This is from a presentation by the OKC Airport Trust to be made to City Council:


FULL PRESENTATION (http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/airportfeb14.pdf)



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Everything I've heard recently is that we weren't expanding the airport anytime soon. This is out of left field. Am I the only one that thinks that?


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This is awesome! Hopefully it happens. I want to see a skylink type light-rail though going from the airport to the (future) off-site rental car facility.

Don't get me wrong, I think this is great. Just seems random.

This is awesome! Hopefully it happens. I want to see a skylink type light-rail though going from the airport to the (future) off-site rental car facility.

That would be nice. I love riding the one at DFW airport. It will be nice to see OKC get a larger airport. Count me as one that's skeptical though at this point.

Don't get me wrong, I think this is great. Just seems random.I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that. When were you thinking it was going to happen? Most developments come at random, don't they?

A lot needs to happen in order for the actual gate expansion. Such as relocating the belly cargo facility and environmental site issues.
Looks like they want to go ahead and get Phase I out of the way, so it is ready, and would make the 3 gate add-on a less time involved process.

I don't think they are wanting to do Phase II (adding the actual gates/east concourse stub) right now.

That would be nice. I love riding the one at DFW airport. It will be nice to see OKC get a larger airport. Count me as one that's skeptical though at this point.

Why are you such a pessimist? If this was announced in Tulsa, you'd be screaming at how they just got confirmed as the next world megahub. But since this is OKC, you are just skeptical that they will add the 3 gates they are talking about.

Get a grip.

That would be nice. I love riding the one at DFW airport. It will be nice to see OKC get a larger airport. Count me as one that's skeptical though at this point.Yeah, the one in DFW is cool, although I have never got a chance to ride it. I have been on the one in Houston and it is ok, I just hope they do Maglev here so it isn't so bumpy.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that. When were you thinking it was going to happen? Most developments come at random, don't they?

I mean, a lot of people have talked about the airport not expanding any time soon and then here is this proposal to expand.

A lot needs to happen in order for the actual gate expansion. Such as relocating the belly cargo facility and environmental site issues.
Looks like they want to go ahead and get Phase I out of the way, so it is ready, and would make the 3 gate add-on a less time involved process.

I don't think they are wanting to do Phase II (adding the actual gates/east concourse stub) right now.Are there any timelines at all?

Are there any timelines at all?

Not sure.

I am with Andrew, this is very random.

Usually the airport trust will discuss things (even if vaguely). All their recent meetings they make no mention or hint that they are ready to go, or have been thinking about it. In fact the most recent discussion that I can recall was a few years ago where they said any expansion was on hold indefinitely. And now we have this.

I mean, a lot of people have talked about the airport not expanding any time soon and then here is this proposal to expand.Oh, I see. I just didn't understand whether this was part of their long-term plan or if they are trying to fast track this.

OKC should be a hub.

OKC should be a hub.

Maybe when we get another 2+ million residents :)

Maybe when we get another 2+ million residents :)

Memphis is a hub and they are very comparable to OKC in size and economic clout. I think OKC would be a hub if it wasn't so close to DFW but I could be wrong.

Memphis is a hub and they are very comparable to OKC in size and economic clout. I think OKC would be a hub if it wasn't so close to DFW but I could be wrong.

Memphis was dehubbed. Cleveland was also dehubbed.

Trust me; in an industry where we literally track things down to the penny. If there was money to be made by having a hub in Oklahoma City, the industry would have put one here.

Come up with "Airline Hubs for Dummies" and the world will beat a path to your door.*

*No they won't. They will still ignore historial airline network development, subsequent airline mergers and consolidation, and the economic reality of the airline industry in general. They will still think we should have a hub.

Memphis was dehubbed. Cleveland was also dehubbed.

Beat me to it. These are excellent examples. If people would only take the time to understand why they were dehubbed....

Nm

Not sure.

I am with Andrew, this is very random.

Usually the airport trust will discuss things (even if vaguely). All their recent meetings they make no mention or hint that they are ready to go, or have been thinking about it. In fact the most recent discussion that I can recall was a few years ago where they said any expansion was on hold indefinitely. And now we have this.

So does this mean that the usage of WRWA is growing at a better-than-expected rate necessitating an sooner-than-expected expansion?

Not sure if I would call it random but more of preparing for the future. From the presentation Pete linked at the top, 88% of gates are committed. If people want to invest in a direct link to OKC, they have to get in pretty quickly or wait several years (not sure of the start time or finish time on this). I would think it they wanted to do another expansion in the future, one or two expansions south where there used to be more gates would be the way to go.

Not sure if I would call it random but more of preparing for the future. From the presentation Pete linked at the top, 88% of gates are committed. If people want to invest in a direct link to OKC, they have to get in pretty quickly or wait several years (not sure of the start time or finish time on this). I would think it they wanted to do another expansion in the future, one or two expansions south where there used to be more gates would be the way to go.
To be noted, AA wanting a third gate was not represented in that figure. (Since it has not been signed) that would bring the airport to only one gate left available for leasing.

I agree with the timing of this, but I also agree it is random in the sense that usually they discuss these things for several meetings before they make official proposals.

So does this mean that the usage of WRWA is growing at a better-than-expected rate necessitating an sooner-than-expected expansion?

Growth has been somewhat flat, airlines (United and American) just simply have wanted more gates. (Merger related)

The study for this expansion has been ongoing for awhile. I think you can find some info about it in the other Will Rogers/Commercial air forums. It would seem that the most pressing need is to upgrade/combine the TSA checkpoints and create a central greeting/exit area since that is all kind of a cluster right now (I'm sure Pete would agree). There was an expansion phase as part of the original WRWA renovation plan and I think this is just updating that plan so that something is in place going forward. I think at least Phase 1 of this will happen relatively soon, though the gate expansion probably won't for awhile.

The study for this expansion has been ongoing for awhile. I think you can find some info about it in the other Will Rogers/Commercial air forums. It would seem that the most pressing need is to upgrade/combine the TSA checkpoints and create a central greeting/exit area since that is all kind of a cluster right now (I'm sure Pete would agree).

As I've stated several times, the escalator/stairs down for arriving passengers should be BEFORE they get to the common, non-secured area in the upper level.

That way, you completely separate arriving and departing passengers and have greeters wait downstairs where they belong and where all the ground transportation is anyway. Keeps them completely away from the ticket counters and security screening areas.

Why we refuse to do this is a mystery to me and defies all common sense.

As I've stated several times, the escalator/stairs down for arriving passengers should be BEFORE they get to the common, non-secured area in the upper level.

That way, you completely separate arriving and departing passengers and have greeters wait downstairs where they belong and where all the ground transportation is anyway. Keeps them completely away from the ticket counters and security screening areas.

Why we refuse to do this is a mystery to me and defies all common sense.

It at least seems like it will be better with this renovation. Separating the exit from the TSA Check point is a start. There is also definitely no reason for us to have two small checkpoints , Love field and Houston Hobby are similar in size to what WRWA will be when it's complete and do pretty well with single, large checkpoints. If you haven't been there since the renovation, Love Field is awesome now.

As I've stated several times, the escalator/stairs down for arriving passengers should be BEFORE they get to the common, non-secured area in the upper level.

That way, you completely separate arriving and departing passengers and have greeters wait downstairs where they belong and where all the ground transportation is anyway. Keeps them completely away from the ticket counters and security screening areas.

Why we refuse to do this is a mystery to me and defies all common sense.

I agree.

I see people all the time waiting for their ride up stairs on the departure level. Usually overhear them on the phone "OH! You are downstairs? I'll go down there!" It's absurd how they set it up. And looks like how they will continue to have it setup.

It's the whole point of two levels!

One is for departures and the other for arrivals -- they are even labeled that way.


I just don't understand the thinking and why after multiple renovations (and yet another expensive one now proposed) this is never even considered.


There should simply be two down escalators; one near each of the terminal concourses BEHIND security.

Growth has been somewhat flat, airlines (United and American) just simply have wanted more gates. (Merger related)

Still wondering what the implications of rebanking DFW will be if aircraft have to spend more time at the outstations.

Having used WRWA for the first time since the remodel they just need to tear this whole place to the ground and start over. It is a state-wide embarrassment. There is little wonder people drive to DFW.

Oh this should be good, I'm all ears...

Pete...that's ridiculous they won't fix the escalator deal. I'd like to hear a reason.

Having used WRWA for the first time since the remodel they just need to tear this whole place to the ground and start over. It is a state-wide embarrassment. There is little wonder people drive to DFW.

???

That's very extreme and harsh.

I actually like the airport apart from the greeters-encouraged-to-wait-upstairs aspect. And even that isn't a huge deal, it just defies logic, especially since they have ample opportunity to fix it.

I'll expand on my thougts when I have regular keyboard and mouse, and not a phone.

Having used WRWA for the first time since the remodel they just need to tear this whole place to the ground and start over. It is a state-wide embarrassment. There is little wonder people drive to DFW.

WTF? Other than Pete's concerns and the TSA area (which would be improved under the new proposal) I have no issues with WRWA. I've been to dozens of airports across the country and many world-wide and WRWA is one of the nicer regional airports I've been to.


It's the whole point of two levels!

One is for departures and the other for arrivals -- they are even labeled that way.

This made me think of the opening scene from Airplane!

WTF? Other than Pete's concerns and the TSA area (which would be improved under the new proposal) I have no issues with WRWA. I've been to dozens of airports across the country and many world-wide and WRWA is one of the nicer regional airports I've been to.


+1 -- What more could you ask for from a city this size?

Regarding the TSA issues, in fairness the last remodel was already well underway before all the mandated changes in security.


One other design flaw: Why are the parking structures so far removed from the terminal? To get from baggage claim to the shuttle / taxi curb and to the rental cars and parking beyond, you walk across a big, open plaza... Why??

On hot/cold/rainy/snowy/windy days there is only a narrow covered canopy and you feel the full force of the elements. And absolutely nobody is going to hang out there -- there aren't even places to sit or shade.

I know there is an underground tunnel but the first 100 yards is just to get past nothingness. And it doesn't help with the transport curb.

Which is another reason I hate this separate rental car facility, because you have to stand out there with no real shelter.

Why is the second drive so far removed from the one under the nice, covered, protected space for passenger pick-up?

http://www.leidos.com/sites/default/files/styles/rotator_image_small/public/WRWATerminal_2.jpg?itok=gfDhIIuk

There is a tunnel to the garages, Pete. I agree about the placement of the transportation plaza. Major fail, people don't walk in that garden and it serves no purpose other than further separation between the transportation plaza and the terminal. They should have made the transportation plaza butt up right next to the arrivals level roadway. So you would have your general arrival roadway for regular people, then a median where people can wait for buses, taxis, etc. like most every other airport does.

Last time I was in town, I got a great deal on a rental car that required a shuttle.

So, I go stand out at the curb, freezing my arse off in the cold wind.

I stood there for about 10 minutes, cursed a blue streak, then finally went back inside and rented from Enterprise.


And this was in the early fall in pretty decent weather. I dread being forced to take the rental shuttle.

I think the rental car shuttle will be on 5 minute peak head ways.

I agree with the posters coming to Will Roger's defense. I do a lot of flying going back home to KC, and from where I'm at now that requires a lot of connecting flights in much larger airports. I love Will Rogers based on the couple times I've been there. Seemed a lot more updated and clean than a lot of bigger airports that I've been to, especially when I compare it to Kansas City's airport. KC's airport is dreadful. It's easy to fly in/out of but it's put together kind of funky and it's not very appealing on the eyes.

In the end, I don't understand why others want OKC's airport to be some huge DFW clone. OKC shouldn't and won't ever be a huge airport for connecting flights like DFW, Atlanta, etc. I just want a modern looking airport that is easy to come and go from, which I think it already does pretty well. Extra renovations/additions to accommodate increased business/pleasure travel is obviously still a bonus.

Oh this should be good, I'm all ears...

Pete...that's ridiculous they won't fix the escalator deal. I'd like to hear a reason.

I wonder if anyone on Council is smart enough to bring the issue up tomorrow?

I wonder if there is a phase to realign the runways to allow for future expansion...

From the background slide:


The new Convention Center in downtown OKC will increase convention and tourism travel through the airport.

As the business environment in Oklahoma City continues to flourish, planning for expansion is imperative to meet the growing demands of air service to support economic development, tourism, and convention business.


Probably best not to bother with this expansion then given that the Convention Center will shortly be cancelled.

WTF? Other than Pete's concerns and the TSA area (which would be improved under the new proposal) I have no issues with WRWA. I've been to dozens of airports across the country and many world-wide and WRWA is one of the nicer regional airports I've been to.

I agree.

If anybody ever ends up in Augusta, GA and sees their airport, you'll be thankful for WRWA. Same with the Columbia Metropolitan Airport in Columbia, SC.

I agree.

If anybody ever ends up in Augusta, GA and sees their airport, you'll be thankful for WRWA. Same with the Columbia Metropolitan Airport in Columbia, SC.

Just had the same thought for ATL today as I flew there for the first time.

Just had the same thought for ATL today as I flew there for the first time.

You can't really compare WRWA to Atlanta airport though. It's a major world hub and WRWA is a regional spoke airport. When it comes to large airports, I prefer DFW to Atlanta.

You can't really compare WRWA to Atlanta airport though. It's a major world hub and WRWA is a regional spoke airport. When it comes to large airports, I prefer DFW to Atlanta.

Well aware. I preferred DFW and O'Hare to Atlanta. Maybe it was the spotty weather that jumbled up so many flights, but it was a hike from gate to baggage and then I had to take the train past three or four terminals to get to the rental car facility.

You can't really compare WRWA to Atlanta airport though. It's a major world hub and WRWA is a regional spoke airport. When it comes to large airports, I prefer DFW to Atlanta.

You can't compare them in size, but you definitely can compare them in design. I flew into Atlanta about a month ago. Maybe I was in one of the older terminals or something, but it was a dump compared to WRWA. I hope for their sake that all the terminals aren't like that.

Not sure if I would call it random but more of preparing for the future. From the presentation Pete linked at the top, 88% of gates are committed. If people want to invest in a direct link to OKC, they have to get in pretty quickly or wait several years (not sure of the start time or finish time on this). I would think it they wanted to do another expansion in the future, one or two expansions south where there used to be more gates would be the way to go.

The long (long) term plan has one more gate concourse south of the terminal, though keep in mind this is the same grounds plan that is leaving space for if we might ever need another 10,000-ish N/S runway parallel to the two main ones southwest of where runways & taxiways are now.


I wonder if there is a phase to realign the runways to allow for future expansion...

The airports site plan easily doubles the current number of gates without moving the runways/taxiways, if we really needed them there are was to add several more could be added on top of that. For the foreseeable future we have less destinations that can be served profitably than space to build new gates, there are some cities with three or four times the enplanements that OKC has with only a few more destinations, outside of ones with some sort of unique geographical/destination advantage most of those would be somewhere between well served to having plenty of spare capacity at double our current number of gates. The idea I got was that the possibility of an additional runway southwest of the existing ones, was it would be in addition to the existing ones, not replacing but realistically even at triple the current number of gates I am not sure we would would be in need another major N/S runway.

You can't compare them in size, but you definitely can compare them in design. I flew into Atlanta about a month ago. Maybe I was in one of the older terminals or something, but it was a dump compared to WRWA. I hope for their sake that all the terminals aren't like that.

In my experience it can vary greatly at the same airport. A number of years back I flew in and out of Dulles on a regular basis, and the difference between the concourses there is striking. Some are big and open and modern, and others make you feel like you are trapped in a Vacation movie.

If you guys are content with an airport that rivals Augusta, GA and Monroe, LA then more power to you - its your airport. Here are some of my observations

1) 1975 called, they want their brown stonework back. It is bad enough inside the terminal but that plaza out front is WAY too much. At least the went with brown wall paneling to off-set it.
2) Signage sucks.
3) The curved nature of the main terminal greatly reduce sight distance and it is curved the wrong way. All of the things a person wants to do are hidden from view around the curve. In the passenger boarding area you should be able to see all the shops, either with curvature going the other way or with straight line of sight. The same goes with rental cars. It was a freaking mystery as I made my way around the curve looking for Budget.
4) Way too many interior columns. They block line of sight everywhere you try to look.
5) Tile floor with grout, who does that in a heavy pedestrian environment? Malls from 1985 do - that's who. That grout needs a serious steam cleaning.
6) The rental car issue is being taken of but the signage to find my car didn't even exist. I had to wander around looking for space 317 because I sure didn't see any signs directing me to the 300 section until I was right at the 300 section.
7) That security check point (the one by Delta) was a freaking joke. I fully expected to see people with live chickens with that kind of setup. There wasn't even a place to store/stack the empty bins except on the table where you are trying to unload your stuff for the x-ray machine. Plus the prep area to do that was all of about 10 feet long which really meant only 1 person at a time could prepare their belonging for security. Then they don't even have a place to put all your stuff back on or put laptops back in their case.
8) What is the deal with that big departure board at gate 22? From the security line you can't even see the whole board because of the interior columns. You can either see the departing city or the departing gate/time but you can't see both at the same time. Then once inside the terminal it is as such an angle that you can't even see it unless you look straight up.
9) Ceiling height down in baggage claim is straight out of 1970.
10) I agree with Pete about the departing passengers having to go through the arriving passengers - and that escalator wasn't even working yesterday so everyone had to take the elevator. Is that the only escalator up to ticketing because I didn't see any others?
11) If there were enough passengers to actually fill a mainline aircraft there wouldn't be enough seats at the gate for everyone to sit and wait. This isn't a hub where most people arrive just in time to board their next flight. Of course, my flight to ATL only had 18 people on it so gate seating wasn't an issue.

If there is a MAPS IV it should only contain 3 projects.
1) Brand new WRWA - scrap everything from the economy lot to the last boarding gate
2) Regional rail
3) Bus system improvement

I like the option of deplaning and staying on the upper level when I am being picked up. I rarely travel with checked bags and downstairs is a congested nightmare, so I walk straight to a waiting car and leave.

The rental car relocation was wrong in my opinion. As Pete wrote, waiting for a shuttle to take you to the car adds a pickup point to identify and walk to, another line to wait in, another mode of conveyance to endure.

I appreciate the walk between garage and terminal, especially underground via moving sidewalk. But it's stark down there, with the only memorable decorations being glass cubes filled with seized contraband. Take a hint from DTW's tunnel connecting Terminal A to Terminal B/C. We don't need all of the lights and music, but please give us something other than harsh fluorescent lights, sight lines receding to a vanishing point, and silence.

You've won me over JTF. And let me add I don't like the bathroom fixtures or the bathroom color schemes. The doors on the maintenance closets are hideous. The sliding entrance doors slide the wrong way. The tint on the windows is all wrong and don't even get me started on the H/AC vents!

Seriously though, I really love the refurbished WRWA. Given the existing structure, nothing could be done about the ceiling heights in baggage claim or the curvature of the terminal (which doesn't bother me at all). And for that matter, WTH does "it is curved the wrong way" even mean?

Also, I may be wrong, but I believe the gap between the Terminal and the parking garage was a federal mandate after 9/11. There used to be parking in that area that everyone is now complaining about.

If WRWA is torn down and rebuilt from scratch, are we going to tear it down again and rebuild in 20 years when someone doesn't like the color scheme?

Again, I'm very happy with the new updates (which were much needed). WRWA is not DFW or SFX and doesn't need to be, but it is one of the nicest regional airports that I've been to. And here is a short list of some airports that I have been to recently that it is better than: KC, STL, CIN, BWI, National, La Guardia, San Diego, Orly, Charles Degaulle and Glasgow.

If you live in OKC WRWA is quick and easy to get in and out. The shuttle parking is fast and reasonable. Okay, it sucks as a shopping mall and probably the restaurants leave a lot to be desired but heck I'm one of those crazy fools who head to the airport just to catch a plane not to eat or shop for next year's wardrobe.

I would imagine its extremely unlikely anybody would be at WRWA for a layover being that its a regional spoke and not a hub. The only reason I can think of anyone would have to spend a decent amount of time there is if flights were delayed/cancelled due to severe weather or something. Am I right in that assessment?

You've won me over JTF. And let me add I don't like the bathroom fixtures or the bathroom color schemes. The doors on the maintenance closets are hideous. The sliding entrance doors slide the wrong way. The tint on the windows is all wrong and don't even get me started on the H/AC vents!

Seriously though, I really love the refurbished WRWA. Given the existing structure, nothing could be done about the ceiling heights in baggage claim or the curvature of the terminal (which doesn't bother me at all). And for that matter, WTH does "it is curved the wrong way" even mean?

Also, I may be wrong, but I believe the gap between the Terminal and the parking garage was a federal mandate after 9/11. There used to be parking in that area that everyone is now complaining about.

If WRWA is torn down and rebuilt from scratch, are we going to tear it down again and rebuild in 20 years when someone doesn't like the color scheme?

Again, I'm very happy with the new updates (which were much needed). WRWA is not DFW or SFX and doesn't need to be, but it is one of the nicest regional airports that I've been to. And here is a short list of some airports that I have been to recently that it is better than: KC, STL, CIN, BWI, National, La Guardia, San Diego, Orly, Charles Degaulle and Glasgow.

Oh yes - I forgot the bathrooms - I felt like I had to wash up AFTER washing up. By curving the wrong way I meant that the retail and food service should be on the outside of the curve, not on the inside. The gates are numbered so as long as you can see two gates you know which way you need to go, but the retail/food should be visible from everywhere. That is Retail 101. When the original structure was built that curve was put in so arriving passengers could see all of the ticket agents so they would know where to go. However, when things like car rental, retail, and food service were added to the services available at airports the old architecture didn't work anymore. I fully understand that the curvature was from the existing building - which is why I said it should be scrapped to the ground and redone.

Anyhow, like I said - it's your airport and if it fits your local standards then more power to you. Here in Jax we just remodeled our airport and it is a symbol of local civic pride and although it small by international airport standards, it is a first class facility in every aspect (except it doesn't yet have a consolidated rental car facility).

Having used WRWA for the first time since the remodel they just need to tear this whole place to the ground and start over. It is a state-wide embarrassment. There is little wonder people drive to DFW.

I've worked with people from all over the country, large and small cities. The majority love the fact they can come and go from WRWA with very little to no hassle. Hear very little complaints.

You want to live somewhere with a crappy airport? Move to KC