I went into my local JC Penny last week for the first time in at least 8 years and it was like stepping into a time machine. They just need to gut that whole store down to the steel skeleton and rebuild it.

Here are a couple of things I noticed:
1) Mannequins at the entrance were nude. Being nude wasn't the problem, the fact that their prime selling space wasn't selling anything is the problem.
2) The ceiling was very low and consisted of those 1980's acoustic false ceiling tiles.
3) The display cases were from the 1970s and bathed in yellow light which made everything look dingy
4) The escalators to the second floor were completely enclosed in a drywall tunnel which blocked sight lines, made the store look smaller, and prevented people on the escalator from viewing any merchandise.

Anyhow, I bought my watch battery so I probably wont be back in the store for at least 4 more years.
When I redid the Midland (TX) Park Mall for Simon properties I so wanted to rip all those massive, heavy and low ceilings out of there, that was so popular in the late 70's when that mall was built. We didn't have the budget for that, we ended up painting them all white instead of the dark tan/brown that they were. We replaced all the flooring (limestone look tile) and did new entries. It did make quite a difference.

...but all Wall Street cares about is growth, not long term health or viability of companies. The entire "investment" culture is all built on pump and dump and profit take on the transaction.

Correct. An extremely profitable company could make the same amount of profit as the previous year yet the stock would fall through the floor because there wasn't an increase. Everyone has to admit that isn't sustainable long term. Once a retail chain reaches maturity, it has to adapt or it will go by the wayside. Think about names like Circuit City, CompUSA, Border's, Montgomery Ward, Service Merchandise, etc, etc, etc. Even K-Mart, which ruled the '80s for discount shopping, is going by the wayside (Does OKC even have a K-Mart anymore?) All of those retailers had times where it looked like the golden days would never end.

The only time that I remember K-Mart in OKC was after they bought out Venture, there may have been one in Yukon or El Reno. I know there was one in Tulsa and Lawton. We still have a few open here in the Denver area, i Have been to it once or twice.

The only time that I remember K-Mart in OKC was after they bought out Venture, there may have been one in Yukon or El Reno. I know there was one in Tulsa and Lawton. We still have a few open here in the Denver area, i Have been to it once or twice.

OKC used to have one on S Shields and I-240 and another at Sooner Rd and Reno in Midwest City. I don't know about the northside but I am sure there were some.

K-Mart is a perfect example of a retailer that has not adapted to change and thus been squeezed out of the marketplace. Nobody needs K-Mart when you have Wal-Mart and Target. Do you have a need to ever go? I went once in Charlotte and didn't buy anything and there was virtually nobody in the store other than employees. I think it's too late to save the store. It maybe could have been saved if they would have done a brand refresh in the early 2000s and distinguished themselves from Wal-Mart and Target.

Here is an interesting article about K-Mart and there are some telling pictures at the bottom of the article that show what K-Mart is today. I think you could apply the same thing to Sears for the most part.

http://beluscapitaladvisors.com/2013/11/04/tragic-death-kmart-happening-right-front-eyes/

The only time that I remember K-Mart in OKC was after they bought out Venture, there may have been one in Yukon or El Reno. I know there was one in Tulsa and Lawton. We still have a few open here in the Denver area, i Have been to it once or twice.

I believe Shawnee still has a Kmart.

I do think its possible for a chain to find a sweet spot between the two models in which they don't go too crazy with store openings to maximize the amount of profitable locations. In addition, unprofitable stores would be closed.

Part of the problem is once a company is public that encourages to CEO to keep a growth model if at all plausible, once they you lose an evaluation as a growth stock, it's price gets hammered. Which also negatively impacts it's ability to get new capital and erodes company moral, which was often declining for a long time before that.

I believe Shawnee still has a Kmart.

This is correct. Also, there was one in Edmond for a while in the late 90s (former Venture). That spot is now the Academy on Broadway.

The only time that I remember K-Mart in OKC was after they bought out Venture, there may have been one in Yukon or El Reno. I know there was one in Tulsa and Lawton. We still have a few open here in the Denver area, i Have been to it once or twice.

There was never one in Yukon, I know there was one in Clinton (granted not exactly the OKC area).

There was a Kmart for only a couple of years around 1999-2001 (???) at NW 36th & May where Pole Position is now. They closed a ton of Kmart stores during bankruptcy reorganization and it was gone.

On edit I have found an old story about the nationwide closings which show the Oklahoma stores (including the 36th & May store)
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2002/03/08/list-kmart-stores-to-be-closed/

Here's a pic of the closed Oklahoma stores listed from the story above.

http://i.imgur.com/JPTHF94.jpg

Kmart shows nine locations still open in Oklahoma.
http://www.kmart.com/stores/oklahoma.html

The stores didn't close until around 2003. I actually worked at the MWC one just before the closings. Terrible company to work for. Bad management (store managers that were drunk or couldn't even manage to figure out how to schedule people), bad supply chain management (took 2 weeks to get an order for stock), bad treatment of employees (told us we were replaceable in 24 hours), etc. But all for a store, as said here, had no market. No one went to KMart unless they lived closer to it than Wal-Mart or Target. It was an in-betweener and really has fallen below Wal-Mart. Places like Shawnee and Clinton that didn't have a Target still attracted KMart customers because the alternative wasn't there.

And the absolute worst idea possible, happened. They merged with Sears....another bankrupt store with an inability to create a modern place for itself.

JCP at least has tried to reinvest in itself. They closed crappy locations and built new ones. For OKC that meant tossing the one at Crossroads and going to Moore/MWC. Both of those stores are nice. Although it does feel like you're walking inside the Kolhs next door...no real difference. The "no sales, discounter" thing was idiotic and doomed to failure so I'm glad they got over that one quickly. But i'll say this, the brands you carry in your store are what define how you are going to survive. Those brands have to balance both an adult contemporary and youth market. If you try to stick to old models, you're going to retain your elderly market, but guess what....those people die more quickly. I hate to make it sound harsh, but it's just true. A brand can't afford to be loyal to an aging population if they want to survive. Next you have to decide if you're a discounter or a middle-market store. Kohl's is what Penny's was...100% middle market. Penny's is on the lower end of that middle market, but I would still say they are most definitely NOT discount. That's Marshalls (probably down the street in the same shopping center). The Ross to your Old Navy.

As for stores, they have missed an opportunity in places like Quail for reinvesting in the store. Look at places like McDonalds. How many times have the chain-owned stores been torn down and rebuilt over the last 15 years? The tax advantages that come from that are realized relatively quickly and you can guarantee they wouldn't be doing it if they didn't think there would be some sort of return on that. It's that constant work of reinventing yourself. Heck, look at Wendys!! That's a company that was teetering on collapse after Dave Thomas died and they've managed to come back strong. If you haven't been in a new store yet, it's VERY different and actually very nice. The new McDonalds...meh. They feel small to me. For them, the calculus was focused on more drive through than dine-in. Not for me, but apparently I wasn't who they were focusing on LOL.

The JCP in Fayetteville was completely redone and nicely but the work was done as the Apple guy's pricing strategy backfired and they reduced lots of SKUs. Sears has misfired on the softlines time and again. They'd buy a Lands End and squandered it, they'd great decent names to license and it was crap quality. Heck, all Kenmore is a collection of products branded for sears by other manufactures. Lowes and Home Depots push into appliances along with Best Buy hurt bigtime. Some one mentioned going hardlines only, That's a maybe and going softlines only for KMarts. Lord those stores need extensive capital investments. When did anyone see one remodeled in the past two decades?

Oh, on Wendys, this is a newer one
http://www.hospitalitydesign.com/hospitalitydesign/images/Wendys_Traditional_VirginaBeach_Interior2_RD.jpg

Heck, have you seen the Sonics that conform to walkability zoning requirements with outdoor fireplaces
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-gwxXFWf17Wk/TlL-FPtGvAI/AAAAAAAAHfg/6v8MRrspvwI/s400/Sonic.JPG

Sears is wasting Land's End away after Land's End wasted their purchase of Willis & Geiger. The (re)spin off of Land's End is probably too late I am afraid. The few K-Marts that are (still) open here in Denver look like they haven't been touched since they were built in the 70's.

They have done a good job with the new Wendy's, quite a few here have been redone.

The K-Mart is Shawnee is definitely a time travel experience back to the 80's. It makes Wall's Bargain Center look upscale lol

Pretty spot on story printed early last year about K-Mart.

Is it time to close Kmart?- MSN Money (http://money.msn.com/now/post.aspx?post=2f83065d-d47d-4135-b281-f0b607e1a306)

There is only room for one retail bottom dweller and Walmart has that market cornered. In the race to the bottom Walmart already won. Everyone else should give up.

There is only room for one retail bottom dweller and Walmart has that market cornered. In the race to the bottom Walmart already won. Everyone else should give up.

I find Walmart stocked much better than our local Targets and I hate shopping at Walmart. Our Targets look barren for half the year. It's the same back home in Memphis.

I find Walmart stocked much better than our local Targets and I hate shopping at Walmart. Our Targets look barren for half the year. It's the same back home in Memphis.

Targets are better staffed though. I can't stand Wal-Mart because there are usually only a few registers open in the entire store, meaning long waits to check out.

Targets are better staffed though. I can't stand Wal-Mart because there are usually only a few registers open in the entire store, meaning long waits to check out.

Almost without fail if you ask employees at Target where something is, they stop and take you there. At WalMart, you're lucky to get a grunt and a finger pointed in a general direction.

The K-Mart is Shawnee is definitely a time travel experience back to the 80's. It makes Wall's Bargain Center look upscale lol

I went to Kmart in Lawton and I felt like I was back in 1991 and there was hardly anybody in there on a Saturday. I would figure they would update that store especially considering the fact that Lawton has a Target now. I wouldn't be shocked if that Kmart is on the next round of closings.

I can't even tell you the last time I was a in Kmart. The last time I remember being in one was 6 years ago but I didn't buy anything. The last Kmart purchase I remember was a shovel in 1996. I bought a belt from Sears about a month ago.

JTF...you crack me up


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Sears Layoffs Top 6,000, Closing Over 110 Outlets - Sears Holdings Corporation (NASDAQ:SHLD) | Seeking Alpha (http://seekingalpha.com/article/2587065-sears-layoffs-top-6000-closing-over-110-outlets)

I think the writing is on the wall for their department stores as well as K-Mart. As has been discussed, both are a victim of their own complacency and basically being squeezed out of the market.

One of my crappy college jobs was at Sears. They never put any money into their stores, in either decor or upkeep. The mens employee bathroom had some issues, so they just locked it and labeled the women's as unisex. That was a decade ago, and I know a current employee. It's still that way. They also changed their commission plan quarterly, and somehow, you always made less money under the "new and improved" plan.

Sears is closing at the Arrowhead mall in Muskogee leaving that mall empty and apparently closing in Enid as well.

I wonder how much longer Heritage Park Mall has.

Sears has also been borrowing cash from the CEO's hedge fund. That can't hold out, their suppliers will bail.

I wonder how much longer Heritage Park Mall has.


The mall is closed. Has been for quite some time. But the Sears usually has quite a few customers.

The Sears at HPM is pretty busy compared to the Sears in South OKC on weekends.

The Sears at HPM is pretty busy compared to the Sears in South OKC on weekends.

I can see that. The next OKC store to close will probably be the standalone one at S 44th and (Western?).

I can see that. The next OKC store to close will probably be the standalone one at S 44th and (Western?).
Sears owns the properties at 44th & S Western and Heritage Park Mall. They might entertain offers for them but I doubt they would close them just to close them. I would think neither property is ripe for development but HPM would have a slight advantage.

I wonder how much longer Heritage Park Mall has.

I believe someone said that Tinker was pretty much the main safety net for that store, that it did enough volume through it alone that it might be the last one to turn out the lights in the metro, though at some point they might find a cheaper location in an ex-walmart or something to continue those operations.

I wonder how long the 44th & Western store has untill Sears decides to pull the plug?

That one is usually doing pretty well on the weekends too.

Sears is just dead man walking. Too bad...love the Crafstman brand.

Sears is just dead man walking. Too bad...love the Crafstman brand.

They'll sell the brands off. You'll be able to get craftsman in Walmart or Lowes probably.

Sears is just dead man walking. Too bad...love the Crafstman brand.

IMO, in recents years (actually easily a decade or more) the Craftsman brand has been in name only. I've tried a few of their high end products - like a riding mower and some saws. All were junk. The customer service to get the craftsman riding mower serviced was abysmal - "Wait 2 weeks for a part" "give us 4-5 more days to instal it." Oh, and you had to wait a week just to get it diagnosed. In the mean time you either have to own a backup mower or pay someone else to mow for you.

I remember when a Craftsman push mower weighed a ton and was actually made of metal and lasted 30 years. Not anymore.

I go in to the Sears at 44 and Western - but only to check out the clearance items and returns in the lawn and garden area.

You can already purchase Craftsman products at Kmart, Ace and Fastenal, among others.

You can already purchase Craftsman products at Kmart, Ace and Fastenal, among others.

The Crafstman name died a long time ago. They've licensed it out to whatever garbage overseas vendors can press out the tools or whatever.

I had a nice, fairly old (but not ancient) Crafstman socket wrench, and the ratchet mechanism failed in one direction - just seized up. So I took it over to Ace, asked them if they honored the Crafstman warranty, and they did, so I found the comparable replacement - and what a piece of junk. The reverse mechanism is a plastic switch that flexes just from normal direction change and will almost certainly break, to say nothing of how the internals are probably built - and I'm only a casual garage fixer-upper home not-a-mechanic type. I can't fathom a day-to-day type relying on them for professional work. Just flimsy from the word go. You can get much better quality tools over at Harbor Frieght - even if they're not world class, I think most of their stuff is better-built than the Craftsman stuff these days. Really sad.

That's too bad about Craftsman. Guess I didn't know that because I'm still using my tools from 20-30 years ago and they are still great.

Craftsman still sells good stuff. But they also sell junk. Generally, you get what you pay for.

/uses lots of tools
//is VERY hard on tools

IMO, in recents years (actually easily a decade or more) the Craftsman brand has been in name only. I've tried a few of their high end products - like a riding mower and some saws. All were junk. The customer service to get the craftsman riding mower serviced was abysmal - "Wait 2 weeks for a part" "give us 4-5 more days to instal it." Oh, and you had to wait a week just to get it diagnosed. In the mean time you either have to own a backup mower or pay someone else to mow for you.

I remember when a Craftsman push mower weighed a ton and was actually made of metal and lasted 30 years. Not anymore.

I go in to the Sears at 44 and Western - but only to check out the clearance items and returns in the lawn and garden area.

I had heard by the early 90s not to buy any of their electric items, the hand tool set I got from that era is still my main set.

That's too bad about Craftsman. Guess I didn't know that because I'm still using my tools from 20-30 years ago and they are still great.

Rover,
Like you, I still have my tools but from the mid 60's, so I guess that's about 48 years. I have bought a few things over the years, but most of what I have was pre 1970/
C. T.

The newer stuff isn't all that good unless you know who actually makes it. I have 30 y.o. sockets that I still use and that are better than anything they have now. If I have to find a specialty socket, tool or something I will check Sears but I buy much less there than I used to tool wise.

On the Black Friday sales about 5-6 years ago they had the Craftsman battery tender for 50% off, it was the exact same one as the Deltran battery tender just with a Craftsman sticker on it.

Craftsman still sells good stuff. But they also sell junk. Generally, you get what you pay for.

/uses lots of tools
//is VERY hard on tools

I find their hand tools to still be of good quality. If you want the lifetime warranty (actually only about 20 years) then you'd better keep your receipt.

Its their power tools and mowers I think have really gone downhill.

I don't know if this would be the right place to put it but, J.C. Penney's closing dozens of stores again. That's great news. - Fortune (http://fortune.com/2015/01/08/jcpenney-store-closings/)

Also a lot of teen retailers seem to be doing poorly as well ( DEB is going out of business, Wetseal is closing 2/3 of their stores down, Aeropostale is closing several stores and their stocks are tumbling same with Pacsun, American Eagle and A and F)

I don't know if this would be the right place to put it but, [url=http://fortune.com/2015/01/08/jcpenney-store-closings/]Also a lot of teen retailers seem to be doing poorly as well ( DEB is going out of business, Wetseal is closing 2/3 of their stores down, Aeropostale is closing several stores and their stocks are tumbling same with Pacsun, American Eagle and A and F)

It seems a bit abnormal for teen retailers to be in for more than a ten to fifteen years, yea their are some that do manage to keep themselves viable longer but a lot of them seem like they are riding a trend till it dies.

It seems a bit abnormal for teen retailers to be in for more than a ten to fifteen years, yea their are some that do manage to keep themselves viable longer but a lot of them seem like they are riding a trend till it dies.

American Eagle seems to still be doing alright. Not as good as the mid 2000s but people still shop there. It wouldn't surprise me to see A&F completely gone within the next few years.

It will be interesting to see if that Sears out on 39th Expressway(& Council) gets built in time. Unreal they built a new sears out by Quail Springs to replace the old Sears.

The problem with these standalone sites are they are now destination stores(have to make a specific and intended trip to go there), and not just a "I'll stop by since I'm walking by anyways" or "I'm parked out that ways" like they had going in the malls.

Offshoring their tools was a huge downgrade. Had they kept them made in the USA, they could have stood on their own. Their clothing prices haven't been a bargain in a long time.

Walking into that Von Maur; if one didn't know any better; it FEELS like being in the old Sears. The shoes are even in the same place! How did they manage that? The only difference is not having the tools/appliances on the top floor. Tony Bahama shirts for $80 and $100 really? That mall really needs to get rid of all the kiosk that haunt the mall. Especially that one selling sea salt or whatever they are hawking. Also that marketing firm that haunts the other end of the mall with a person with a clipboard.

I don't know if this would be the right place to put it but, J.C. Penney's closing dozens of stores again. That's great news. - Fortune (http://fortune.com/2015/01/08/jcpenney-store-closings/)


None of the new store closures are in Oklahoma and, while a few are in larger cities, most are in smaller cities.

None of the new store closures are in Oklahoma and, while a few are in larger cities, most are in smaller cities.

Most of the stores are in dead or dying malls. That is a pretty big problem for a lot of retailers.

Most of the stores are in dead or dying malls. That is a pretty big problem for a lot of retailers.

I hadn't heard that. Do you have a link about that information or are you just guessing?

Most are in malls, however.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/15/jc-penney-closing-stores_n_4604436.html

I hadn't heard that. Do you have a link about that information or are you just guessing?

Most are in malls, however.

Here's A List Of The J.C. Penney Stores That Are Closing (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/15/jc-penney-closing-stores_n_4604436.html)

seems like that was brought up in the article linked to in post 165

That mall really needs to get rid of all the kiosk that haunt the mall. Especially that one selling sea salt or whatever they are hawking. Also that marketing firm that haunts the other end of the mall with a person with a clipboard.
Those kiosks bring in an obscene amount of money considering that was all originally unleased space and a minimal investment for the mall company. I was shocked by the pure profit in those when I was doing Simon work.

seems like that was brought up in the article linked to in post 165

You're correct. I overlooked that.

Whelp Disney Store is closing at Quail Springs, Maybe the rumors of H and M taking the middle section of the mall are true.


Especially that one selling sea salt or whatever they are hawking. Also that marketing firm that haunts the other end of the mall with a person with a clipboard.

I agree it gets annoying when you have people with clipboards running around the entire JCP wing of the mall, bugging the crap out of you to take a survey and they apparently pay very little.

Whelp Disney Store is closing at Quail Springs, Maybe the rumors of H and M taking the middle section of the mall are true.


Do you know if they are re-opening at Penn Square or leaving the market entirely? If they are relocating to Penn Square that would fit right in with what was discussed about H&M.

They still have a Disney Store at the Outlet mall.

It seems a bit abnormal for teen retailers to be in for more than a ten to fifteen years, yea their are some that do manage to keep themselves viable longer but a lot of them seem like they are riding a trend till it dies.

In his 60 Minutes interview, Jeff Bezos commented something to the effect of, "every business ends -- you just have to know what to do when your business becomes no longer viable." I suspect that Sears and Penneys (and Von Maur, etc.) will all die out if they do not evolve, and the same goes for the "teen" retailers (DEB, Aeropostale, American Eagle, A&F). I even saw a news article today about how the sun may well be going down on McDonalds in spite of all their recent evolution.
Also, I read once that Disney never had any plans to keep a store anywhere more than five years. Seems like a good way to keep agile and "evolutionable".

Another "popular" clothing retailer is going out of business Body Central going out of business, stores closing this weekend (http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=544669)


Do you know if they are re-opening at Penn Square or leaving the market entirely? If they are relocating to Penn Square that would fit right in with what was discussed about H&M.
They said on the news 9 site that it was leaving QS, there is nothing about one opening at PS yet.