The last group had planned on a big shopping, big box development on the land...with a residential component. I saw the original conceptual plans. It would have been decent. But now...who knows. I honestly think they are afraid to start sinking test wells and digging for soil samples.

Maybe just pave over everything and make it a mega parking lot since there are a lot of people who love parking lots.

Maybe just pave over everything and make it a mega parking lot since there are a lot of people who love parking lots.

I know you're being sarcastic--good humor, brought a chuckle to begin my day.

We all want to see more development with new and existing firms expanding and renovating their properties. Nice new towers and buildings that fill up those empty lots in the core.

You don't want to underestimate the 'value' of parking until you have to venture downtown and can't find a decent place to park. There's a drafty looking garage (good scene for being mugged) south of St. Joseph's Old Cathedral where I wouldn't use the restroom (park my buns) let alone park a vehicle.

Parking garages are just what they are; don't get me wrong, it would be nice if all garages could have nice store-fronts and retail strip development that doesn't look like your typical bland open spore garages. It would be nice if the garages are dressed up like your regular buildings.

^^did you just get back from cannacon?

^^did you just get back from cannacon?

I wish, my lungs were damaged from second-hand cigarette & cigar smoke. Non smoker all my life--but you reap the adverse devastation from the habits of the company you keep.

Too bad they weren't allowed to give out samples; they would still be evacuating people from the expo.

Three large, "transformative" projects, still in planning, nonetheless made progress the first half of the year.

Oklahoman, Business section, July 27, 2019

Transformation

Chisholm Creek's next phase south of Memorial between Pennsylvania and Western, will include two large, mixed-use buildings with ground-floor retail, office above, a courtyard, hotel, and dinner-and-a movie concept, according to renderings released by the developers.

Penn Central — recently renamed "Oak” — the "ambitious" high-end retailoffice-residential project at Pennsylvania and Northwest Expressway got Planning Commission approval.

The Cotton Mill project marketed by Sooner Development, just southeast of downtown, is waiting to see if a soccer/multiuse stadium will be included in MAPS 4; it could anchor the retail-entertainment project.

"None of these projects have broken ground," Price Edwards said, but all "would take Oklahoma City retail to a new level."

Chisholm Creek: "according to renderings released by the developers", should read "as reported by OKCTalk in May".

Chisholm Creek: "according to renderings released by the developers", should read "as reported by OKCTalk in May".

Penn Central should be the same.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/coop012520a.jpg

http://www.producersdistrict.com/

There's an animation from Skyline Inc on here that I've never seen before. It looks much like the aquarium and soccer stadium videos that Pete has posted on youtube but this one shows what a development without the aquarium or soccer stadium would look like.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/coop050720e.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/coop050720c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/coop050720a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/coop050720b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/coop050720d.jpg

It looks like this could be the next Belle Isle Station and Walmart shopping center.

^

I believe that video (and first image I captured from it) is old. It shows a canal extension and none of the buildings depicted match the site plans in the marketing materials.

I'll find out more, but I believe this was the general layout proposed before the aquarium and soccer stadium came into the picture, and now they've gone back to pretty much the original plan, which I understood to look much like what is shown on the site plans.

I'll know more soon.

^

I believe that video (and first image I captured from it) is old. It shows a canal extension and none of the buildings depicted match the site plans in the marketing materials.

I'll find out more, but I believe this was the general layout proposed before the aquarium and soccer stadium came into the picture, and now they've gone back to pretty much the original plan, which I understood to look much like what is shown on the site plans.

I'll know more soon.

Gotcha makes sense. Is the canal extension off the table?

Those site plans are just terrible. What a nightmare.

Gotcha makes sense. Is the canal extension off the table?

I think it was always just an idea.

I find it darkly humorous that the connection up to Oklahoma is at the old location before the re-relocation.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/coop050720d.jpg

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ImperturbableMemorableGar-size_restricted.gif

I don't hate it. It has office towers with height to help expand the skyline, and over 500 residential units.

However, this is all pie in the sky, since it is probably over a decade from being realized.

Even Lower Bricktown

Edit: Just discovered that Lower Bricktown has a website with a hype video about its plentiful parking lots. You can't make this stuff up. https://lowerbricktown.com/

Reclaimed Bricktown.

My understanding is that the zoo was considering going through with the aquarium (even after getting shut out of MAPS4) before the virus problems.

But now, they've lost a ton of revenue in what is their peak time and that is just millions that are gone forever.

Well hopefully they will reconsider down the line.

Well hopefully they will reconsider down the line.

I think they are going forward without them and the retail section -- where the aquarium was planned -- is probably the first to get built.

I think they are going forward without them and the retail section -- where the aquarium was planned -- is probably the first to get built.

Eventually the zoo is going to have to either get rid of the aquarium or build a new one, no? So the choice will come down to building downtown or within the current park maybe where the current one is at.

I think they are going forward without them and the retail section -- where the aquarium was planned -- is probably the first to get built.
Seems short-sighted, but we are, apparently, discussing Lowest Bricktown.

Seems short-sighted, but we are, apparently, discussing Lowest Bricktown.

I wish I had the kind of money to buy prime real estate for millions of dollars, then sit on it for a couple of decades while the city invests hundreds of millions of dollars nearby then build a cookie cutter low density development. That must be nice.

I'll have more info on the plans here soon.

The latest site plan is different than what is shown above.

I'll have more info on the plans here soon.

The latest site plan is different than what is shown above.

Good different or bad different, in your opinion?

Good different or bad different, in your opinion?

A bit better.

So i'm bored so wanted to take a shot of designing this as an actual urban walkable site appropriate for the location and not whatever "Belle Isle Suburban Lifestyle Center TM" the above is trying to accomplish. Here is my 5 min mock up:

16040
16041

Basically just trying to recreate the grid as best as possible. focused the entire area on a green belt pedestrian corridor lined with small walkable main street style retail that connects to the already existing river walk to the east. The rest is larger scale mixed use residential and office with a few parking areas around the outskirts (olive green)

What these developers need to do is focus on urban sustainability. They should look at places like Nordhavn Copenhagen for case studies. I think people in OKC are ready for a more pedestrian friendly area.
16042 16043

Just build the Wheeler District here also.

Just build the Wheeler District here also.
I'd be on board with this or the Copenhagen layout. Or really anything walkable.

How much would a canal extension through this area that turns north and connects to the original portion cost? Seems to me the cons of such a plan are vastly outweigh by the pros. Particularly if the zoo can find the funds to build the aquarium here. Those two together would be game changers. But even without the aquarium, a canal extension would be huge.

How much would a canal extension through this area that turns north and connects to the original portion cost? Seems to me the cons of such a plan are vastly outweigh by the pros. Particularly if the zoo can find the funds to build the aquarium here. Those two together would be game changers. But even without the aquarium, a canal extension would be huge.

Hoping the zoo can revisit plans for the aquarium; the 1 mile Bricktown canal cost $13 million when originally built as apart of the MAPS I projects. The City spent $16 million for land acquisition for all projects in original MAPS; that's probably why the backers of the Coop site offered to sell the city 15 acres as a convention center site for $41.8 million, :rolleyes: sweetening the pitch by agreeing to contribute $3 million to extend Bricktown Canal through their property.

So, that $3 million extension would probably cost the city $1.5 million if OKC partnered with the mill site to extend the canal.

BTW, couldn't we offer some of that MAPS 3 surplus money to help the zoo get the aquarium started...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R91528Z3frM

BTW, couldn't we offer some of that MAPS 3 surplus money to help the zoo get the aquarium started...


You'd think so. The money this city wastes on a regular basis could easily build the canal extension in its entirety. Continuously not only propping up but expanding the boathouse boondoggle, installing and immediately destroying the intersection north of here at the Uhaul building, repaving streets for P180 then ripping them out to put in the streetcar, etc. It's a compete joke at this point.

Exactly, Grant! There's no reason the city couldn't help fund an aquarium to really give this area a gem that people will definitely visit.

Just build the Wheeler District here also.

This is where it always should have been. Maybe then the prices they are charging would make sense.

There could be a reluctance for individuals to live on a former brownfield. Especially if the housing cost is a premium.

There could be a reluctance for individuals to live on a former brownfield. Especially if the housing cost is a premium.

The Steel Yard was a Brownsfield project. It was pretty contaminated itself.

wasn't the dowtnown airport a brownfield as well?

There could be a reluctance for individuals to live on a former brownfield. Especially if the housing cost is a premium.

i think if the site is properly rehabbed, other factors will play more heavily into the success or failure of the project.

also:
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTDolTwVerzoSxTcAiUmMMCO5-Ln1WRvJTqzooOw36vY9Lmpi8C&usqp=CAU

Something that they can't really change is that it's landlocked by some pretty big psychological boundaries. The highway to the south and the railroad to the west are huge ones but honestly, the Boulevard kind of acts like one as well. Access to this site is very poor and I don't know if there's a viable way to do anything about it.

wasn't the dowtnown airport a brownfield as well?

One of the hangers was a brownsfield cleanup. But not the whole site.

Something that they can't really change is that it's landlocked by some pretty big psychological boundaries. The highway to the south and the railroad to the west are huge ones but honestly, the Boulevard kind of acts like one as well. Access to this site is very poor and I don't know if there's a viable way to do anything about it.

ODOT seriously hindered this site with the complete failure that is the boulevard. It creates a giant boundary that is on par with the interstate it replaced. complete garbage all the way around.

Auto access to this site is going to be very restricted with extremely limited Ingress & Egress. It is yet one more reason why shoving a giant parking oriented strip mall parking lot "lifestyle center" makes zero sense.

A human scale, walkable area would mitigate this logistical nightmare and could easily take advantage of the close walking proximity to scissortail park, the riverwalk (with easy scenic access to bricktown), and the Oklahoma River,

Or we can all set in a Penn Square Mall at Christmas style traffic situation every single day for the unique opportunity to go to the new "urban" belle isle parking lot.

Right-click to open hi-res version in new tab or window.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/coop052320b.jpg

I believe the remaining structure here took some major damage over the weekend from a fire.

Just speculation, but Friday night was particularly cold and it would not surprise me if some transients built a fire.

^

That's a fair bet.

I'll get by there and take some photos; hopefully it can be salvaged.

They should work with world class developers, Cordish Companies, or Jamestown, for example, to develop this area.

They should work with world class developers, Cordish Companies, or Jamestown, for example, to develop this area.
Would Cordish even be interested after Lower Bricktown?

i passed by on saturday and wondered if the damage was due to a fire or demolition work.





I believe the remaining structure here took some major damage over the weekend from a fire.

Just speculation, but Friday night was particularly cold and it would not surprise me if some transients built a fire.

I can't believe I'm writing this, but I'm actually OK with it sitting as it is for right now. OKC has a lot of irons in the fire...Bricktown struggling to get some critical mass back of restaurants/nightlife, Midtown hopping along but still in a state where it's got lots of room to grow, same with Automobile Alley and Film Row, we've got Scissortail Park coming to life but lots of available land to the west. The Innovation District, while a different animal altogether, is in play. Cox Center too. I just don't think OKC needs to try to create another "district" a la Cordish that will be in competition. I'm also not entirely sure that these master planned retail/entertainment districts won't start to be dated like malls in the next decade or so. Let's figure out what the "next" thing is and be innovative early with that prime land/location. We don't know what that is yet.

Somebody pointed out that the structure was burning/smolderling in one of my convention center photos.

I've cropped it (taken 1/8) and added another photo from a couple of weeks earlier. Looks pretty bad.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/coop010821a.jpg


HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/coop122520a.jpg

Has any thought been given, especially with the lack of access and somewhat self contained nature of the area, that the city approach deep pocketed philanthropic types and design a community solution for the homeless / unemployed / transient population? Full on housing, work training, joint venture with staffing companies and aid communities, and make a go at a social construct that we haven't seen since the great depression. Not a "work camp" but a "Relaunch Facility" for those who are in dire need of a second or third chance. Take the opportunity to not just do an "economic development zone", but a Human Development Zone. Sounds kind of flakey and "socialist"... but why not?

This land is worth $60+ million. If I'm understanding you correctly, that idea won't happen at this location. This may be the most expensive piece of unused land in all of OKC. But you make a good suggestion, but I doubt anyone jumps on that grenade.

Aren't they trying to get that type of thing ("Relaunch facility") going over on General Pershing Blvd/Main St. where some of those types of entities are already located?

Have a friend I use to take to North Care https://www.northcare.com/, there are a number of crisis intervention and behavioral modification facilities in the area (General Pershing). It's a sad sight to see with people walking the streets looking like zombies. They can't prescribe many of them take-home prescriptions; they are administered a daily or whatever prescribed dose.

Visit the area whenever you get the chance; can't really describe the hurt you will see. Will say there are many new structures built within the last decades--adds much to the community.

Have a friend I use to take to North Care https://www.northcare.com/, there are a number of crisis intervention and behavioral modification facilities in the area (General Pershing). It's a sad sight to see with people walking the streets looking like zombies. They can't prescribe many of them take-home prescriptions; they are administered a daily or whatever prescribed dose.

Visit the area whenever you get the chance; can't really describe the hurt you will see. Will say there are many new structures built within the last decades--adds much to the community.

We live at NW 36th/May and drive down that way to get to the CBD, Deep Deuce, Bricktown, etc., and yes, very painful and sad, but like you say, they have built new buildings, and if they can get all the organizations working together in a cohesive whole like they're planning to do (I think Palomar is part of that), it will be a good thing to help alleviate at least some of it.

Have a friend I use to take to North Care https://www.northcare.com/, there are a number of crisis intervention and behavioral modification facilities in the area (General Pershing). It's a sad sight to see with people walking the streets looking like zombies. They can't prescribe many of them take-home prescriptions; they are administered a daily or whatever prescribed dose.

Visit the area whenever you get the chance; can't really describe the hurt you will see. Will say there are many new structures built within the last decades--adds much to the community.

Adds to the community when you don't live or work in the area, like I have for almost 40 years. The concentration of psychiatric in patient hospital (with shielded, police and ambulance unloading area); mental health services center; low-barrier homeless shelter (that means no sobriety commitment-the only one in OKC, IIRC); Positive Tomorrows elementary school for homeless children; ReMerge training center for women leaving, or diverting from, the prison system; CityCare homeless housing (with a sober living commitment); ASTEC Charter School; AND the 15 plus acre field belonging to Acme Brick that abuts the Union Pacific right of way (which creates a wooded no man's land) all within 1,000 feet of each other creates a concentration of challenged humanity.

Having said all that...I don't feel any more unsafe or at risk that I was before. Common sense and street smarts have kept me, my property and vehicles safe. And my business is semi-industrial any way.

I get hit up for money at 23rd & Penn or 10th and Portland a lot more than I do at 10th and May.