I'm in agreement with guru here. It's too rich for my blood, considering what you get. I'd have to think there would be a tremendous market for cheaper for-sale housing.

Those prices are very high. You can buy in DeepDeuce for average of about ~$225 per sq ft. And that usually includes private parking garages or personal garage. And I don't think anyone would argue against DD being a better "bang for buck" area than the Civic Center is currently.

These civic center flats are work/live right, might justify the higher price point? Or am I thinking of 700 west?

These civic center flats are work/live right, might justify the higher price point? Or am I thinking of 700 west?

You are thinking of 700 west. I don't think they are that bad of a deal considering where they are and what is to come in the future, but I admit it would be a tough sell for me to move down there at this time.

After seeing their other developments, I'm not sure I would sink my family into a 300k-plus mortgage for something that the Bradshaws are building. On the plus side, you do have great access to the jail and police department.

After seeing their other developments, I'm not sure I would sink my family into a 300k-plus mortgage for something that the Bradshaws are building. On the plus side, you do have great access to the jail and police department.

He always worked with Pat Garrett in the past on for sale housing, and I think you can blame a lot of issues on Pat. But yes, I might wait to see what the construction looks like, and see if he does a good job. And while you might be able to buy in Deep Deuce for the marginally less per square foot, I'm not sure there's anything available anywhere else for under $200,00. I think we're all pretty spoiled regarding housing prices here. As areas fill up, prices may rise. We have two 25' lots that sold behind our townhouse, so basically sitting between two alleys, for $190,000.

The great thing about real estate is that it is almost a perfect market; all the buyers and sellers have access to great information and sales and lease prices are completely dictated by supply and demand.

So, these will either sell at those prices or they will come down accordingly; or, as has been the trend, they go to rental units at least for a while.

He always worked with Pat Garrett in the past on for sale housing, and I think you can blame a lot of issues on Pat. But yes, I might wait to see what the construction looks like, and see if he does a good job. And while you might be able to buy in Deep Deuce for the marginally less per square foot, I'm not sure there's anything available anywhere else for under $200,00. I think we're all pretty spoiled regarding housing prices here. As areas fill up, prices may rise. We have two 25' lots that sold behind our townhouse, so basically sitting between two alleys, for $190,000.

I would be fine with under 300k for a decent two bedroom. A quarter million could buy you a two bedroom in Barcelona, on a street with tons of amenities, within walking distance of world-class transit. It seems reasonable to me to offer a small two-bedroom near the jail in OKC in a building with no amenities for this amount or less. These people seem greedy to me, and they are killing demand for for-sale housing in our city. We need some new blood (outsiders) to get this market moving.

The great thing about real estate is that it is almost a perfect market; all the buyers and sellers have access to great information and sales and lease prices are completely dictated by the market.

So, these will either sell at those prices or they will come down accordingly; or, as has been the trend, they go to rental units at least for a while.

This is bad, not good. And name one development that starts out as a rental in this market that has converted to for-sale units. Won't happen.

What a ridiculous jump in cost from the one bed units to the two bed units. This bldg has no amenities. I'm giving up on downtown living in this city.

What jump. The price per sqft is the same.


I would be fine with under 300k for a decent two bedroom. A quarter million could buy you a two bedroom in Barcelona, on a street with tons of amenities, within walking distance of world-class transit. It seems reasonable to me to offer a small two-bedroom near the jail in OKC in a building with no amenities for this amount or less. These people seem greedy to me, and they are killing demand for for-sale housing in our city. We need some new blood (outsiders) to get this market moving.

Please link me this condo in barco?

Our downtown housing is so much less expensive that about any city our size

I would be fine with under 300k for a decent two bedroom. A quarter million could buy you a two bedroom in Barcelona, on a street with tons of amenities, within walking distance of world-class transit. It seems reasonable to me to offer a small two-bedroom near the jail in OKC in a building with no amenities for this amount or less. These people seem greedy to me, and they are killing demand for for-sale housing in our city. We need some new blood (outsiders) to get this market moving.

We've pretty much given up on trying to get inside Rex ES's boundaries, not going to pay over $250 per sq ft for something. It's depressing because we both would like to live down closer to work, but we're kinda down on the old houses (not for us) and it's hard to take that leap that you won't lose your ass paying what seems to be top of the mountain prices.

We've pretty much given up on trying to get inside Rex ES's boundaries, not going to pay over $250 per sq ft for something. It's depressing because we both would like to live down closer to work, but we're kinda down on the old houses (not for us) and it's hard to take that leap that you won't lose your ass paying what seems to be top of the mountain prices.

Bummer. What's more, is that these will not be easy to resell at those rates.

I am not saying this will definitely happen, so don't buy down there on this, but what if they decide to rebuild the jail elsewhere? A brand new police HQ and courthouse will be nearby, but a lot of the riff-raff will leave with it creating an area with 21c south of it, a Civic Center music hall with more renovations on the smaller space, lots of open land around the jail to be developed, plus everything going on at Film Row.

would be awesome, but 10 years away minimum I'd say. mostly due to politics.

would be awesome, but 10 years away minimum I'd say. mostly due to politics.

I agree on the development being 10 years away, but they have been talking about building a new jail for five years or more now. That could be in the 2017 GO Bond. Not saying it is a good idea, but it could be there.

I agree on the development being 10 years away, but they have been talking about building a new jail for five years or more now. That could be in the 2017 GO Bond. Not saying it is a good idea, but it could be there.

Last vote to fund a new jail failed. Just saying it might take awhile for them to work that out...

Last vote to fund a new jail failed. Just saying it might take awhile for them to work that out...

When was that? I know it's not popular, but I never knew there was a vote.

There hasn't been a vote in the 5.5 years I've lived here.

We better support it, or we're going to pay out the rear for it via federal mandate, but that's for another thread.

They didn't vote, but polls indicated if there was a vote, it would fail.

that is correct

Oh that's right, did they call off the vote when they realized it would fail?

shawnw: yep...lost count on how many times over the years, there have been articles stating by those in the know, that an election date would be set shortly...has yet to happen. IIRC, we were supposed to have voted on it around the time of the MAPS 3 election (if not before that) and a few times since.

As a side note to an earlier post, it is the COUNTY jail, so it won't be in the City's "2017 GO Bond" (unless the County has GO Bonds too?)

We've pretty much given up on trying to get inside Rex ES's boundaries, not going to pay over $250 per sq ft for something. It's depressing because we both would like to live down closer to work, but we're kinda down on the old houses (not for us) and it's hard to take that leap that you won't lose your ass paying what seems to be top of the mountain prices.

Nothing listed in this thread is over $250/sqft. Nothing downtown is anywhere near top of the mountain prices. In 10 to 20 years, when downtown is relatively filled in, I don't think $300/sqft is unreasonable by any stretch of the imagination. And I don't think there will be any new builds with a family unit for less than $200/sqft. Maybe you get lucky and something from one of the older DD properties becomes available at a low price point, but I kind of doubt it.

Nothing listed in this thread is over $250/sqft. Nothing downtown is anywhere near top of the mountain prices. In 10 to 20 years, when downtown is relatively filled in, I don't think $300/sqft is unreasonable by any stretch of the imagination. And I don't think there will be any new builds with a family unit for less than $200/sqft. Maybe you get lucky and something from one of the older DD properties becomes available at a low price point, but I kind of doubt it.


This

Thisbro... if you just look into your soul.. you will find what you need ton conteu yourr journey my friend. These houses are change the city forever,, we supprt them!!!

bro... if you just look into your soul.. you will find what you need ton conteu yourr journey my friend. These houses are change the city forever,, we supprt them!!!

???

Bummer. What's more, is that these will not be easy to resell at those rates.

As Pete said, the great thing about real estate is that it is nearly a perfect marketplace. If, as you say, you cannot resell at these prices, then banks won't loan money to buyers the first time around. Either the price is right and OKC peeps are just having trouble getting used to the new normal, or the price is wrong and will come down a little in negotiations (as often happens in real estate transactions). Likely the reality is somewhere in the middle.

Just rememeber, the top 3 rules in real estate. Location, location, location. Yes this is close tot he jail but also will be close to (possibly) two new skyscrapers, the art museum, and the civic center. Avana apartments sold for a record amount last summer and they're just around the corner from these.

I do hope they stay for-sale, though, and do not go to the rental market.

bro... if you just look into your soul.. you will find what you need ton conteu yourr journey my friend. These houses are change the city forever,, we supprt them!!!

Cocaine is a helluva drug.

bro... if you just look into your soul.. you will find what you need ton conteu yourr journey my friend. These houses are change the city forever,, we supprt them!!!

I haven't done mushrooms in years. Can you still find them around here?

I haven't done mushrooms in years. Can you still find them around here?man I honestly don't know :p I'm not sure why I posted that tbh

I haven't done mushrooms in years. Can you still find them around here?

Clearly you can.

Clearly you can.coke is better ;)

So, I was looking at the flats on zillow again and they are only listing 25 of them. The article says there are going to 34. Has someone already bought nine or are they sometimes just not listed?

Is this still happening?

Is this still happening?

Is there some reason you think it might not be? It was only announced about 3 months ago.

Is there some reason you think it might not be? It was only announced about 3 months ago.ummm. . . this has been talked about for over a year and officially announced in January

ummm. . . this has been talked about for over a year and officially announced in January

That still is very soon for most developments. It was proposed in January but wasn't really finalized then and doesn't explain why you are wondering about it. Urban Renewal, who owns the property, didn't sign on to this until the middle of June. Pete addressed that with you in another thread. You just always want everything now and that rarely happens.

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-citys-urban-renewal-authority-set-to-partner-in-housing-development/article/4936635

my bad

OCURA is set to approve a financing package next week for the sale of the property for this project (I added the bold):


Background: Civic Centre Flats, LLC was the sole respondent to the Authority’s request for proposals for property located between Couch Drive and N.W. 2nd Street, just east of N. Lee Avenue (Lots 7–16 of the Bennett and Gerson Addition). On June 18, 2014, the Authority approved a Contract for Sale of Land and Redevelopment (“Redevelopment Agreement”) with Civic Centre Flats, LLC (“Redeveloper”) that contemplates the development of a for-sale residential project that will include 34 units (20 one-bedroom units; 8 two-bedroom units; and 6 two-bedroom, two-story units).

The Redevelopment Agreement requires the approval of a financing agreement between the Authority and the Redeveloper. The proposed Financing Agreement makes the determination that the purchase price of $700,000.00 is not less than fair value. It dictates that the purchase price will be paid to the Authority upon the sale of each of the units. It also provides for the Authority’s participation in the Redeveloper’s profits.

is that normal? For OCURA to have a direct cut of the profits? What has OCURA done to deserve a cut of the developer's pie? Is OCURA also investing money for design and construction?

Seems like they are just selling the land. Must be nice. You are going to pay me for this land, and then once you own the land I'm going to take directly from your profits of each unit you sell.

Seems suspect to me.

Ordinarily, a developer would have to buy the property from OCURA up front.

They must have worked out a deal to take a share of the profit in return for them not paying for the land until after the units are sold.

Considering there was no other response to the RFP and both parties seem agreeable to the terms, it just sounds like a creative way of moving this project forward.


However, it's strange they didn't include the details of the arrangement in the agenda packet.

Ordinarily, a developer would have to buy the property from OCURA up front.

They must have worked out a deal to take a share of the profit in return for them not paying for the land until after the units are sold.

Considering there was no other response to the RFP and both parties seem agreeable to the terms, it just sounds like a creative way of moving this project forward.


However, it's strange they didn't include the details of the arrangement in the agenda packet.

Thanks for the clarification. I must've misread, I thought they were buying the land up front, and the upon sale they would split the profit some way. So really the land will be sold pretty much directly from OCURA to the buyer of the unit once a unit is built and sold.

Thought I saw last week on Steve's chat that a third of these have pre-sold and there was a lot of interest. Is that true? Also, weren't these supposed to break ground this month?

Sorry for all the questions. I'm definitely rooting for this project, we need more for sale properties in the core.

I know they have flooded Zillow. I've been idly browsing urban homes for sale and it's striking what a severe lack there is in OKC. These units, the Hill at Bricktown, and one in City Place are pretty much it right now.

This project is moving forward and is now known simply as The Civic.

In their meeting next week, OCURA will vote to approve their design plans so they can move to the next step of seeking approval from the Downtown Design Review Committee.

This project is moving forward and is now known simply as The Civic.

In their meeting next week, OCURA will vote to approve their design plans so they can move to the next step of seeking approval from the Downtown Design Review Committee.

Awesome news, although not excited about the name…They can always rebrand though.

Would love to know if others living in more urban cities have found it to be the case that every residential development has a name? I mean, we even name private residences in OKC (like The Firehouse Townhome). I've never seen a residential development with a name in any of my travels.

All the new residential developments in Seattle are named, and much of the old buildings are as well.

Would love to know if others living in more urban cities have found it to be the case that every residential development has a name? I mean, we even name private residences in OKC (like The Firehouse Townhome). I've never seen a residential development with a name in any of my travels.

Most of the newer residential developments in Charlotte have names as well. The difference is major cities usually have so many urban residential developments its easier to lose track.

If you stopped random locals in the vicinity of one of these developments more than likely they know the name, or at least a nickname.

Would love to know if others living in more urban cities have found it to be the case that every residential development has a name?

You'll find that a lot of apartment buildings have names, but far from every one does. In LA, it seems a lot multi-unit places have names, but you often don't really notice. In SF, it seemed that only high rise places had names, but that city is (or at least was) mostly renovated flats and subdivided older residences. A lot of older Apt. buildings carry the name of the original development, like you see here with the midtown renovations. I think the difference is that the newer ones seem like they're named by a PR firm that did some market research on coolness.

You'll find that a lot of apartment buildings have names, but far from every one does. In LA, it seems a lot multi-unit places have names, but you often don't really notice. In SF, it seemed that only high rise places had names, but that city is (or at least was) mostly renovated flats and subdivided older residences. A lot of older Apt. buildings carry the name of the original development, like you see here with the midtown renovations. I think the difference is that the newer ones seem like they're named by a PR firm that did some market research on coolness.

Very true. My brother has a condo in area of LA which is heavily developed with condos and apartments. They all have names. OKC is starting to have so many now that I sometimes lose track of which is which.

Their proposed signage:


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/civic021215.jpg

And a new rendering and floor plans:



http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/development-buildings/10178d1423773695-civic-center-flats-civic021215b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/development-buildings/10177d1423773695-civic-center-flats-civic021215c.jpg



http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/development-buildings/10176d1423773694-civic-center-flats-civic021215d.jpg

I am curious about thoughts on this project as compared to others. The Hill. Block 42. Lisbon. ETC. Also wondering about thoughts on these compared to the projects outside of downtown area - i.e the new homes near Classen Curve on 57th. The difference of location is obvious but just in terms of pros and cons, value, resale and so on. Would be curious to hear thoughts and views. This concept may have been covered another location so sorry if already out there or if there is better place to discuss. Thanks.

According to Realtor.com, only 20 of the 34 units are still available.

According to Realtor.com, only 20 of the 34 units are still available.

What target do they need to hit before they break ground? In my experience it's hard to get over 50% pre-sold before you actually have a building.

Crazy to me that these are pre-selling for $230+ per sqft, and we somehow don't have developers stampeding to get a high-rise residential tower(s) here.

I hate to say it, but I didn't even think that these were that nice. That price point is in line with the Brownstones.

^Agreed

Crazy to me that these are pre-selling for $230+ per sqft, and we somehow don't have developers stampeding to get a high-rise residential tower(s) here.

With virtually zero amenities.