I found this to be very interesting and it went right along with how I have always felt.

The Truth About Common Nutrition Myths (http://shine.yahoo.com/healthy-living/truth-common-nutrition-myths-181100957.html)


Myth: Organic produce packs more nutrients than the conventional kind.
The real deal: Although buying organic fruits and veggies helps protect the environment, research published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition found that they have no nutritional advantage over their conventionally grown counterparts. And while the latter contain more chemical residue, no studies have definitively proven that the amount of chemicals we ingest causes any harm: Much of the research linking pesticides with disease was done on farmers who had been exposed to huge quantities, Davis says. Still prefer organic? Spend the extra money on produce that has a peel you eat, such as apples and peaches.


I have no problem with people who prefer to buy organic produce but I consider it to just be a "feel good" waste of money.

That's How I felt at Sprouts. I like local and organic. And as far as I am concerned, genetically modified and processed foods are freakish - but come on. The crap pitched to people with extra money made me feel like I was in a snake oil convention. Where does anyone have have that kind of extra cash to throw away?

That's How I felt at Sprouts. I like local and organic. And as far as I am concerned, genetically modified and processed foods are freakish - but come on. The crap pitched to people with extra money made me feel like I was in a snake oil convention. Where does anyone have have that kind of extra cash to throw away?

I'm not into paying considerably extra for 'organic', and I find Wholefoods pricing exorbitant for my budget, but we do shop often at Sprouts for our fruits and veggies. I find most of the time the prices are the same (within 10%+/-) and occasionally cheaper than Walmart and consistently better quality.

I only go to Sprouts for ground pork. It is wrapped air tight and it doesn't fart when you open it like Hormel ground pork from other grocers. As far as fruits and vegetables I'm perfectly fine with continuing buying those products at Homeland or Crest or wherever.

Re Sprouts - I wasn't clear that it is the non food items pitched as natural and "organic" that strike me as snake oil.

Re Sprouts - I wasn't clear that it is the non food items pitched as natural and "organic" that strike me as snake oil.

Have you seen the organic pop tarts? What the hell? How is that even possible?

If bugs won't eat GMO should a human?

Companies such as Sprouts and Whole Foods work on the emotions of the
consumer. Have you ever wondered why there are so many flowers in the
front of a grocery market? It's to give you the impression of frailty and
perishable. Flowers perish quickly. The idea that everything is of the utmost
freshness is immediately put into the brain of the consumer. How about the
crates? Have you looked at them? They're prefabricated in order to give the
buyer the impression that farmer Jones dropped of his produce this morning.
He didn't it was ordered months ago. And why are products sitting in ice?
It's to give you the impression that they are fresh.

Get a clue. Open your eyes.

I thought it was for guilt tripping the hubby when couple shopping.

Companies such as Sprouts and Whole Foods work on the emotions of the
consumer.

That is true of most retailers. It's been that way for decades.

That is true of most retailers. It's been that way for decades.

Very true - lots of mythology going on across a lot of industries these days, from the medical, to the pharmaceutical, retail, you name it.

Let's face it - beer commercials prey on emotions. "Drink Super Beer Lite Ultra, and you'll be cool, never gain any weight, and you'll get all the hot women." You'd think the inherently preposterous nature of such a notion would put most rational people off, yet that's been a fundamental tenet of that particular industry's advertising for ages, so I guess it doesn't take a great leap to think that slapping the word "organic" on a package would drive people who just know it means "healthy..."

Bottom line is that people must engage at least a modicum of common sense and reason. I remember the hysterics back in, what was it, the 70's and 80's with cyclamates and saccharin as artificial sweeteners - both separately and roundly vilified as carcinogenic, yet later vindicated when it was realized that either the testing was not conducted properly, or the proportions necessary to mimic the intake given to the mice would have roughed out to something like 400 sodas a day....

When you see big, hairy labels on a box just screaming something to grab your attention, you just have to say, "wait, what are they really trying to sell me...?" I like Progresso soups, and noticed that they sell a "Heart Healthy" label that offers a tomato basil soup - one can is 240 calories. The "non" Heart Healthy variety? 280 calories. Not even the difference of half of one of my favorite granola bars.

Folks just have to pay attention, and use their God-given intelligence and common sense to separate the wheat from the advertising chaff.

Folks just have to pay attention, and use their God-given intelligence and common sense to separate the wheat from the advertising chaff.

and please, fellas, use your God-given intelligence to stay AWAY from the sugar-free gummi bears!

and please, fellas, use your God-given intelligence to stay AWAY from the sugar-free gummi bears!

I just stay away from the gummi bears period, as I think they're actually first cousin to Albino Brain Chiggers.

(let's see who gets THAT reference)

I am a new convert to the 'organic' food world. I started with just a few simple rules and have started branching out from there.

Basic Rule #1: Avoid High Fructose Corn Syrup.

I have 100% stopped the consumption of it. If it is in something I don't eat it - period. This has resulted in food being thrown out.

Basic Rule #2: No more corn-fed beef.

I can't 100% stop this since most burger places use it but if I have a choice I opt for grass-fed every time.

Basic Rule #3: Choose flavor over portion size and price.

I have decided that enjoying what I eat should have a higher priority over how much of it I can shovel in my mouth or saving a few pennies (or even dollars). Sure this results me eating less but guess what - I was over weight to begin with.

Basic Rule #4: Buy 'slow food' every chance I get.

Once you go to 'slow food' you will never go back to machine food if given a choice. For those who don't know what slow food is I started a thread about it awhile back. It turns out food prepared the old fashioned way is just better.

http://www.okctalk.com/current-events-open-topic/35708-slow-food-movement.html

However, I understand some people prefer soylent red, yellow, and green wafers if they can get a good price per pound.

I'm with you, as much as time and budget permit, JTF.
I'll happily put in a plug for my favorite burger place: Patty Wagon. Grass-fed local beef.
It shames me to say I STILL haven't tried Tuck's Onion Burger, but I will. I don't know about their beef, so I would disclaimer that I plug Patty Wagon partially based on ignorance.
Smart of you to 'quote' the word organic. Since the government has gotten involved there are a lot of good foods that can't claim the organic label since they don't have a vertical monopoly on the production line, but are still good, slow, quality food.
Good luck in your diet choices.

Good luck in your diet choices.

I don't know if it is better for me or not - but I feel better, and if I feel better isn't that half the objective?

We went to Paris at the end of the year where there is much less processed, manufactured, or un-natural foods and nothing with HFC in it. We ate everything in sight and when we got home I had lost 5 pounds and the little lady lost 7 pounds. As for the taste of the food, it should be a crime to label most of our food using common historic names. For example, our cheese should have to be called 'cheese-like' because it isn't even in the same class as real old-world cheese. We ate a Pizza Hut 2 times; the first time because we knew our kids would eat it and the second time because the first time it was the best pizza we ever had. It had to be the ingredients. Papa John is right - better ingredients make a better pizza.

Nutella crepes in Montmartre: :o

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/KerryinJax/Paris%20New%20Years%202013-14/Montmartre/CAM00428_zpsw3mleguq.jpg (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/KerryinJax/media/Paris%20New%20Years%202013-14/Montmartre/CAM00428_zpsw3mleguq.jpg.html)

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/KerryinJax/Paris%20New%20Years%202013-14/Montmartre/CAM00432_zps96spn1jl.jpg (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/KerryinJax/media/Paris%20New%20Years%202013-14/Montmartre/CAM00432_zps96spn1jl.jpg.html)

Very true about the cheeses! Good Italian food with freshly-grated parmigiano reggiano (I've NO idea how to spell that, but I know it when I see it in the store) just cannot be beat. I will buy and use a lot of american cheeses (cheddar and the like made in America), but won't use anything that has to add the word "food" to it (ala cheese food). It at LEAST has to meet the USDA's qualifications for cheese for me to use it. Still, you're right. I'm told that the green plastic can of parmesan cheese and it's off-brand comparatives aren't even really cheese. I'll have to look at the labels on that -- sadly.
Got any pictures of cheese in Paris?

Got any pictures of cheese in Paris?

Yes, yes I do.

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/KerryinJax/Paris%20New%20Years%202013-14/Montmartre/CAM00414_zpsmt85ixdg.jpg (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/KerryinJax/media/Paris%20New%20Years%202013-14/Montmartre/CAM00414_zpsmt85ixdg.jpg.html)

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/KerryinJax/Paris%20New%20Years%202013-14/Montmartre/CAM00415_zpsogac7hro.jpg (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/KerryinJax/media/Paris%20New%20Years%202013-14/Montmartre/CAM00415_zpsogac7hro.jpg.html)

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/KerryinJax/Paris%20New%20Years%202013-14/Montmartre/CAM00416_zpsp6bxa9qq.jpg (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/KerryinJax/media/Paris%20New%20Years%202013-14/Montmartre/CAM00416_zpsp6bxa9qq.jpg.html)

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/KerryinJax/Paris%20New%20Years%202013-14/Montmartre/CAM00418_zpslzg2wcxj.jpg (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/KerryinJax/media/Paris%20New%20Years%202013-14/Montmartre/CAM00418_zpslzg2wcxj.jpg.html)

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/KerryinJax/Paris%20New%20Years%202013-14/Montmartre/CAM00419_zpsgjcicnqx.jpg (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/KerryinJax/media/Paris%20New%20Years%202013-14/Montmartre/CAM00419_zpsgjcicnqx.jpg.html)

Dubya61,
Funny you should mention parmigiano reggiano, because I decided to run my own taste test. I bought parmegian reggiano and Sarvecchio parmesan from Plymouth, Wi., and I can't tell the difference.
C. T.
Very true about the cheeses! Good Italian food with freshly-grated parmigiano reggiano (I've NO idea how to spell that, but I know it when I see it in the store) just cannot be beat. I will buy and use a lot of american cheeses (cheddar and the like made in America), but won't use anything that has to add the word "food" to it (ala cheese food). It at LEAST has to meet the USDA's qualifications for cheese for me to use it. Still, you're right. I'm told that the green plastic can of parmesan cheese and it's off-brand comparatives aren't even really cheese. I'll have to look at the labels on that -- sadly.
Got any pictures of cheese in Paris?

Dubya61,
Funny you should mention parmigiano reggiano, because I decided to run my own taste test. I bought parmegian reggiano and Sarvecchio parmesan from Plymouth, Wi., and I can't tell the difference.
C. T.

Thanks for the note, CT. Was that cheese (the Sarvecchio parmesan) purchased locally? Where? I've a Brit friend who laughs at our American cheddar. I've tried good English Cheddar, and it's good, but you I cook easily and happily with American. I certainly didn't mean to diss American foods. I just don't like cheese in a single serve plastic wrapper!!!!
I'm sure it's all preference. With exception of good mozzarella, I can't stand most of the soft cheeses, but the more aged and harder, the better.
--please, no innuendos, I'm already hearing and saying them all in my head.

Cheese and Bread are two things that Europe ruined for me…Not that you can't find quality in the US, but forget finding it at a reasonable price.

Dubya61,
Yes, I purchased it at the Uptown Grocery in Edmond but I suspect you could get it at Whole Foods as well. My Brit friend, Chris from London is coming to visit in two weeks, but unfortunately, cheese gives her a headache. She has to eat it for lunch, not dinner. I have been to Cheddar England and it's good cheese, but good quality cheese is definitely available from America.
C. T.
Thanks for the note, CT. Was that cheese (the Sarvecchio parmesan) purchased locally? Where? I've a Brit friend who laughs at our American cheddar. I've tried good English Cheddar, and it's good, but you I cook easily and happily with American. I certainly didn't mean to diss American foods. I just don't like cheese in a single serve plastic wrapper!!!!
I'm sure it's all preference. With exception of good mozzarella, I can't stand most of the soft cheeses, but the more aged and harder, the better.
--please, no innuendos, I'm already hearing and saying them all in my head.

Those pics of cheese look yummy! I am a cheese head, not the football kind. Zimmerman was in France on one of his shows and found a cheese I know I wouldn't be able to handle. It had live maggots crawling through out it. ABC is from Third Rock. It triggered a faint memory and I admit I had to look up what show it was from.

My daughter once enrolled me in a cheese of the month club - every month all kinds of cheeses arrived (in dry ice). Some were amazing. Some were weird. But I loved the experience.

My wife wanted to buy some and bring home but was told it was illegal to bring back into the US because it wasn't pasteurized.

Correction to my previous post. That show was shot on the island of Sardinia, off the coast of Italy.

ABC is from Third Rock. It triggered a faint memory and I admit I had to look up what show it was from.

DING DING DING!!! :D One of the funniest shows ever, also one of the quickest burnouts ever.

Back to topic :)...I'll bet there are a LOT of cheeses (and similar products?) that can't be brought into the US due to pasteurization rules. Understand why, but its kind of a shame, too...

I'm by no means any cheese expert at all, but I'm sure I've seen some shows featuring US-based cheese producers making product based on original recipes and distributing them either directly or through various outlets. Bet you could find some sources on the 'net.

Same thing goes for meats and sausages, and for whatever reason pepperoni comes to mind. Today's pepperoni doesn't taste anything like what I remember as a kid, particularly when we'd get a Shakey's or a Pizza Inn pepperoni pizza (mind you this was circa 1975). It had a wonderful, zesty zing and aroma to it that I remember vividly to this day - aroma/flavor the current pepperonis just, well, don't have.

So far, mozzarella di bufala seems elusive to southern Italy, but there are always people out there trying to duplicate it. There are often some that come close, though! Certainly close enough for my philistine palate.

Same thing goes for meats and sausages, and for whatever reason pepperoni comes to mind. Today's pepperoni doesn't taste anything like what I remember as a kid, particularly when we'd get a Shakey's or a Pizza Inn pepperoni pizza (mind you this was circa 1975). It had a wonderful, zesty zing and aroma to it that I remember vividly to this day - aroma/flavor the current pepperonis just, well, don't have.

Shakey's! Man you are bringing back some childhood memories and you are spot on about pepperoni.

Over the last several decades I started to notice a huge drop off in the quality of meat. I remember 20 years ago my father-in-law used to cooks steaks that were out of this world with flavor. Even the cheap steaks my wife used to buy had good flavor and after we noticed the quality going down we started buying more expensive cuts, but even those started being tasteless and marbleized with white fat. Then I watched the documentary King Korn and found out why. Not by accident, the USDA actually grades beef backwards by giving their highest approval to beef that is manufactured on a feed lot using corn feed. Big surprise.

Now we only buy grass-fed beef (see Rule #2 on the previous page) and the quality is back. Even hamburger helper meals taste better - and burgers - forget about it, they are off the chart so much that my kids beg for me to grill burgers.

JTF,
What are your sources for grass fed beef? I would be interested in giving it a try. I have had some pretty good (actually excellent) beef from The Meat House in Edmond, and also Holder Brothers. And I almost forgot, Kamps has always been good. I agree about the pepperoni, it also used to come with a little heat but no longer. I'm an old Shakey's fan, started going to them in the mid 60's. My wife and I always enjoyed the Portuguese linguica, a pretty good sausage and Shakey's is the only place I know of that offered it.
C. T.
Shakey's! Man you are bringing back some childhood memories and you are spot on about pepperoni.

Over the last several decades I started to notice a huge drop off in the quality of meat. I remember 20 years ago my father-in-law used to cooks steaks that were out of this world with flavor. Even the cheap steaks my wife used to buy had good flavor and after we noticed the quality going down we started buying more expensive cuts, but even those started being tasteless and marbleized with white fat. Then I watched the documentary King Korn and found out why. Not by accident, the USDA actually grades beef backwards by giving their highest approval to beef that is manufactured on a feed lot using corn feed. Big surprise.

Now we only buy grass-fed beef (see Rule #2 on the previous page) and the quality is back. Even hamburger helper meals taste better - and burgers - forget about it, they are off the chart so much that my kids beg for me to grill burgers.

C.T. - I don't live in OKC now so my sources probably won't help but Publix (our local primary grocery chain) has a Greenwise line of products and grass-fed beef is one of the items. We also have a Native Sun grocery store near-by which only carries organic beef. We pay a little more but we even it out by eating a little less and make up the difference with flavor.

Native Sun Jacksonville (http://nativesunjax.com/)

http://www.publix.com/wellness/greenwise/products/Home.do

Shakey's! Man you are bringing back some childhood memories and you are spot on about pepperoni.

Over the last several decades I started to notice a huge drop off in the quality of meat. I remember 20 years ago my father-in-law used to cooks steaks that were out of this world with flavor. Even the cheap steaks my wife used to buy had good flavor and after we noticed the quality going down we started buying more expensive cuts, but even those started being tasteless and marbleized with white fat. Then I watched the documentary King Korn and found out why. Not by accident, the USDA actually grades beef backwards by giving their highest approval to beef that is manufactured on a feed lot using corn feed. Big surprise.

Now we only buy grass-fed beef (see Rule #2 on the previous page) and the quality is back. Even hamburger helper meals taste better - and burgers - forget about it, they are off the chart so much that my kids beg for me to grill burgers.

I may have to try some grass-fed beef just for the heck of it.

JTF,
I knew you weren't local, but didn't think about it when I asked the question.
Thanks,
C. T.
C.T. - I don't live in OKC now so my sources probably won't help but Publix (our local primary grocery chain) has a Greenwise line of products and grass-fed beef is one of the items. We also have a Native Sun grocery store near-by which only carries organic beef. We pay a little more but we even it out by eating a little less and make up the difference with flavor.

Native Sun Jacksonville (http://nativesunjax.com/)

Publix GreenWise Market Products (http://www.publix.com/wellness/greenwise/products/Home.do)

Shakey's! Man you are bringing back some childhood memories and you are
spot on about pepperoni.
No kidding. I preferred the buffet (Saturdaze?). Thin crust pepperoni pizza,
fried chicken (fantastic), those oven roasted potato wedges and a pop. In
1971 the price for the buffet was @ $1.69. Not sure what the pop cost.
$0.25 with $0.10 refills? I know they weren't free. Tea had free refills.

Prunepicker,
When I was going to Shakey's they didn't have fried chicken and I don't remember oven roasted potato wedges, but they might have had them. I'm talking mid to late 60's.
C. T.
No kidding. I preferred the buffet (Saturdaze?). Thin crust pepperoni pizza,
fried chicken (fantastic), those oven roasted potato wedges and a pop. In
1971 the price for the buffet was @ $1.69. Not sure what the pop cost.
$0.25 with $0.10 refills? I know they weren't free. Tea had free refills.

Prunepicker,
When I was going to Shakey's they didn't have fried chicken and I don't remember oven roasted potato wedges, but they might have had them. I'm talking mid to late 60's.
C. T.

When my Girlfriend (now Wife) went to Shakey's it was in the late 60's-early 70's and all we ever got was the pizza. Usually after a Church Service of some time and we had a fun youth group. We also went to Pizza Planet and Crystal's. Nothing organic back them just food that tasted good.

Prunepicker,
When I was going to Shakey's they didn't have fried chicken and I don't
remember oven roasted potato wedges, but they might have had them. I'm
talking mid to late 60's.
C. T.
Damg,. CT! I know you're nearly a million years old but I don't remember
Shakeys not having the Buffet with pizza, chicken and potatoes and that goes
for the late 60's through the 70's. Maybe you're thinking of another solar
system. Maybe a DC comic instead of Marvel.

I don't know. But I do know you're pretty... Er, pretty cool.

When my Girlfriend (now Wife) went to Shakey's it was in the late 60's-early
70's and all we ever got was the pizza. Usually after a Church Service of some
time and we had a fun youth group. We also went to Pizza Planet and Crystal's.
Nothing organic back them just food that tasted good.
Dang, we may have met. I was the long haird rock and roll type that order
pepperoni and extra cheese. My girlfriend didn't order anything because she
was usually passed out when we got there.

Prunepicker,
You know the time frames we both mention could be the difference. I don't ever remember a buffet (of any kind) until I left the U. S. Navy in mid 1968. Before that, I ate at Shakey's pizza in St. Louis (first stop when going back to Maryland after a vacation (leave) several times, and other places/states on the road to/from where I was stationed. "Buffet" was a new word to us. I guarantee that there weren't any in the Washington, D. C. or Baltimore area. Now, I hate to complain, I'm just a child. Do I need to report you to the administrators of this site for "name calling"? Ok, maybe second childhood, I'm having to take a required minimum distribution (RMD) out of my retirement funds starting this year, the year I will turn 70 1/2 (March). I have a year or two before I reach "a million".
C. T.
Damg,. CT! I know you're nearly a million years old but I don't remember
Shakeys not having the Buffet with pizza, chicken and potatoes and that goes
for the late 60's through the 70's. Maybe you're thinking of another solar
system. Maybe a DC comic instead of Marvel.

I don't know. But I do know you're pretty... Er, pretty cool.

Edited to add "I suppose a cafeteria was a buffet, but I was thinking more of the buffets that sprung up at various pizza and Mexican places.".