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10:17
Comment From Pat
Good Morning Steve, Probably been asked, but is there any credence to the conceptual drawings for lumber yard site over by the co-op. Thanks

10:18
Steve Lackmeyer: I seriously doubt they are any more real than the renderings posted at the same website for a tower designed by a local firm for I-44 and Broadway Extension. Sometimes these renderings are done and posted to attract investor, developer interest. Sometimes they reflect a job that went south.

The rendering for that I-44 / Broadway building came from a little firm in Edmond.

The Lumber Yard renderings came from a huge firm in Dallas with a ton of experience in high-rise residential, and for a specific property under contract to an out-of-state purchaser with deep pockets.

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...well, I guess if he can't confirm it, then there is ( 0 ) validity to it? funny.

Just heard from another trusted source that this property is most definitely under contract to an out-of-state purchaser who contracted with the Dallas architects to come up with a concept.

Doesn't mean this will get built as depicted, but this all isn't just rumor. The site is under contract to a group that has a lot of resources and wants to build residential with some retail along the boulevard.

The transaction hasn't closed but they have come to terms and the potential buyers are in the process of performing due diligence.

The conceptual drawing here truly is world class, something the drawing for Rainey Williams' tower isn't. Even if this gets scaled back from the conceptual drawing it will still be a huge game changer.

You guys act like okc is the only place that does mid rise stick and frame. I have spent a lot of time in Denver and have seen two massive residential projects go up stick and frame... FYI

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^

And in order to achieve something big, you have to dream big.

Even if something falls short, we need to be reaching out further.

We've made thousands of incremental steps -- which are very, very important -- but very few big leaps in terms of individual projects. Devon is the only one that comes to mind, and we need more truly world-class projects (not just tall ones).

Just heard from another trusted source that this property is most definitely under contract to an out-of-state purchaser who contracted with the Dallas architects to come up with a concept.

Doesn't mean this will get built as depicted, but this all isn't just rumor. The site is under contract to a group that has a lot of resources and wants to build residential with some retail along the boulevard.

The transaction hasn't closed but they have come to terms and the potential buyers are in the process of performing due diligence.

I'm glad it is an out-of-state group. This gives it more chance of actually happening. If they are a group that has many properties that are of "equal quality & scope", then this certainly may happen. And, this may be more reason to believe it is true, since the "rumors" are not in the same circles for others to verify.

You guys act like okc is the only place that does mid rise stick and frame. I have spent a lot of time in Denver and have seen two massive residential projects go up stick and frame... FYI

Forgive my ignorance, but what are you referring to?

^

And in order to achieve something big, you have to dream big.

Even if something falls short, we need to be reaching out further.

We've made thousands of incremental steps -- which are very, very important -- but very few big leaps in terms of individual projects. Devon is the only one that comes to mind, and we need more truly world-class projects (not just tall ones).

Agree. Too often in this city's history, the bare minimum is all that has been proposed and it gets scaled down to absolute crap. When it comes to developments like this the rule is almost always over-promise, under-deliver. With that in mind, propose something that blows people away and then the scaled back version will still be a great development.

Where there is smoke, there is fire.

-A company called OKC midrise apartments LLC pops up a year ago
-This same company is under contract negotiations to purchase this parcel of land
-A rendering shows up from a 100% credible architectural company with confirmed ties to the aforementioned OKC midrise company for this EXACT parcel of land.

They forgot to inform Steve Lackmeyer, so now none of it is true and OKCtalk is full of a bunch of nonsense rumors. Give me a break.

Forgive my ignorance, but what are you referring to?

The various complaints and jabs at mid rise wood framed construction. That is pretty normal even it cities with really good downtowns like Denver.

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Where there is smoke can also be mirrors, though.

And also this isn't a mid-rise, as I's say this can pretty safely be classified as a high-rise. Now idk if that distinction makes a difference, or if the LLC name was meant to poke fun at our "world class" developments, or what. It just sticks out in my head.

The various complaints and jabs at mid rise wood framed construction. That is pretty normal even it cities with really good downtowns like Denver.

I thought that's what you meant, but hadn't noticed any comments regarding wood framed construction in this thread. Sorry if I missed it; just wanted to be sure I understood you.

The various complaints and jabs at mid rise wood framed construction. That is pretty normal even it cities with really good downtowns like Denver.

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Denver isn't in tornado alley.

Where there is smoke can also be mirrors, though.

And also this isn't a mid-rise, as I's say this can pretty safely be classified as a high-rise. Now idk if that distinction makes a difference, or if the LLC name was meant to poke fun at our "world class" developments, or what. It just sticks out in my head.

I'm no rule maker, but I would classify this as a high-rise as well.

Where there is smoke, there is fire.

-A company called OKC midrise apartments LLC pops up a year ago
-This same company is under contract negotiations to purchase this parcel of land
-A rendering shows up from a 100% credible architectural company with confirmed ties to the aforementioned OKC midrise company for this EXACT parcel of land.

They forgot to inform Steve Lackmeyer, so now none of it is true and OKCtalk is full of a bunch of nonsense rumors. Give me a break.

When a group "offers", this IS an action item w/ so many possibilities. This is NOT just an exercise. Outside the state of Oklahoma, things move quickly. There are two things needed for this to happen, 100% funding & the willingness to see it through.

Steve mentioned the I-44 building in regards to what may or may not happen at the lumber yard. For those not around back then this is what he was referring to.

http://www.okctalk.com/general-civic-issues/19626-new-highrise-i-44-broaday-ext.html

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/misc/44broadway2.jpg

I don't think these renderings will ever be built exactly to the tee. More than likely its just to garner interest from a lot of different parties. Financing, construction bids, and the final end users.

But there is obviously something going on with this land, and its starting to unveil itself one piece at a time and quickly.

One good thing about downtown property prices starting to go up dramatically: If a property is purchased for millions 1) it's unlikely someone will just sit on it; and 2) when it is developed, density is required to justify the investment.

Also notice a trend with all of the sites formerly under consideration for the CC...

nm

Steve mentioned the I-44 building in regards to what may or may not happen at the lumber yard. For those not around back then this is what he was referring to.

http://www.okctalk.com/general-civic-issues/19626-new-highrise-i-44-broaday-ext.html

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/misc/44broadway2.jpg

jtf, thanks.

^

That Broadway / I-44 rendering was posted in 2009, by the way.

One good thing about downtown property prices starting to go up dramatically: If a property is purchased for millions 1) it's unlikely someone will just sit on it; and 2) when it is developed, density is required to justify the investment.

Pete, and it gets to a point where only those who have "deep pockets" get to play. ...thus, no sticker shock on a 43 story building.

Where there is smoke can also be mirrors, though.

And also this isn't a mid-rise, as I's say this can pretty safely be classified as a high-rise. Now idk if that distinction makes a difference, or if the LLC name was meant to poke fun at our "world class" developments, or what. It just sticks out in my head.

There's also two mid rise buildings in the conceptual renderings. Maybe the high rise element was added after the LLC was formed and named. I imagine it's also the more tentative element of the plans, but I'm just guessing.

What's interesting is, based on the specs, 60 of the units would be in those mid rise buildings. They look to be about 15 stories, which would mean about 2 unites per floor. Feel free to check my math there, but it seems like those would be some pretty fat units.

Also 6000 square feet seems like a low number for the retail space. There's a lot of boulevard frontage that could probably double that amount, unless they are thinking of having pretty good sized lobbies. Of course, this is all from looking at a drawing, so I could easily be way off.

6,000 sq feet of retail space isn't much at all.

There's also two mid rise buildings in the conceptual renderings. Maybe the high rise element was added after the LLC was formed and named. I imagine it's also the more tentative element of the plans, but I'm just guessing.

What's interesting is, based on the specs, 60 of the units would be in those mid rise buildings. They look to be about 15 stories, which would mean about 2 unites per floor. Feel free to check my math there, but it seems like those would be some pretty fat units.

Also 6000 square feet seems like a low number for the retail space. There's a lot of boulevard frontage that could probably double that amount, unless they are thinking of having pretty good sized lobbies. Of course, this is all from looking at a drawing, so I could easily be way off.

Many more than 60 units would be in the midrises. 60 units would be non tower. Ie not in any of the 3 towers. Or out another way in the podium buildings

Many more than 60 units would be in the midrises. 60 units would be non tower. Ie not in any of the 3 towers. Or out another way in the podium buildings

Possibly, but it says "43 Story Tower" and 516 "Tower Units". It would weird to be referencing the mid rises as towers, imo. Not that any of it is more than ideas at this point. I've certainly been in some condo buildings like that that had two units a floor (and even one on some floors). It would certainly be cool to see that in OKC.

6,000 sq feet of retail space isn't much at all.

I doubt the retail would face the boulevard anyhow because through this area there won't be much of it at grade which will impact any chance of walkability along the boulevard. It crosses the canal and then has to go under the railroad tracks and EKG. I think the retail would be on the street between the towers.

I just looked, and it has been changed to Oklahoma. A couple of days ago it said Canada, which means someone actively changed the page recently.Great news!

Denver isn't in tornado alley.

...yes it is, it's on the fringe. They have tornados there.


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Great news!

Actually depending on how you search, one page still says Canada, and one Oklahoma.

Canada - Bricktown - Humphreys & Partners Architects. L.P. - Humphreys & Partners Architects. L.P. (http://www.humphreys.com/portfolio/bricktown/)
OKC - Bricktown - Humphreys & Partners Architects. L.P. - Humphreys & Partners Architects. L.P. (http://www.humphreys.com/portfolio/bricktown-2/)

Actually depending on how you search, one page still says Canada, and one Oklahoma.

Canada - Bricktown - Humphreys & Partners Architects. L.P. - Humphreys & Partners Architects. L.P. (http://www.humphreys.com/portfolio/bricktown/)
OKC - Bricktown - Humphreys & Partners Architects. L.P. - Humphreys & Partners Architects. L.P. (http://www.humphreys.com/portfolio/bricktown-2/)Oh, I thought they updated that one to. :/

Agree. Too often in this city's history, the bare minimum is all that has been proposed and it gets scaled down to absolute crap. When it comes to developments like this the rule is almost always over-promise, under-deliver. With that in mind, propose something that blows people away and then the scaled back version will still be a great development.

In 1932, OKC had the 2 tallest skyscrapers west of the Mississippi.....

I thought First National was the fourth tallest building west of the Mississippi when it was built.

I thought First National was the fourth tallest building west of the Mississippi when it was built.

This is correct based on everything I've read...still impressive though


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There's also two mid rise buildings in the conceptual renderings. Maybe the high rise element was added after the LLC was formed and named. I imagine it's also the more tentative element of the plans, but I'm just guessing.

What's interesting is, based on the specs, 60 of the units would be in those mid rise buildings. They look to be about 15 stories, which would mean about 2 unites per floor. Feel free to check my math there, but it seems like those would be some pretty fat units.

Also 6000 square feet seems like a low number for the retail space. There's a lot of boulevard frontage that could probably double that amount, unless they are thinking of having pretty good sized lobbies. Of course, this is all from looking at a drawing, so I could easily be way off.

This is what I'm wondering. The details seem fairly advanced. 43 stories, plus two mid-rises. 516 high rise units and 60 in the base. You don't have those kinds of numbers until you've done floorplate and prelim engineering studies.

6,000 sf of retail on a 43 story high rise condo tower tells me that they've done market analysis and noticed what sells here (housing), although it will also be curious to see the condo/apartment mix. There's no way they can sell 576 condos whereas that number of apartments could easily be leased up.

Just heard from another trusted source that this property is most definitely under contract to an out-of-state purchaser who contracted with the Dallas architects to come up with a concept.

Doesn't mean this will get built as depicted, but this all isn't just rumor. The site is under contract to a group that has a lot of resources and wants to build residential with some retail along the boulevard.

The transaction hasn't closed but they have come to terms and the potential buyers are in the process of performing due diligence.

This = absolutely correct

Between this building and the Malaysian flight. We have a lot of investigating to do this weekend. What's happening here and where is that plane! I think there is a connection and as soon as we find the plane we will find out what the development entails!

Pete, thanks for the (interjection) on this one. ...you have sources too.

^

That Broadway / I-44 rendering was posted in 2009, by the way.

Wasn't there some kind of massive global economic correction taking place that year?

:p

I thought First National was the fourth tallest building west of the Mississippi when it was built.

You might be right, but OKC had it going during the depression era.

You might be right, but OKC had it going during the depression era.

You bet we did. We had one of the other "premium" resources that was in great demand at time...., Oil. The Dust Bowl ( combined w/ the 29' Market Crash) was the eventual last straw in our economy.

Funny how history can repeat itself. Oil & Gas has placed Oklahoma on a similar stage as then. Enegy producing states get a head start of the other non-producing states and this gives us a big advantage. This is our time to capatalize on this momentum. Thank you Oil & Gas !!!!!

And, when you combine Oklahoma w/ a strong economy now, with an investment group (that is looking for a safe place to invest in New Real Estate Growth Markets), you get these Outside Groups that have deep pockets and can throw up a 43 story building and not blink.

You bet we did. We had one of the other "premium" resources that was in great demand at time...., Oil. The Dust Bowl ( combined w/ the 29' Market Crash) was the eventual last straw in our economy.

Funny how history can repeat itself. Oil & Gas has placed Oklahoma on a similar stage as then. Enegy producing states get a head start of the other non-producing states and this gives us a big advantage. This is our time to capatalize on this momentum. Thank you Oil & Gas !!!!!

And, when you combine Oklahoma w/ a strong economy now, with an investment group (that is looking for a safe place to invest in New Real Estate Growth Markets), you get these Outside Groups that have deep pockets and can throw up a 43 story building and not blink.

So how do you propose we properly worship and give sacrifice to Oil & Gas?

I'm only counting 35 or so floors in the rendering?

Did you include that bottom part?

Appears to be a 4-story base structure.

So, if this development has any legs it is still a many years away from becoming a reality? If so, I chalk it up as the norm for OKC. Not to be negative but just speaking the truth. I don't have much faith in the Convention Center and Hotel, the Boulevard, Park or Light Rail ever truly happening in our life time. They all seem to be sooo far off that by the time they originally planned on doing them the cost will have increased so much more that excuses will be made as to why it can't be done.

I wish OKC could be more like other cities and just get stuff done instead of being stuck in our usual "average" mentality and excuse mode of why things can't be done. If OKC ever wants to be great, it is time they start NOW doing great things, building and designing great things, and become a destination of sorts for people to want to come here. By piling up projects that are supposed to happen in 5 to 15 years from now, it almost becomes comical. The cost of doing something in 10 years will be so much greater than it would now and that doesn't even count lost revenue and money the city would be making from people spending their money here. I've lost faith in our leadership and who is running the show now days and I have always been a big Mick fan but this goes beyond him. OKC is just like the our state motto- OK but nothing great and despite how much I dream of it being great, reality is that it just isn't going to happen with the decisions being made by those in charge.

soondoc, are you OKVision4u's more negative brother? You two seem to have a problem with delayed gratification.

Is this the exact same post as another thread? Can Pete delete unnecessary posts like this?

Is this the exact same post as another thread? Can Pete delete unnecessary posts like this?

Yeah, he did that in 3 or 4 threads. Copy and paste.

Yeah, he did that in 3 or 4 threads. Copy and paste.

Six: Stage Center tower, central park, this one, DT airpark, Convention Center and Project 180. Of course, give him a half day and see what else jumps to the top.

I guess I can't outsmart you guys, way to clever in your investigative skills. As I stated in another thread, it was covering a few projects and to open up discussion on them. Perhaps it can get the ball rolling or pressure the guys in charge and let them know what we want. That's the purpose of the thread, you guys are rough crowd I tell ya!

I guess I can't outsmart you guys, way to clever in your investigative skills. As I stated in another thread, it was covering a few projects and to open up discussion on them. Perhaps it can get the ball rolling or pressure the guys in charge and let them know what we want. That's the purpose of the thread, you guys are rough crowd I tell ya!

Oh Edgar, are you back in another life form ?

Soondoc, you are just like the rest of us..... very little influence on the stakeholders.

I deleted all the other duplicates and left the one here.

And soondoc, Central Park, the Convention Center and the Boulevard will all be complete in the next five years or so.

Big projects take time, and is far from unique to OKC.

FYI: As most of you know, it's VERY expensive to have plans drawn up like this, especially from a reputable Dallas firm.
Whoever is behind this has got to have big money to spend/invest.

FYI: As most of you know, it's VERY expensive to have plans drawn up like this, especially from a reputable Dallas firm.
Whoever is behind this has got to have big money to spend/invest.

I agree they put a lot of time in placing these structures. Most projects like the one designed for Broadway was not placed on a site. They have this placed on a site with renderings that took weeks or months to do. They even have Kevin Durant on the side of the building with smaller Thuder banners on the far east building. They really have a lot invested in these designs for someone. This design has legs. Not sure how strong these legs are but its for a legit proposal. Whether it pans out is another story, but someone is investing a lot of money soon.

...

I agree they put a lot of time in placing these structures. Most projects like the one designed for Broadway was not placed on a site. They have this placed on a site with renderings that took weeks or months to do. They even have Kevin Durant on the side of the building with smaller Thuder banners on the far east building. They really have a lot invested in these designs for someone. This design has legs. Not sure how strong these legs are but its for a legit proposal. Whether it pans out is another story, but someone is investing a lot of money soon.

Several years ago maybe. In 2014, a couple of low-paid intern architects could put these images out in 10 days.

Building hopes in Bricktown: Developer eyeing hotel and apartment towers | The Journal Record (http://journalrecord.com/2014/03/27/building-hopes-in-bricktown-developer-eyeing-hotel-and-apartment-towers-real-estate/)