Atkinson is also indirectly responsible for OKC's massive city area and resultant sprawl. OKC and the Chamber spearheaded the effort to land Tinker AFB and its civilian jobs, but after they succeeded, Atkinson wisely managed to snap up much of the unincorporated land around it and developed MWC as a separate community (whose sales and property taxes of course never made it to OKC).

Having learned their lesson and not wanting the same thing to happen to them ever again, leaders in OKC went on an epic annexation spree that lasted for years and resulted in our current sparsely-populated and difficult-to-sustain land mass. Law of unintended consequences.

I love that summary. It is so on-target that words fail me.
(would have simply clicked the Like button, but it seems to be gone.)

Look at a plan view or aerial map of the old part of MWC sometime.
Then tell me that it doesn't look like something from the Nazca Plains down there in America del Sur.
I used to live on one branch of "the menorah" (renting, for a short period of time).
There certainly was a certain "vibe" about the place.
Unrelated to jet aircraft landing.
Maybe. =)

I forget: How did WP(bill)A get dragged into a discussion about The Infamous Guest House Murders?

Just a bit of mention of ancient history; word association took over from there.

Lynne -- the Pei Plan, in one sentence, is what destroyed downtown OKC in the 70s.

Just a bit of mention of ancient history; word association took over from there.

Lynne -- the Pei Plan, in one sentence, is what destroyed downtown OKC in the 70s.

If there was a Three Thumbs Up button I would click it.
Suffice it to say, since there ain't . . .

[. . . --the Pei Plan, in one sentence, is what destroyed downtown OKC in the 70s]
. . . and someone had to Pay for It.

Pei Plan - knock down a bunch of stuff. build a bunch of shiny new stuff.
They began the plan aggressively enough, then got tired and took a long freaking nap.

Pei Plan - knock down a bunch of stuff. build a bunch of shiny new stuff.
They began the plan aggressively enough, then got tired and took a long freaking nap.

LOL. You guys.

i remember Downtown was at it's lowest point in the late 60's early 70's then they built that concrete thing and then the Myriad. I can't wait for September to get here. Got friends up there that have offered me the Grande Tour. I've been back a few times in the late 80's, again right after the Bombing (started driving that night because we couldn't get a flight out quick enough.) Oklahoma City will always be home to me. That place that when you go back there, they have to take you in.
I think if you are from there you need to go home periodically to get a fresh infusion, a red dirt fix to sustain you in the hinterlands which is down here in Texas, the place Dan Jenkins called 'Baja Oklahoma'.
I'm keeping my eye on you guys now, peeking in now and again hoping for news of my OT. Even though the thread got a little hi-jacked it was a most pleasant robbery. I could 'listen' to y'all all day and night. And such gentlemen. Rare in these days and times.

See you soon. I'll never go completely away but I've got leads to follow, appointments to keep and miles to go before I sleep.
I wish gen70 would have come back to me.

You can reach me at dgirl77040@aol.com

PS left y'all a few back in the day pix.

@causeLynne I really could not describe him clearly because it was a long time ago and we were drink'n and smok'n but, I do recall that one of the two guy's told me that he had been a student at Columbia University at one point.

@ Lynne, I couldn't honestly describe the other two men I met at Marvin's apt. that day because I had been smoke'n and drink'n .

Followed 'usual lines' if slinging mud was 'usual'. I really think that's why he lost. It was just too much. I do remember Henry Bellmon.

So getting back on topic. Did they look at the ex-wife and her husband that were living in NC but were in Ok. at the time of the shooting? From the way I was reading it sounded like the ex didn't want Ray seeing the kids. It also said that the ex. tried to get Ray to come to NC but he refused.

This all sounds pretty fishy to me once you start reading about it.

Pei Plan - knock down a bunch of stuff. build a bunch of shiny new stuff.
They began the plan aggressively enough, then got tired and took a long freaking nap.

Weird bunch up there. What with Gaylord and all. I thought we'd never get liquor by the drink. When I left you still had to bring your own bottle to a club and pay for 'set-ups'.

So getting back on topic. Did they look at the ex-wife and her husband that were living in NC but were in Ok. at the time of the shooting? From the way I was reading it sounded like the ex didn't want Ray seeing the kids. It also said that the ex. tried to get Ray to come to NC but he refused.

This all sounds pretty fishy to me once you start reading about it.

Did I tell ya or did I tell ya? This thing has a real surprise ending. I knew Patsy. Strange little bird to say the least. Came from Jehovah's Witnesses and turned out for Ray. Wouldn't I love to pick her brain. I found his son on Facebook. Put in for a 'friends' dealie. We shall see what we shall see.

So getting back on topic. Did they look at the ex-wife and her husband that were living in NC but were in Ok. at the time of the shooting? From the way I was reading it sounded like the ex didn't want Ray seeing the kids. It also said that the ex. tried to get Ray to come to NC but he refused.

This all sounds pretty fishy to me once you start reading about it.


@causeLynne I really could not describe him clearly because it was a long time ago and we were drink'n and smok'n but, I do recall that one of the two guy's told me that he had been a student at Columbia University at one point.

Well, you can call that guy 'Not Ray'.:)

When I flew to Dallas in '74, Ray had been shot. He told me he walked into a 7-11 store robbery. Researching I find it was actually Patsy that shot him. He wanted to take me back to SC with him then. I refused and he drove me back to Houston. We fought all the way ( we did that a lot. But as the man said, 'That was our dance.') and when I got to the front door I slammed the car door, probably flipped him the bird while he shook his head and laughed (he did that a lot, too)and I never spoke to him again.

When I flew to Dallas in '74, Ray had been shot. He told me he walked into a 7-11 store robbery. Researching I find it was actually Patsy that shot him. He wanted to take me back to SC with him then. I refused and he drove me back to Houston. We fought all the way ( we did that a lot. But as the man said, 'That was our dance.') and when I got to the front door I slammed the car door, probably flipped him the bird while he shook his head and laughed (he did that a lot, too)and I never spoke to him again.

So McBride(the cop) just had a hunch after someone gave him a brief description of the shooter and fingered the guy from Tyler Texas that was at a rodeo all evening. So the shooter jumps in a jet flies to Ok. City and commits the crime in just a few hour time period? And there's no question that he was in Tyler Texas because he had many witnesses that backed him up. Not other criminals but upstanding people that seen him,talked to him and hung out with him and many others at the rodeo. But McBride put the finger on this guy from the start so it had to be him,right. Sounds like a true case of rushing to judgement.

Well all I can say is that someone should make a movie of this and bring out the true facts. The more I read the crazier this story gets. I must admit that I have never given it much thought but after reading this thread and doing a little checking it's pretty plain to me that there was some very shady stuff going on.

Followed 'usual lines' if slinging mud was 'usual'. I really think that's why he lost. It was just too much. I do remember Henry Bellmon.


So McBride(the cop) just had a hunch after someone gave him a brief description of the shooter and fingered the guy from Tyler Texas that was at a rodeo all evening. So the shooter jumps in a jet flies to Ok. City and commits the crime in just a few hour time period? And there's no question that he was in Tyler Texas because he had many witnesses that backed him up. Not other criminals but upstanding people that seen him,talked to him and hung out with him and many others at the rodeo. But McBride put the finger on this guy from the start so it had to be him,right. Sounds like a true case of rushing to judgement.

Well all I can say is that someone should make a movie of this and bring out the true facts. The more I read the crazier this story gets. I must admit that I have never given it much thought but after reading this thread and doing a little checking it's pretty plain to me that there was some very shady stuff going on.

I'm thinking the cover up started with Harold Behrens (det) but what his connection to Leonard Crown (Patsy's husband at the time) and how that conversation went down is crucial. Such a co-incidence there would be two shooters, look-a-likes, same gold tipped hollow point 45's (very rare at the time)and how the word would get to Crowe unless he knew Behrens or at least Paul Mazzel whom Ray supposedly ripped off.
Behrens patted him on the shoulder that night before he left, literally putting a bulls eye on Rays back. Who knew what and when and how did it come together? A colossal coincidence. a quick trip to Madill to see Patsys parents, Crowe having a mustache when he got there but came back without one.

And lastly, why no follow up? after they let Henry Bowen go in 86? Was it because everybody was glad to see Ray go and considered it poetic justice, let it ride? It had happened before.

One more small thing. Crowe was a SC boy but he died in Ardmore a few years back.He was released in 86 and had a new wife as early as 1987. Patsy was no longer around. But he stayed close to her it seems.

So McBride(the cop) just had a hunch after someone gave him a brief description of the shooter and fingered the guy from Tyler Texas that was at a rodeo all evening. So the shooter jumps in a jet flies to Ok. City and commits the crime in just a few hour time period? And there's no question that he was in Tyler Texas because he had many witnesses that backed him up. Not other criminals but upstanding people that seen him,talked to him and hung out with him and many others at the rodeo. But McBride put the finger on this guy from the start so it had to be him,right. Sounds like a true case of rushing to judgement.

Well all I can say is that someone should make a movie of this and bring out the true facts. The more I read the crazier this story gets. I must admit that I have never given it much thought but after reading this thread and doing a little checking it's pretty plain to me that there was some very shady stuff going on.

That's the plan.

Am I right that this hotel was just NE of the Classen Traffic Circle, behind the complex that is now home to Hi-Lo, Drunken Fry, Classen Grill, etc.? There is a newer hotel on-site now, built in the past 6 or 7 years.

I would definitely watch this movie.

There is no shortage of homicides in this state that would make for interesting adaptations to a screen ,big or small.

Interesting blog regarding the Dixie Mafia.

Dixie Mafia, Part 1 | The State Crime Bureau Journal (http://statecrimebureau.wordpress.com/2009/10/21/dixie-mafia-part-1/)

Interesting blog regarding the Dixie Mafia.

Dixie Mafia, Part 1 | The State Crime Bureau Journal (http://statecrimebureau.wordpress.com/2009/10/21/dixie-mafia-part-1/)

The complete blog is very interesting!

Am I right that this hotel was just NE of the Classen Traffic Circle, behind the complex that is now home to Hi-Lo, Drunken Fry, Classen Grill, etc.? There is a newer hotel on-site now, built in the past 6 or 7 years.

Correct. If you go to the Map Index on this site, and go to "50th & Western, you can plainly see it in the areal shot. Even the swimming pool where the murders occurred is visible.

The complete blog is very interesting!Definitely! I didn't find anything past Part 2 though. Wasn't an Edmondson girl also involved with the younger Nix?

Definitely! I didn't find anything past Part 2 though. Wasn't an Edmondson girl also involved with the younger Nix?

I was looking for part 3 but couldn't find it. Part 2 left some things up in the air. Interesting read for sure.

Pody was an alumnus of Classen high school, and contributed a copy of his autobiography to our alumni association's museum. Unfortunately the museum has been closed for several years due to the MAPS renovation of the Classen building; we hope to have it open to the public again sometime this summer, though, and everything in our "Authors Alley" collection (including works by Bill Gulick and Louis L'Amour) can be read by any visitor.

Many of his games were held at his home in Nichols Hills...

I talked to my friend this evening and asked him about this. He didn't say a whole lot other than Poe and his dad were good friends and that he used to visit Poe's casino in Nichols Hills himself when he was younger. He said Pody Poe was really a pretty good guy.

WOW! Great question. Yes. I knew Ray was killed about a year after it happened. I was in Ft Lauderdale by then, we split in 72/73. saw him once more in 75 ( he called me in Houston and I flew to Dallas to see him) he'd been shot, and NOT by who he said did it) I didn't catch it at the time, but court records have cleared that up. Now recent re-connections with old (emphasis on 'old', I'm 66 now) friends have given me an entire new take. I never knew any of the particulars and the more I began to dig the weirder it got. Ray was a semi pimp, not in the old movie sense of standing outside the building and psst psst-ing in the tricks but the kind of guy that took care of me. Hot bath when I got home, a good joint, or glass of wine, whatever and then we drove to some all night joint, the Canadian Club out by Tuttle (if memory serves) and danced and socialized all night with our own kind. Hot pony cars, sleeping all day, working half the night and playing the rest. We didn't work the streets. Back in the day it was all call service, more Klute than Taxi Driver. there was no need for an actual pimp. They called it 'joining each other out.' As in out into 'the life'.
It was hedonistic and self-indulgent but we were kids and it was never going to end, right?

Ray was good to me, if you can get your head around that. Lots of girls didn't have it half as good as me and my friends did. No beatings, no terrorizing unless I was in a bad mood.In our own way we lived a very normal life.

so to answer your question, do I want to re-live that and make it more beautiful than it was? Maybe. But sometimes it just comes down to your own 'life more examined' and plus there is some real Quinton Tarrantino stuff that went on. it's a great story, with or without me being included in any of it.
You pick.

Thanks for you insightful question. I think this is where a lot of the ideas come from.


HI, I am the daughter of Fred Weed. Being as you have done a lot of research on this matter I know you are aware of the connection. I am just curious if you ever met my dad? I know this is an old thread and you may never get this but thought I would ask.