For those who don't want to move it downtown (which I think is everyone except me), would you be upset if it did move downtown? If the headline in the Oklahoma tomorrow was "Cowboy Hall of Fame to Fill Former Journal Record Building" would there be protest in the streets?

http://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/r620-aadf92858db586cf12802cc421d3f857.jpg

How about: Western Heritage Center to Anchor Stage Center Tower Complex.

JTF. . .Asked and Answered. . .or "what is it about "no" you don't understand??

I really am hesitant about commenting but is the location of the CHF the business of OKC? It seems to me that we stood a chance of losing it to Colorado a few years ago. This treasure is not under our control, but a board of directors that are from several states. Not implying that OKC doesn't have some say in things, but on their own, they can't move it to a new location. Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm relying on a 70 year old senile mind.
C. T.

Surprisingly, there is pushback emerging on the telecommuting notion, for several reasons. First, businesses who early on embraced it are finding out it does create a non-trivial practical problem for work groups who have mismatched telecommuting and/or in-office schedules. Secondly, some businesses translate the telecommuting notion as a leverage into the private homes of individuals such that they try to mandate work environments in the individual's home, eg ergonomic compliance, safety compliance, etc. etc., and no, I'm not kidding on that one. Thirdly, security departments are finding out that using anything other than a company-provided device for access back to a "corporate" network opens up huge risks for malevolent third-party access - and even using a company provided device is anything but a panacea when connected to an otherwise untrusted network hosted and operated by the telecommuting employee.

Not saying that telecommuting is disappearing, of course, but its going through a phase of "ideal versus reality," and the notion that it will become truly ubiquitous such that it diminishes actual, physical office occupation is proving to be overly optimistic. You'll see (and are seeing) companies that are limiting which jobs and individuals are even eligible to participate in a telecommuting environment.

Husband has been telecommuting for years and has a designated home office, equipment and big time limits on what can and can't be on the computer, phone or web. No wireless, etc. He couldn't access his office computers on another device if he wanted to. It has worked beautifully for him and he deals with a lot of confidential matters. As for the safety issues, yeah, I can see how this could be a problem for some employees, especially the ones looking to win the grievance lottery.

In DC, they used to have satellite offices on the outskirts of the beltway and had employees work there several days a week so they wouldn't have to come all the way into town. The idea was that this would be a tremendous benefit to people who couldn't afford to live inside the beltway/didn't want to fight the traffic and would still have all the facilities and supervision deemed appropriate for employees. I don't think that worked very well. However, there are a lot of employees like my husband scattered all over the country with his agency and we haven't heard of any problem. They've been doing this for years. Likely, it has to do with the type of job and sensible vetting of appropriate employees who are self motivated and trustworthy. I personally can think of several people who are good friends and in my immediate family who commute. Even my lawyer kids dealing with confidential material do a lot of telecommuting and the trend is definitely expanding.

Obviously, telecommuting isn't for everyone and not even a majority. But my point, to get back to the original claim that young employees don't want to drive so businesses need to be in walking/biking distance, is that telecommuting is an option to fill the gap for employees who don't drive and don't want to. Presumably, they would either get motivated to drive or go the telecommuting route if they want a job. But I have to say, the notion that we aren't going to have jobs filled unless we provide walking or biking commutes because people don't care to drive strikes me as a first world problem that reeks of an elite and prosperous workforce. Would that we had such a strong economy that young people could afford to turn their noses up to a good job if it meant having to drive across town to get there.

For those who don't want to move it downtown (which I think is everyone except me), would you be upset if it did move downtown? If the headline in the Oklahoma tomorrow was "Cowboy Hall of Fame to Fill Former Journal Record Building" would there be protest in the streets?

http://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/r620-aadf92858db586cf12802cc421d3f857.jpg

How about: Western Heritage Center to Anchor Stage Center Tower Complex.

Yes. Definitely. The people going to the CHF, in large part, would rather be shot than go downtown. They hate the traffic and if they have to drive, anyway (and most would), the last thing they want is to have to fight the DT streets, look for parking, etc. For many, it is stressful to even think of going downtown.

The CHF in an urban building and location is pretty much antithetical.

I really am hesitant about commenting but is the location of the CHF the business of OKC? It seems to me that we stood a chance of losing it to Colorado a few years ago. This treasure is not under our control, but a board of directors that are from several states. Not implying that OKC doesn't have some say in things, but on their own, they can't move it to a new location. Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm relying on a 70 year old senile mind.
C. T.

I think it more likely we would lose it to a pastoral location in another city before it would move itself into a dense urban setting and facility here.

The CHF in an urban building and location is pretty much antithetical.

That's a purt' near, danged perfect summary o' the imaginary situation . . .
(and if it ain't "antithetical" it's at least oxymornical)

No person slur intended nor implied, JTF. No kidding, No sh!t.
(quit tryin' to hack through the jungle of okie public opinion and go back to urban design =)
(or that "where's waldo" map game you were working on. it was really good)

Anyone notice how the people who want to keep it where it is haven't been there in years and those of us who would like to go want it in a more convenient location? If you owned a business and the people who want to frequent your store want you to move and the people who don't visit your business want you to stay - who would you listen to?

Wrong. I go to that museum at least a half-dozen times a year. I would also possibly stand to personally benefit as much or more than anyone posting here for downtown to be the recipient of a new world-class attraction. And yet I am categorically against the idea of swiping it. It's OK, even preferable, for a city to have more than one area of interest.

In the case of the Adventure District, having a second area somewhat dense with attractions helps visitors justify extending their stays in and around OKC. If everything were in one place, people would feel they had seen it all in a shorter amount of time. As it stands, the OKC metro makes for an exceptional, family-oriented hub-and-spoke destination, including previously-mentioned and unmentioned attractions in other parts such as Norman, Shawnee, Guthrie, and Stillwater. Visit Welcome to Central Oklahoma Frontier Country - Central Oklahoma Frontier Country (http://www.oktourism.com) to find out more about the attractions in Oklahoma's 12 central counties.

Tourism, the third-largest industry in the state, is an excellent source for the new revenue that can help fund our other ambitions.

But please, let's stop this nonsensical discussion. It only gives fuel to mkjeeves and his paranoid anti-downtown agenda.

The CHF in an urban building and location is pretty much antithetical.

Nearly every western I have ever seen takes place in a high density walkable town of some sort. The CHF even went so far as to recreate a western Main St.

Nearly every western I have ever seen takes place in a high density walkable town of some sort. The CHF even went so far as to recreate a western Main St.It's walkable because there were no cars to transport people long distances in short time. There was no choice.

Yes. Definitely. The people going to the CHF, in large part, would rather be shot than go downtown. They hate the traffic and if they have to drive, anyway (and most would), the last thing they want is to have to fight the DT streets, look for parking, etc. For many, it is stressful to even think of going downtown.Great post and I agree with you. It would be very upsetting if this museum were moved downtown and would make absolutely no sense.

I really am hesitant about commenting but is the location of the CHF the business of OKC? It seems to me that we stood a chance of losing it to Colorado a few years ago. This treasure is not under our control, but a board of directors that are from several states. Not implying that OKC doesn't have some say in things, but on their own, they can't move it to a new location. Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm relying on a 70 year old senile mind.
C. T.

You are on the mark CT!!

Wrong. I go to that museum at least a half-dozen times a year. I would also possibly stand to personally benefit as much or more than anyone posting here for downtown to be the recipient of a new world-class attraction. And yet I am categorically against the idea of swiping it. It's OK, even preferable, for a city to have more than one area of interest.

In the case of the Adventure District, having a second area somewhat dense with attractions helps visitors justify extending their stays in and around OKC. If everything were in one place, people would feel they had seen it all in a shorter amount of time. As it stands, the OKC metro makes for an exceptional, family-oriented hub-and-spoke destination, including previously-mentioned and unmentioned attractions in other parts such as Norman, Shawnee, Guthrie, and Stillwater. Visit Welcome to Central Oklahoma Frontier Country - Central Oklahoma Frontier Country (http://www.oktourism.com) to find out more about the attractions in Oklahoma's 12 central counties.

Tourism, the third-largest industry in the state, is an excellent source for the new revenue that can help fund our other ambitions.

But please, let's stop this nonsensical discussion. It only gives fuel to mkjeeves and his paranoid anti-downtown agenda.

I love downtown. It's the downtownistas I can't stand.

I think we should move lake Hefner downtown too, now that I think about it. And move WillRogers Airport there too. And the University of Oklahoma. Think what's massing we could get if we move Tinker AFB. Yeah.. Everything should be downtown for sure.

I do remember the old west town in the basement way back when. Four years ago, when I last went, the museum is a whole new animal from what it was in the 70's. No way should it move to downtown!

I love downtown. It's the downtownistas I can't stand.

In that case, please note that even most of the run-of-the-mill "downtownistas" (myself included, I suppose) object to this idea. I don't think this idea is 100% JUST a chain-yanker, but JTF does like to be provocative for the sake of being provocative, at times.

No, he is serious. You're going to lose your Downtownista Card if you keep this up.

Nearly every western I have ever seen takes place in a high density walkable town of some sort. The CHF even went so far as to recreate a western Main St.

Wasn't Manifest Destiny the ultimate order to sprawl? Sprawl not only out of the cities of the east but sprawl out of places in Europe where some had no hope of ever having a place of their own?

But it was way beyond sprawl. Sprawl assumes one is still a part of a city and The West was most certainly not about being part of a city, but being independent.

Start maybe here, the myth and legend, and work towards reality, what the west really was and what it meant for the other. Frontier myth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontier_myth)

Next time you go to the CHF try to figure out what belongs to which category, the real west, the mythological west or both.

I don't think this idea is 100% JUST a chain-yanker, but JTF does like to be provocative for the sake of being provocative, at times.

One thing I have learned over the years - in order to take 2 steps forward try to take 4 steps. Anyhow, this topic has probably run its course for now.

No, he is serious. You're going to lose your Downtownista Card if you keep this up.

Nah...I was downtown before downtown was cool.

One thing I have learned over the years - in order to take 2 steps forward try to take 4 steps. Anyhow, this topic has probably run its course for now.

I agree on both counts! :D

One thing I have learned over the years - in order to take 2 steps forward try to take 4 steps. Anyhow, this topic has probably run its course for now.So JTF, lets say this was to be built downtown... how would you build it(would you create a super block and surround it with wildlife and trees to block the urban view), would you urbanize it and place everything inside of it, and where would you put it?

The diagram, above, reminds me of a lecture by a local architect that I got to attend back in '70 (or so). He was really against the idea of having garage doors face the street. He said: "All that this type of residential design says is, 'cars live here'." I agreed with him then and I agree with him now. (and, by extension, agree with you, too.)

If The Cowboy Hall of Fame (and Western Heritage Museum) were to be moved Downtown--rather than across the freeway or out around Frontier City--I would hope they provide an appropriate number of hitchin' posts.

As I said, previously, it won't be long (relatively speaking) before Downtown surrounds the existing location of The Museum. In my opinion, developmental design parameters should be considered carefully.
I hate the garage door to the alley style that is so prevalent in Dallas, it denies the fact that there are usually more cars than driveway since the driveways are non-existent so the cars end up parked on the street in front of the houses creating the situation that they tried to get away from 40 years ago when the design was popularized. It also says that no one can see what is going on in the garage, so open the door, back in and unload my house....too many co-workers in Dallas had that happen to them in the "nice neighborhoods".

I do like the detached garage in the back style with a narrower driveway from the street like my great-grandparents house in Heritage Hills had.

Law of unintended consequences

So JTF, lets say this was to be built downtown... how would you build it(would you create a super block and surround it with wildlife and trees to block the urban view), would you urbanize it and place everything inside of it, and where would you put it?

Since this would be a cultural facility it would need to be built in a place of honor and visibility, preferably providing a terminal view, or as part of a cultural mall. A couple of places that come to mind are on the original Convention Center site with the power substation or maybe even at the south end of Promenade Park (the portion of Central Park south of I-40) along the river. This would actually allow for the 'Cowboys and Indians' to be connected by a water taxi. Throw a small paddle wheeler on the Oklahoma River connecting the two and you could really have something (or at least make the Devon riverboats useful).

JTF, that would be a great idea. I look forward to the Central Park when the adjacant buildings are in "full swing". I think the lower park (30ac) is a perfect setting for a heritage museum that incorporates a World Class exhibit. ... Maybe an Energy Museum? ...w/ the Energy Tower.

...I like the "interaction" w/ the AICC, I can see that being something we could really be proud of. Two seperate stories coming together....I like it.

One thing I have learned over the years - in order to take 2 steps forward try to take 4 steps. Anyhow, this topic has probably run its course for now.

Sometimes step 3 takes one over the cliff when they can't see the canyon.

One thing I have learned over the years - in order to take 2 steps forward try to take 4 steps. Anyhow, this topic has probably run its course for now.

http://demotivators.despair.com/demotivational/revelationdemotivator.jpg

Nearly every western I have ever seen takes place in a high density walkable town of some sort. The CHF even went so far as to recreate a western Main St.

They have one indoors. Go see it, you might like it. In fact, that little indoor town is the URBAN CORE of the museum.