The Dallas City Hall and surrounding plaza may be the worst complex I've ever experienced in terms of pedestrian friendliness and inviting to the public. There are barricades all around, the plaza is virtually devoid of any human life, and the design of the building makes you feel very intimidated. It does not scream "I am so proud to be a citizen of the City of Dallas".


Also, I live in D/FW and the traffic sucks...it's also quite dangerous. 2,500 deaths on Texas highways so far in 2014....love those highways!Well, I was a pedestrian and it has been friendly to me when I've gone to it. Granted I haven't gone to it much, but I like it. I don't think every little thing needs to make you scream "I am so proud to be a citizen of Dallas". There are plenty of things here in OKC that don't make me proud to be a citizen here, but it's the way it is.

I found the state highway system consisted of about 79,645 centerline miles. That equates to 31 deaths per mile in a state that the second biggest in the US in terms of land and population. A state, that has the largest highway network. No surprise there.

In New York in 2013, there was 1,109 fatal wrecks. There are 1,674 miles of interstate roads in New York. Now I'm not going to compare that because it doesn't include county and farm routes as the Texas figures did, but common sense will tell you, the number is still high.

Yes, I do "love those highways". I like cars. I prefer my personal car over a crowded bus or street car. The majority of countries that are insanely dense aren't choosing to be that way. It's because the people are poor and have no means of buying anything on a lot or being able to afford a car. Why are there thousands and thousands of motorcycles on the road in 3rd world countries instead of cars?

While there are more deaths related to cars vs. mass transit, that is to be expected. It's about sheer numbers because most people don't know how to drive. If you have 10 buses that move 1,000 people vs. 1,000 cars that move 1,000 people, obviously, there is going to be more wrecks and more people that are going to drive like idiots and end up taking their life or someone else's because of it.

Highways don't bring people, people bring highways. If you think otherwise, build a 10 lane in the middle of nowhere and see what happens. When I say middle of nowhere, I'm not talking about the fringe of a major booming city, I'm talking middle of Kansas or the Oklahoma Panhandle; wouldn't even have to go that far, but I am truly talking about the middle nowhere. For induced demand to be true, it has to have all these variables like adding one lane to an already crowded highway or replacing a 6 lane road that is extremely congested and no other highway nearby with a 6 lane highway in order for people to watch it get backed up and say 'INDUCED DEMAND!!!!'.

If we were to build an outer loop as I posted in the highway expansion thread and made it 5 lanes each way plus and HOV lane, it wouldn't get backed up for 30-50 years. Our crosstown hasn't even gotten backed up except at the sh!tty I-44 interchange that narrows down to 2 lanes. The Kilpatrick still hasn't overflowed with traffic and they added a lane. But in 5 or more years down the road when that area has grown tremendously and new tax dollars and retailers have entered because of the great infrastructure out there-while homes were there before the highway was there-then I'll expect you to resort to induced demand.

If the highways are such a detriment to growth, why exactly is Dallas, Houston, Austin, and SA growing like they are? Texas isn't exactly a model for mass transit, yet is the fastest growing economy in the US. So I don't think Texas needs the 'help' of mass transit to grow. The cities are adding new mass transit, because in any quality city, these sayings go: you should be able to live your life without a car, you should be able to have a car and have the option to live in suburbia with large six lane roads and wide highways, there should be light-rail and commuter/hsr serving the region. It's called options. Not every building is going to follow this 'pedestrian friendliness' crap that so many people on forum boards seem to be obsessed about. Not sure why that is an issue. I am just as comfortable and happy walking at Covell and Kelly in Edmond as I am walking in Downtown Dallas, OKC, or Campbell and Preston Road in Dallas etc. Happiness is a choice and a sidewalk deters you because it's next to an "unfriendly" six lane road, than you should have the option of living your life in an area like Deep Deuce or Uptown in Dallas.

[Links and sources:

List of Interstate Highways in New York - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Interstate_Highways_in_New_York)

NYC DOT - Commissioner Polly Trottenberg (http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/about/commbio.shtml)

Statistical Summaries | New York State DMV (http://dmv.ny.gov/about-dmv/statistical-summaries)

http://dmv.ny.gov/statistic/2013nyscrashsummary.pdf

Texas state highways - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_state_highways)

Infrastructure: Transportation - Texas In Focus (http://www.window.state.tx.us/specialrpt/tif/transportation.html) ]

I'm not sure who you're arguing with because you seem to be bringing up your own counterarguments ("If the highways are such a detriment to growth" - Did someone say that?) and then responding to them.

The very simple point that most of us are making is that driving in DFW is an awful experience when compared to driving in OKC. I live in DFW and I am in OKC all the time and there's not a comparison. Infrastructure in DFW can't keep up with the population growth. It's an absolute nightmare to drive around here. In fact, I literally make decisions about what to do with traffic in mind. My wife and I will want to go see friends and then decide "it's just not worth sitting parked on a highway to do it." This is something that I rarely ever have/had to do in OKC. OKC offers a driving experience where cars flow far better than they do in DFW.

DFW is a great city with many great things for people to experience. Driving is not one of them.

The very simple point that most of us are making is that driving in DFW is an awful experience when compared to driving in OKC.

DFW is a great city with many great things for people to experience. Driving is not one of them.I agree with that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yv9dzXDXzGQ

From personal experience while living in Texas. Dallas as well as the metropolitan area including Fort Worth has heavy traffic do to all the population growth, but I found Houston and especially Austin a traffic nightmare. In the Dallas area I will sit in traffic for a few mins then it's all clear. However that's not the case in Austin. People here in Austin use the Tollroads that they built here, as well as the commuter rail but the influx of people here is insane. 100+ per day adds up very quickly on the roadways.

I flew out to OKC for a job interview for Hobby Lobby back in 2008, one of there HR said to me, "How was the traffic around here since it was morning rush hour" I looked at her and said what traffic? Lol it was a good joke. Though I do know OKC has traffic and probably a little worst since 2008, but I'm just thankful that when I do visit there from time to time it's not all crazy congested like Austin. :)

I flew out to OKC for a job interview for Hobby Lobby back in 2008, one of there HR said to me, "How was the traffic around here since it was morning rush hour" I looked at her and said what traffic? Lol it was a good joke. Though I do know OKC has traffic and probably a little worst since 2008, but I'm just thankful that when I do visit there from time to time it's not all crazy congested like Austin. :)The worst OKC has is I35 south of Downtown during rush hour it backs up and slows to around 15-40 MPH give or take for about 8 miles. Traffic on our highways is a breeze. It is starting to get worse, but I use that term very lightly.

As for DFW traffic, you nailed it on the head man. I wasn't trying to say they have low traffic, but compared to cities like Austin, Houston, Atlanta, Honolulu, Jersey, and L.A., I'd take traffic in Dallas any day. When I say Dallas has good flowing traffic, I mean that in relation to how big it is. There are a lot of cities with a smaller metro population(Austin. . . Honolulu) that have some of the worst traffic in the US.

I can clear 635 in 30-50 minutes during rush hour given the situation.... was on the 405 for two and a half hours going from New Port to West Hollywood, not fun. When I went through Austin on a Sunday afternoon, it was like rush hour times 3 here in OKC. That same day I went through Dallas with no problem except for one little snag at 35e and 30 next to downtown because of an accident. Ealier this fall I was on the Katy Freeway in Houston right from downtown and got caught in traffic. This was at around noon on a weekday. No wreck or anything from what I could tell. Had to go see a friend at the Katy Fountains Apartments right off of Mason RD and it took me almost an hour and a half. Bumper to bumper the whole way. Rarely experienced that length of congestion just due to traffic in Dallas outside of rush hour, construction, or a wreck.

Bleu Ciel luxury condo tower breaksground today in Dallas

http://bizbeatblog.dallasnews.com/files/2014/12/bleu-ciel-rendering_113018.jpg


By Steve Brown
Dec. 8th 2014

Developer Harwood International is starting construction this afternoon on the first Uptown condo tower to be built since the recession.

The 33-story Bleu Ciel residential high-rise will be built on North Harwood Street near the entrance to the Dallas North Tollway.

The luxury residential high-rise was designed by HDF LLC*and architect Wilmotte & Associes S.A. of Paris.

The project will include groundfloor retail space and has access to the Katy Trail.

The building is scheduled to open in late 2016 or early 2017.


http://bizbeatblog.dallasnews.com/2014/12/construction-starts-today-on-bleu-ciel-condo-tower-in-dallas-uptown-neighborhood.html/

Perot will tap top talent for downtown Dallas skyscraper project | Dallas Morning News (http://bizbeatblog.dallasnews.com/2015/02/perot-will-tap-top-talent-for-downtown-dallas-skyscraper-project.html/)

So the "green building" (as I always referred to it) is still the tallest? I know they've built a TON of stuff since I left there in mid-1993, but I guess it's just been not-as-tall stuff.

Yeah most of everything new has been under 25 stories. The green building, BOA Building, is 72 stories. I think if Devon would have stuck to their original height, they would have rivaled the BOA Tower. Last week when I was down there, they it lit in red which was odd.

The smaller stuff is cool too though. They have some really pretty buildings out in the burbs. Uptown is on fire right now.

We were talking about Dallas freeways in another thread (that got derailed). Does anybody remember Central Expressway between LBJ and downtown before it got widened/improved? It had these super-short on ramps that were metered (little stop lights that alternated red/green every few seconds---totally worthless) to supposedly help people merge. It was a nightmare. You pretty much had to close your eyes and hold your breath and hope somebody would let you in. Here's a link to a photos of what it used to look like. They don't do its treachery justice, though.

http://www.texasfreeway.com/dallas/historic/photos/images/tti_us75_walnut_hill_may_88.jpg

Yeah most of everything new has been under 25 stories. The green building, BOA Building, is 72 stories. I think if Devon would have stuck to their original height, they would have rivaled the BOA Tower. Last week when I was down there, they it lit in red which was odd.

The smaller stuff is cool too though. They have some really pretty buildings out in the burbs. Uptown is on fire right now.


What's considered Uptown? I was there from 1988-1993. At that time, they were plowing down Section 8 neighborhoods near Deep Ellum to make new high-rise living and other stuff. They built a big Target store. Does this ring a bell? I haven't kept up with it very well in recent years. I know the area around the Crescent Hotel was a big up-and-coming place as well at that time.

What's considered Uptown? I was there from 1988-1993. At that time, they were plowing down Section 8 neighborhoods near Deep Ellum to make new high-rise living and other stuff. They built a big Target store. Does this ring a bell? I haven't kept up with it very well in recent years. I know the area around the Crescent Hotel was a big up-and-coming place as well at that time.

In broad terms Uptown is the area between the CBD and Highland Park.

In broad terms Uptown is the area between the CBD and Highland Park.

Thanks. That's pretty much the area that was about to explode when I lived there. I guess it did. It's still amazing to think of what Mockingbird Lane between University Blvd. and Greenville used to look like when I was at SMU versus what it looks like now. Is the old Dr. Pepper plant still there? It seems like they may have done something interesting with it...

Thanks. That's pretty much the area that was about to explode when I lived there. I guess it did. It's still amazing to think of what Mockingbird Lane between University Blvd. and Greenville used to look like when I was at SMU versus what it looks like now. Is the old Dr. Pepper plant still there? It seems like they may have done something interesting with it...

I know nothing of an old Dr. Pepper plant, my Dallas experience doesn't go back all that far. My friend graduated from SMU a few years back so Highland Park/Uptown was the areas I would frequent when visiting. Deep Ellum is more my "vibe" though, funny now thats where she choose to get her latest apartment.

The old Dr. Pepper plant was on the north side of Mockingbird, just east of 75 and before Greenville/Matilda. If memory serves correctly, it was a big, sprawling one- or two-story campus of buildings. I remember there being a clock somewhere on the facility that had the traditional 10-2-4 numbers highlighted. OK, I just found some photos of it. Looks like they bulldozed the whole thing, which is why you don't remember it!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sdorn/sets/72157594372338967/

There is a Kroger where the Dr. Pepper plant was located. They only kept a few elements of the original building.

Yeah most of everything new has been under 25 stories. The green building, BOA Building, is 72 stories. I think if Devon would have stuck to their original height, they would have rivaled the BOA Tower. Last week when I was down there, they it lit in red which was odd.

The smaller stuff is cool too though. They have some really pretty buildings out in the burbs. Uptown is on fire right now.

After upgrading the lighting on the BOA a year or so ago they have been playing with the colors a lot. Blue when Mavericks Win, Cand Cane stripes at Christmas and whatever color for whatever awareness day. its always odd to see it another color besides its Green.
the upgrades on Reunion tower lighting as well can be interesting as well and I think I like the traditional White lights on it..

This article in the DMN shows that the suburbs are starting a "trend" of a more urban setting in traditional suburban locales.




Richardson is getting massive development next door to State Farm | Dallas Morning News (http://www.dallasnews.com/business/commercial-real-estate/headlines/20150218-richardson-is-getting-massive-development-next-door-to-state-farm1.ece)

Traffic has been great today so far. It is almost rush hour so that is going to change, but my point remains valid.

Well from what I remember, if you're not in "rush hour" and it's already past 3:00 on a Friday, you're doing pretty well. Have a safe trip!

Well from what I remember, if you're not in "rush hour" and it's already past 3:00 on a Friday, you're doing pretty well. Have a safe trip!Yeah haha.. the roads are usually full of cars, but Dallas has a wonderful highway and road network that usually keeps traffic flowing. It isn't like Houston or L.A. where the highway becomes a parking lot. The only highway I know in Dallas where that a regular occurrence is Stemmons freeway but that makes sense. I was traveling with traffic averaging 65-75 and hitting 90-95 on the the NDT. I just love Dallas so much. It is so relieving to be in a city where people can actually drive faster than 60 and have nice wide highways and roads that have medians and turn lanes! :P

I usually go to Dallas once every other week, but as of late, I've been hitting it at least once a week. I love OKC, but sometimes I have to dip to a real city. A city that understands 30 story buildings are NOT SKYSCRAPERS!!! ;)

I usually go to Dallas once every other week, but as of late, I've been hitting it at least once a week.

Every gas station in two states thanks you for keeping them in business. I could live comfortably on the amount of money you spend for gas. :wink:

Dallas is a great city, I'll be there tomorrow. Plus here is a great picture of the recent construction that's going on.

http://photos3.zillowstatic.com/p_e/IS9xzegc1qyc4u0000000000.jpg

3225 Turtle Creek Blvd APT 920, Dallas, TX 75219 is For Sale | Zillow (http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3225-Turtle-Creek-Blvd-APT-920-Dallas-TX-75219/67965319_zpid/)

I am actually flying into Love on Tuesday as well.

This project isn't urban or anything, but the scale is insane.

Nebraska Furniture Mart of Texas, said to be the largest furniture store in America

$400 Million
560,000 SF showroom
1,300,000 SF warehouse
2200 garage parking stalls/2000 surface lot stalls

http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/omaha.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/3/69/369c3e0a-5fbd-11e4-b843-001a4bcf6878/545161fc5cdaf.image.jpg?resize=1024%2C768
http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/omaha.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/1/ca/1cad5404-5fb6-11e4-b2f9-001a4bcf6878/54516201c3f68.image.jpg?resize=1024%2C768
http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/omaha.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/1/6a/16a709e2-5fb6-11e4-98d7-001a4bcf6878/545161f7a4dd8.image.jpg

It is projected to do over a billion in sales annually and has 6 miles worth of racking in the warehouse.
http://blog.nfm.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/construction-1024x705.jpg

That's massive!

On the NDT right doing 82 with traffic in rush hour

That Nebraska Furniture Mart is going to be neat. Our Dallas office has been doing the audio-visual stuff there. I didn't realize it was quite that massive, though.

On the NDT right doing 82 with traffic in rush hour

82 mph. Dallas rush hour traffic. Rubbernecking development. And OKCTalk'ing while driving.

Nice!

Good choice using the tollway; if you were on 35E you would have been going 8.2. It's an abomination from Denton to well south of LBJ with no end in sight to the construction that's causing the backups. Worst I've ever seen in 30 years of driving to/in Dallas.

Good choice using the tollway; if you were on 35E you would have been going 8.2. It's an abomination from Denton to well south of LBJ with no end in sight to the construction that's causing the backups. Worst I've ever seen in 30 years of driving to/in Dallas.

Yeah 35-E is terrible. It should be better once they finally finish the construction.

Other Dallas highways flow very smoothly for a city that size. I have hit Dallas several times during rush hour on the Central Expressway and while it does slow down, I have always been surprised how much it actually moves compared to Houston which is a real traffic nightmare.

I
Good choice using the tollway; if you were on 35E you would have been going 8.2. It's an abomination from Denton to well south of LBJ with no end in sight to the construction that's causing the backups. Worst I've ever seen in 30 years of driving to/in Dallas.
I'm at friends bar with my man bchris and I m tell hunt there is a lot a of Cougars inlvoe me all I love Cougars me man I love you too urbanized thanks for all u do in OKC I need it on the shining machine

See any trees I take of en I'm a tree wizard

Tertint

Oh my.

babydult, I hope you got home safe last night.

Riding Dart for the first time in a long time and the light rail is awesome. Wish OKC would get it going

Riding Dart for the first time in a long time and the light rail is awesome. Wish OKC would get it going


And we can understand you tonight too. That's encouraging.

We just returned home from a long weekend in Dallas. It's the first time I've stayed overnight in Dallas proper in nearly 20 years. Having lived there to go to college back in the late-80s through early-90s, I can say that it's a much a different city now. Of course, we can say that about OKC now versus 20 years ago, too. A few observations:

The greater metro area pretty much starts just south of Gainesville. Gone are most of the stretches of farmland and clearly-defined borders between towns. As others have pointed out, the gridlock on 35E is horrific. We drove in Saturday evening around 7:00, so I'd expect the traffic to be fairly light. Not so. From north of Denton until we exited to the George Bush Tollway, it was stop and start. They're going to have to do something about that corridor. Around the Lake Lewisville/Lake Dallas area, they're building some sort of massive structure that's higher than the current roadway. I have no idea what it is, but hopefully it'll help.

Drivers in Dallas are NOT nice. I'm a very good driver, and make every attempt to be courteous to the other motorists, and to not make them have to evade anything I do. However, from time to time I'll be thinking an exit is from the left lane and it'll turn out to be the right lane, or vice versa. In Oklahoma, if you're going the speed of everyone else and you signal, you'll pretty much be let in. Not so in Dallas. Those people just won't budge. And they lay on their horns like nobody's business. My husband and I speculated that perhaps after enduring traffic like that for a long time, you just get jaded and don't want to be nice any more.

There's major road construction EVERYWHERE. It's amazing. I wonder if there's ever been, or ever will be, a period of time when things aren't really torn up. LBJ between 35E and Central Expressway/75 was a cluster. But they did have a really cool thing--it was a paid express lane. Not the HOV lane, but an extra lane you could take for $1.00. It went way down below the at-grade lanes around the Preston Road exit and then spit you back out around Forest/Abrams. It was pretty cool. My daughter (8 years old and her first time in a really big city) went wild about it. She also thought the tall flyovers (especially at the LBJ/75 junction) were the bomb.

We had good luck (i.e., not too much congestion) on the Dallas North Tollway and on the George Bush Tollway. It was almost like a ghost-town, but my guess is that it'll fill in vis-a-vis the "induced demand" that people talk about here.

People in Dallas are very nice. They reminded me of the people here in OKC. Just get them out of their cars and they're talkative, helpful and friendly. We were glad to see that, after having dealt with the nasty drivers. Also, there were a ton of people there from Oklahoma. We saw tons of OU/OSU/Thunder shirts around, and lots of Oklahoma license plates.

Prices at restaurants seem slightly higher than they are here, maybe by 20% or so. We didn't eat at any places that are here in Oklahoma, so that observation may not be terribly accurate. It just seemed like we paid more than we do when we go out here. We did eat at some chains, though. We had Uncle Julio's Mexican, and Snuffer's (which has expanded to quite a few locations across the metro and other places in Texas), and Texas de Brazil. It's going to be awesome having that place here in OKC. It was fantastic! My only regret is that I wasn't STARVING when I arrived there, so I filled up quickly and didn't feel like I ate enough to justify the cost. But that's my fault.

Liquor is more expensive, at least just outside Addison. We stopped and I grabbed a bottle of vodka. It was $30.00. That same bottle in OKC is $25 at a place like Byrons, and $27 at a smaller mom/pop store. Not sure how the prices are in Dallas proper, though.

Highland Park (which is similar to our Nichols Hills) is "McMansioning" itself, just as is our Nichols Hills. I was dismayed to see that, as I'm fond of the character and charm of the houses as they were when I was there. We happened to be driving through on Sunday afternoon and noticed an open house. It was a lot where the original house had been completely demolished, and a new Mediterranean-style McMansion erected in its place. It was pretty, mind you, but would've looked so much better in a suburb (in my opinion). They crammed this massive structure (they didn't list the square footage, but it was two-story, with at least 3 living rooms, formal dining and six bedrooms/bathrooms) onto a tiny corner lot. The back yard only had room for a small swimming pool and a tiny patch of grass. This could be yours for a mere $3.6 million. The Realtor was nice to us, and he confirmed that many of the classic houses in the area were being demolished in favor of the McMansions. Like I said, it's just like what's happening in Nichols Hills. Except the lots are quite a bit smaller and the price per square foot is quite a bit more (which is to be expected in Dallas). Same trend in the Preston Hollow area (although I believe they've been doing that for a lot longer).

There are apartments/condos everywhere. Bazillions of them. The larger population, combined with the higher cost of housing, is probably why. There were the 3- or 4 story sprawling types we have here, but also a lot of super high-rises, especially in the Uptown area.

The DART rail system was awesome to see, all over the city. We wanted to ride it, but didn't get a chance. Maybe next time. By the way, we had been driving around downtown for a long time before I even noticed that their system has wires. It's like they just blended into the rest of the scenery.

Finally, the sheer quantity of shopping centers, grocery stores and restaurants was overwhelming. But I guess you have to have more of everything to serve a population so much larger than ours.

Bottom line: It was fun, and I'll visit there more often than I have lately, but I'm happy to be home. We have really pretty much everything they have, just on a smaller scale. And we're improving--fast. Fighting the constant congestion (on the roads and in stores, at parks, etc.) wouldn't be worth living there, to me. Maybe it would be in another season in my life, but I'm so happy to be able to get on the road here and go places easily, and to be able to have a little elbow room. I'm also happy to be able to afford a house here that in Dallas would never even be possible.

35E is undergoing construction. I'll post renderings and details when I get home.

This is a great highway project and I'm extremely excited to see it happen. Can't wait until it's done!


Scope

The proposed $4.8 billion project would rebuild the entire 28-mile corridor and provide managed lanes with dynamic pricing to keep traffic moving at 50 mph. Approximately $1.1 billion in funding has been identified for the project with most coming from SH 121 regional toll revenue funds dedicated to Denton County.

The project consists of three segments:

Segment 1 – south end, I-635 to Bush Turnpike, 5.5 miles
Segment 2 – middle portion, Bush Turnpike to FM 2181, 12.1 miles
Segment 3 – north end, FM 2181 to US 380, 10.5 miles


Improvements

Phase 1 improvements include:

One additional general purpose lane in each direction
Two reversible managed lanes
Additional general purpose lanes and frontage roads across Lake Lewisville
Phase 2 will complete all remaining elements of the ultimate environmentally approved schematic not constructed in Phase 1.

Schedule

Phase 1 construction began October 2013 and is expected to be complete by mid-2017.

Phase 2 construction will be contingent upon funding and delivery method to be determined within the next eight to 10 years.

I-35E Project (http://www.txdot.gov/inside-txdot/projects/studies/dallas/i35e.html)

This is part of the North Tarrant Express master plan by TxDot.

Another beautiful highway that is under construction. It's price tag is about 2 billion. This is I35W and I think we can expect something similar on I35E.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q2uO95wjU8

I'm trying to find I-35E rederings

I'm going to have dig a little deeper I guess because I can't find it, but I know I have seen it. It is along the lines of the NTE Project for 35W

Great analysis of your visit to Dallas. I have a few things though I want to add though.

First, Nichols Hills and HIghland Park don't really have a lot in common. The scale and density of homes in Highland Park totally dwarfs Nichols Hills. The infrastructure in Highland Park is also incredible, as opposed to the poorly lit and pothole infested Nichols Hills.

Secondly, it leaves me shaking my head when you say that OKC has everything Dallas does but on a smaller scale. I don't think that is the case at all, at least not yet. You could say the opposite - that Dallas has everything OKC does on a larger scale and that would be true. OKC is still very reliant on Dallas and people flood down there every weekend because it offers so much that is unavailable here. From shopping to entire cuisines to their transportation network to museums and tourist attractions, Dallas is on an entirely different level. I hope some day OKC outgrows some of its reliance on Dallas in the same way Charlotte has outgrown reliance on Atlanta.

In terms of shopping centers and grocery stores, there is no reason OKC couldn't have some of what Dallas does, but it doesn't yet. The much higher number of grocery stores per capita there is the magic of increased competition, less Wal-Mart saturation, and modern liquor laws that make it easier for grocers to turn a profit. As for shopping centers, it would be very realistic to see development in OKC similar to the area in Frisco around Stonebriar Mall.

Lastly, people in OKC like to complain about Dallas traffic but for a major city like that, it is actually very navigable. Every time I've dealt with the supposed terrible traffic I have been underwhelmed by how bad it actually is vs how bad people say it is. It's all about perspective though. I know plenty of people from rural areas who complain about OKC traffic. If you are used to Houston or LA you would probably really appreciate Dallas traffic. Even smaller cities with less than adequate highway systems like Austin or Charlotte have worse traffic than what I have encountered in Dallas. Despite what people say, Dallas' investment in its highway system has paid off.

My family and I go to Dallas quite often, as my wife is from there, so we visit family and friends frequently. We go at least 2-3 times a year. We just left there last weekend, and it seems to get bigger and bigger every time we go. The good thing about this trip, we left about 10A on a Friday, and got there about 1PM, and experienced almost no traffic. I like Dallas for visiting, to get away from here for a while, but I couldn't live there, again just too many people. We have to remember outside of the big three metro areas of New York, LA, & Chicago, DFW metro area is a bustling 7M, that's crazy. So we always have to remember we live just a few hours away from one of the biggest metropolis' in the US. The one thing I think that keeps people going to Dallas and making trips to Dallas is their destinations. I mean Six Flags over Texas, Hurricane Harbor are great places. My family and two other families from Norman went down there for the weekend to go to Six Flags, those dollars could been here if we had a decent amusement park. But even closer to Oklahoma in Grapevine you have Great Wolf Lodge, Legoland, Sea Life Aquarium, etc. These are some of the top reasons people travel to the Dallas area, not to look at skyscrapers and condos. So if the OKC metro area invested in some quality destination/tourist attractions, we could retain some of our dollars being spent in Dallas instead of OKC.

There are all sorts of draws to Dallas depending on what people enjoy. I am there 1-2 times a month. My partner plays in a softball league there so we are there for that and to just hang out with friends. I haven't went to six flags In probably 10 years. We tend to spend most our time in downtown,midtown and turtle creek area.

Great analysis of your visit to Dallas. I have a few things though I want to add though.

First, Nichols Hills and HIghland Park don't really have a lot in common. The scale and density of homes in Highland Park totally dwarfs Nichols Hills. The infrastructure in Highland Park is also incredible, as opposed to the poorly lit and pothole infested Nichols Hills.

Secondly, it leaves me shaking my head when you say that OKC has everything Dallas does but on a smaller scale. I don't think that is the case at all, at least not yet. You could say the opposite - that Dallas has everything OKC does on a larger scale and that would be true. OKC is still very reliant on Dallas and people flood down there every weekend because it offers so much that is unavailable here. From shopping to entire cuisines to their transportation network to museums and tourist attractions, Dallas is on an entirely different level. I hope some day OKC outgrows some of its reliance on Dallas in the same way Charlotte has outgrown reliance on Atlanta.

In terms of shopping centers and grocery stores, there is no reason OKC couldn't have some of what Dallas does, but it doesn't yet. The much higher number of grocery stores per capita there is the magic of increased competition, less Wal-Mart saturation, and modern liquor laws that make it easier for grocers to turn a profit. As for shopping centers, it would be very realistic to see development in OKC similar to the area in Frisco around Stonebriar Mall.

Lastly, people in OKC like to complain about Dallas traffic but for a major city like that, it is actually very navigable. Every time I've dealt with the supposed terrible traffic I have been underwhelmed by how bad it actually is vs how bad people say it is. It's all about perspective though. I know plenty of people from rural areas who complain about OKC traffic. If you are used to Houston or LA you would probably really appreciate Dallas traffic. Even smaller cities with less than adequate highway systems like Austin or Charlotte have worse traffic than what I have encountered in Dallas. Despite what people say, Dallas' investment in its highway system has paid off.

BChris, I am not an argumentative poster on here, and I don't intend to ever be, but I would strongly urge you to re-read my original post about the trip to Dallas. The point of the whole thing was to compare the Dallas I knew from 20-ish years ago to the Dallas we saw last weekend. The things I discussed were merely observations, and were not intended to be pro- or anti-Dallas. You also mis-stated some of the points I made, such as saying I said we had EVERYTHING Dallas does, but on a smaller scale. Go back and look. I said we have MOSTLY everything, which I will stand by. Not every specific thing, but most of the types of things you can get in Dallas.

As for your assertion that Nichols Hills and Highland Park don't have much in common, I will respectfully disagree. I lived right in the heart of Highland Park/University Park for 4 years while getting my degree from SMU. I had friends born and raised in HP. I dated a guy from there. I shopped there, ate there, partied there--did everything in that little area in the heart of the city. It was my entire culture and environment for all of that time, as well as during the 5th year I lived in Dallas before leaving. Highland Park and Nichols Hills have several things in common: First off, they're known for being where quite a bit of the "old money" people live. Yes, there are exceptions to that, but there's a commonality in that demographic. Second, many (not all) of the houses in both areas are from the same era. In HP and NH, you have a smattering of older (1930s) houses, and then a larger number of "newer" (1950s) houses, followed by (currently) a bunch of those older houses being demolished and/or completely rehabbed as "McMansions". I will challenge you on your statement that NH houses aren't nearly the same scale as HP. We have some VERY large, VERY elaborate homes in NH, just as are in HP. Are there more in HP than in NH? Probably, because Dallas is much bigger. As for the density, you are 100% correct. The majority of houses in HP are much closer together than in NH, and on much smaller lots. That aspect of it reminds me more of Crown Heights. No matter, the point I was trying to make was with respect to the McMansioning of those two neighborhoods. Until we went to Dallas, I wasn't aware of it being done like that anywhere else. It almost made me feel a little better, knowing it wasn't just being done in OKC (seeing as how we tend to destroy a lot of our cool older stuff here).

Additionally, I wasn't "complaining" about the Dallas traffic. If you go back and look at what I wrote, the only thing I had an issue with was the I-35E corridor between Denton and Dallas proper. I complimented the new "express lane" on LBJ, and pointed out that the George Bush and the Dallas North Tollway were very accessible.

I HAVE driven in Los Angeles. I actually lived in Los Angeles--right after I left Dallas. I quickly realized how much more congested LA was than Dallas and adapted to their traffic patterns just fine. As I said in my post, I'm a very good driver, and have been driving in big cities since I was 17. Traffic is different everywhere, and it's just something you learn to deal with in whatever market you're in.

Again, I don't mean to be argumentative but your response to my post seemed a bit condescending, and I wanted to call you out on it. Dallas is awesome. OKC is awesome. Right now, for me and my family, OKC is where we prefer to be.

Turnpup, if you don't mind me asking, what did you and your family do?

We primarily went down there so I could show my daughter and my husband my old stomping grounds, and just to have fun in general. When we travel with the little one, we always seek out Embassy Suites, because they have a separate bedroom that's private, and then the living room with the fold-out couch bed. Also, they have the free hot breakfast, and free drinks and appetizers each evening. And the (godforsaken, kid-filled, chlorine-infested, loud) indoor swimming pool (can you tell how much we hate that part, but do it for the kid?). The one we stayed at was the one near the Galleria, at Noel and Spring Valley. It was pretty nice, and a big plus was that they have two live swans living in the lobby. My daughter was ecstatic. Every morning at 10:30 they feed the swans lettuce. The kids are allowed to help. Those swans are pretty cool. When they sleep, they tuck their heads under their wings and just float. The current of the pool they're in makes them spin softly while they're asleep. It's kind of a trip.

We ate at Uncle Julio's, Snuffers Greenville (twice, at my husband's request), iFratelli Pizza (carryout), Flying Saucer and Texas de Brazil. It was fun making sure we ate at places that we don't (yet) have in OKC, even if they were chains.

As for activities:

The Galleria--my daughter wanted to see a real live Louis Vuitton store...Interestingly, they were having some sort of Muslim event at the attached Westin hotel, because there was a huge contingent of women in Burkas, even a few of the very restrictive ones with only the small cutouts for the eyes. It's the largest group of Burka'd women I've seen in one place. I was happy to notice that nobody seemed to bat an eye at them. I was also happy that we managed to (a) not buy anything; and (b) keep the kid from insisting on ice skating. She actually said herself that it was too crowded.

SMU--which is amazing to see the growth they've experienced over the past 20 years, and how beautifully the new buildings blend in with the old...they do it right at that place. They have a strict requirement that all new buildings/parking structures be done in the same Georgian style of architecture (I can only imagine how stunning OU would be if they'd kept to the style of their original buildings on campus). We walked all over campus and I took pictures of everything, and showed my family where I'd lived the first two years, and where I had various classes. We went up to the top of the parking garage I'd used (which, at the time I was there, was the only parking garage) and looked at the awesome view of the skyline. I reminisced about how I had gone up there for the turn of the century, and had seen fireworks literally every single direction we looked--a 360 degree panorama of celebration.

The George W. Bush Presidential Museum, which is pretty cool. The building itself is very large and very high-tech. We didn't spend a lot of time looking at the exhibits (as we were pressed for time), but it appeared to be exceptionally well-done, both inside and out. Even though the facility is technically on the SMU campus (at the eastern edge and toward the south end), it was granted an exception to the "all new buildings must be Georgian architecture" rule. One of the employees told me that that was kind of a deal-breaker, being able to have a different type of building design. But it doesn't really clash with the rest of campus. It's done in a kind of native-Texas theme, with plants and grasses and rocks and stuff that you'd see in that environment. Very tasteful.

Highland Park/University Park sightseeing--we drove around and looked at the houses, and at the country club, and the HP Village shopping complex. As I mentioned earlier, we got to see an open house at a new McMansion. We drove down Mockingbird to Love Field just to show my husband where it is, as he had seen a lot of low-flying planes while we were downtown.

Downtown/Uptown/Deep Ellum sightseeing--we drove all around downtown/Uptown/Deep Ellum, just looking at everything and all the people. We drove down to see the Swiss Avenue houses (which I've always said I'd love to buy and live in one of if I ever moved back to Dallas). There weren't any for sale. I can't even imagine how much the price has gone up on them since I was there. At that time, there were quite a few of them that were run-down and could be had for a lesser amount. Pretty much not true now.

The Dallas Arboretum--so very amazing, and it's grown so much since the last time I was there. We toured the DeGolyer house, which I'd not done before. The guide was awesome, and he even took the time to answer a question from my daughter. The gardens were in bloom (this is the "Dallas Blooms" time of the year for the Arboretum), the grass was green, and it was a picture-perfect day. I could hang out there forever if I had the time. There were tons of Quinceanera photos being taken of the young girls in their bright, festive dresses, as well as a few other photo shoots of girls in pageant-type attire. That part reminded me of Will Rogers Park, and how somebody's always doing photo shoots at any given time. We took off our shoes and walked through the most soft, dense grass you can imagine. Man, I wish our yard could be like that. It's probably a variety of grass we can't grow in this zone. As we were leaving, we bought a family membership to the Arboretum (even though we have no idea if we'll go back there this year) because it turns out that they have a reciprocal agreement with the Myriad Botanical Gardens, so it's well worth it.

We loved the reciprocal agreement on the tollways! Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I *think* Dallas has done away with paying cash/change on their toll roads. I don't remember seeing anywhere you could stop and pay. It was just all automated. We loved going really fast on the tollway between Mockingbird and LBJ. I think we reached the 90s, and there were still people passing us. This was on Monday, during the day.

That's about it, packed into just a few days. It was a great trip, and my husband and I hope to go back--alone--and stay at a really nice boutique hotel.

We primarily went down there so I could show my daughter and my husband my old stomping grounds, and just to have fun in general. When we travel with the little one, we always seek out Embassy Suites, because they have a separate bedroom that's private, and then the living room with the fold-out couch bed. Also, they have the free hot breakfast, and free drinks and appetizers each evening. And the (godforsaken, kid-filled, chlorine-infested, loud) indoor swimming pool (can you tell how much we hate that part, but do it for the kid?). The one we stayed at was the one near the Galleria, at Noel and Spring Valley. It was pretty nice, and a big plus was that they have two live swans living in the lobby. My daughter was ecstatic. Every morning at 10:30 they feed the swans lettuce. The kids are allowed to help. Those swans are pretty cool. When they sleep, they tuck their heads under their wings and just float. The current of the pool they're in makes them spin softly while they're asleep. It's kind of a trip.Awesome! I had no idea about that Embassy Suites. Real swans; that is pretty cool.


We ate at Uncle Julio's, Snuffers Greenville (twice, at my husband's request), iFratelli Pizza (carryout), Flying Saucer and Texas de Brazil. It was fun making sure we ate at places that we don't (yet) have in OKC, even if they were chains. I have never eaten at Uncle Julio's or Snuffers. I would definitely recommend a couple restaurants: The Londoner(preferably the one in Addison), Cloud 9(casual restaurant in the Reunion Tower), La Hacienda Ranch(North Dallas), Deli News(great breakfast place @ Campbell & Preston), Y.O. Ranch Steakhouse, Hibiscus, and a cool restaurant to take kids to is the Magic Time Machine.

A couple of good ones if you go back with your husband alone are Oak(close to Uptown), The Melting Pot(go to the Addison one, better vibe and atmosphere, imo),Five Sixty(the third level atop of the Reunion Tower) St. Martins Wine, Bijoux(funny enough, it's on a road called Lovers LN and is close to downtown), and lastly, I have not been to this one, but I have heard great things about the Mansion Restaurant.

I'll post some more later. Have to get back to work.

This is the website for the Time Machine

Magic Time Machine (http://www.magictimemachine.com/)

I went to Dallas over the break, All the hotels like the Magnolia and Adolphus were booked, so i ended up staying in a cheap Marriott Courtyard.
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Thanks for all the restaurant info, PluPan. It's nice to know there are good dining options up in Reunion Tower. I thought about going there, but wasn't sure if it'd be any good. Way back when I was in college, we ate at the rotating restaurant there (can't remember what it was called) and it was pricey and not-so-good. Next time, we'll go there for sure, now that I know it's going to be a decent meal.

Believe it or not, I've been to the Magic Time Machine, way back before the little one was born. We drove past there last weekend and I made a mental note that she'd probably like that place. Funny you mentioned it, too. Perhaps next time.

Snuffer's (on lower Greenville) was all the rage when I was in college. It was very small, and always packed with people, inside and out. Their specialty was cheese french fries. The cheese is baked all the way down into the fries, as opposed to being sprinkled only on top. They serve them with ranch dressing for dipping. Snuffer's was also a big drunken hangout for the kids I went to school with. I joked with the waitress when we were there last weekend about that being one of the few times I'd been to Snuffer's while sober. They've expanded the restaurant, so now it's all spacey, with big TVs on every wall, and nice bathrooms, and a huge patio. I have no idea if it still gets crowded at night, but it sure wasn't very crowded in the daytime when we were there. The cheese fries are still good.

Yeah no problem. Just talked to Joe and goodsa old boys. It's like Tulsa only bigger.

I plan to add more about Sallas amd what it offers. Sure you already know about it since you lived there but Ill post it anyways. Some really cool things people don't know about Dallas. Not many people like what the dallas does but it keeps right on doing it!

Adaniel, here is current traffic in Dallas compared to other major cities. I'm going to start doing this and everytime I'm down there I'm going to start making a log of what highway I'm on, what time of day, and how fast the traffic is moving.

Time and time again you and now Dankruta refuse to give me specifics on where the traffic is bad even though I've come out and contradicted myself a couple times by saying there are a few highways around the DFW metro that are constantly backed up. Stemmons, LBJ, 35E, and sometimes Central Expressway.

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10351260_10205160499244611_3886197720358304135_n.j pg?oh=1a6498b7724f445457c39d13c38b0165&oe=55787F25

More green than any other color. Wonder why that is.

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Highways are actually pretty good in Houston.

Atlanta
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DC Area
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10986655_10205160498404590_7817816038046669886_n.j pg?oh=074304219af7e95fe3b71014acc3b0a4&oe=55B888E3

Furthermore, to any of the resident urbanists who live in Dallas and think the traffic there is so awful and DART sucks, why do you live in Dallas? I constantly hear how this Jeff Speck guy has great views on how to build cities that lead to prosperous boomtowns with explosive growth, new jobs, allows you to save thousands a month, is healthier and people who live there live longer, so if that was truly the case, you should have no problem packing up and moving to one of those places. Same thing goes for Europe.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/charts/euro-area-unemployment-rate.png?s=umrtemu

Right now, the US unemployment is at 5.5

Here is some more info: List of countries by unemployment rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_unemployment_rate)

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/7/77/Unemployment_rate%2C_2002-2013_%28%25%29.png

Also funny how some of the most urban cities in the US are the ones with the highest unemployment rates.

Unemployment Rates for Large Metropolitan Areas (http://www.bls.gov/web/metro/laulrgma.htm)

Anyways, not trying to get off subject here, it's just something I've long though was funny.

Adaniel, about how many miles would say you've driven around Dallas this year? What highways have you encountered bad traffic on? How fast were you moving? What was the time of day?

Yeah no problem. Just talked to Joe and goodsa old boys. It's like Tulsa only bigger.

I plan to add more about Sallas amd what it offers. Sure you already know about it since you lived there but Ill post it anyways. Some really cool things people don't know about Dallas. Not many people like what the dallas does but it keeps right on doing it!i don't know what on earth was going through my mind when I typed this but I do plan to showcase he city and its attractions more for you and anyone else who goes down there for a visit.

Traffic comparison at 5:15PM today...

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