This tells me all I need to know. Being unnerved by being at a red light at say, 23rd and Walker is pretty humorous.

Back to my reasoning that your was dumb. Companys need signage, plain and simple. It is highly critical and important for most businesses to have signs that attract customers. And the fact that towns depend on sales tax, attracting and getting shoppers is important. The other reason was that you have a very loose definition of ghettos. 39th and NW 23rd st arent much of a ghetto when you compare to other parts of the city.

And the redevelopment I spoke of was in regards to 23rd st.

Signage is one thing, pole signs and electronic signs/billboards are never required

Dumbest thing I've heard on this forum in a long time....

Folk who use adjectives such as this reflect more on themselves than anything else. Provide a counterpoint... otherwise it's obvious who the _____ ones are... I'll be happy when the kids go away and the adults can talk.

If you don't want them to serve as a distraction to drivers, use the same codes the signs near highways have to follow so they can only change every so often....making them, in effect, static when you drive by. in other words, if you sit and watch them, you'll see them change. But if you just drive by, it wont change and will look like a billboard.

Create a code that the digital has to be integrated into the full sign, so it's "finished" and not left just slapped on a pole.

These are just a few small examples that can help make them work just fine. But like all things in Edmond, someone is going to think that they should be heard complaining about whatever stupid thing is bugging them. I'm sure it "bring down property values" near them. And those streets aren't exactly what I would call pretty. They're just commercial corridors with a bunch of buildings.

Edmond, I really hope you get over yourself one day.

Here's the thing... I don't think we're that far apart on this.

I mean... can we all agree that there is some level of sign controls/limitations that should be in place? Folks shouldn't have 100ft flashing electronic signs changing every 6 seconds, right?

If you agree in any sort of controls/codes, then you agree that the city/population has a right or responsibility to control signage. What we're arguing about then, is the specific limits/standards.

A good example of bad signage, and where we could easily go btw, is the tobacco shop that's fairly new on Broadway at 6th. I almost took pics the other day to post. I did call in a complaint on them, for pennants they had hung (against city law) and luckily they were removed. But their hand painted signage, temporary banners, and pennants are the things that will quickly invade broadway without controls. Edmond is trying hard to fix up that stretch heading into downtown and you have these companies setting up really 39th st looking businesses right now that need to be controlled.

Here's a counter-point. At my church, which sits at a really busy intersection in Edmond, we have one of those plastic slide in the letters kinds of signs. It's enclosed in a brick surround, but the sign part is ugly and plain. We can promote exactly one event at a time. But, we're a busy church and we have lots of activities that the community might like to know about (and that we'd like them to know about). An electronic sign that would let us rotate attractive, low impact (no flashing or video or anything like that) messages about coming events and happenings at the church. That would be a really great thing for us and would be much more attractive than the perfectly legal plastic sign we have now.

I am fully against giant flashing electronic signs and I get the slippery slope argument, but these signs, if done well and properly regulated can be more attractive than the alternatives.

Just my 1/50 of a dollar.

If you don't want them to serve as a distraction to drivers, use the same codes the signs near highways have to follow so they can only change every so often....making them, in effect, static when you drive by. in other words, if you sit and watch them, you'll see them change. But if you just drive by, it wont change and will look like a billboard.They have already done that. Have you seen the regulations?

Here's a counter-point. At my church, which sits at a really busy intersection in Edmond, we have one of those plastic slide in the letters kinds of signs. It's enclosed in a brick surround, but the sign part is ugly and plain. We can promote exactly one event at a time. But, we're a busy church and we have lots of activities that the community might like to know about (and that we'd like them to know about). An electronic sign that would let us rotate attractive, low impact (no flashing or video or anything like that) messages about coming events and happenings at the church. That would be a really great thing for us and would be much more attractive than the perfectly legal plastic sign we have now.

I am fully against giant flashing electronic signs and I get the slippery slope argument, but these signs, if done well and properly regulated can be more attractive than the alternatives.

Just my 1/50 of a dollar.Chasedweller, if you want to get a permit to build an electronic sign, go ahead. You can now. As of right now, you can place electronic signs in Edmond.

Plutonic Panda - I know, but we decided to wait until after the vote on the Initiative Petition as a show of good faith to the community and a few of our members that are involved in the IP drive.

I understand.

They have already done that. Have you seen the regulations?


Then what's the problem? These are far less annoying than banners hammered into the grass or crappy marquees with flashing lights. It should actually serve to clean up the amount of advertising crap on those roads since you get more bang for your buck out of an electronic sign. Same reason electronic menus are popular with small businesses.

Similar to Chase, my church recently added an electronic sign and cased it in brick to match the stone signage next to it. We crank the brightness down at night so it's not a glare problem at the intersection. It helps us far better with community info than the old marquee (fyi they are both at ground level, which happens to be elevated from the road height so no height issues there :) ). That's why I was saying as long as they require that the thing be treated properly and not just slapped on, it can make a huge difference. I'm just wondering the public knows about what the code(s) will be with these. It's not often that the Edmond council makes a decision that detracts from the look of the city. You know they'd be voted out by the next stuff-shirt suburbanite. Personally, you couldn't pay me to live in Edmond, but there are 50K people that like it.

Definition of stuffed shirt:

stuffed shirt

n. person who is perceived as useless, stupid, or given more credit than he/she deserves -- usually a person in higher income or social prominence. See also, blowhard.

Thanks for describing me so perfectly!

Its funny when people take shots at Edmond they end up sounding/acting like the people they think they are describing. Good stuff.

Then what's the problem? These are far less annoying than banners hammered into the grass or crappy marquees with flashing lights. It should actually serve to clean up the amount of advertising crap on those roads since you get more bang for your buck out of an electronic sign. Same reason electronic menus are popular with small businesses.

Similar to Chase, my church recently added an electronic sign and cased it in brick to match the stone signage next to it. We crank the brightness down at night so it's not a glare problem at the intersection. It helps us far better with community info than the old marquee (fyi they are both at ground level, which happens to be elevated from the road height so no height issues there :) ). That's why I was saying as long as they require that the thing be treated properly and not just slapped on, it can make a huge difference. I'm just wondering the public knows about what the code(s) will be with these. It's not often that the Edmond council makes a decision that detracts from the look of the city. You know they'd be voted out by the next stuff-shirt suburbanite. Personally, you couldn't pay me to live in Edmond, but there are 50K people that like it.Bomber, the majority of these sheep aren't aware of the laws regarding the new signs and are guided by blind fear tactics.

Then you have people like Jerrywall who claim we live in a Democracy and wanting everything to be put to a vote by the people because they know there will be low voter turnout that WON'T represent the beliefs of Edmond and its people hoping that the majority of people who show up to vote will be the blind sheep who are uniformed and/or pruposely trying to hide facts and skew data to support their ideas.

The fact of the matter is, these signs are great and well regulated. There are strict standards you have to conform to to place one of these signs in Edmond and in April a freedom you now have it up to be removed again. There are zoning laws for a reason, not so you have to apply for a variance every single time someone wants to build something.

There hasn't even been five permits issued for these signs yet since January, but the sheer fact that YOU have the freedom to build one is enough to set of these people and create controversy over what should be nothing. There are suburbs in Dallas that allow these and are 100x what Edmond will ever be, in terms of beautification and development. In every city you have that one suburb that wants to control and regulate everything and you have a small group of people, but they are still large enough to petition and bring votes to a ballot so they can use low-voter turnout tactics to get what they want and Edmond tops the chart on this one.

I love this city and think it is on the verge of greatness, but these people are holding it back. They deny new religious monuments that they don't agree with(Mosque Expansion). They great urban projects(mixed-use 3 story building downtown). They deny more freedom such as this bill. They even try to deny a drive thru.

I still believe the city will succeed and prosper regardless of these stupid decisions.

Again, I'm amazed how Edmond was able to prosper and grow for 20+ years and pull in record sales taxes with such stupid and restrictive laws in place. It's amazing how we've managed to function before this year not allowing these signs, since evidently they are sooooooo critical to being a great city.

*cough*

The tax revenue can likely be attributed to OKC's growth. Oklahoma City is the only reason Edmond exist and is what it is today. Edmond isn't the only suburb in OKC experience record sales tax revenue.

Also, I never said they were critical to being a great city, just one more benefit and perk.

So, here are in November, and it will be a year after this went into effect in February. How many requests has there been for these signs? Not even five; in fact, last I checked, there wasn't even two. Just one permit issued for an electronic sign that I haven't even seen be put up yet. Go figure.

I want to remind people that this country is NOT a Democracy. It is a constitutional republic. The people of Edmond have already spoken by electing their councilperson(s) into office who decided this is best for the city. We don't vote on everything that gets amended because if we did, we'd have a select group of voters, mainly activist, who will use low voter turnout to help them change laws. What we have is a group of old washed-up mayors who had nothing better to do than go around spreading fear tactics and using people's ignorance to get them to sign a petition that would put Edmond a step back into the past, something this is city seems to be very good at doing.

As I've said, almost all the suburbs in DFW have them and they are 10x the city Edmond will ever be. They are beautiful cities and all have electronic signs. Go figure, yet again. This sign ordinance in Edmond is stricter than all of those. Go have a look: https://localtvkfor.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/edmonds-electronic-sign-ordinance.pdf

1. Electronic Message Signs shall not be permitted to exceed a sign in area larger than 75 percent of the allowed sign size by the particular Zoning District where the sign is located as listed in Title 15.

2. Only one Electronic Messaging Sign, per property ownership, shall be located on arterials or higher classified classified streets according to the Master Transportation Plan.

3. Electronic Message Signs shall have a duration of the text or numeral presentation of no less than a 30 second duration per static message for the products or services sold on the subject property. Electronic Message Signs shall not include, moving, scrolling, rolling, animated, revolving, flashing, or blinking messages. A certification statement by the sign manufacturer or a registered electrical engineer shall be submitted with each Electronic Message Sign, documenting the 30 second duration compliance as to the sign operation.

4. Electronic Message Signs shall not exceed a brightness level of 0.3 foot candles above ambient light, as measured by the guidelines below.

a. At least 30 minutes past sunset, use a foot candle meter to record the ambient light reading for the area. This is done while the digital sign is off or all black copy.

b. Take a reading using a foot candle meter at five feet above grade and 100 feet from the sign.

c. The meter shall be aimed directly at the sign

d. Turn the sign on and illuminated entirely in white or red

e. Take a reading using a meter at five feet above grade and 100 feet from the sign.

f. The meter shall be aimed directly at the sign.

g. Take the reading from five feet above and subtract the reading from two feet above. If the result is 0.3 foot candles or lower, then the sign is in compliance. If the result is 0.3 foot candles, the sign is out of compliance and must be adjusted to meet standards or turned off until compliance can be met.

h. All measurements shall be taken in foot candles.

So lets recap the rules:

*Signs can only be located on Broadway, Second Street going east to Interstate 35, West Edmond Road and 33rd Street from Broadway to Boulevard.(Former mayors push electronic sign repeal - Business - The Edmond Sun (http://www.edmondsun.com/news/business/former-mayors-push-electronic-sign-repeal/article_6e9a1730-c572-5202-8bf9-ea70d8f25952.html?mode=jqm))

*The actual electronic part of it can't be bigger than 75% of the sign itself. The size of the sign depends on where the sign is located. The electronic sign has to be 25% smaller than any other 'normal' sign in the area, which again, are only a select group of streets in Edmond.

*Only one electronic sign per property

*no animation of any kind. Not any movement of any messages at all. This alone makes Edmond's Electronic sign law very strict because a lot of other cities don't have this restriction.

*the message itself can't change more than once every 30 seconds

*the sign can't be bright

It is truly amazing people oppose this and want to continue forcing developers and business owners to have to file for a variance, which are really only supposed to be for special circumstances; not handed out left and right for people that want a modern electronic sign for their business. They would then have to go through the city council which is harder to get things pushed into than the planning commission and takes more time. It makes zero sense at all. To anyone saying that they should just apply for a variance, you are basically saying they should apply for something that isn't allowed by standard, so why even approve it if it is something as simple and common as an electronic sign? They were actually banned before this ordinance, so quit saying people should get a variance for something that was banned.

So knowing how strict the new ordinance is, if anyone is still against it and the signs being allowed, all I can say is wow. If this stupid called vote ends up repealing the ordinance, I guess we just five more years until sense kicks in the ordinance is reinstated, which will happen.

Go ahead and challenge me on any part of why you think they shouldn't be.

Distracted driving maybe? Nope. As said, the sign can't change more than once every 30 seconds. The change is instantaneous. It is literally no different than looking at a regular sign, but this one changes once every 30 seconds, and the majority of drivers won't watch it change--which is what would cause the wrecks--and it would be viewed as any other sign. There is literally zero proof that the sign have caused any wrecks. "Voters are at odds, but police aren’t. In cities used to moving ads like Oklahoma City and Norman, police say there’s no documented proof that signs cause wrecks."

"Unlike other cities, Edmond electronic signs can’t have animation. businesses can only display text. That text can only change every 30 seconds. The rules aim to avoid distracted driving.

Signs drivers are used to seeing in Oklahoma City change in as little as 10 seconds."

"“As a business person, if I want to put one up, I feel I should have the rights to put it up,” said Kelly Van Osdol, owner of Framin’ Gallery." He isn't the only one. I know a lot of small business owners in Edmond and they are all saying they like the ordinance even though not ONE of them has an electronic sign. It's just nice to know they can.

- Electric signs start big debate among Edmond residents | KFOR.com (http://kfor.com/2014/02/13/electric-signs-start-big-debate-among-edmond-residents/)

Think Edmond is doing for revenue? Think again. Go look at all of the new businesses that are relocating to Edmond and how the sales tax revenue is doing.

I have yet to see one valid point other than "I don't like them because they look bad." I have heard more people say they either don't care or don't think they look bad. You know what looks bad? Utility lines. How about these mayors petition to have all of those buried. Think how much better the city would look.

Anyways, challenge me on any of it, I dare you, and yes, it is still irritating that this was made into an issue. Oh the things that happen in Edmond. :p

Key Health Institute's sign has completely changed my view on this... it is so obnoxiously bright, especially during the dark hours, that it changed me from a proponent to an opponent... or at least now an advocate for strict guidelines. I can only hope that the Edmond parameters are sufficient to prevent eyesores like Key Health's sign (which falls outside of the city limits, I believe).

Key Health Institute's sign has completely changed my view on this... it is so obnoxiously bright, especially during the dark hours, that it changed me from a proponent to an opponent... or at least now an advocate for strict guidelines. I can only hope that the Edmond parameters are sufficient to prevent eyesores like Key Health's sign (which falls outside of the city limits, I believe).while it is Edmond zip code, which is listed on its website, it is not in Edmond city limits. So the sign does not conform to the city code nor does it need to do as it is OKC's jurisdiction.

Key Health Institute's sign has completely changed my view on this... it is so obnoxiously bright, especially during the dark hours, that it changed me from a proponent to an opponent... or at least now an advocate for strict guidelines. I can only hope that the Edmond parameters are sufficient to prevent eyesores like Key Health's sign (which falls outside of the city limits, I believe).

Yet Randal Shadid used the proximity of that sign and the shell sign to argue for a variance for the new oncue right there on the Edmond side of 33rd. So the creep is happening. Larger signs, and more obnoxious ones are coming, if we don't stay vigilant.

Yet Randal Shadid used the proximity of that sign and the shell sign to argue for a variance for the new oncue right there on the Edmond side of 33rd. So the creep is happening. Larger signs, and more obnoxious ones are coming, if we don't stay vigilant.The creep is happening. More fear tactics man just stop that crap. The creep is not happening. It's in Oklahoma City limits, not Edmond. If the gas station gets a variance that has literally nothing to do with Edmond's electronic sign ordinance and would happen regardless and it would probably be more likely to happen without standard guidelines for the signs.

The OnCue is not Edmond. It got a variance based on the signs on the OKC side of the street (33rd). So now, if I opened a place further North on Kelly, I'd expect a variance on the same basis, so I could compete with the OnCue. Creep.

The OnCue is not Edmond. It got a variance based on the signs on the OKC side of the street (33rd). So now, if I opened a place further North on Kelly, I'd expect a variance on the same basis, so I could compete with the OnCue. Creep.Do you think Edmond would allow that? If they do, I can understand your frustration, but you have to remember, it very well could still be allowed without the current ordinance.

Hey PluPan, there's a garage on the NE corner (kind of, it's north of the storage facility and bank) of NW 150th/May, drive by there sometime at night and watch how bright and flashing their electronic sign is. If I lived across the street (there are houses there), I'd have a serious problem with that sign, it's the kind of sign that the ordinances are against. Glad to see Edmond taking steps to do the right thing...

The sign that Travellers speaks of is extremely bright and lights up the backyards of the houses across May Avenue. The owner should supply the residents with a complimentary case of SPF 50.

Hey PluPan, there's a garage on the NE corner (kind of, it's north of the storage facility and bank) of NW 150th/May, drive by there sometime at night and watch how bright and flashing their electronic sign is. If I lived across the street (there are houses there), I'd have a serious problem with that sign, it's the kind of sign that the ordinances are against. Glad to see Edmond taking steps to do the right thing...There is an electronic sign in Grove I think as you're driving to Monkey Island on Grand Lake... it is so bright, you have to slow down because it literally almost blinds you and it takes your eyes a minute or so to readjust. It is absolutely amazing to me that that sign is legal. I think I know the one you are referring to. I have seen a few around OKC and the outskirts of Dallas that are ridiculous, so I can definitely understand where people are coming from.

My beef is, it seems like Edmond's strict regulations preventing signs from flashing, being too bright, too big.. etc. are being overlooked and ignored by people who just simply don't like them no matter what and don't want to see them. My grandmother used to do the same thing with incandescent bulbs. She was just old school and didn't want to use florescent or LED, and I think it is just arrogance more than anything.

I'm willing to bet a very small percentage of the city even knows that this is an issue or that they used to be banned. If I recall, the petition was signed by a little over 1,000 people. There is going to be a special vote sometime in early spring(March or April I think), so how many people would you think are going to show up? Out of all those people, which will probably be less than 10% of the city population and I might even go a step further to say it won't even be 5%. A lot of people who either support the signs or don't care either way won't show up. If the city as a whole decided they didn't want the signs then that's fine, a city should be able to ban electronic signs if the majority of the residents don't want them, but due to what will likely be low-voter turnout, I don't think it is fair.

The thing is, is it a big deal if these signs get banned again? No. It isn't like a business is going to say, I can't get electronic signs so I will not locate in Edmond. Having more options for businesses is still competitive either way you look at it and I think Edmond should have modern laws that include allowing businesses for modern features. I really like electronic signs if they're done right. I think Edmond has done the right thing.

BTW, I hope I'm not sounding argumentative towards you. I just get frustrated with small things like this that go unnoticed by many.

Re: " I just get frustrated with small things like this that go unnoticed by many." - Amen, the devil is in the details. ;) Agree with you pretty much, and low voter turnout to enact something can always have problems, people should be way more educated and care about their community than our voting records show.

As far as CFL lights, they do (or at least used to) suck, I agree with your grandma. Even my ophthalmologist says the light they put out isn't as good for reading as lots of other types of light are. :-P

Re: " I just get frustrated with small things like this that go unnoticed by many." - Amen, the devil is in the details. ;) Agree with you pretty much, and low voter turnout to enact something can always have problems, people should be way more educated and care about their community than our voting records show.

As far as CFL lights, they do (or at least used to) suck, I agree with your grandma. Even my ophthalmologist says the light they put out isn't as good for reading as lots of other types of light are. :-PYeah it's sad to see the voter turnout numbers. :/

As far as the light bulbs go, I can't say I really disagree with you. LED lights are a nice alternative, but they seem to take awhile to reach their maximum brightness levels. The florescent lights I've also heard can screw up your sleeping patterns since the light is more of a natural color and it can mess with your eyes. I've switched to 100% LED, except for two light bulbs in the garage which are halogen.

Electronic Billboards Causing Controversy In Edmond - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/27543364/electronic-billboards-causing-controversy-in-edmond)

Pulling the plug? Edmond voters to decide fate of ordinance allowing electronic signs | The Journal Record (http://journalrecord.com/2015/03/27/pulling-the-plug-edmond-voters-to-decide-fate-of-ordinance-allowing-electronic-signs-general-news/)

Regardless of folks position, I definitely encourage everyone who can to vote next week and have their voice heard. It's the best way to put this issue to rest if a large percentage of the voters participate.

This is also our municipal election for City Council and Mayor.

I also encourage everyone, despite their position to consider if they would like the hands of the council tied in the future. I honestly am indifferent on the signage issue, I simply do not like how the previous Mayors are trying to get it passed banning the council from addressing the issue again in the future. Options should always be able to be considered at the moment they are raised. A vote to repeal this ordnance in the future should not be required for the city council to visit and item as requested by the people.

Hopefully people will read this understand these signs are good for the community as they give more options on how to advertise their business they chose to locate in Edmond.

"Electronic Message Sign Proposition Information Guide

On April 7, 2015, Edmond voters will have the opportunity to decide the future use of Electronic Message Signs in the Edmond City Limits by voting on Proposition 1. This is a brief guide to help you understand the ballot.

Current Ordinance, Chapter 15.31 (Ord. 3415, § 1, December 19, 2013):

15.31.010 - Definitions.
For the purpose of this section, the following terms shall have the meanings indicated:
(1) Electronic Message Sign: Any electronic communication device used on a ground sign, or portion thereof, utilizing lights, diodes, or similar illumination to create letters or numerals for products or services sold on the subject property.

15.31.020 - Ground Signs.
(1) Electronic Message Signs are allowed in any Zoning District, subject to full compliance with the standards listed in Title 15 Sign Regulations (including size limitations and spacing), applicable to the Zoning District where the sign is located and the Electronic Message Center standards stated in this Chapter.

(2) Electronic Message Signs shall only be allowed on a fully compliant or conforming ground sign. Pre-existing, non-conforming signs shall not be allowed to be modified or changed to allow an Electronic Message Sign until brought into full compliance with all standards listed in Title 15 and the standards stated in this Chapter.

(3) Electronic Message Signs shall only be allowed on ground signs; Electronic Message Signs are not permitted as wall signs or located on any structure not meeting the definition of a ground sign listed in Title 15.

15.31.030 - Electronic Message Signs are allowed as follows:
(1) Electronic Message Signs shall not be permitted to exceed a sign an area larger than 75 percent of the allowed sign size or sign side allowed by the particular Zoning District where the sign is located and as listed in Title 15.

(2) Only one Electronic Message Sign shall be located on arterials or higher classified streets according to the Master Transportation Plan.

(3) Electronic Message Signs shall have a duration of the text or numeral presentation of no less than a 30-second duration per static message for the products or services sold on the subject property. Electronic Message Signs shall not include moving, scrolling, rolling, animated, revolving, flashing, or blinking messages. A certification statement by the sign manufacturer or a registered electrical engineer shall be submitted with each Electronic Message Sign, documenting the 30-second duration compliance as to the sign operation.

(4) Electronic Message Signs shall not exceed a brightness level of 0.3 foot candles above ambient light, as measured by the guidelines below:

a. At least 30 minutes past sunset, use a foot candle meter to record the ambient light reading for the area. This is done while the digital sign is off or displaying all black copy.
b. Take a reading using foot candle meter at five feet above grade and 100 feet from the sign.
c. The meter shall be aimed directly at the digital sign.
d. Turn the sign on and illuminated entirely in white or red.
e. Take a reading using a meter at five feet above grade and 100 feet from the sign.
f. The meter shall be aimed directly at the digital sign.
g. Take the reading from five feet above and subtract the reading from two feet above. If the result is 0.3 foot candles or lower, then the sign is in compliance. If the result is greater than 0.3 foot candles, the sign is out of compliance and must be adjusted to meet standards or turned off until compliance can be met.
h. All measurements shall be taken in foot candles.

Proposition 1:
SHALL THE FOLLOWING ORDINANCE BE APPROVED?

BE IT ENACTED BY THE PEOPLE OF THE CITY OF EDMOND, OKLAHOMA, THAT AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 15 OF THE EDMOND MUNICIPAL CODE TO ADD A NEW CHAPTER 15.31 (A), (B), AND (C) PROHIBITING ELECTRONIC MESSAGE SIGNS AND PROVIDING FOR REPEALER AND SEVERABILITY BE APPROVED AS FOLLOWS:

Chapter 15.31 (A), (B), and (C) Electronic Message Signs
(A) Electronic message signs are prohibited in the City of Edmond, Oklahoma and cannot be considered as a variance, except for time and temperature signs or gasoline pricing signs that otherwise comply with City of Edmond sign codes.

(B) Electronic message signs are defined as any electronic communication device used on a ground sign, or portion thereof, utilizing lights, diodes, numerals for products or services sold on the subject property.

(C) Any ordinance conflicting with this ordinance is hereby repealed.

What a YES Vote Means:
By voting YES on Proposition 1, you are choosing to enact a new ordinance and the current ordinance goes away permanently. This means electronic signs will not be allowed minus the exceptions for time/temperature and gasoline prices. No exceptions or variances will be allowed at any time in the future.

What a NO Vote Means:
By voting NO on Proposition 1, you are choosing to keep the current ordinance with no changes. This means electronic signs will be allowed."

Edmond, OK - Official Website (http://edmondok.com/CivicAlerts.aspx?AID=329)

So go out and vote regardless of whether you support it or not. I will be able to since I'll be here for it.

Edmond residents to vote on electronic signs | News OK (http://newsok.com/edmond-residents-to-vote-on-electronic-signs/article/5406332)

Not for nothing, for the life of me I can't figure out Randel Shadid's interest in this. He's the variance king, and has made plenty representing developers wanting variances and signs. Heck, back in the 90s he fought to get a variance for a 200 ft crab sign/tower for a sea food restaurant. It's interesting he's pushing a bill that wouldn't allow variance. Wonder if that's just a setup for a future legal battle? He also fought to get Oncue a variance on their signage at 33rd and Kelly.

Variances make absolutely no sense at all. Why have rules if you're going to grant variances all the time. Pretty much every single development I see in Edmond gets a variance of some kind or another.

smh


One side believes the city has grown up, and this is a natural progression and step forward to keep up with the city's rapid growth. The other says it will never be the same, and Edmond will lose it's aesthetic appeal.

"It's the most restrictive electronic message sign ordinance in the Oklahoma City area," said Ken Moore, Edmond Chamber of Commerce President and CEO, referring to a city ordinance passed by the Edmond City Council last year.

"We just want to keep it home-y, and less Las Vegas-y," said Randel Shadid, former Edmond mayor, business owner and attorney.

Shadid helped garner over 1,100 signatures on a petition to put Proposition 1 on Tuesday's ballot. Proposition 1 would ban electronic signs in Edmond.

However, opponents of Proposition 1 say Edmond will never look like Las Vegas.

"I think that's kind of a bogus argument. That's more of a scare tactic than it is reality," said Moore, who pointed to a recent Edmond Chamber of Commerce survey where 77 percent of respondents said they support electronic message signs.

- http://www.koco.com/news/Edmond-voters-to-decide-future-of-electronic-signs/32178338 Less Las Vegas'y. This is almost comical.


"It's the most restrictive electronic message sign ordinance in the Oklahoma City area,"

Not just OKC, if you do some research, Edmond's restrictions are among some of the strictest in the country, which I think is a good thing for a city like Edmond.

Good thing is, 77% people support, bad thing is, that doesn't mean crap if people don't vote and let these people succeed in using low voter turnout as a way as enforcing the views of the few on the masses who either don't care or support it. Every single business owner and person I've talked to with the sole exceptions of some people on this forum(views on the internet usually differ from the what the majority in 'real life' think) and two people at a city council meeting I spoke to.

Something to ponder. Business is what funds city service, not residential areas. If we keep losing business, the funding so the there to adequately provide services to the increasing residential areas and their inhabitants. If it helps business and its a compromise, it'll work better for all in the long run.

I'd be curious what business we keep losing?

I'd be curious what business we keep losing?Jerry, I doubt one business has been lost because of it. You are not understanding the point.

I mean it's kind of like these lights

http://static1.squarespace.com/static/52cecc7fe4b04d7802cf71f3/52f2b17ee4b005492214acbd/52f45274e4b09d0c24fd2311/1391743839677/Road-Tech-Light-Sign.jpg

They light up at night and are awesome. Now is a business or someone who looking to move to Edmond going to say "hmmm, not sure if I want to move here because they don't have those LED road sign names?" No. But it is still awesome to have. A bunch of places in Dallas have them as well as the suburbs there. Addison has nearly every street light with them.

Jerry, I doubt one business has been lost because of it. You are not understanding the point.

I didn't want to get into a whole debate about signs again. But there was a statement that business keeps getting lost that I was curious about. It was a fair question. If anything, Edmond keeps getting cool new businesses that are rare or unique in the OKC metro.

Edmond residents to vote on electronic signage, council members - The Edmond Sun: Lifestyles (http://www.edmondsun.com/news/lifestyles/edmond-residents-to-vote-on-electronic-signage-council-members/article_24a56e60-da65-11e4-bdf1-07f54ae6a68a.html)

On the council vote side... a part of me really really really wants to vote for a guy that attacks houses with a bulldozer while drinking southern comfort and has the last name "Fightmaster".

Fightmaster lost, proposition passed.

It appears low voter turnout tactics won. Not suprising and exactly what I expected. I guess this is yet another thing that tons of other great cities are doing that edmond won't have and this will inevitably be brought back to light in the next five years. Good job Edmond.

It appears low voter turnout tactics won. Not suprising and exactly what I expected. I guess this is yet another thing that tons of other great cities are doing that edmond won't have and this will inevitably be brought back to light in the next five years. Good job Edmond.

Yep. Same ol same ol. Memorial Road will boom with half the shoppers still thinking they're in Edmond while we keep building houses without a sales tax base to support them. It's like the Pops "bottle". That'd be Edmond sales tax if old Edmond wasn't so stubborn. It's not the 70's or 80's anymore and the population isn't 40k. It's time to compete.

Yep. Same ol same ol. Memorial Road will boom with half the shoppers still thinking they're in Edmond while we keep building houses without a sales tax base to support them. It's like the Pops "bottle". That'd be Edmond sales tax if old Edmond wasn't so stubborn. It's not the 70's or 80's anymore and the population isn't 40k. It's time to compete.

Yeah, Edmond will never get unique and rare places like Fuzzy's Tacos, Uptown Grocers, Skinny Slims, The Patriarch, and more if we don't allow these electronic signs. Edmond's economic growth has been so stagnant with the restrictions in place and sales tax revenue is terrible.

On the Pops "bottle" was there even an attempt to do that in Edmond?

OKC has every single one of those things you mentioned with the sole excpetions if the Patriarch, but in sure Norman has one.

Edmond sucks. I can not wait to get out of it. You completely fail to see the bigger picture like all of the other washed up idiots who voted to ban them.

This is not a democracy and less than 3% of the population showed up to vote on this proposition.

Fuzzy Tacos, yeah, Edmond is getting one in a car oriented area. OKC and Norman already have them in walkable areas.

Skinny Slims started in OKC.

Uptown Grocery is lipstick on a pig and OKC already has Crest Fresh Market and Whole Foods which puts Uptown to shame.

Like I said, I bet OKC and Norman already have concepts like the Patriach.

As for the Pops Bottle, I don't know where you heard that, but my understanding was Aubrey or his wife didn't want to build it in Edmond and had issues getting it approved in Arcadia.

Also, funny to note if you go to the OKC/Edmond boundaries you suddenly have more business across the street in OKC City limits. If retailers and unique businesses wanted to be in Edmond, they'd be there, but yet they all choose to go to Memorial Road where there are less restrictions on how the city tells them they can operate their business.

So the sole thing Edmond has that might not even be unique is the Patriarch. Pops isn't located in Edmond and the majority of the city is filled with sh!t shopping centers and strip malls.

Edmond is not that nice of a city and it is perplexing to me why people around here say it is. I guess that shows you how low standards in Oklahoma are.

It can become nice and I'm sure it will. This ban will be overturned in the next five years and hopefully by that time we'll have progressed even more.

Btw, one other thing Edmond has I found out last night that blew me away was the Fox Lake trail. Edmond trails are amazing and the way they light them up is beautiful.

Hrm, I'd love for someone to drive to those businesses on Memorial and take some pictures of animated signs that wouldn't be allowed in Edmond. I can't think of many (if any) there.

It's about traffic. Memorial and Penn and Memorial and May are the two highest traffic intersections in Oklahoma. Gee... gosh, gee willikers.. I wish someone could figure out why businesses would want to be located in a high traffic area that can pull customers from Edmond AND North OKC. Geeze.. it's a conundrum.

Edmond is seeing lots of unique economic growth, and if the best you can say is that Norman and OKC each have one too for some of the businesses here... well, that's pretty darn impressive. Out of the metro, these businesses choose OKC (biggest city in the state), Norman (hip college town) and Edmond. But you're right, Edmond sucks, no business wants to be here, and blah, blah, blah.

Whatever. I wish one of these times when you promised to never post in the Edmond forum again, you'd keep your word.

So now your going to try and tell me retailers just look at traffic counts? Change your criteria to make yourself look better.

also, can you please explain to me where you got that I was saying this

If the best you can say is Norman and OKC each have one too
Where did i say that?

I pointed out all of the busiesses you said that are unique to the metro are already here.

You want me to point out all of the unique developments in Norman and OKC that Edmond doesn't have? On second thought, please don't make me do that becasue it will take too long to write down.

Oh wait, Edmond did have something entirely unique to the metro proposed, what happened to that? Oh yeah, the developer pacied up and left because of all the opposition to it because of the typical Edmond backlash, more crime, traffic, and noise. Funny.

Edmond sucks. I can not wait to get out of it. You completely fail to see the bigger picture like all of the other washed up idiots who voted to ban them.


rude.

i fail to see how electronic message signs would improve edmond. i believe it would do the opposite aesthetically, and that's why i voted to ban them.

like jerry said, edmond seems to have done fine without them before now, and i'm sure edmond will be fine without them in the future.

rude. I'm done arguing with insanity. It's over, they're banned, less than five years from now the ban will be over turned. Wonder what they'll do with all of the ones that were built, oh wait, less than five of them over the last year were built; but wait, according to you they would contribute to blight. Funny how something hat isn't even there contributes to blight.

So instead of voting and pushing for things that make sense we're voting and pushing for things that set us back behind the times. Typical Oklahoma community.

rude. I'm done arguing with insanity. It's over, they're banned, less than five years from now the ban will be over turned. Wonder what they'll do with all of the ones that were built, oh wait, less than five of them over the last year were built; but wait, according to you they would contribute to blight. Funny how something hat isn't even there contributes to blight.

So instead of voting and pushing for things that make sense we're voting and pushing for things that set us back behind the times. Typical Oklahoma community.

what i stated was my opinion. are we not allowed to express our opinions on a public message board?

and stop with the name calling already... "washed up idiots". grow up and quit being irrational - maybe others will take you more seriously.

More crap and no direct responses to any my points because you don't have anything else to say besides whine and bitch.

I tell you what, I'll do you a favor. Done trying to improve crap.

More crap and no direct responses to any my points because you don't have anything else to say besides whine and bitch.

what points would you like me to respond to?

I'm ok with the ban. Personally I think that many of these electronic signs are obnoxious. They add to visual pollution. and there are many that hamper night time vision when driving. ... IMO.

I'm ok with the ban. Personally I think that many of these electronic signs are obnoxious. They add to visual pollution. and there are many that hamper night time vision when driving. ... IMO.

A lot of people forget about light pollution (and granted this isn't limited to electronic message signs). I used to be able to go into my backyard and watch stars and see events with a telescope, but in the past 10-15 years that's gone away with so many new light sources in my area of town. Of course, when I moved in there, 33rd was two lane, and 33rd and Santa Fe was a stop sign.

when we moved out southeast of Arcadia in 2004, the sky and horizon was like that. Stars as far as the eye could see and virtually complete darkness on moonless nights. 10 years later when we moved back into Edmond, the stars were getting drowned out for all the lights and encroachment out that direction.

We lived on a hill top, and I remember when Kickingbird golf course installed the lights for their night time driving range. One night, I looked to the west and thought "what the hell is that?" ... The light on the horizon was so bright and pointing our direction ...
It pissed me off enough to where I jumped in my truck and took a drive to find out where the light was coming from, and I found it. .... 12 miles to the west at Danforth & Bryant. The neighborhood just to the east of the driving range was drenched in light,... lit up almost like daytime. I felt sorry for them. I think the golf course, or the city got enough complaints because after a couple weeks, the light were either re directed to point more at the ground, or they were changed out to some that weren't so bright.

when we moved out southeast of Arcadia in 2004, the sky and horizon was like that. Stars as far as the eye could see and virtually complete darkness on moonless nights. 10 years later when we moved back into Edmond, the stars were getting drowned out for all the lights and encroachment out that direction.

We lived on a hill top, and I remember when Kickingbird golf course installed the lights for their night time driving range. One night, I looked to the west and thought "what the hell is that?" ... The light on the horizon was so bright and pointing our direction ...
It pissed me off enough to where I jumped in my truck and took a drive to find out where the light was coming from, and I found it. .... 12 miles to the west at Danforth & Bryant. The neighborhood just to the east of the driving range was drenched in light,... lit up almost like daytime. I felt sorry for them. I think the golf course, or the city got enough complaints because after a couple weeks, the light were either re directed to point more at the ground, or they were changed out to some that weren't so bright.

I remember as a kid in the 80's being able to see Halley's comet. We were able to view it from our house in Timber Ridge in Edmond, and we also went down to a viewing at the zoo to be able to see it on a bigger, special telescope (stood in line for hours). I can't imagine being able to view anything from the zoo at this point, with all the light pollution there.

As an Edmond resident I don't give a rip about electronic signage. If electronic signage is the only thing keeping a development from happening then that's pretty pathetic.

There are many things I would change about Edmond, but there are so many good things about my city that I will choose to focus on the positive. I would wish for that same sort of serenity to be found for Panda. He sounds very unhappy.