EIFS with only small amounts of brick and stone. Subjective criticism: It's ugly and the proportions are all wrong. This stands a high likelihood of looking cheap.
2) The site plan could be much better. There is no need to for a curb cut on Walker for the parking lot. This lot adjoins an alley that would provide the necessary vehicular access. Here is my suggestion to make it better: shift the parking lot west, and shrink it a little. Provide parking lot access through the alley. Continue the building along Walker to the alley. Work with the City to provide 2-3 street parking spots on Walker to offset the loss of parking.

I'm working on getting better renderings.

I have two huge problems with this:

1) Objective criticism: If the elevations are to be believed, this building will be 80-90% EIFS with only small amounts of brick and stone. Subjective criticism: It's ugly and the proportions are all wrong. This stands a high likelihood of looking cheap.


Most of the existing buildings on the Paseo strip are EIFS are they not? This might be a case when it is actually appropriate and will fit in with what is already built.

Stucco, used on the existing building stock in Paseo, is a cement based product that is layered over wire mesh. It lasts a long time. EIFS is a synthetic coating applied over foam. If done well, it can look very nice, and it provides good insulation (that's what the "I" stands for). Unfortunately, most EIFS buildings around here tend to look kind of cheap after not too long. Someone smarter than me can tell us why the EIFS I've seen in California and New Mexico looks better than it does here.

Stucco, used on the existing building stock in Paseo, is a cement based product that is layered over wire mesh. It lasts a long time. EIFS is a synthetic coating applied over foam. If done well, it can look very nice, and it provides good insulation (that's what the "I" stands for). Unfortunately, most EIFS buildings around here tend to look kind of cheap after not too long. Someone smarter than me can tell us why the EIFS I've seen in California and New Mexico looks better than it does here.

Well I know that using light colors, especially white like Level did, can look dirty very quick when the wind blows red dirt around.

The material used on LEVEL was not the type of EIFS that is applied over foam board; it was troweled over a cement board product.

I suspect Oklahoma's extreme temperature swings are tough on any applied surface.

Even in the case of traditional stucco, it's mainly used in temperate climates.

The material used on LEVEL was not the type of EIFS that is applied over foam board; it was troweled over a cement board product.
Regardless, color choice wasnt the best


I suspect Oklahoma's extreme temperature swings are tough on any applied surface.

Even in the case of traditional stucco, it's mainly used in temperate climates.

Arizona is temperate?

^

I meant not extremely cold.

The material used on LEVEL was not the type of EIFS that is applied over foam board; it was troweled over a cement board product.

It is cheap stucco and is already problematic. If you want stucco it should be done right. It may be the best fake stucco, but it is still fake stucco. We still have a ways to go here in OKC until we recognize what is good construction and what is not.

LEVEL used one of the best synthetic stuccos.

It is cheap stucco and is already problematic. If you want stucco it should be done right. It may be the best fake stucco, but it is still fake stucco. We still have a ways to go here in OKC until we recognize what is good construction and what is not.

Also what holds up well in the environment. White stucco is going to be a problem in Oklahoma to begin with because of the weather and the red dirt. The existing stock in the Paseo is perfect - both in color and construction quality. It's easily my favorite district in OKC.

It is cheap stucco and is already problematic. If you want stucco it should be done right. It may be the best fake stucco, but it is still fake stucco. We still have a ways to go here in OKC until we recognize what is good construction and what is not.

I wasn't defending it as high-quality; merely pointing out that it wasn't the extruded foam board type after someone suggested it was.

LEVEL used one of the best synthetic stuccos.

Yes, and even the best fake stuccos already has problems and will have going forward.

It is cheap stucco and is already problematic. If you want stucco it should be done right. It may be the best fake stucco, but it is still fake stucco. We still have a ways to go here in OKC until we recognize what is good construction and what is not.

Interesting about comment about "what is good construction and what is not".

I agree with you in the commercial construction, but I believe that residential single family home builders in Okc are some of the best in the region.
A residential home in Okc is built with more quality than I see anywhere that I travel to outside the state. I also hear this from people that are moving into Okc, about how the home quality is some of the best that they have ever seen.

Guess no one's going to build more housing near Paseo. Shame. That's what is needed the most right now.

I wasn't defending it as high-quality; merely pointing out that it wasn't the extruded foam board type after someone suggested it was.

My bad.

We should have better, color renderings in a week or two. They are still working on them.

Also, I confirmed that the area labeled "bar" facing the patio with have overhead doors and be part of the restaurant concept. It will be an ABC2 type of permit, meaning most the sales will come from food but there will be a decent-sized full bar that spills out into the patio area facing Paseo.

I think this project looks pretty slick and from the sample materials shown in the design packet, it appears to be of high-quality.

Guess no one's going to build more housing near Paseo. Shame. That's what is needed the most right now.

NW 24th will probably see multi family housing.

New renderings go into more detail. I think this will turn out pretty nice.

http://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/view.aspx?cabinet=published_meetings&fileid=2458611

This project was presented to the Urban Design Commission yesterday but was continued.

Joy Reed Belt spoke at the meeting and expressed concern over some design elements. She owns and operates Sauced and the art gallery right across the street and said she "didn't want to have to look out on steel mesh" and other elements she found displeasing.

The commission had some concerns of their own and proposed several minor changes and asked for more detailed plans.


The nature of these meetings is that the deadline to subject for the next month is usually less than a week after the previous meeting. So in this case, they may be able to resubmit by the next Tuesday deadline for the October meeting, otherwise this will have to wait until November.

This project was presented to the Urban Design Commission yesterday but was continued.

Joy Reed Belt spoke at the meeting and expressed concern over some design elements. She owns and operates Sauced and the art gallery right across the street and said she "didn't want to have to look out on steel mesh" and other elements she found displeasing.

The commission had some concerns of their own and proposed several minor changes and asked for more detailed plans.


The nature of these meetings is that the deadline to subject for the next month is usually less than a week after the previous meeting. So in this case, they may be able to resubmit by the next Tuesday deadline for the October meeting, otherwise this will have to wait until November.

Typically, if a case is continued, they are allowed to submit revisions up until a few days before publishing deadline, if they are continuing the same practice from when I worked for OKC>

Typically, if a case is continued, they are allowed to submit revisions up until a few days before publishing deadline, if they are continuing the same practice from when I worked for OKC>

The planner at the meeting said they had been allowed to do this for the more recent meeting but specifically said the staff needed more time this time around, and if they can't make Tuesday's deadline they would have to wait until November.

The representative for the project also said that time was of the essence and that they hope to meet the next deadline.

This project was presented to the Urban Design Commission yesterday but was continued.

Joy Reed Belt spoke at the meeting and expressed concern over some design elements. She owns and operates Sauced and the art gallery right across the street and said she "didn't want to have to look out on steel mesh" and other elements she found displeasing.

The commission had some concerns of their own and proposed several minor changes and asked for more detailed plans.


The nature of these meetings is that the deadline to subject for the next month is usually less than a week after the previous meeting. So in this case, they may be able to resubmit by the next Tuesday deadline for the October meeting, otherwise this will have to wait until November.

I understand Joy's concerns, but doesn't it seem she is being just a little hypocritical? After all, Sauced isn't very pleasing to look at either.

Don't really bother me, just thought it was worth noting.

Some interesting details: Planned update, new location painted for Picasso Cafe | okgazette.com (http://okgazette.com/2014/10/01/planned-update-new-location-painted-for-picasso-cafe/)

An unnamed restaurant concept from the Picasso Cafe people will anchor the first floor, and 3,000 square feet of shared office space will be above.

Going back to the urban design committee next week seeking final approval.

More new renderings in the article at the top of the page:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/500nw28121014c.JPG

Looks like a very nice funeral home.

:)

I kid (kinda).

The new renderings look like they were done in MS Paint. I don't know what to think because I can't tell what is going on with the materials. Is it supposed to look like Cafe do Brasil in Midtown? Or more Spanish like what's in the Paseo already?

So is Picasso's moving or will this be a new concept by the same owners?

I think its a mistake if Picasso's is moving. Part of its appeal is the current location and its charm. If they move to a larger location they risk losing that.

New concept; Picasso's not moving.

The new renderings look like they were done in MS Paint. I don't know what to think because I can't tell what is going on with the materials. Is it supposed to look like Cafe do Brasil in Midtown? Or more Spanish like what's in the Paseo already?

Sketchup with artsy line style.

Here is a link to the submittal: http://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/cache/2/3zzjz0yf2ocoyt45zhoijp45/255560612112014103140862.PDF

This is somewhat better than the original elevations indicated. The massing is a little weird with the two large "blocks" sitting on the building's "shoulders", but I'm ok with it. I pulled up the agenda packet and it appears that the building will be 100% stucco with some tile accents. The stone is gone. The architectural success of this project hinges on the materials. I would prefer real stucco with appropriate detailing (similar to the rest of the Paseo). If it is EIFS masquerading as traditional stucco, then I'll be disappointed.

I'm still somewhat uncomfortable with the amount of parking, but it can always be built on top of in the future.

Overall this is a great project and will be an asset to the neighborhood.

Yeah 100% stucco is a must. If it's EIFS in a few years this will look terrible compared to the rest of the building stock. If done right though it will fit in well.

I am not huge on the parking as well but the good thing is its location can easily be built on down the road.

Thanks for the link to the submission, cuatro. I like it a little better after having seen some of those images, but I'm in full agreement with you regarding the success of this development hinging on the materials used.

Also, I'm not sure I love how the patio is situated. Overall though, pretty decent project. Hope it turns out well.

Someone once showed how to post agenda links so that they don't expire but I can't remember now

If you open the pdf and save the url from there, that is a cached link which will expire.

Your best bet is to back up to the full list of pdf docs, right click the one you want to get the link for and select copy link address:

Then paste:

http://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/view.aspx?cabinet=published_meetings&fileid=2555606

If the link has 'cache' in the url, it will expire.

Yeah 100% stucco is a must. If it's EIFS in a few years this will look terrible compared to the rest of the building stock. If done right though it will fit in well.

I am not huge on the parking as well but the good thing is its location can easily be built on down the road.

I spoke with the designer and he assured that it will be "real" stucco.

I spoke with the designer and he assured that it will be "real" stucco.

Did he also assure it won't be a funeral home? LOL Really would have liked to see the building play of the curve of the parcel more; could have done some really cool designs on that property.

I don't like it. I wished it hugged the street more and had more design features.

That's just a quick sketch-up model that makes it looks much more simple than it will be.

The patio follows the curve (and will look great with umbrellas and string lights) the restaurant has two sides that face this outdoor space, and the architecture is very much in keeping with the district.

I bet people will be happy with the finished product and this will bring very much needed new life and development to a district that up until now has been sitting on the sidelines while several other urban districts have been going nuts.

Except that tourist dumbards will try to park in the spots behind my apartment.

That's just a quick sketch-up model that makes it looks much more simple than it will be.

The patio follows the curve (and will look great with umbrellas and string lights) the restaurant has two sides that face this outdoor space, and the architecture is very much in keeping with the district.

I bet people will be happy with the finished product and this will bring very much needed new life and development to a district that up until now has been sitting on the sidelines while several other urban districts have been going nuts.

Paseo's got some stuff going on. This cool project (very important to continue the Mission-style tradition), the Paseo Plunge, the 4-plex thing up on 30th, and now Walker emerging as a cool urban corridor, all come together to create more synergy here than we are used to at least.

Are the apartments on Walker and 24th really happening?

Marva Ellard is the driving force behind the residential project just north of The Rise; there are several boarded up small houses along 24th and then an empty lot to the east.

I was told some time ago the homes would be renovated along with a neighboring 4-plex and new apartments built on the lot.

However, there has been no movement. No design plans filed, etc.

Not sure why this is taking so long.

Has the CHDO (Positively Paseo and Jefferson Park?) in this area still been adding those small infill homes (the income-restricted ones)? I know there's a very nice block or two of those along Walker by the Marva site, probably finished five years ago..

Has the CHDO (Positively Paseo and Jefferson Park?) in this area still been adding those small infill homes (the income-restricted ones)? I know there's a very nice block or two of those along Walker by the Marva site, probably finished five years ago..
Yes, to my knowledge, although I think they've spread out their development to a larger area now.

Marva Ellard is the driving force behind the residential project just north of The Rise; there are several boarded up small houses along 24th and then an empty lot to the east.

I was told some time ago the homes would be renovated along with a neighboring 4-plex and new apartments built on the lot.

However, there has been no movement. No design plans filed, etc.

Not sure why this is taking so long.

I think we can see that the patio follows the curve, but instead of so many harsh angles, it would have been nice to have seen a curved aspect to both he building, and the patio instead of the staggering stair step stucco fence/patio that follows the curve. I agree overall it's a win for the Paseo, and they need much more investment, however the design could have had just a few simple design elements to make this go from boring to WOW, and probably not have affected the construction cost much if any.

Just to be clear, this has not been formally approved.

It goes to the Urban Design Commission on Wednesday (12/17).