View Full Version : Poor Persons and Casinos
Dubya61 02-25-2014, 02:49 PM Dubya61...I know I am getting older, but where exactly did you snatch those last two quotes in your post? I don't see them on this Thread anywhere...and I do have my glasses on today.
They're quotes from the SSA info web page.
Dennis Heaton 02-25-2014, 03:45 PM Dubya61...Thank You.
rlewis 02-25-2014, 05:18 PM This bill is absolute overkill. The state already requires casinos to block the usage of the debit cards used to issue these types of benefits.
Servicetech571 02-25-2014, 05:23 PM End cash assistance altogether. Assistance should be medical/food/housing/utilities and that's it. Limit what can be bought on food stamps. If you want something that takes MONEY to buy, get a JOB and pay for it !!
Servicetech571 02-25-2014, 05:25 PM What gets me is people who are too "disabled" to work, yet spend all day playing at the casino.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/social-security-disability-insurance-needs-major-reform/2013/09/21/6efb945c-222f-11e3-a358-1144dee636dd_story.html
Prunepicker 02-25-2014, 08:00 PM Why should we worry about the stupidity of those who don't have the
ability to know sense from nonsense?
RadicalModerate 02-25-2014, 08:21 PM Why should we worry about the stupidity of those who don't have the
ability to know sense from nonsense?
I am outraged. I haven't read such an insensitive comment in a long time.
We have to WORRY about EVERYBODY, all the time.
(geez . . . were you just hatched yesterday, fer cryin' out loud? =)
Servicetech571 02-25-2014, 08:29 PM Why should we worry about the stupidity of those who don't have the
ability to know sense from nonsense?
As long as they aren't holding thier hands out for money from the taxpayers I don't care. Its when they take money out of others paychecks to feed their gambling habit I have an issue with it.
JohnnyW 02-27-2014, 07:46 AM These people are also taxpayers you know. Anytime they buy something or pay rent or spend any money really, they are paying a tax. So they can have an equal say in this matter. What they choose to do with their money is their problem. Maybe we can try to help educate more people on finances.
Servicetech571 02-27-2014, 05:19 PM These people are also taxpayers you know. Anytime they buy something or pay rent or spend any money really, they are paying a tax. So they can have an equal say in this matter. What they choose to do with their money is their problem. Maybe we can try to help educate more people on finances.
If they are poor people they normally in the bottom 40% of earners who pay NO TAXES. Many in fact get more from the government than they pay in.
Jersey Boss 02-27-2014, 06:35 PM If they are poor people they normally in the bottom 40% of earners who pay NO TAXES. Many in fact get more from the government than they pay in.
Is that so? Tell me how the bottom 40% pay no FICA, Sales, or property tax.
Prunepicker 02-27-2014, 07:01 PM As long as they aren't holding thier hands out for money from the taxpayers
I don't care. Its when they take money out of others paychecks to feed their
gambling habit I have an issue with it.
You're correct. However, I was specifically meaning why should we take
care of those who refuse to work, aka stupid. I didn't word it correctly.
I'm totally opposed to 99%, or so, of welfare. Afterall, government funded
poverty is really the Democrat Vote Program.
Servicetech571 02-28-2014, 05:25 AM Is that so? Tell me how the bottom 40% pay no FICA, Sales, or property tax.
They mostly get "reimbersed" through the tax code and government assistance. Most poor rent thier homes, no property taxes paid. FICA is technically a "retiremnt program" that people who WORK pay. If they are on SSI/SSDI/Welfare, they don't pay this.
kelroy55 02-28-2014, 07:27 AM Poor Americans Pay Double The State, Local Tax Rates Of Top One Percent (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/21/poor-americans-state-local-taxes_n_1903993.html)
Midtowner 02-28-2014, 07:42 AM They mostly get "reimbersed" through the tax code and government assistance. Most poor rent thier homes, no property taxes paid. FICA is technically a "retiremnt program" that people who WORK pay. If they are on SSI/SSDI/Welfare, they don't pay this.
So properties used as rental properties are tax-free?
Neat!
Just the facts 02-28-2014, 07:53 AM How did humankind survive for thousands of years before bottled water?
A lot of them didn't survive. In the Middle Ages water quality was so bad that most people in Europe were only able to consume beer-style drinks or wine. The idea of fresh municipal drinking water was mostly perfected in Philadelphia in 1815 and engineers from around the world flocked there to see how they did it.
What People drank in The Middle Ages and Renaissance (http://www.sca.org.au/st_florians/university/library/articles-howtos/what-people-drank.htm)
Fairmount Water Works - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairmount_Water_Works)
kevinpate 02-28-2014, 09:10 AM ... Most poor rent thier homes, no property taxes paid.
Riiiighhhht. Because 100% of rent is pure profit to the property owner, and none of the rent that is paid goes toward the property taxes of the home or apartment being rented.
Landlords are all altruistic souls who cover property taxes solely from their other income, to keep rents low for the poor, then deliver their own funds from their vaults to the government using silk satchels laid across the hind quarters of baby unicorns.
Jersey Boss 02-28-2014, 01:29 PM They mostly get "reimbersed" through the tax code and government assistance. Most poor rent thier homes, no property taxes paid. FICA is technically a "retiremnt program" that people who WORK pay. If they are on SSI/SSDI/Welfare, they don't pay this.
So you ignore the sales taxes that are paid as well as making a sweeping generalization that those who have no taxes due are renters. So tell me this, was it not Congress who effectively made low wage earners have no income tax due because they wanted to lower the rates so dramatically on those well to do wage earners? And an even lower rate on those who live on investments rather than the rate paid by those who actually make goods.
Just the facts 02-28-2014, 02:02 PM Riiiighhhht. Because 100% of rent is pure profit to the property owner, and none of the rent that is paid goes toward the property taxes of the home or apartment being rented.
Landlords are all altruistic souls who cover property taxes solely from their other income, to keep rents low for the poor, then deliver their own funds from their vaults to the government using silk satchels laid across the hind quarters of baby unicorns.
I blame the landlords for the perpetuation of this myth. If I was renting property to someone I would give them an itemized receipt showing that they do in fact pay property tax.
Mortgage Payment: $800
Monthly Insurance: $110
Lawn Care Service: $100
Monthly Property Tax: $200
Rent: $90
Total Due: $1400
Dubya61 02-28-2014, 04:17 PM Poor Americans Pay Double The State, Local Tax Rates Of Top One Percent (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/21/poor-americans-state-local-taxes_n_1903993.html)
This article presents flawed logic. Based on that logic, they also spend a higher percentage of their income on groceries, gasoline, and toilet paper!
kelroy55 02-28-2014, 05:01 PM This article presents flawed logic. Based on that logic, they also spend a higher percentage of their income on groceries, gasoline, and toilet paper!
I'm willing to look at articles showing otherwise.
Dubya61 02-28-2014, 05:25 PM I'm willing to look at articles showing otherwise.
There will be no other articles that say otherwise because it's a valid fact. If poor person A has an annual household income of 50K and rich person B has an annual income of 500K, then their federal income taxes "should" be equal (but they won't be, sadly), so that percentage of their income as tax will be roughly equal, but when they pay 9% sales tax on the same amount of groceries (more or less), then you will see that the poor person A is paying a higher percentage of taxes than the rich person B. The facts presented in that article are correct and accurate. Even the title of the article: Poor Americans Pay Double the State, Local Tax Rates of Top One Percent is factually correct, but the taxes were designed that way! If household A and household B are composed of identical age and numbers, etc, then let's strawman they buy 6K of groceries, 8K of gasoline, and 5K or other household items and pay 9% state and local taxes on those purchases, incurring around $1,710 in state in local sales taxes. Household A has paid 3.42% of their household income in state and local sales taxes. Household B has paid .342 % of their annual household income in state and local sales taxes. Oh, the horrors and inequality!!!!! It's the way the tax was designed.
kelroy55 02-28-2014, 05:47 PM There will be no other articles that say otherwise because it's a valid fact. If poor person A has an annual household income of 50K and rich person B has an annual income of 500K, then their federal income taxes "should" be equal (but they won't be, sadly), so that percentage of their income as tax will be roughly equal, but when they pay 9% sales tax on the same amount of groceries (more or less), then you will see that the poor person A is paying a higher percentage of taxes than the rich person B. The facts presented in that article are correct and accurate. Even the title of the article: Poor Americans Pay Double the State, Local Tax Rates of Top One Percent is factually correct, but the taxes were designed that way! If household A and household B are composed of identical age and numbers, etc, then let's strawman they buy 6K of groceries, 8K of gasoline, and 5K or other household items and pay 9% state and local taxes on those purchases, incurring around $1,710 in state in local sales taxes. Household A has paid 3.42% of their household income in state and local sales taxes. Household B has paid .342 % of their annual household income in state and local sales taxes. Oh, the horrors and inequality!!!!! It's the way the tax was designed.
You say what's in the article I posted is flawed but have nothing that show's otherwise?
I say we cut to the chase and just outlaw poor people.
Prunepicker 02-28-2014, 09:15 PM I blame the landlords for the perpetuation of this myth. If I was renting
property to someone I would give them an itemized receipt showing that
they do in fact pay property tax.
Mortgage Payment: $800
Monthly Insurance: $110
Lawn Care Service: $100
Monthly Property Tax: $200
Rent: $90
Total Due: $1400
I believe it depends upon who the landlord is. For a brief time I rented a
house for my music business. I paid $500 per month. I'm not sure how
much went to the mortgage, insurance and property tax, but I paid $30
per month for the lawn care.
Servicetech571 03-01-2014, 06:59 AM I blame the landlords for the perpetuation of this myth. If I was renting property to someone I would give them an itemized receipt showing that they do in fact pay property tax.
Mortgage Payment: $800
Monthly Insurance: $110
Lawn Care Service: $100
Monthly Property Tax: $200
Rent: $90
Total Due: $1400
Don't forget the section 8 taxpayer subsidy that many poor people get. Should be plenty to cover that property tax portion of the bill and then some.
Don't forget a lot of them are on the 'secret welfare system' to begin with, therefore pay no income taxes.
Servicetech571 03-01-2014, 07:00 AM I say we cut to the chase and just outlaw poor people.
How about we kick all the able bodied people off government assistance? Welfare/SSI/SSDI reform needs to happen.
kevinpate 03-01-2014, 08:10 AM Tighten it up? Sure. Imprison or fine the hell out fo cheaters? No worries. Throw the babies out with the bath water? Not on my watch.
I know several folks, quite well, who survive because of their assistance. And I do mean survive, as in eek by, not live well.
kelroy55 03-01-2014, 08:48 AM How about we kick all the able bodied people off government assistance? Welfare/SSI/SSDI reform needs to happen.
I pretty much agree with you on this but there needs to jobs for them. I think it would be cheaper in the long run to offer job training and start doing things we badly need like infrastructure. Highways and bridges are in bad shape and need fixed so start doing that and put folks to work.
Dennis Heaton 03-01-2014, 09:26 AM It's been so long since I started this Thread. What was it again?
JohnnyW 03-01-2014, 01:45 PM How about we kick all the able bodied people off government assistance? Welfare/SSI/SSDI reform needs to happen.
Over 90% of these "entitlement" benefits go to the elderly, disabled, and working households. I don't think that will save much money to kick that small percentage off and it also seems a bit cruel unless you are willing to give them some opportunities, jobs, or training to help them start.
Servicetech571 03-01-2014, 02:23 PM Over 90% of these "entitlement" benefits go to the elderly, disabled, and working households. I don't think that will save much money to kick that small percentage off and it also seems a bit cruel unless you are willing to give them some opportunities, jobs, or training to help them start.
You would be surprised how many people are flying under the "disability unbrella". The government needs to seperate the ones who need it from those looking for a free ride. It's our "secret welfare" system, and just like the race card nobody questions "disability".
Social Security Disability Insurance needs major reform - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/social-security-disability-insurance-needs-major-reform/2013/09/21/6efb945c-222f-11e3-a358-1144dee636dd_story.html)
Dubya61 03-04-2014, 11:56 AM You say what's in the article I posted is flawed but have nothing that show's otherwise?
Well, I have my post. Sure, I'm not as educated or published as Bonnie Kavoussi, and I'm not saying she's factually incorrect. Like I said earlier, no one is going to find a study or a learned person who says that taxes are fair, but to make them fair according to the premise or logic of the article posted, you'd have to scrap sales taxes completely. She's accurate. But it's a lot like saying that people who drive trucks pay a lot more highway and fuel taxes than people who don't own cars and saying that it's unfair. If you want all people to pay exactly the same taxes, you have to make sure they buy exactly the same items. If you want all people to pay taxes at the exact same rate, then you have to make the rich consume things a whole lot more food than the poor in proportion to their income disparity. Yes, the tax structure is basically unequal, but that doesn't make it unfair.
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