Having an outdoor stadium in an area that does not have great connectivity to the rest of the district is a home-run. There are so many things that an outdoor stadium can be used for. I just hope they construct the field so that it can be used for both versions of Football.

If they shoot for a capacity of 20k to 25k, they can do a lot with that. The opportunity to use it for HS sports would be pretty attractive.

Since Fred and Champ are involved with the Lumberyard site, I see the Lumberyard for hotels, retail and structured parking with the Co-op for housing, parks, etc and the stadium. Since the Lumberyard faces the boulevard, that is probably where the hotels will go and the stadium further to the south. I am curious if they will try to create another entrance to the south from Shields so SW 4th or the Boulevard are not the only entrances.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Mazaheri group is also part of the investment group that has the Coop under contract.

^ ^ ^ ^
You made this call back on July 21:


My first thought was that it was the Mazaheri group, as they already own the Lumberyard to the north and have been very aggressive.

But that is just a hunch, not based on anything I've heard.

Good hunch!

We'll probably see a few hotels put in place. OKC's hotel growth has really beginning to skyrocket of late.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Mazaheri group is also part of the investment group that has the Coop under contract.

Pete, how many more hotels can BT/DT take on before occupancy starts to drop? I would assume the hotel(s) around here would not be built until after the Convention hotel, since the deal has not closed and there is no plan in place.

I agree with your post, but "getting in on the ground floor" is off base. We are so late to the party that even getting a sniff will be extremely difficult.

MLS is in it's 20th season and for the first decade held steady at around 10-12 teams. The next few years they added a team a year, until the expansion explosion. Here are the confirmed teams to be added:
2015: New York City
2015: Orlando
2017: Atlanta
2017: Minnesota
2018: Los Angeles
2018: Miami

Commissioner Don Garber announced a short list of the next 4 expansion teams last month during the All Star game. They include,
2019: Sacramento
2019: St. Louis
2020: Detroit
2020: San Antonio

The next four cities most often discussed beyond those are San Diego, Charlotte, Austin, & Las Vegas.

These cities are miles ahead of us in preparation and funding. Getting on the MLS radar will be very difficult, but money talks.

I'm a 3 year season ticket holder for the OKC Energy and have been dreaming of a downtown stadium since the club first announced they would play their first season at Bishop McGuinness. The thought that we just decide to build a stadium and choose to participate in Major League Soccer isn't how this works. I've followed the league for years and we are nowhere near being considered.

That being said, my question is this: Will the stadium be built if the MLS invite never comes? Would ownership still build the stadium on this site for the Energy to call home regardless of what league they play in?

Bad phrasing on my part and all solid points.

Okc would be wise try and capture a franchise before the MLS gets to 32. Instead of having to wait for someone to fail or relocate. Once it hits 32, it's going to stop. The NFL's model really shows that 32 is the perfect number.

But it'd be a great disservice to not incorporate items or similar pieces of the co-op in the design of whatever takes its place.

I'll second that. To me, it's a really cool old place. And while it's an eyesore to some, to others, like myself, see it as a strong visible tie to our agricultural and industrial roots. It would be neat to incorporate some of the original barn tin with the Producers Coop logo, and even some of the structures into the new designs, to help tie the past to the present on the sight.

I think it'd be great if we could turn this area into something similar like what SA has done with the Pearl District. While these buildings are not quite as majestic as the ones there, it'd be neat to see things a little more industrial themed!

I think it'd be great if we could turn this area into something similar like what SA has done with the Pearl District. While these buildings are not quite as majestic as the ones there, it'd be neat to see things a little more industrial themed!

I'm a little tired of the industrial theme, but I do love the Pearl District.

Atlantic Station in Atlanta did a good job turning a steel mill location into condos, townhomes, shopping and entertainment.

A JR article about TIF funding for a soccer stadium and surprise, Shadid is opposed to it...

Some OKC leaders warm to soccer stadium

By: Brian Brus The Journal Record September 6, 2016

OKLAHOMA CITY – A proposed soccer stadium at the edge of Bricktown seems to fit Oklahoma City’s core development plan, City Council members said Tuesday.

But at least one official said he doubts the project’s value will justify public investment as the sports team owner profits.

“My take on this is overwhelmingly negative to the idea of taxpayers funding a super-rich individual like Bob Funk,” Shadid said. “Especially when studies have shown either neutral or negative local economic impacts to having sports franchises.

“We cannot look to the Thunder (basketball team) as an example of what to expect. The Thunder was an outlier,” he said.

Councilman James Greiner said he’s been discussing Bob Funk Jr.’s recently announced purchase of the Producers Cooperative Oil Mill with his wife and was surprised she has taken an even more conservative side in the argument than his. Funk is trying to get his Energy soccer team in Oklahoma City to the MLS, or Major League Soccer. In order to win the league’s approval, the team will need a bigger stadium and more spectators.

The site in question is nearly 40 acres just south of Bricktown, a co-op that plans to move operations to Altus anyway. A year ago, city officials rejected the board of directors’ offer to sell the property for less than $18 million for the construction of a new convention center. The co-op directors struck a private deal with Funk instead.

Greiner said his family discussions have forced him to closely evaluate the potential of the Funk project. The co-op’s profile doesn’t fit the retail and entertainment business district that’s grown up around it, and it does fall within the Core to Shore redevelopment plan for the properties between the Oklahoma River and the new main street boulevard, previously the Interstate 40 Crosstown.

“We’ve already recognized that the co-op is one of the possible TIFs we could create,” Greiner said, referring to a tax increment finance district. “I would think that could be one of the possible funding mechanisms. If this proves to be a real deal, you could possibly even see it as a MAPS 4 project.”

The fourth Metropolitan Area Projects tax issue has not been outlined yet. Construction of several $777 million MAPS 3 goals is still underway, including the new central park, downtown streetcar route and convention center. MAPS packages so far have been temporary sales taxes collected throughout the city. A TIF district, on the other hand, would involve increased tax collections only within the region near the project in question.

Councilwoman Meg Salyer agreed on several points with Greiner. Like Greiner, she said it’s still far too early in the process to commit to a plan, although previous experience with the NBA Thunder team suggests public support could help convince the league to grant a team franchise.

“And it’s obvious that soccer is exploding in growth in our community,” Salyer said. “The city has invested in improved soccer facilities in our parks already. And I think it’s incredibly exciting for a group of local investors to acquire that property. … I can imagine how spectacular our city skyline would be with a soccer stadium behind it. It really does bring in another piece of the puzzle in creating things for people to do downtown.”

Shadid said it would be a mistake to use the Thunder’s success as a template for a new franchise team.

“For a small market city like Oklahoma City to get an NBA team is an anomaly, and certainly one that has repeatedly made it to the finals,” Shadid said. “It’s a different equation entirely. When you’re talking about Major League Soccer, I do not believe it will have the same parameters and steep curve of success.”

Shadid also said the evidence is thin that professional teams have a positive impact on the local economy. Lacking a sports event to attend, locals will spend the same money on some other entertainment, studies have shown.

For example, a study published in 2000 by economists Dennis Coates and Brad Humphreys of the University of Maryland-Baltimore County found that major league football and baseball stoppages between 1969 and 1996 had no negative effect on 37 host cities, and that those communities saw a slight increase in per capita income during those periods. And Robert Baade, a sports economist from Lake Forest College in Illinois, found in his 2006 study of Florida tax data that game stoppages since 1980 had no statistically significant effect on the sales tax receipts of a team’s host city. In other words, the community still circulated the same amount of money through the economy with or without sports events.

Cathy O’Connor, executive director of the Oklahoma City Urban Renewal Authority, said her organization will need to consider more market information before taking a formal position on an arena.

“When we were working on the most recent Core to Shore reinvestment area project plan, the basis for the new TIF district that covers the area – and even before that – we saw the site as having great potential for some sort of mixed-use development,” O’Connor said. “I think it fits in well with that plan.”

Good grief. Limiting the public cost/benefit analysis of a sports franchise to sales tax collections one way or the other completely misses the point. The difference pro sports make for a city like OKC is by creating quality of life options that did not exist before, and makes it easier for a city to attract/retain talent and thereby new corporate opportunities. A city like OKC - without much of a profile nationally - benefits from increased exposure far more than a city already on the map (like a NY, Chicago, LA, Dallas, or even Seattle or Portland). This is precisely what we experienced with the Thunder; this much is undeniable.

I completely get that we need to be very careful regarding the position we put ourselves in on public participation in facilities. Other cities have put themselves into terrible binds, sure. But those tend to involve big-ticket sports and stadiums. They also tend to involve bonding (debt), which makes the whole thing more expensive and just kicks the resultant financial problems down the road. An MLS team and stadium in OKC would be none of the above.

I am okay with people being cautious about building a stadium for a private team and owner.

But I am more than okay with a city building a stadium that is owned by the city, used by the city for other events, and then having the city lease use of the stadium to a private team and owner.

I am okay with people being cautious about building a stadium for a private team and owner.

But I am more than okay with a city building a stadium that is owned by the city, used by the city for other events, and then having the city lease use of the stadium to a private team and owner.

Agree, the city has its own land on the riverfront & the fairgrounds. We don't have to wait 5 to 7 years to begin plans to build a soccer-AF stadium contingent on Funk's plans on a private development; unless he's going to donate the land to the city.

OKC could build a nice 12-000 - 20,000-seat stadium on city owned land with a $60-$75 million budget with the future capacity to expand. Allow an MLS anchor tenant to invest in money making amenities to enhance the stadium. The publicity, marketing & advertising that OKC would get from being a member of the MLS are immeasurable--much like the Thunder.

http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=34454&page=5&highlight=soccer+stadium

Good grief. Limiting the public cost/benefit analysis of a sports franchise to sales tax collections one way or the other completely misses the point. The difference pro sports make for a city like OKC is by creating quality of life options that did not exist before, and makes it easier for a city to attract/retain talent and thereby new corporate opportunities. A city like OKC - without much of a profile nationally - benefits from increased exposure far more than a city already on the map (like a NY, Chicago, LA, Dallas, or even Seattle or Portland). This is precisely what we experienced with the Thunder; this much is undeniable.

I completely get that we need to be very careful regarding the position we put ourselves in on public participation in facilities. Other cities have put themselves into terrible binds, sure. But those tend to involve big-ticket sports and stadiums. They also tend to involve bonding (debt), which makes the whole thing more expensive and just kicks the resultant financial problems down the road. An MLS team and stadium in OKC would be none of the above.
Plus an MLS team would be an expansion of the entertainment market for Okc. Most cities spend hundreds of millions simply to retain what they already have.

Agree, the city has its own land on the riverfront & the fairgrounds. We don't have to wait 5 to 7 years to begin plans to build a soccer-AF stadium contingent on Funk's plans on a private development; unless he's going to donate the land to the city.

OKC could build a nice 12-000 - 20,000-seat stadium on city owned land with a $60-$75 million budget with the future capacity to expand. Allow an MLS anchor tenant to invest in money making amenities to enhance the stadium. The publicity, marketing & advertising that OKC would get from being a member of the MLS are immeasurable--much like the Thunder.

http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=34454&page=5&highlight=soccer+stadium

Laramie, completely disagree about placing a facility like this on fairgrounds. That would create a situation where we would have spent money on something and almost immediately be pining for something better, or worse yet having our feet held to the fire by an owner. There is a reason why MLS franchises in other markets have a tough time attracting an audience or driving economic development near stadiums that are located in suburbs or in vast parking lots. Even NFL football stadiums and major league ballparks in the middle of seas of parking and nothing else leave lots to be desired, which is why you see communities working to bring their venues downtown.

If there is one lesson to be learned from the Bricktown Ballpark and the Chesapeake Arena it is that placing those facilities in the middle of other entertainment options, lodging and the like drives further economic development, enhances the game day experience, and causes our facilities to be more attractive for promoters of other events.

If the City develops a real concern regarding a private owner having title to a facility substantially funded by taxpayers, they could push for the stadium land and the ownership of the building be transferred to OCPPA as a part of the deal. That said, we are all ASSUMING that public participation would mean tens or even hundreds of millions from taxpayers for a BUILDING, and that may not be the case at all. The ask may instead be for infrastructure or some other element. Let's not assume too much at this point.

TIFing the whole district would create a situation where we effectively subsidize the stadium through subsidizing other businesses we wouldn't normally subsidize. Beyond the fact that it's a brownfield site, the COOP site has very limited connectivity and bringing in someone who can create a cohesive area centered around something that will draw people in because of its novelty is important. Those types of novelty items aren't always big ticket, but there's really not a better use of this land than a multi/block facility that brings large numbers of people in rather than relying on foot traffic that is realistically never going to come because connectivity to this area is never going to be better than lacking. In its current setup it's essentially impossible. So TIF is absolutely understandable here.

On the other hand, I'm not sure that I would be in favor of putting this on a MAPS ballot after doing TIF, but it depends on how we could frame the issue. If it's MAPS, whatever is built needs to be owned by the city, or at least in part with an agreement that stipulates that the city controls certain rights over whatever property is built, stadium or otherwise.

At any rate, there's no reason to be on one-side of the fence or the other. What's important is that we proceed intelligently and we do a thorough cost/benefit analysis of these plans when they come online.

Laramie, completely disagree about placing a facility like this on fairgrounds.

If the City develops a real concern regarding a private owner having title to a facility substantially funded by taxpayers, they could push for the stadium land and the ownership of the building be transferred to OCPPA as a part of the deal. That said, we are all ASSUMING that public participation would mean tens or even hundreds of millions from taxpayers for a BUILDING, and that may not be the case at all. The ask may instead be for infrastructure or some other element. Let's not assume too much at this point.




TIFing the whole district would create a situation where we effectively subsidize the stadium through subsidizing other businesses we wouldn't normally subsidize. Beyond the fact that it's a brownfield site, the COOP site has very limited connectivity and bringing in someone who can create a cohesive area centered around something that will draw people in because of its novelty is important.

In its current setup it's essentially impossible. So TIF is absolutely understandable here.

If it's MAPS, whatever is built needs to be owned by the city, or at least in part with an agreement that stipulates that the city controls certain rights over whatever property is built, stadium or otherwise.

At any rate, there's no reason to be on one-side of the fence or the other. What's important is that we proceed intelligently and we do a thorough cost/benefit analysis of these plans when they come online.

Good point, posts by Urbanized & Teo9969 are very well crafted...

KC could be model for Funk’s soccer goal

By: Molly M. Fleming The Journal Record September 9, 2016

OKLAHOMA CITY – Major League Soccer has expanded to 24 teams, with new teams starting games into 2018. Commissioner Don Garber has said he wants only 28 teams in the league, leaving four slots available.

Several cities are being considered for those slots, including Miami, Florida; St. Louis; Detroit; San Antonio; and Austin, Texas.

All of those metro areas have more people than Oklahoma City. But having the smaller city in a big league doesn’t dismay Bob Funk Jr. He said the city will grow by the time he wants to recruit an MLS team, which is in the next six to 10 years.

“We’ve grown consistently regardless of what the rest of the country does,” he said. “In the next six to 10 years, our local economy will be better. While our immediate income is lower (than cities considered by MLS for expansion), so is our cost of living. Our corporate base will be better in the next six to 10 years.”

Funk is working with a group of local investors to purchase the 37-acre Producers Cooperative plant south of Bricktown. The soccer-specific stadium for an MLS team would be part of a larger mixed-use project that would include hotels, housing, retail, and structured parking.

But during those six to 10 years that Funk is planning to evaluate the development, Garber could close the doors of MLS expansion teams. Most of the cities being eyed for expansion have higher median household incomes than Oklahoma City, where it’s $51,635. Miami is the exception, where the MHI is $48,000. The other cities’ MHIs range from $52,462 (Detroit) to $63,572 (Austin).

Funk said he thinks MLS will reach more than 28 teams. He said other professional league commissioners have mentioned a stopping point and continued to add teams.

“We could fit into that 28-team slot,” he said. “It all depends on how the community embraces the possibility.”

Part of the community support will likely include a public finance package to build the stadium. The stadium cost is on top of an expansion fee. The MLS expansion fee could reach $200 million in the coming years. Los Angeles FC paid $110 million as an expansion fee. It will start playing in 2018.

The $250 million Los Angeles stadium is being funded by the team’s ownership group, which includes former NBA player Magic Johnson, Mandalay Entertainment Chief Executive Peter Guber, who also owns the Dodgers, and former soccer star Mia Hamm. In Miami, soccer legend David Beckham has purchased land for a stadium.

But other cities have pursued a public financing plan, such as Mercedes-Benz Stadium in Atlanta.

In Kansas City, Kansas, the Unified Government of Wyandotte County used several public funding options to finance the $400 million Children’s Mercy Park and Cerner office complex. The project used $147 million in sales tax revenue bonds and another $85 million in state of Kansas tax credits, plus cash for job creation, said Edwin Burch, PIO with the Unified Government. The funding was approved in 2010.

Another $7.7 million in special obligation bonds was used for the parking lot between the stadium and Kansas Speedway. The bonds are being repaid through a ticket tax at the stadium.

Having a stadium is only one part of the expansion requirement. MLS Communications Executive Vice President Dan Courtemanche said the league also looks for a good ownership group, an appropriate market that is attractive to sponsors and television partners, and a history of strong fan support for soccer matches and other sporting events. He said the league monitors TV market ratings for MLS games and other soccer matches.

Soccer America Editor-in-Chief Paul Kennedy said Oklahoma City is a small market to be considered for an MLS team.

“What’s being attempted in Oklahoma City is not common and has never been successful before,” he said.

He said MLS is getting more conservative in terms of where is expands. In the past, expansion fees were only $10 million, but some teams have since folded and investors lost money.

“A team going forward is going to spend a lot more than it used to on a stadium, expansion fees, and stadium development,” Kennedy said.

In my opinion, the biggest factor in attracting MLS is Andy will continue to be fan support. Sacramento has a metro not much bigger than ours, like OKC was an NBA-only market, and received their USL team the same year as OKC. Yet with their staunch fan support, Sactown has catapulted themselves to the top of MLS' expansion pecking order. If we could begin to fill 7,500-seat Taft, it could signal to the MLS that OKC will be a viable expansion option if-and-when the stadium is built (or at least solidly planned and funded).

As for Garber saying the league stops at 28, this is likely a play to increase competition among the few cities vying for a team as well as drive up the franchise expansion fee. If at 28, or even 30, OKC is sitting here with a downtown, riverside stadium and rabid fan base, MLS would be foolish not to take advantage.

On an unrelated note, I was driving by Boathouse Row yesterday, and if even the mixed-use portion of the development comes to fruition, the view from the SE as you cross the river on Lincoln will be absolutely amazing. Chesapeake Boathouse in the foreground, followed by the Producers Co-op development, with the skyline in he back, anchored by Devon. If the stadium gets built, this view will become unreal.

http://m.newsok.com/okcs-downtown-development-goes-on-despite-economic-woes/article/5518568


Lackmeyer: We are looking at a decade before we see a possible stadium south of Bricktown.

The decade until the stadium is a bit disappointing, but hopefully there's general development there much sooner.

Co-op finds itself in tall cotton
By: Brian Brus The Journal Record January 10, 2017

OKLAHOMA CITY – A strong cotton harvest is helping the Producers Cooperative Oil Mill’s relocation to Altus from the Bricktown district in Oklahoma City.

Co-op President Austin Rose said the co-op is still planning to sell the 37-acre site to an investor group led by Bob Funk Jr. for a soccer stadium. Details of the deal have been kept quiet, and Rose said there have been no problems since his members approved the sale in June.

Increased mill operations have been a blessing to Altus, Chamber of Commerce President Brian Bush said. The move produced about 25 new positions, which has helped support other jobs in town, he said. And the mill’s presence has generated synergy: Producers Cooperative entered a joint venture with two other co-ops to buy and operate a grain elevator, which has let them move more product by train instead of being limited to trucks.

The transition couldn’t have come at a better time. This season’s cotton crop in Oklahoma has bounced back from drought and looks to be the biggest it’s been in years. Officials at the Cotton Growers Cooperative at Altus, an industry cousin to Rose’s group, said they are ginning about 165,000 bales this year, 40,000 more than the site’s record.

Jay Cowart, vice president of warehouse operations for the Plains Cotton Cooperative Association, said some of Altus’ overflow has been moved to storage in Sweetwater, Texas, for the first time in more than a decade. It’s a problem he’s happy to have.

Cowart said oil mill operations and his co-op have little interaction, but he added that the mill’s relocation to Altus has made it easier for many cotton farmers to get their product to market.

I recently went to Altus and had no idea to what extent we grew cotton in this state until I saw the fields myself (keep in mind I'm not from here). The move kind of makes sense I guess.

I recently went to Altus and had no idea to what extent we grew cotton in this state until I saw the fields myself (keep in mind I'm not from here). The move kind of makes sense I guess.

Down by Eakly, Cordell and Carnegie, there is huge cotton production.

Oil patch to soccer match? Investors seek additional details about co-op site

By: Molly M. Fleming The Journal Record February 3, 2017

OKLAHOMA CITY – Prodigal LLC CEO Bob Funk Jr. has learned a lot in the last few months about the 37 acres he and his investors want to buy near Bricktown.

The group is still doing its due diligence on the Producers Cooperative Oil Mill, 6 SE Fourth St.

“We’ve gotten some heads-up on things environmentally,” he said. “We know it was in the Oklahoma City oil patch. We are doing further investigation to find out how much it was involved.”

The Oklahoma Corporation Commission’s data shows there are eight plugged oil wells on the land. The site is directly south of Bricktown and southeast of downtown’s Central Business District.

Funk wants to buy the land for a multi-use development, which would include a soccer-specific stadium. He and his investor group want to bring a Major League Soccer team to the city.

He said in the next 30 days, he will have several meetings where he and his team will learn more about what’s underneath the Producers Co-op site.

“We don’t think there will be an issue,” he said. “We’ll see what the studies come back with and move on from there.”

The funding for the multi-use development could be part of a public/private partnership. Some cities have used a similar mechanism to build their soccer stadiums, including Kansas City, Kansas.

The Unified Government of Wyandotte County used several public funding options to finance the $400 million Children’s Mercy Park and Cerner office complex. The project used $147 million in sales tax revenue bonds and another $85 million in Kansas tax credits, plus cash for job creation, said Edwin Birch, public information officer with the Unified Government. The funding was approved in 2010.

Another $7.7 million in special obligation bonds was used for the parking lot between the stadium and Kansas Speedway. The bonds are being repaid through a ticket tax at the stadium.

The Oklahoma City Council had a conversation about public/private partnership for a soccer stadium. Councilman James Greiner recognized the area is in a potential tax-increment-finance district and the financing could be included in a MAPS 4 project list. The fourth Metropolitan Area Projects tax issue has not been outlined yet.

Funk said he knows other citywide concerns need to be addressed before a stadium is put on a public financing list. He listed criminal justice reform, streets, and sidewalks as other priorities.

“We’re just not there from a median income/corporate support aspect,” he said. “That needs to raise over the next five years before we bid for an MLS team.”

As of 2020, the MLS will have 26 teams playing, with only two more teams to be named, the league announced this month. Commissioner Don Garber has said previously he wants only 28 teams in the league. Twelve cities are vying for the final four slots, with team No. 25 and No. 26 to be named this year.

Funk has said he thinks the MLS will go past its 28 teams. Other professional league commissioners have mentioned a stopping point and continued to add teams.

There's also the possibility of relocation if MLS tops off at 28 teams.

Oklahoma City is a solid NBA market (280 consecutive sellout since 2010) with name-recognition with the MLS Oklahoma City Energy FC brand name.

Sounds as though the city is cozying up to the stadium idea which could help partially fund the stadium's infrastructure starting with a modest 10,000 seat SSS expandable to 18,000 plus.

OKC Energy FC will have the metro OKC market all to themselves with the absence of Rayo OKC. Combined, the two minor league OKC teams averaged 8,192 (Energy FC 4,950 & Rayo 3,242). The Rayo OKC fans could be a group that Energy FC should target.

USL Energy FC games that reach near capacity or sellouts at Taft Stadium (7,500 seats) will be a good gauge for a soccer specific stadium's potential near Bricktown where there are many family friendly amenities (restaurants, retail, tailgate atmosphere) that the area around Taft doesn't offer.

I was just reading the other day that Stl is going to build a 22k seat soccer stadium downtown around Union Station. The total is around 200+mil and the City is putting up around 60 mil in tax dollars related to tic sales and tif. Okc/Funk need to push on this deal asap IMO. It looks like Stl and Sac. will be the next 2 cities announced.

I was just reading the other day that Stl is going to build a 22k seat soccer stadium downtown around Union Station. The total is around 200+mil and the City is putting up around 60 mil in tax dollars related to tic sales and tif. Okc/Funk need to push on this deal asap IMO. It looks like Stl and Sac. will be the next 2 cities announced.
Not to derail this thread, but that doesn't seem to make a lot of sense for St. Louis. They've got a football stadium that no one's using. Could that not be refitted for soccer? Or are there plans for them to get another NFL team? Otherwise it seems silly to build another stadium when that one is sitting empty.

Not to derail this thread, but that doesn't seem to make a lot of sense for St. Louis. They've got a football stadium that no one's using. Could that not be refitted for soccer? Or are there plans for them to get another NFL team? Otherwise it seems silly to build another stadium when that one is sitting empty.

MLS doesn't want teams playing in cavernous NFL stadiums that they can't (and shouldn't be expected) to fill. The last of those stragglers (I think) is DC United who is finally opening their own SSS.

MLS doesn't want teams playing in cavernous NFL stadiums that they can't (and shouldn't be expected) to fill. The last of those stragglers (I think) is DC United who is finally opening their own SSS.
I guess I understand that but St. Louis' stadium isn't all that big. It only seats 66K. That's barely bigger than Boone Pickens Stadium.

I guess I understand that but St. Louis' stadium isn't all that big. It only seats 66K. That's barely bigger than Boone Pickens Stadium.

But when only 20,000 fans are there, it seems waaaaaay too big. Think of what most college spring games look like. Attendance will probably be less than that. In 2015, OU had 43,000 people at the spring game, a stadium of 85,000 people, so right around half. OSU had 16,000 in a stadium of 66,000. It could be depressing to see 25-30% of the stadium full every game, even though it there are a lot of people, it is just proportionately.

But when only 20,000 fans are there, it seems waaaaaay too big. Think of what most college spring games look like. Attendance will probably be less than that. In 2015, OU had 43,000 people at the spring game, a stadium of 85,000 people, so right around half. OSU had 16,000 in a stadium of 66,000. It could be depressing to see 25-30% of the stadium full every game, even though it there are a lot of people, it is just proportionately.

Right, and much of that can negatively impact perception, which with the MLS growing, they won't want.
I am not a Soccer fan, and won't start watching even if OKC or Tulsa were to get a team, but I do think either way, it'll be good for the communities and state.
That said, I do believe a small stadium will be built to specifically accommodate Soccer. I assume their plans will be for something in the 30,000 seat range and will be a largely mixed-use district or extension of Bricktown if they go through with this site (which I think would be amazing).
They could also potentially fill it with high school championship games for Football, Soccer, etc. or even music events.

And don't forget that the population within downtown OKC and it's related districts should only continue to increase as more housing becomes available. And then there's the Wheeler District, Strawberry Fields, possibly. So, there will be a large local population to draw from that could make or break a venue like this.

But then again, the Ford (Peak) Center never needed a robust downtown population to thrive. So look at that aspect as a double positive.

30,000 is huge for a SSS.

Kansas City's doesn't even hold 19k for soccer and that's one of the top venues in the country for soccer

30,000 is huge for a SSS.

Kansas City's doesn't even hold 19k for soccer and that's one of the top venues in the country for soccer

Yea, I didn't even look into the averages, just going off of speculation and information within the thread.

A smaller stadium would probably play even better for OKC.

But when only 20,000 fans are there, it seems waaaaaay too big. Think of what most college spring games look like. Attendance will probably be less than that. In 2015, OU had 43,000 people at the spring game, a stadium of 85,000 people, so right around half. OSU had 16,000 in a stadium of 66,000. It could be depressing to see 25-30% of the stadium full every game, even though it there are a lot of people, it is just proportionately.
Okay, I guess that makes sense then. I do wonder what Stl is gonna do with their football stadium though.

Not to derail this thread, but that doesn't seem to make a lot of sense for St. Louis. They've got a football stadium that no one's using. Could that not be refitted for soccer? Or are there plans for them to get another NFL team? Otherwise it seems silly to build another stadium when that one is sitting empty.


MLS stadium needs to be an outdoor stadium and Stl has a dome for football. It is actually part of their convention center and I was reading in the same article that the dome is actually busier now since football is no longer played there. I guess when football was there they couldn't schedule that many conventions.

I seriously hope this goes through soccer is one of my favorite sports to watch.

The last of those stragglers (I think) is DC United who is finally opening their own SSS.

The Seattle Sounders use CenturyLink Field, which is also home to the Seattle Seahawks. That said, CenturyLink was designed to meet FIFA sight line requirements and qualifies as a soccer stadium as well as a football stadium. There is also the New England Revolution, but I'm not very familiar with them and Gillette Stadium. I do know they have been trying for awhile to get their own soccer specific stadium.

The Seattle Sounders use CenturyLink Field, which is also home to the Seattle Seahawks. That said, CenturyLink was designed to meet FIFA sight line requirements and qualifies as a soccer stadium as well as a football stadium. There is also the New England Revolution, but I'm not very familiar with them and Gillette Stadium. I do know they have been trying for awhile to get their own soccer specific stadium.

That's right forgot those two. Seattle is the only one that does it right. NE plays soccer when the lines are on the field for football, very HS of a pro team. Also, Seattle can at least fill half of CenturyLink so it doesn't look too bad.

If a soccer stadium does get built here, it would be cool if it incorporated a stage to serve as an outdoor venue.

The new Mercedes stadium in Atlanta will host both the Falcons and Atlanta United FC. pretty incredible stadium. they have drop down panels for upper seating for MLS games to give more intimate feel and not empty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZriJc0Wwag

The new Mercedes stadium in Atlanta will host both the Falcons and Atlanta United FC. pretty incredible stadium. they have drop down panels for upper seating for MLS games to give more intimate feel and not empty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZriJc0Wwag

It's going to be an incredible stadium.

That's right forgot those two. Seattle is the only one that does it right. NE plays soccer when the lines are on the field for football, very HS of a pro team. Also, Seattle can at least fill half of CenturyLink so it doesn't look too bad.

Yeah, Seattle is one of a kind as far as soccer in the United States goes. They've recorded over 65,000 a couple of times against their PNW rival, the Portland Timbers, and averaged over 42,000 for the 2016 season, which was actually a decrease from the 2015 season.

20K seems about right for OKC, im just concerned if we can support it long term. Soccer is growing still, but have we reached that point in OKC? Granted, if it's MLS, we'll see an upswing in attendance like any city sees from minor to major.

If you're curious about size, think about UCO's stadium. It's about 10K, mostly on the home side. Remember, it was SUPPOSED to be the city's soccer stadium (thankfully that fell through.....all the way the eff in Edmond) because the renovations stopped halfway through. They were going to add another side to double it up to 20 and add the roof cover. So basically think of a Wantland Stadium with both sides with the same size stands and you've got it. It's really a good size place for all kinds of events. As long as you've got sufficient SURFACE parking for trucks/semis/etc. One thing i'm thinking of is marching band contests :)

20K seems about right for OKC, im just concerned if we can support it long term. Soccer is growing still, but have we reached that point in OKC? Granted, if it's MLS, we'll see an upswing in attendance like any city sees from minor to major.


As we all know, corporate sponsors and partners are a big deal with professional sports teams. Having said that, in a perfect world, OKC could stand to gain a couple more Fortune 500 companies to help drive the MLS to choose OKC as an expansion market.

Fan attendance is another matter and I also wonder if OKC could support it long term. Two pro franchises in a metro area under 2 million is honestly an undertaking.

As we all know, corporate sponsors and partners are a big deal with professional sports teams. Having said that, in a perfect world, OKC could stand to gain a couple more Fortune 500 companies to help drive the MLS to choose OKC as an expansion market.

Fan attendance is another matter and I also wonder if OKC could support it long term. Two pro franchises in a metro area under 2 million is honestly an undertaking.


KC has three and they are right around 2 mil. OKC could support NBA and MLS IMO with no problem.

KC has three and they are right around 2 mil. OKC could support NBA and MLS IMO with no problem.

Kansas City has a longer history with professional sports, though. The Chiefs and Royals have been there since the 60s I believe.

The metro is currently at 2.15 million and the CSA at 2.4 million. So, still a ways more than OKC. Kansas City is among a couple handfuls (if that much) of cities with 2-3 million metro (and less) with 2 or more professional franchises. There's a decent pool to research and it's been a while since I've dived in. Off the top of my head:

KC
Charlotte
New Orleans
Portland (they have MLS right?)
Indianapolis
Minneapolis

I'm not going to get into a measuring game since some people tend to try and read between lines, but I'm only saying supporting two major league franchises might be a little harder than we believe.

MLS isn't quite in the same category as other pro franchises though.

20K seems about right for OKC, im just concerned if we can support it long term. Soccer is growing still, but have we reached that point in OKC? Granted, if it's MLS, we'll see an upswing in attendance like any city sees from minor to major.

20,000 for a soccer stadium in OKC? Taft holds 7,500, and the Energy average around 5,000...

20,000 for a soccer stadium in OKC? Taft holds 7,500, and the Energy average around 5,000...

There's a big difference between the league the Energy are in now and the MLS. A lot more people will be interested in going to games just because it is MLS than are interested in going right now.

More people will be interested, yes. Four times the number of people? KC's stadium is a good comparison, which holds 18 in a bigger market with more pro sports. 15k here would be reasonably ambitious.

IIRC we will not build a 20K stadium outright. We will build a <10K stadium that is expandable to 20K.

I read a study that indicated that a city needs about a million people to support each pro sports team. Cities that tend to have less than 1 million people per sports team become oversaturated. However, I would think that you could get away with less than 1 million number for a MLS team.

MLS is in no way on the same par with the Fab four sports (MLB, NFL, NBA, NFL). OKC's projected population (1.4 million --2020) along with the booming population inside the CORE will take our city to a next level.

Salt Lake City (1.25 million pop.,) has its MLS franchise in Sandy, Utah, a suburb of SLC. Kansas City, Missouri's franchise is located in nearby Kansas City, KS (Children's Mercy Park).


http://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/r960-d7bb8977ae5adc166349febc299b445e.jpg

OKC's Producer's Coop Mill site will provide a downtown stadium with an awesome view of the skyline; something Sporting Kansas City, Real Salt Lake & Dallas (Frisco) can't duplicate.

Nearby Bricktown has the quality amenities that will bring out the best of OKC's soccer community, a clear advantage over Taft Stadium area. OKC continues to increase covered parking inside the Core and the future convention center complex (2020) will put us in a great position to secure an MLS franchise.

Our best gauge begins now, we have only one minor league soccer franchise in our metro. Funk-McLaughlin will start out with a 10,000-seat stadium for USL Energy FC that can be quickly expanded to accommodate 25,000 to 30,000. Our city can initially help with the infrastructure and roads to accommodate a future venue of this magnitude. There are many events that can be staged downtown.

City of OKC should take more interest in getting this project to fruition. Would like to see the state high school 6A & 5A playoffs moved back to OKC area from Tulsa's 30,000-seat Chapman Stadium.

Anything to get rid of the eyesore of the coop. And I think having HS playoffs there is a stellar idea.

None of those cities have a population that is 17% Hispanic like OKC.

Around 1990 when Nashville acquired the Titans (giving the city two teams) their population was right around 1.3 million. Roughly the same size as OKC is right now. Since that day the city has boomed for various reasons. The second sport is the key. As long as it is relatively affordable then it can be a success.

I honestly think we're going to be late to the party. I've followed this situation really close. You've got others cities breaking ground or in the final design phases while we're still trying to clean up the land. There's 13 cities right now vying for an expansion team, with OKC and Louisville being the smallest. Its an uphill battle but hopeful.

I think it will fly with corporate backing and they can always run ticket deals. The stadium would also offer a good outdoor venue for a concert here and there.

I honestly believe OKC can make this happen. Sports is big here in Oklahoma and I know if we make it expandable when soccer gets bigger here and not 20,000 seats to start with this will be a huge success.