View Full Version : Dallas
adaniel 08-12-2014, 09:48 AM I was at a ULI North Texas meeting last week and there was a panel discussion about the Trinity Parkway. One of the panelists was, I believe, the president of the citizens' council. She was very in favor of the project. Well, a Dallas city councilwoman was at the meeting as well and she got into an argument with the the panelist saying she hopes the project never happens. It was interesting to see the hotly contested issue in person.
I really hope it isn't built. The last thing Dallas needs is more and more urban highways. It would pretty much kill the experience of hiking, walking, biking near the river....not to mention that we shouldn't be building huge road infrastructure between flood levees!
I don't think its getting built now that the Mixmaster is getting widened. The costs with it have soared to about 6x what is was budgeted, and I think the population in general has hit "peak tollroad."
You are right, building a freeway inside a levee is the height of idiocy. I'm not sure who thought this was a good idea. D Magazine had a good write up on this a few months back.
The Trinity Parkway Is*Dead - D Magazine (http://www.dmagazine.com/publications/d-magazine/2014/may/trinity-parkway-toll-road-is-dead)
soondoc 08-12-2014, 10:02 AM It's almost depressing to see all the things going on in DFW, Austin and Houston. I find myself pleased about stuff being done in OKC until I see stuff being done there. They do things with their highways and build some amazing things and it never seems to stop. We get on here every day just hoping for something to get "proposed" and then wait for years talking about it every day on a forum. I love OKC and it's changed so much over the years but we really aren't even in the same stratosphere as those cities and never will be.
As long as we have the current leadership at the city level (not including the mayor) and ODOT and the way they do things on the cheap, nothing will ever compare to the way they do things in Texas. I find that sad actually and have always wondered why we do things so backwards at times. I was in Tulsa last weekend and getting on and off the BA Expressway and couldn't believe how out dated and awful the on and off ramps were. Anway, congrats to those thriving cities in Texas and may OKC continue to excel as well, just at an entirely different pace.
Geographer 08-12-2014, 10:12 AM yes because all the huge roads and highways in Dallas are hampering development. That is why Dallas is doing so poorly in new construction and growth.
I didn't say anything about hampering development or that Dallas was doing so poorly in new construction of growth.
I'm advocating that another urban toll road through a FLOODPLAIN is a bad idea.
With that said, I would advise you to check out A New Dallas (http://www.anewdallas.com) to see what kind of effect that removing an urban highway could have for downtown Dallas.
Plutonic Panda 08-12-2014, 03:25 PM I didn't say anything about hampering development or that Dallas was doing so poorly in new construction of growth.
I'm advocating that another urban toll road through a FLOODPLAIN is a bad idea.
With that said, I would advise you to check out A New Dallas (http://www.anewdallas.com) to see what kind of effect that removing an urban highway could have for downtown Dallas.
Actually I don't support the Trinity Tollway just FYI. I just think the highways in Dallas are amazing and something we should look to as model. I also love their Dart system and wonder when we'll get something like that.
Bullbear 08-12-2014, 03:29 PM Actually I don't support the Trinity Tollway just FYI. I just think the highways in Dallas are amazing and something we should look to as model. I also love their Dart system and wonder when we'll get something like that.
I really don't want to see highways like the mixmasters that Dallas has developed in OKC. all the elevated roadway is a nightmare for Ice and snow and maintenance. we just removed I-40 Crosstown I don't think we want to make that mistake again.
Plutonic Panda 08-12-2014, 03:33 PM I really don't want to see highways like the mixmasters that Dallas has developed in OKC. all the elevated roadway is a nightmare for Ice and snow and maintenance. we just removed I-40 Crosstown I don't think we want to make that mistake again.I wouldn't mind seeing it but ground level would better. I want to see something like Central Expressway or the new 635 redesign here one day when traffic numbers support it.
Geographer 08-12-2014, 03:37 PM I really don't want to see highways like the mixmasters that Dallas has developed in OKC. all the elevated roadway is a nightmare for Ice and snow and maintenance. we just removed I-40 Crosstown I don't think we want to make that mistake again.
Plupan, I know you really do like the highway system in Dallas, but frankly it's kind of a nightmare. People drive so fast and the highways are so large and so wide that it's really intimidating. The lifespan of many of these highways are coming to a close where they need serious repair, maintenance, and reconstruction that the area, TXDOT, and the Fed's simply can't pay for it. All of the highways, especially urban highways, dissect neighborhoods in Dallas/Fort Worth so much that it makes it really hard to walk between urban neighborhoods immediately east, south, and southeast of downtown Dallas.
Too many transportation decisions down here by TXDOT and NTTA about their expansion of new highways and toll roads are made without considering the land use consequences of expansion into rural and ex-urban areas. Transportation decisions by TXDOT and NTTA are being made in silos by civil engineers looking really only at "level of service".
The DART system, in theory, is great. It's the largest mileage light rail system in the entire country but many of the stations are simply park-and-ride and aren't developing the kind of TOD expected. It's really hard to focus on DART/TOD while rapidly expanding and planning more and more highways out to the middle of nowhere.
And Bullbear is right, the mixmasters are concrete jungles that scream danger during ice and snow.
This is taken from the "A New Dallas" website about their vision for 345:
IH345 is the official name for the stretch of elevated highway defining the eastern boundary of downtown Dallas between Woodall Rodgers to the north and RL Thornton (I-30) to the south. It was built 40 years ago and currently divides downtown from Deep Ellum and Near East Dallas.
This independent study began 2 years ago to explore the economic, environmental, and traffic impacts of removing the freeway as it approached the end of its structural life span. While the remainder of this study explores the impacts of inner-city highways and the need to remove them, this particular highway section was chosen as opposed to the other freeways bounding downtown Dallas for a few primary reasons:
Age: Elevated highways typically have a structural lifespan of about 40. It is now 40 years old.
Structural Instability: Due to the asymmetric column structure supporting the road, it is more unstable than typical elevated freeways. Since 2000, 487 cracks have been spot repaired.
Lack of existing improvements in the area: As the economic impact section shows, the study area shows an enormous amount of underdeveloped land around IH345, mostly consisting of vacant land, surface parking lot, or excessive public right-of-way.
Lack of on-going investment in area: Due to the Arts District, uptown development, and various other projects going on around the city, the area around IH345 has the least amount of positive momentum.
No current plan on the books: At the time this study began, construction work had begun on Klyde Warren Deck Park spanning Woodall Rodgers freeway, planning for Project Pegasus and the East Corridor was on-going, therefore three of the four sides already had enormous amounts of mental and financial capital expenditures. IH345 represented the most forgotten and the greatest opportunity.
East Dallas: The original expansion direction of the city. Near East Dallas from I-30 to the historic ‘M’ Streets, from downtown to White Rock Lake consists of more than 5,000 acres of some of the best “bones” in all of Texas. However, much of the historic grid and architecture is plagued by blight and disinvestment, but it represents the best opportunity between existing and potential value.
Late in 2012, TxDOT began feasibility studies for various options to either repair or rebuild IH345. You can find the 9 options on their website. None of the current proposals include the removal of the highway section and the reconstruction of the historic grid to knit downtown back to its eastern neighborhoods as cities around the country and globe are doing. We suggest doing just that.
However stated on their website, proper weight is not being given to considerations other than moving vehicular traffic. As we’ll demonstrate in the traffic section, the 160,000 vehicles per day that use the corridor are there only because the highway is there. And both downtown and East Dallas suffer from it.
Instead, we propose using metrics and priorities other than simply maintaining status quo, including:
Revitalizing downtown Dallas, East Dallas, and Deep Ellum
Growing tax base through improved quality of life
Increasing transportation choice
Reducing unnecessary infrastructural burden and public costs
Creating more affordable walkable urban housing
Improving public safety
Expanding local business opportunities
Reducing vehicular congestion
Improving air quality
ChrisHayes 08-12-2014, 07:06 PM While I wish Oklahoma City had this kind of development, I have to say I'm glad we don't have the traffic they do. The congestion we have is enough for me. But I do want to see a lot more development.
mugofbeer 08-12-2014, 09:29 PM I'd like to see the NW Hiway rebuilt a la Central. I know it cant be all lowered but it would be nice to see it improved. Dreaming
Edit......OKCs Northwest Hiway that is....
JoninATX 08-12-2014, 09:37 PM Soondoc, believe me when I say OKC is doing just fine. I would be happy if some other city had 100 people moving there everyday. Austin traffic already rivals Southern California, Going out isn't cheap anymore and there is always a long line or if your waiting for your table which can take up to an hr during lunch & evening times. Other than that Austin is a great place to live and visit.
zookeeper 08-12-2014, 10:43 PM I'd like to see the NW Hiway rebuilt a la Central. I know it cant be all lowered but it would be nice to see it improved. Dreaming
Edit......OKCs Northwest Hiway that is....
It's funny, the Northwest "Expressway" with stop lights every mile. It always throws visitors looking for this "expressway."
adaniel 08-13-2014, 04:45 PM Soondoc, believe me when I say OKC is doing just fine. I would be happy if some other city had 100 people moving there everyday. Austin traffic already rivals Southern California, Going out isn't cheap anymore and there is always a long line or if your waiting for your table which can take up to an hr during lunch & evening times. Other than that Austin is a great place to live and visit.
I don't not get the need for some on this forum to consistently compare a metro area of 1.3 million to one with over 7 million. That's over 5 times the population. I wouldn't compare DFW to NYC or London, they are simply not in the same leauge. For the record, I think compared to other similar sized cities, OKC pulls its weight VERY well, at least now. IMO people sometimes forget how big we are. It's an admirable trait. OKC's like the small dog with a lot of fight...but at the end of the day certain things will simply not be feasible here.
And for the record, (not directed towards anyone) please just stop with this "OKC needs giant freeways" nonsense. People who drive on the highways in Dallas and say this obviously have not done so in a daily commuting fashion. I would NEVER hope that OKC would need to get to the point where such things are needed, because IMO its only spured by poor development patterns.
I can appreciate large public works projects done right. But some of this stuff, like the new interchange at 35 and 635 is so ghastly, its pretty much blighting an entire section of town. Also, this is all being financed by some of the shadiest toll agreements...I have no idea how some of this stuff is legal. And its quite expensive. I work with people who have little choice but to take the Dallas North Tollway or SH 121, and their toll bills annually are over $3k. No suprise that there is definitely a backlash brewing with NTTA.
Plutonic Panda 08-13-2014, 05:05 PM I don't not get the need for some on this forum to consistently compare a metro area of 1.3 million to one with over 7 million. That's over 5 times the population. I wouldn't compare DFW to NYC or London, they are simply not in the same leauge. For the record, I think compared to other similar sized cities, OKC pulls its weight VERY well, at least now. IMO people sometimes forget how big we are. It's an admirable trait. OKC's like the small dog with a lot of fight...but at the end of the day certain things will simply not be feasible here.
And for the record, (not directed towards anyone) please just stop with this "OKC needs giant freeways" nonsense. People who drive on the highways in Dallas and say this obviously have not done so in a daily commuting fashion. I would NEVER hope that OKC would need to get to the point where such things are needed, because IMO its only spured by poor development patterns.
I can appreciate large public works projects done right. But some of this stuff, like the new interchange at 35 and 635 is so ghastly, its pretty much blighting an entire section of town. Also, this is all being financed by some of the shadiest toll agreements...I have no idea how some of this stuff is legal. And its quite expensive. I work with people who have little choice but to take the Dallas North Tollway or SH 121, and their toll bills annually are over $3k. No suprise that there is definitely a backlash brewing with NTTA.now surely I wasn't in that "group"
JoninATX 08-13-2014, 08:06 PM I don't not get the need for some on this forum to consistently compare a metro area of 1.3 million to one with over 7 million. That's over 5 times the population. I wouldn't compare DFW to NYC or London, they are simply not in the same leauge. For the record, I think compared to other similar sized cities, OKC pulls its weight VERY well, at least now. IMO people sometimes forget how big we are. It's an admirable trait. OKC's like the small dog with a lot of fight...but at the end of the day certain things will simply not be feasible here.
And for the record, (not directed towards anyone) please just stop with this "OKC needs giant freeways" nonsense. People who drive on the highways in Dallas and say this obviously have not done so in a daily commuting fashion. I would NEVER hope that OKC would need to get to the point where such things are needed, because IMO its only spured by poor development patterns.
I can appreciate large public works projects done right. But some of this stuff, like the new interchange at 35 and 635 is so ghastly, its pretty much blighting an entire section of town. Also, this is all being financed by some of the shadiest toll agreements...I have no idea how some of this stuff is legal. And its quite expensive. I work with people who have little choice but to take the Dallas North Tollway or SH 121, and their toll bills annually are over $3k. No suprise that there is definitely a backlash brewing with NTTA.
My last post was about Austin and its growth. Both cities Austin and OKC is a better comparison than Dallas. That I will agree with.
Plutonic Panda 08-13-2014, 11:01 PM Let me also state, I am not trying to compare OKC to Dallas in proper scale.. I am merely saying there are a few things we can learn from Dallas.... or TxDOT in general. Building freeways or tollways would be one of those. Even Dallas is getting a 20 lane highway doesn't mean for us to model the same highway it has to be that wide. I am speaking in reference of how they toll, beautify the highway, having all exits on the lefthand side, using flyovers instead of cloverleafs etc.
Austin is another city we should look to and model ourselves from for certain things they do much better. Portland is another city we can look to to build a great street car network.
It isn't bad to look to a city for ideas just because they have a larger population than you do.
OKCisOK4me 08-13-2014, 11:20 PM I agree with the Portland model PluPan.
The Dallas model can suck it, though...
Sent from my Inspiron 7537 using Tapatalk
Plutonic Panda 08-13-2014, 11:21 PM The Dallas highway system or DART?
Geographer 08-14-2014, 08:51 AM It's a love/hate relationship with tolls. People have to understand that if they want that highway out to their home in Frisco then they might have to pay a toll to pay for the maintenance of that road. That's just how it is when the legislatures won't raise the gas tax.
adaniel 08-14-2014, 11:17 AM My last post was about Austin and its growth. Both cities Austin and OKC is a better comparison than Dallas. That I will agree with.
You are right, didn't mean to cause confusion. I was definitely in rant mode yesterday.
now surely I wasn't in that "group"
Trust me you are not the only one.
It's a love/hate relationship with tolls. People have to understand that if they want that highway out to their home in Frisco then they might have to pay a toll to pay for the maintenance of that road. That's just how it is when the legislatures won't raise the gas tax.
You won't get any disagreement from me here. Way too many people see cheap McManisions out in Prosper, Little Elm, etc. and don't calculate the true cost of ownership. With that in mind, I think something is very wrong when you start trying to convert a paid-for HOV lane into a toll-only express lane as with what is being proposed with 75 and 35E.
JoninATX 08-15-2014, 12:23 AM Ah no worries Adaniel, comparing OKC to Dallas is like night and day.
Teo9969 08-15-2014, 02:22 AM I am speaking in reference of how they toll, beautify the highway, having all exits on the lefthand side, using flyovers instead of cloverleafs etc.
:ohno:
Teo9969 08-15-2014, 02:28 AM I think the thing OKC needs to learn from Dallas, more than anything else, is what to do with Uptown. Nobody in OKC cares and probably won't for a very long time, about 50th and Rockwell.
But Dallas has a 10 to 15 year head-start on the areas that are similar to OKC's "Inner-Loop". We need to figure out what to do with the triangular area between 235, NW 23rd, and I-44. There are some things Dallas has done well in their "uptown" areas, and some things they've done poorly. We can learn a lot by copying what they've done right and fixing/re-imagining what they did wrong.
Plutonic Panda 08-15-2014, 04:07 AM :ohno:excuse me.... I meant the right side of the highway
OKCisOK4me 08-15-2014, 12:50 PM The Dallas highway system or DART?
Both. OKC is more Portlandish...without the scenic river and mountains and clouds and fog AND Portland is like a mega Austin with all its weirdness and OKC is definitely starting to get that weirdness going on.
Plutonic Panda 08-16-2014, 02:23 PM Here's an update to the major highway projects in DFW and North Texas. I'll update this page with some projects later tonight.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t1.0-9/10559831_10203541362127195_7400249856237193911_n.j pg
http://www.keepitmovingdallas.com/sites/default/files/docs/0273_040814_Dallas%20District%20Projects_WEBSITE%2 0White%20Paper.pdf
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t1.0-9/10577203_10203541361967191_5644294646223808722_n.j pg
https://www.dallaschamber.org/files/2014DFWFactSheet/AroundtheRegion%20-%20Major%20Transportation%20Construction%20Project s2%20-%20180-181.pdf
More large highway projects, and toll lanes, on the horizon for North Texas - Dallas Business Journal (http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/blog/2014/05/more-large-highway-projects-and-toll-lanes-on-the.html?s=image_gallery)
Plutonic Panda 08-16-2014, 02:25 PM LBJ Express Interchange
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10360538_10203541376247548_8069259672245752326_n.j pg?oh=8f1166e677578f930dcdd4a5934b51f0&oe=546CF339&__gda__=1415268399_97c8794a18bb3bb3ec3f35b90041109 4
Plutonic Panda 08-16-2014, 02:29 PM New Richards Group HQ Update from Kingpin on DFWU
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5591/14691517638_7f41c9fb61_h.jpg
Richards Group HQ (~238 FT) - Page 4 (http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/showthread.php/103184-Richards-Group-HQ-(-238-FT)?p=508776&viewfull=1#post508776)
Plutonic Panda 08-16-2014, 02:32 PM Architects: Building Trinity Tollway would pass a mess to our grandkids | Dallas Morning News (http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/latest-columns/20140721-architects-building-trinity-tollway-would-pass-a-mess-to-our-grandkids.ece)
Plutonic Panda 08-16-2014, 02:42 PM I-345 tear down proposal update Cover story: Who will cash in on I-345? - Dallas Business Journal (http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/print-edition/2014/08/01/cover-story-who-will-cash-in-on-i-345.html?ama=sm_dal_upc43&b=1406822607%5E15100761)
Plutonic Panda 08-19-2014, 04:55 PM Really cool!
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t1.0-9/10561695_925531337473599_5471353233765628723_n.jpg
The inaugural DART train to Terminal A arrived at 3:50 this morning, with greeters from DFW and DART. Theresa M., a United Airlines employee, was the first passenger.
- http://dfwairport.com/pressroom/DFW_and_DART_Connect_DFW_to_Dallas.php
- https://www.facebook.com/DFWAirport/photos/a.122819071078167.18752.122783807748360/925531337473599/?type=1
JoninATX 08-19-2014, 09:00 PM It's official. Now when someone flies into DFW, they have the option of taking light rail. Also this is going to help DART increase ridership. :)
bluedogok 08-19-2014, 09:42 PM I think the thing OKC needs to learn from Dallas, more than anything else, is what to do with Uptown. Nobody in OKC cares and probably won't for a very long time, about 50th and Rockwell.
But Dallas has a 10 to 15 year head-start on the areas that are similar to OKC's "Inner-Loop". We need to figure out what to do with the triangular area between 235, NW 23rd, and I-44. There are some things Dallas has done well in their "uptown" areas, and some things they've done poorly. We can learn a lot by copying what they've done right and fixing/re-imagining what they did wrong.
When I lived in Dallas, Uptown was only the Travis-Knox area with empty lots everywhere. I looked at houses near the "M Streets" area just north of Mockingbird Lane around Skillman, they were still somewhat affordable at that time. That neighborhood kind of reminded me of the one behind Deaconess Hospital west of Portland.
Plutonic Panda 09-17-2014, 09:43 PM Dallas Area Rapid Transit adding service for fair - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/26554567/dallas-area-rapid-transit-adding-service-for-fair)
Chicken In The Rough 10-25-2014, 10:27 AM Exclusive: Turkish developer to buy land near Dallas City Hall for $1.2B multitower project
Exclusive: Turkish developer to buy land near Dallas City Hall for $1.2B sky-high project - Dallas Business Journal (http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2014/10/24/exclusive-turkish-developer-to-buy-land-near.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+bizj_dallas+%28Dallas+Busines s+Journal%29)
2 80 story towers + 2 60 story towers behind city hall.
Wowee.
2 80 story towers -- would likely be the tallest buildings in the country outside of New York and Chicago.
okclee 10-25-2014, 10:44 AM Wait, is this supposed to make Dallas jealous or is it the other way around.... I kid, I kid.
bchris02 10-25-2014, 10:45 AM Yeah. While a development this big is out of OKC's league, I definitely envy Dallas for getting it. This is like the Stage Center development x5.
ljbab728 10-25-2014, 08:41 PM That sounds like an amazingly low cost for a project like that given that the Devon Energy Center cost was about $750M.
bluedogok 10-25-2014, 11:05 PM Will it look like this?
http://centraltrack.com/images/articlePhotos/5592_11.jpg
Plutonic Panda 10-26-2014, 12:54 AM Will it look like this?
http://centraltrack.com/images/articlePhotos/5592_11.jpgprobably not but that's an awesome building whatever it is
ljbab728 10-26-2014, 01:15 AM probably not but that's an awesome building whatever it is
LOL, plupan. That's the Dallas city hall. Are you sure you've been to Dallas before? :D
Plutonic Panda 10-26-2014, 03:16 AM LOL, plupan. That's the Dallas city hall. Are you sure you've been to Dallas before? :Dhuh.... I don't recognize it all. It's a beautiful building though.
BTW, I used to live in Dallas. Well, more technically Richardson ... Campbell and Hillcrest Road. I really liked it. Literally pretty much every road was six lanes. Traffic flowed great and I still walked everywhere.
bluedogok 10-26-2014, 01:39 PM It's the I.M. Pei Dallas City Hall building (a horrible building layout) with the OCP tower rendered on top of it from the original RoboCop movie which was filmed in Dallas. Here is what it really looks like.
http://www.bluffton.edu/~sullivanm/texas/dallas/cityhall/angledistant.jpg
I lived on Forest Lane just east of 635 and Audelia (Snug Harbor apartments), back then (91-93) it was a pretty decent area. My uncle lives near Preston & Campbell, that is where I stayed when I was working there in 2004 commuting from Austin.
progressiveboy 10-26-2014, 03:20 PM Here is another tower development that will take place near Klyde Warren Park! Another impressive win for Dallas!
Tower complex planned near Klyde Warren Park | Dallas Morning News (http://www.dallasnews.com/business/commercial-real-estate/headlines/20141024-tower-complex-planned-near-klyde-warren-park.ece)
dankrutka 10-26-2014, 04:05 PM BTW, I used to live in Dallas. Well, more technically Richardson ... Campbell and Hillcrest Road. I really liked it. Literally pretty much every road was six lanes. Traffic flowed great and I still walked everywhere.
Well, I live in DFW now and the traffic pretty much everywhere is unbearable.
Plutonic Panda 10-26-2014, 04:09 PM Well, I live in DFW now and the traffic pretty much everywhere is unbearable.
During rush hour, yes, it's like any other major city. The traffic still flows better, imo. Traffic in pretty much any part flows better than Edmond on any given day. I still go to Dallas quite often and thinking of going tonight.
dankrutka 10-26-2014, 05:17 PM During rush hour, yes, it's like any other major city. The traffic still flows better, imo. Traffic in pretty much any part flows better than Edmond on any given day. I still go to Dallas quite often and thinking of going tonight.
Not just during rush hour. I've been stuck in bumper-to-bumper traffic at 9am on a Sunday morning and at midnight on Wednesday night. I lived in Edmond and I live in DFW now. I'd take Edmond traffic every day of the week. Traffic in DFW does not "flow" well at all.
ChrisHayes 10-26-2014, 06:59 PM Dallas is an awesome city, and as much as I'd like OKC to have this kind of development, I wouldn't want the associated traffic. I'll stick with OKC :)
bluedogok 10-26-2014, 07:12 PM It was bad enough when I lived there in 91-93, it was amazing how much worse it got in 10 years. I rarely took highways when I lived there but then Central was under construction the entire time.
NWOKCGuy 10-26-2014, 07:18 PM During rush hour, yes, it's like any other major city. The traffic still flows better, imo. Traffic in pretty much any part flows better than Edmond on any given day. I still go to Dallas quite often and thinking of going tonight.
I don't know what parts of Dallas you're going through but this hasn't been my experience in Dallas, Fort Worth, Arlington or any of the inner ring suburbs.
Plutonic Panda 10-26-2014, 08:02 PM Not just during rush hour. I've been stuck in bumper-to-bumper traffic at 9am on a Sunday morning and at midnight on Wednesday night. I lived in Edmond and I live in DFW now. I'd take Edmond traffic every day of the week. Traffic in DFW does not "flow" well at all.Ok, well, I just disagree. I was stuck in bumper to bumper traffic this summer in OKC at 2 am on I-35 for some reason. Never saw any construction, although I did get off of the highway. Dallas has great traffic compared to other cities I've experienced, namely Houston.
Dallas's traffic is no walk in the park, but for a metroplex that has nearly 7 million people, I'd say the majority of the time outside of rush hour, its traffic flows pretty good. Like I said before, I multiple times a month, and the last time I was caught in any major traffic was in August and that was because I went during rush hour. Hell, since that, the traffic I experience on I-35 going from downtown OKC to I-240 has been worse than anything I've experienced in Dallas the last couple of months, except the time I mentioned above.
Two exceptions to that, I will say, is coming into Dallas on I-35 North and 635 and North Dallas Tollway is usually backed up due to construction.
Again, this is a forum board and people tend to love to make up crap and throw words in other people's mouth, so let me state this to be clear: Dallas does not have light traffic by any means. For a city of almost 7 million people, a city that is heavily traveled by car, its traffic flows good given those two variables.
My Edmond VS. Dallas traffic comment should be kept in scale here. I was merely pointing out that traffic in Edmond does not flow much faster than Dallas and were talking about a city that has 1.3 million vs. a city that has 6.6 million. I was not trying to imply Dallas has better traffic than Edmond or vice versa. You can't really properly compare the two. Speed limits in Edmond are way lower than what they should be, way too many traffic signals, traffic lights and flow that is not as advanced, slower drivers or slower paced drivers, narrow roads, etc. are all things that make traffic flow as slow it does in Edmond.
Plutonic Panda 10-26-2014, 08:06 PM I don't know what parts of Dallas you're going through but this hasn't been my experience in Dallas, Fort Worth, Arlington or any of the inner ring suburbs.Well, I generally stick to downtown Dallas, Frisco, Richardson, Arlington, Grand Prairie, and Plano. Outside of shopping, I usually just go chill at Highland Park, Uptown, or North Dallas as that's where my friends and relatives reside.
adaniel 10-27-2014, 10:45 AM Exclusive: Turkish developer to buy land near Dallas City Hall for $1.2B multitower project
Exclusive: Turkish developer to buy land near Dallas City Hall for $1.2B sky-high project - Dallas Business Journal (http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2014/10/24/exclusive-turkish-developer-to-buy-land-near.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+bizj_dallas+%28Dallas+Busines s+Journal%29)2 80 story towers + 2 60 story towers behind city hall.
Color me VERY skeptical.
This guy owns a building near Dallas City Hall that was supposed to be fixed up but he's had trouble getting the funds to do that. And I'm supposed to believe that he now has the money to do something like this?
The sale of the land has not even closed on this property. And even though DTD is gentrifying, office vacancy is around 25%. There are a handful of prime class A office buildings that even exceed that figure. In comparison, OKC's downtown class A vancancy is under 2%. Heck, there are several older buildings in DTD that are completely empty.
It's clear what this guy is doing: buying up land, probably hiring an architect to do a fancy rendering, all to drum up investor interest, possibly to even flip the land in question. This is par for the course in Dallas.
This story is so egregious I'm stunned the Dallas Business Journal even published it. How nobody's bull**** alarm in their newsroom went off is beyond me.
Also, $1.2 billion isn't nearly enough for what they are proposing.
Devon spent $750 million on their complex that featured one 50-story building. They are talking about two at 80 stories and two more at 60; so almost six times the number of floors for 50% more money. Doesn't add up.
cagoklahoma 10-27-2014, 11:27 AM Well maybe they didn't calculate the exchange rate properly. I'm estimating that it will cost $102,840,000,000,000 that's 102.8 Trillion Turkish Lira (Old). Does that help?
warreng88 10-27-2014, 11:28 AM Also, $1.2 billion isn't nearly enough for what they are proposing.
Devon spent $750 million on their complex that featured one 50-story building. They are talking about two at 80 stories and two more at 60; so almost six times the number of floors for 50% more money. Doesn't add up.
Shell buildings with buildouts paid for by the lessee?
Geographer 10-27-2014, 11:34 AM The Dallas City Hall and surrounding plaza may be the worst complex I've ever experienced in terms of pedestrian friendliness and inviting to the public. There are barricades all around, the plaza is virtually devoid of any human life, and the design of the building makes you feel very intimidated. It does not scream "I am so proud to be a citizen of the City of Dallas".
Also, I live in D/FW and the traffic sucks...it's also quite dangerous. 2,500 deaths on Texas highways so far in 2014....love those highways!
Bellaboo 10-27-2014, 12:08 PM My sister and B-I-L live on the North fringe of Ft Worth. They are retired, and their rule of thumb for driving is after 9:00 am mornings and never between 3:00 pm and 7:00 pm. That's how they cope with it.
adaniel 10-27-2014, 12:52 PM The Dallas City Hall and surrounding plaza may be the worst complex I've ever experienced in terms of pedestrian friendliness and inviting to the public. There are barricades all around, the plaza is virtually devoid of any human life, and the design of the building makes you feel very intimidated. It does not scream "I am so proud to be a citizen of the City of Dallas".
So I take it you're not a fan of Brutalist Chic :-)
And yes, whoever says traffic in Dallas should be slapped into reality. Yesterday, I got stuck on the Dallas North Tollway...took me 20 minutes to go about 6 miles for no apparent reason like a wreck or construction. This is a Sunday afternoon btw. And for this convienence I was charged $3.00....YAY!
Its absolutely stunning to me that this is what some people want for OKC.
Plutonic Panda 10-27-2014, 02:09 PM So I take it you're not a fan of Brutalist Chic :-)
And yes, whoever says traffic in Dallas should be slapped into reality. Yesterday, I got stuck on the Dallas North Tollway...took me 20 minutes to go about 6 miles for no apparent reason like a wreck or construction. This is a Sunday afternoon btw. And for this convienence I was charged $3.00....YAY!
Its absolutely stunning to me that this is what some people want for OKC.oh my god. I completely give up trying to explain what I mean. If you think Dallas has bad traffic, go to L.A. . . . .or better yet, drive to Houston. But if you want to see bad traffic, fly to L.A. I've been going there the past few months for a venture I'm looking into and THAT is bad traffic.
Funny, I just got back from Dallas and while I was there I asked a couple friends how traffic was lately in Dallas and they said nothing major. The obvious backups such as rush hour and construction areas, but it wasn't horrible. I have not even once experienced bad traffic on Sunday since I lived there in 2008 with the only exception in the past 6 years being once when construction started to ramp up on the 635 widening project.
Anyone saying Dallas has horrible traffic should be slapped into reality. It has rush hour traffic like any other city. I don't care if you built a 50 lane highway, traffic is going to back up in rush hour in any major city.
Also, did I say I wanted traffic like Dallas for OKC? I don't think so. I said I want roads and highways that are developed like they are in Dallas but kept into scale. Meaning we wouldn't need as wide as highways as they do, because their highways carry more cars, but flyover interchanges, service roads & Texas turnarounds, divided roads with medians, concrete roads, traffic lights that flash at night and give a red flash to the low traffic roads & yellow to low traffic roads etc....
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