Several years ago maybe. In 2014, a couple of low-paid intern architects could put these images out in 10 days.

Looks promising.

Towers in Lower Bricktown: Reality or Fantasy? | News OK (http://newsok.com/towers-in-lower-bricktown-reality-or-fantasy/article/3947916)

I'm glad to learn there's something behind this rumor.

So this thing has a pulse?

*fingers crossed*

OKCTalk with another story break, weeks in advance.

I still would caution against buying into the hype. Hope it happens, but I'm told there is more to this story.

I still would caution against buying into the hype. Hope it happens, but I'm told there is more to this story.

Can you elaborate?

No, sorry, I really can't. Just a confidential conversation with someone who I really trust. I don't want to go bag on the developers, because I don't know them. Like I've said, nobody would like for this to happen more than me.

I still don't like this area being called Bricktown. This wedge between I-40, the boulevard, and the railroad should be called The North40.

Developer eyeing hotel and apartment towers

Building hopes in Bricktown: Developer eyeing hotel and apartment towers

By: Molly M. Fleming March 27, 2014 0



Inside Properties Inc. is under contract to purchase the property at 101 SE Fourth St., with potential plans to build three towers on the site. The tower on the west would be a hotel, with two apartment buildings on the east. (Rendering by Humphreys & Partners Architects LP)
Inside Properties Inc. is under contract to purchase the property at 101 SE Fourth St., with potential plans to build three towers on the site. The tower on the west would be a hotel, with two apartment buildings on the east. (Rendering by Humphreys & Partners Architects LP)
OKLAHOMA CITY – A Tucson, Ariz., company is considering developing a high-rise hotel and two residential towers on the Mid-States Lumber property at 101 SE Fourth St. Inside Properties has had the 5.9-acre site under contract since late December. The property is just south of Lower Bricktown near the Harkins Bricktown 16 Theatre.

Inside Properties’ Lou Christiansen told The Journal Record the company is interested in building a hotel and apartments, with the time frame to be decided once the sale closes. He said if the company continues with the apartment plan, retail space will be built on the first floor of the buildings. The proposal is depicted in a rendering produced by Dallas-based Humphreys and Partners Architects.

“At the same time, if we could find some users, that concept could be easily changed,” he said.

Christiansen said the company would be interested in selling one or two of the spaces on the site if another company or developer wants to build a tower.

“There’s room for three midsize high-rise towers,” he said. “If there’s a business that wants to build an office, it’s a pretty prime spot.”

He said there are no plans for a speculative office tower.

“We would rather sell one or two of the sites to a user or a tenant,” he said. “We could always (build it for them), but I’d think they’d want to step up and do it. We’re interested in tenants and users for that site.”

Christiansen and his partners own apartments in Oklahoma City and first entered the market in the early 1990s. Christiansen declined to disclose terms of the sale.

According to Oklahoma County records, the land is owned by the Bill and Patti Smith Family LP and has a market value of $1.2 million. Bill Smith, who started Mid-States Lumber Co. in 1986, died in 2012.

Hotel Broker One Chief Operating Officer Peter Holmes said the hotel, if it’s built, would enter a populated market.

“When the new convention center comes on-line, there’s going to be significantly more demand (for hotels),” he said. “Right now, we seem to be at a very good point in terms of number of rooms and number of hotels in Oklahoma City. With what’s coming on-line, we’re already close to a tipping point of being overbuilt.”

He said the hotel would be C or C-plus level in proximity to downtown demand generators. Nevertheless, he still expressed concerns about the market.

“It’s a fragile ecosystem,” he said.

For better or worse, people routinely trade on the name Bricktown who have no connection whatsoever to the district simply because it is such a recognizable brand. Even Aloft calls itself Aloft Bricktown rather than Aloft Deep Deuce, despite being in a great (and hot) neighborhood. You and I (and most of the posters here) appreciate Deep Deuce for what it is, but city-wide and regionally it has no brand recognition. Creating a "district" out of thin air would be even more challenging. It's why Lower Bricktown tried to position itself as "not Bricktown" yet still used the name...Bricktown.

I still don't like this area being called Bricktown. This wedge between I-40, the boulevard, and the railroad should be called The North40.

I have a hard time seeing North40 catching on. Pretty much the entire area between the Boulevard and the river has been known as Core-to-Shore for so long I don't really see that changing.

I'm fine with that area being referred to as Bricktown or Core to Shore. We don't need a district name for every single development. Lol.

I still don't like this area being called Bricktown. This wedge between I-40, the boulevard, and the railroad should be called The North40.

Step away from the keyboard or tablet. Please. The last thing OK needs is anything being marketed as:

Live and work in The North 40 .. conveniently located just south of downtown and lower Bricktown.

Step away from the keyboard or tablet. Please. The last thing OK needs is anything being marketed as:

Live and work in The North 40 .. conveniently located just south of downtown and lower Bricktown.

How is it any different from the name Broadway 10 for the new chophouse?! I dig the North40 name

I agree. North40 seems pretty kewl.

Every neighborhood needs a name. What is the point in creating a 'sense of place' if you can't name it?

Every neighborhood needs a name. What is the point in creating a 'sense of place' if you can't name it?

North 40 is too manufactured. I don't like it.

How is it any different from the name Broadway 10 for the new chophouse?! I dig the North40 name

I dig it too. Better than core to shore.

North 40 is too manufactured. I don't like it.

I follow a pretty simple rule for naming things. In my opinion names should reflect one of the following

1) Location
2) Natural/Significant features
3) Origin
4) Use

Good neighborhoods should be 1/4 mile from edge to center with a corridor of some type separating them from other neighborhoods. Likewise, good neighborhoods should not be bisected by corridors unless that corridor serves as the unifying object which the neighborhood is based on (i.e. Automobile Alley)

If you don't like the North40 there are other names as well including Lumberyard, Cotton Seed, and Santa Fe East. Since this area isn't large enough for two neighborhoods one name should cover the whole area.

It should be named something reflective of OKC 'taking it back'.

I dig it too. Better than core to shore.

Yeah...it'd be like Log Library directions..."yeah, I live in C2S, SE corner of sub quadrant NW of quadrant NE. My building has no name."

Good job OKCTALK for digging this up, and kudos to Molly Fleming and the Journal Record for breaking this story!

Where does the "North" part of the North40 come from? There may be an obvious explanation but so far I am missing it.

North of I-40

Good job OKCTALK for digging this up, and kudos to Molly Fleming and the Journal Record for breaking this story!

This is far from a "rumor" as stated by Steve L. We are looking at a significant development either way. They look to be moving with the 2 Mid-Rise Res. Towers as soon as the BLVD is in.

Pete & OKCTalk have been with this one for awhile now.

Ahh.

Isn't like half the country north of I-40? I'm not really a fan of that idea.

How about NLB (Not Lower Bricktown) or NIFES (North of I-40(Fourty), East of Shields)?

Tall Cotton?

... Central Park East / Central Park West.

I follow a pretty simple rule for naming things. In my opinion names should reflect one of the following

1) Location
2) Natural/Significant features
3) Origin
4) Use

Good neighborhoods should be 1/4 mile from edge to center with a corridor of some type separating them from other neighborhoods. Likewise, good neighborhoods should not be bisected by corridors unless that corridor serves as the unifying object which the neighborhood is based on (i.e. Automobile Alley)

If you don't like the North40 there are other names as well including Lumberyard, Cotton Seed, and Santa Fe East. Since this area isn't large enough for two neighborhoods one name should cover the whole area.

.. Central Park East / Central Park West ?????

S.O.B.

(South Of the Boulevard)

S.O.B.

(South Of the Boulevard)

Like.

Winner.

And if it were on the other side of the boulevard it could be NOOB (North of OKC Boulevard).

SoSH

South of Stuccoville Hell

SOBR....South of BRicktown

SoSH

South of Stuccoville Hell

Like.

How about SoMS. South of Memorial South.

For those who aren't Journal subscribers.


Inside Properties’ Lou Christiansen told The Journal Record the company is interested in building a hotel and apartments, with the time frame to be decided once the sale closes. He said if the company continues with the apartment plan, retail space will be built on the first floor of the buildings. The proposal is depicted in a rendering produced by Dallas-based Humphreys and Partners Architects.

He said there are no plans for a speculative office tower.

S.O.B.

(South Of the Boulevard)

Not SoBo?

We're brainstorming for the company (if this development is real) so let's come up with something good...like The Lumber Yard...lol.

I like North40. It's urban and gritty in an Okie way.

So...does the developer have a track record of similar development? Or actually ANY development? The Journal Record didn't seem to ask that question. I mean, this would be a BIG project, bigger than even many of the most-seasoned OKC developers could take on.

I have searched online to find any previous successful developments that he might be associated with but can't find anything. I can't find a news item (other than JR article), web article or website (I did find a suburban housing development in the AZ desert that he might be connected to) anything at all, but just couldn't find anything. I know we have some great archivists on here, maybe someone here can find something. Surely he has some major successes under his belt if he intends to take on something so ambitious.

This is far from a "rumor" as stated by Steve L. We are looking at a significant development either way. They look to be moving with the 2 Mid-Rise Res. Towers as soon as the BLVD is in.

Pete & OKCTalk have been with this one for awhile now.

I don't think you read the same article as the rest of us.

Go do a Google search for "[developer name] + developer" or "[developer name] + development" and/or include "Oklahoma" or "Oklahoma City" for any of the people who are in the development game downtown and you will return dozens of hits for articles, their company websites, LinkedIn profiles, etc.. Here are examples: Gary Brooks (https://www.google.com/search?q=gary+brooks+developer+oklahoma&oq=gary+brooks+developer+oklahoma&aqs=chrome..69i57.8756j0j8&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8), Nick Preftakes (https://www.google.com/search?q=gary+brooks+developer+oklahoma&oq=gary+brooks+developer+oklahoma&aqs=chrome..69i57.8756j0j8&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8#q=nick+preftakes+developer+oklahoma), Richard McKown (https://www.google.com/search?q=gary+brooks+developer+oklahoma&oq=gary+brooks+developer+oklahoma&aqs=chrome..69i57.8756j0j8&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8#q=richard+mckown+developer+oklahoma), Richard Tanenbaum (https://www.google.com/search?q=richard+tennenbaum+developer+oklahoma&oq=richard+tennenbaum+developer+oklahoma&aqs=chrome..69i57.14087j0j8&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8#q=richard+tanenbaum+developer+oklahoma), Randy Hogan (https://www.google.com/#q=randy+hogan+developer+oklahoma), Jim Thompson (https://www.google.com/search?q=jim+thompson+developer+oklahoma&oq=jim+thompson+developer+oklahoma&aqs=chrome..69i57.11944j0j8&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8), Marsh Pitman (https://www.google.com/search?q=marsh+pitman+developer+oklahoma&oq=marsh+pitman+developer+oklahoma&aqs=chrome..69i57.6431j0j8&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8), Ron Bradshaw (https://www.google.com/search?q=marsh+pitman+developer+oklahoma&oq=marsh+pitman+developer+oklahoma&aqs=chrome..69i57.6431j0j8&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8#q=ron+bradshaw+developer+oklahoma). John Gilbert (https://www.google.com/#q=john+gilbert+developer+houston) (Bomasada/Metropolitan) comes up heavy whether you include OKC or Houston in the search. Even guys who have yet to get a whole lot (or anything) on the ground have quite a bit of coverage in the news media or elsewhere; Chris Johnson (https://www.google.com/search?q=marsh+pitman+developer+oklahoma&oq=marsh+pitman+developer+oklahoma&aqs=chrome..69i57.6431j0j8&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8#q=chris+johnson+developer+oklahoma), Gary Cotton (https://www.google.com/search?q=marsh+pitman+developer+oklahoma&oq=marsh+pitman+developer+oklahoma&aqs=chrome..69i57.6431j0j8&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8#q=gary+cotton+developer+oklahoma)...

...but when you search "Lou Christiansen developer" and add "Tucson (https://www.google.com/#q=lou+christiansen+developer+tucson)" or "Oklahoma (https://www.google.com/#q=lou+christiansen+developer+oklahoma)" you get not much of anything except for Journal Record or NewsOK coverage of this purported project, all in the past couple of days. There is a link to a PDF of a statement of qualifications for a Texas construction firm that lists "Lou Christiansen, Jr., Western Land Investments, Tucson AZ" as a "satisfied customer." When I search "Western Land Investments, Tucson, AZ" I get a link to a company that builds homes in a desert subdivision (http://www.westernland.com/), but no mention of Lou Christiansen. What gives? Does Tucson media not cover developers or projects in their hometown to the extent that OKC does? And what are the projects he is involved with in OKC, which have been alluded to (but not named) in the coverage? You would think someone capable of building the type of development in the rendering would have accumulated a lot of coverage over the years.

This thing just seems like a flip or a fishing expedition to me, but again, I hope I am wrong.

.. Central Park East / Central Park West ?????

The only problem with that is the Santa Fe viaduct creates a transportation corridor that separates this area from Central Park. At best Central Park East would be the area from the boulevard south to I-40 and from Robinson to the railroad.

I use to live in Tucson and know first hand they do not want development in their city. In fact, when I was there people hated the idea of building a freeway in the city even though you had to drive city streets everywhere. I remember seeing cars with bumper stickers that said "Welcome to Arizona... Now go home".

Go do a Google search for "[developer name] + developer" or "[developer name] + development" and/or include "Oklahoma" or "Oklahoma City" for any of the people who are in the development game downtown and you will return dozens of hits for articles, their company websites, LinkedIn profiles, etc.. Here are examples: Gary Brooks (https://www.google.com/search?q=gary+brooks+developer+oklahoma&oq=gary+brooks+developer+oklahoma&aqs=chrome..69i57.8756j0j8&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8), Nick Preftakes (https://www.google.com/search?q=gary+brooks+developer+oklahoma&oq=gary+brooks+developer+oklahoma&aqs=chrome..69i57.8756j0j8&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8#q=nick+preftakes+developer+oklahoma), Richard McKown (https://www.google.com/search?q=gary+brooks+developer+oklahoma&oq=gary+brooks+developer+oklahoma&aqs=chrome..69i57.8756j0j8&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8#q=richard+mckown+developer+oklahoma), Richard Tanenbaum (https://www.google.com/search?q=richard+tennenbaum+developer+oklahoma&oq=richard+tennenbaum+developer+oklahoma&aqs=chrome..69i57.14087j0j8&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8#q=richard+tanenbaum+developer+oklahoma), Randy Hogan (https://www.google.com/#q=randy+hogan+developer+oklahoma), Jim Thompson (https://www.google.com/search?q=jim+thompson+developer+oklahoma&oq=jim+thompson+developer+oklahoma&aqs=chrome..69i57.11944j0j8&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8), Marsh Pitman (https://www.google.com/search?q=marsh+pitman+developer+oklahoma&oq=marsh+pitman+developer+oklahoma&aqs=chrome..69i57.6431j0j8&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8), Ron Bradshaw (https://www.google.com/search?q=marsh+pitman+developer+oklahoma&oq=marsh+pitman+developer+oklahoma&aqs=chrome..69i57.6431j0j8&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8#q=ron+bradshaw+developer+oklahoma). John Gilbert (https://www.google.com/#q=john+gilbert+developer+houston) (Bomasada/Metropolitan) comes up heavy whether you include OKC or Houston in the search. Even guys who have yet to get a whole lot (or anything) on the ground have quite a bit of coverage in the news media or elsewhere; Chris Johnson (https://www.google.com/search?q=marsh+pitman+developer+oklahoma&oq=marsh+pitman+developer+oklahoma&aqs=chrome..69i57.6431j0j8&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8#q=chris+johnson+developer+oklahoma), Gary Cotton (https://www.google.com/search?q=marsh+pitman+developer+oklahoma&oq=marsh+pitman+developer+oklahoma&aqs=chrome..69i57.6431j0j8&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8#q=gary+cotton+developer+oklahoma)...

...but when you search "Lou Christiansen developer" and add "Tucson (https://www.google.com/#q=lou+christiansen+developer+tucson)" or "Oklahoma (https://www.google.com/#q=lou+christiansen+developer+oklahoma)" you get not much of anything except for Journal Record or NewsOK coverage of this purported project, all in the past couple of days. There is a link to a PDF of a statement of qualifications for a Texas construction firm that lists "Lou Christiansen, Jr., Western Land Investments, Tucson AZ" as a "satisfied customer." When I search "Western Land Investments, Tucson, AZ" I get a link to a company that builds homes in a desert subdivision (http://www.westernland.com/), but no mention of Lou Christiansen. What gives? Does Tucson media not cover developers or projects in their hometown to the extent that OKC does? And what are the projects he is involved with in OKC, which have been alluded to (but not named) in the coverage? You would think someone capable of building the type of development in the rendering would have accumulated a lot of coverage over the years.

This thing just seems like a flip or a fishing expedition to me, but again, I hope I am wrong.

I think most here have gathered that this isn't being floated by an established developer, not one who has ever been part of a project of this magnitude at least.

Really? Because here are the bulk of the posts on this page besides the ones debating name options. Josh is the only poster who seems to question the legitimacy of the development.


I'm glad to learn there's something behind this rumor.


So this thing has a pulse?

*fingers crossed*


OKCTalk with another story break, weeks in advance.


Good job OKCTALK for digging this up, and kudos to Molly Fleming and the Journal Record for breaking this story!


This is far from a "rumor" as stated by Steve L. We are looking at a significant development either way. They look to be moving with the 2 Mid-Rise Res. Towers as soon as the BLVD is in.

Pete & OKCTalk have been with this one for awhile now.

Here is what I found but it certainly doesn't give much information.

Lou Christensen | Western Land Investments , Inc. | ZoomInfo.com (http://www.zoominfo.com/p/Lou-Christensen/1897448627)

Western Land - Tucson Arizona Land, Property and Ranches for Sale (http://www.westernland.com/)

This:

http://www.manta.com/c/mtcnpsr/architectural-elements-llc

lists him as the owner of this company:

http://www.arcelements.com/

Really? Because here are the bulk of the posts on this page besides the ones debating name options. Josh is the only poster who seems to question the legitimacy of the development.


There has been plenty of healthy skepticism as well:



I had pretty low confidence in this deal being real, but it was nice to see what's possible for that site someday.


It's just a few renderings. Really, it only would take me a week or two to put this together.


At least we only had our hopes up for one day instead of multiple years before being disappointed. I can live with one day of exciting daydreaming followed by a letdown.


Since the property has not sold as of yet, I suspect this is a conceptual plan by the potential developers to help drum up financing and/or investors.


It might be just a wild concept but I suspect it is tied to the new owners who are trying to generate interest in a potential development.


I've said all the way along this is probably just a conceptual plan.


Several years ago maybe. In 2014, a couple of low-paid intern architects could put these images out in 10 days.

Yeah Pete, I agree, but Pickles seemed to be indicating the opinion was overwhelmingly skeptical, and I was pointing out that on the very page we were posting on there were virtually zero posts offering doubts and many, many Kool-Aid drinkers. I just hate to see folks get whipped into a frenzy over an apparently unlikely project, and then months later see it held ups as "yet another example of Bricktown's failures" or "why can't OKC ever deliver on cool projects?"

I'll also point out that Cuatro was taken to task after making the observations you quote regarding how easy it would be for a firm to churn those out on a whim.

Yeah, sorry Pete, just read through past several pages again and it is pretty exclusively Kool-Aid material. Except for good ole Debbie Downer, yours truly. I'm just afraid folks are setting themselves up for massive disappointment on this one.

^

I think what you are seeing is people having fun with the idea of what could be. Nothing wrong with that, and some will be disappointed no matter what happens. We still have people complain about Devon Tower being downsized, for goodness sake.

I know enough people personally that post here to know that they are generally a well-grounded group, with some hyperbole excepted.

That happens to the best of us... I remember Steve posting something to the effect of, "What if every downtown dream came true?" when teasing about what turned out to be Project 180. And now about something that "will make Dallas and Kansas City jealous".


When it comes down to it, we are all development fanboys otherwise we wouldn't be here. While many get carried away, that's all part of it and I think most get that.

I agree with all of that, and surely have my fanboy moments. Again, I hope I'm dead wrong on this deal; it would be incredible for the neighborhood where I make my living. But I don't think I am.

Development fanboys unite!

Even though I have my doubts about this project, OKC is due for a development like this. If it does come to fruition, we are looking at 3-4 years before this would be completed. And I would suspect it would be done in phases, with the first phase for the smaller towers. Every project that comes up is not a done deal until dirt starts turning, so we just have to wait and see.

OK, so apparently the project is fantasy. A spec portfolio-building exercise.

Urbanized, after this quote I asked for clarification and got no response. Now after reading a news article quoting the the person who has the property under contract as saying he wants to build a hotel and residential properties you call me a Kool-aid drinker for saying the following:


I'm glad to learn there's something behind this rumor.

Which quote is more accurate? Neither I, nor most of the other posters ever said this project is a done deal, just that there was something (like a news article with quotes from a real person) behind this rumor. Since you refuse to disclose any reason behind your Debbie Downer negativism I'll choose to go with what's been reported.

For the record, since the property is under contract and there is due diligence being done and a reputable architectural firm has produced renderings for the property and a real person has stated that he wants to develop the property, I'll chose to remain optimistic that there is "something behind this rumor". Although, I doubt that what we have seen will be what we wind up with, If the sale is completed as proposed there will be some sort of development on this site. No one is going to spend millions on this land and go to the trouble to commission renderings and then let this site be a "spec portfolio-building exercise".

Signed, a Development Fanboy

"Refuse to disclose any reason" = refuse to violate confidences, even if doing so won't be appreciated by anonymous posters demanding answers on a message board. Apparently some people will never understand this very basic tenet of business and personal relationships.

If you'll take the time to review my posts on this board you will find that I am hardly a Debbie Downer in general, and in fact I am closer to being one of the "fanboys" people allude to. I have actually been a downtown OKC development fanboy (even in a professional capacity) for many years before posting here, or before this board existed. I do, however, like to temper my fanboyism with a healthy dose of reality when needed.

I just happen to have been told in this instance by persons who I trust that there appears to not be much substance to this particular proposal. When I first inquired there was speculation that it might merely be an exercise, now the speculation runs that it might be something entirely different, but that doesn't mean it's any closer to being a reality. Believe me or don't.

Do I think this location will be developed eventually? Of course. But it doesn't appear that the development will be done by this individual, and he even says as much in the interview, if you read between the lines.

By the way, you didn't quote the part where I said "don't shoot the messenger," which as it turns out was an especially prescient sentiment.