I haven't checked a map but I'm going to guess it's closer distance between downtown and the Cowboy Hall in OKC than it is between the Art Institute of Chicago and Sheed Aquarium.

Everything in OKC doesn't need to be right smack dab downtown. It's beyond ridiculous at this point.

Clearly on OKCTalk I am in the minority on this topic - but that is nothing new for me. When a group of people are trudging though the jungle someone has to be on point hacking away at the bushes.

KW5OeU1jOVw

I hear you, but to me, something like this is totally unnecessary. Kind of like building a dome on the capitol building "just because we have to have one", even though it is not uncommon as there were 10 or 11 other capitol buildings around the country without domes.

I agree with the earlier statement that not everything has to be located downtown.

If they moved Persimmon Hill and The Cowboy Hall of Fame and Western Heritage Museum to the south side of the adjacent highway, wouldn't that put it all within the ancient and honorable Grand Boulevard Loop and, therefore, in the uptown part of downtown?

They could also move what used to be The Oklahoma County Line BBQ--and is now part of the Krebs Urban Sprawl known as Gabriella's--at the same time.

Maybe they could rebuild that old A&W that used to be out there as well.

if you gonna dream, dream big. right?

I beg to differ SoonerDave. By moving it downtown I think it would heighten its profile and awareness in the City and becomes more a part of community than ever before - but that is just me.

JTF, it probalbly would help it's (new business) daily foot-traffic. The out-a-towner might frequent it more. As a local, I enjoy the current location on the hill.

If therer is another / new museum that could incorporate the "Stockyards" district & on the river, would be a great location for something of heritage.

I've been to the cowboy hall of fame within the last 2 years and live in midtown. No way would I move it downtown. It's great the way it's setup in the current location and I couldn't really see it being rebuilt downtown. Besides, wouldn't it create another dreaded superblock?

If they moved Persimmon Hill and The Cowboy Hall of Fame and Western Heritage Museum to the south side of the adjacent highway, wouldn't that put it all within the ancient and honorable Grand Boulevard Loop and, therefore, in the uptown part of downtown?

They could also move what used to be The Oklahoma County Line BBQ--and is now part of the Krebs Urban Sprawl known as Gabriella's--at the same time.

Maybe they could rebuild that old A&W that used to be out there as well.

if you gonna dream, dream big. right?

I don't remember what's across the highway but I'd vote to put the new OG&E tower there and leave the museum where it is.

I don't remember what's across the highway but I'd vote to put the new OG&E tower there and leave the museum where it is.

Directly across the interstate is a patch of woods butting up to the Wildwood neighborhood if I'm not mistaken. Across 63rd they've got a campus of some sort (eta National Guard training) and I think there used to be a place for weddings over there (ie, pretty) if I'm not mistaken (eta Ciles a Garden). Lovely area with rocks, hills and trees. I now live on the SW side of town and it doesn't come close to how pretty it is over there.

Directly across the interstate is a patch of woods butting up to the Wildwood neighborhood if I'm not mistaken. Across 63rd they've got a campus of some sort (eta National Guard training) and I think there used to be a place for weddings over there (ie, pretty) if I'm not mistaken (eta Ciles a Garden). Lovely area with rocks, hills and trees. I now live on the SW side of town and it doesn't come close to how pretty it is over there.

Was called Coles Garden when it opened. It was owned by the founder of W&W Steel, IIRC. The big iron gates out front were actually from France and at one time were part of one of Napoleons retreats.

The Thunderbird Chapter of the Telephone Pioneers of which I'm a member used to have their monthly luncheons at the CHOF. I never went to one of those either. So is there a restaurant there or some kind of dining facility?
Before I moved to Austin the last few Benham Christmas parties were out there and it was a very nice facility. It was large enough to handle the size of our party that had pretty much outgrown every other place it was held. My father still goes to the parties (retirees are invited) and I think the last few years they have had it at the Skirvin.


Anyone notice how the people who want to keep it where it is haven't been there in years and those of us who would like to go want it in a more convenient location? If you owned a business and the people who want to frequent your store want you to move and the people who don't visit your business want you to stay - who would you listen to?
More convenient for whom? For a large segment of the population having it downtown would be less convenient. I don't see a critical mass of people calling for it to be moved, are they willing to pay for the land, construction and move?

If you really want to go, you find a way to go, it's not like it is a 50 mile trip out to the facility. There are plenty of other museum type facilities in the immediate area to group a trip out there if that is just so far to travel for you.

Never going to happen. Silly idea to boot. It is fine where it is at. Nothing to be gained by moving. Downtown being convenient is a load of bilge rot. I regularly attend social functions at the Museum.

My prediction - this museum will be located within 1 mile of MBG by January 1, 2034 (20 years from now).

After several recent trips to cities with major downtown historic art centers I started thinking it would be a big boost for OKC if the National Cowboy Hall of Fame were to relocate downtown. Not only would this boost downtown but I think it would also be a huge boost to the prominence of the center as well. Right now it is off the beaten path and barely visible from the highway and in a less the lack luster facility. Any out-of-towners would have to know it existed and where it was to even go to it. A downtown location would really enhance the awareness of it and place it in close proximity to a dozen hotel (by definition filled with visitors and out of town guests) plus it could get regular viewing on Thunder TV breaks. Their web site claims 10 million visitors since 1955 which is just over 170,000 year. They should be at 5 times that amount if properly located.

A new building for it would have to be huge and grand - even larger than life, yet close enough to the existing core that many visitors could walk to it or access it via regional mass transit. They could even break it into 4 or 5 separate museums (art, firearms, Rodeo Hall of fame, and Western Performers) each with it own building arranged in a museum district. Through in a facility for the Photography Hall of Fame and you could create a very special place. Along the east side of Central Park, maybe even using the International Harvester building, would be perfect.

Thoughts?

I would rather see the Science Museum downtown personally. I like the Cowboy Hall of Fame where it's at. OKC should work on attracting a new tourist attraction to downtown, such as a real aquarium.

I guess I have to ask NoOkie - when is the last time you went, and how many times a year do you go downtown?JTF, you've asked a few times about people going downtown. I for one go downtown often. We go to Thunder games, Barons games, Redhawks games, concerts, Toby Keiths's, Bass Pro, etc. We go downtown for those things so no, having the Cowboy Hall Of Fame downtown would not be on our agenda when we go downtown for any of those reasons. Where it currently is we go at least once a year for some event or to just go. If it were downtown our visits would go down, not up.

You put a coffee/pastry shop, museum bookstore, and free wi-fi in it and you would have to beat them off with a stick.

Although the hours are limited to a long lunch period, (11 am - 2:30 pm) the food there isn't bad in quality or price. There is a bookstore and gift shop.
Uncertain as to wifi. Never wanted to be reached when I was there.

My prediction - this museum will be located within 1 mile of MBG by January 1, 2034 (20 years from now).

Isn't MGB a brand of coffee?

Say! Guthrie, OK, still has a walkable Urban Core. Why not relocate the Cowboy Hall of Fame (&whm) to Guthrie!
They could put it over by The Monument to Masonic Order. And right after that, they could move the Capitol Building which is currently outside of The OKCUC . . ! Maybe, in order to save costs and maintain a positive cost/value ratio, they could park the dome over by The Bank Monument to That Geodesic Dome Dude. For the opening ceremony they could import The State Seal from over around 50th and Eastern Avenue (formerly known as East Street, back in the beginning) . . . it likes the Zoo where it's at right now, but it would probably get over it. If it jumps high enough out of its pond, it can nearly glimpse the future former location of The Cowboy Hall of Fame.

(amigo: did you get bit by some weird bug or plant while hacking through the jungle?)

I've been to the cowboy hall of fame within the last 2 years and live in midtown. No way would I move it downtown. It's great the way it's setup in the current location and I couldn't really see it being rebuilt downtown. Besides, wouldn't it create another dreaded superblock?

70 story tower!!! Mystery Tower #3!!! /sarcasm

70 story tower!!! Mystery Tower #3!!! /sarcasm

Surrounded by every form of "bob wahr" ever created by mankind.
Including those who supplied The Cowboys . . . to maintain The Western Heritage.
As kinda some sorta museum . . ?

The Original Urbane Cowboy
BjLQ0p_3PFI

Moving the Cowboy Hall of Fame (&whm) downtown would only advance the causes of "Gentrification" and deprive "Po' Folk" of an easy opportunity to glean some experiential consciousness of a tiny bit of local history that makes OKC special.

The CHF isn't just an hour long tourist trip. If you are going to look at the exhibits and don't go frequently, you should set aside several hours. Due to the hard floors, by the time they are done, plenty of older people would be tired and want to rest before going to dinner. I usually see tour buses/group buses when I get there so plenty of people don't use a personal car. Further, relatives from out of town typically stay with family and aren't staying DT, anyway. If people spend hours at the CHF, chances are they aren't going to want to spend the second half of the day rushing around hitting a bunch of other museums/standing activities, anyway. That's the kind of activity to spend half a day, go out to a nice meal and veg otherwise.

My prediction is that by January 1, 2034 a Sasquatch will be discovered living in the MBG.

I beg to differ SoonerDave. By moving it downtown I think it would heighten its profile and awareness in the City and becomes more a part of community than ever before - but that is just me.

Say! I've got an idea!! Why don't They just park all this stuff out by the airport?
It might allow for the demolition of all the neighborhoods whose denizens bitch about noise from the airplanes to make room for the relocation of Local Cultural Treasures for out-of-towners and those just a-passin' thru.

dang. this here "Sims" deal is approaching the absurdity of "Dungeons and Dragons" . . .

My prediction - this museum will be located within 1 mile of MBG by January 1, 2034 (20 years from now).

Kerry, I"ll put that right behind your 2020 prediction as something that won't happen. Of course, I won't still be around to tell you so in 2034 like I will in 2020. :)

Kerry, I"ll put that right behind your 2020 prediction as something that won't happen. Of course, I won't still be around to tell you so in 2034 like I will in 2020. :)

You can't get out of it that easy. If CHF is at its current location on Jan 1, 2034 I'll wheel you around it. :)

On a serious note - I think the CHF will succumb to the forces of reurbanization just as all other aspects of society are. If they are going to want visitors in 20 years they are going to have to locate where those visitors are because those people won't be driving. 26% of millennials don't even have drivers licenses and that number is growing while over 55% of people under 20 don't have a drivers license.

Why Young People Are Driving Less - Motor Trend (http://www.motortrend.com/features/auto_news/2012/1208_why_young_people_are_driving_less/)

You can't get out of it that easy. If CHF is at its current location on Jan 1, 2034 I'll wheel you around it. :)

On a serious note - I think the CHF will succumb to the forces of reurbanization just as all other aspects of society are. If they are going to want visitors in 20 years they are going to have to locate where those visitors are because those people won't be driving. 26% of millennials don't even have drivers licenses and that number is growing while over 55% of people under 20 don't have them.

Why Young People Are Driving Less - Motor Trend (http://www.motortrend.com/features/auto_news/2012/1208_why_young_people_are_driving_less/)

I don't think you are factoring in:
1) Autonomous Automobiles
2) Advances in Virtual Reality that will allow a traveler to experience The National Cowboy Hall of Fame and Western Heritage Museum through the Google Glasses of The Cowboy Docent actually on site. (without moving the museum and simply stepping into the happy, happy holodeck at the airport or on the airplane).

Side note: The highway adjacent to The Museum (formerly Grand Blvd./Sorta Route 66) done stayed tore up for about two decades after I moved here due to improvements that involved making things better by making them worse. The only worster stretch of Local Road around here I can think of is I-35 between OKC and Norman.

You can't get out of it that easy. If CHF is at its current location on Jan 1, 2034 I'll wheel you around it. :)

On a serious note - I think the CHF will succumb to the forces of reurbanization just as all other aspects of society are. If they are going to want visitors in 20 years they are going to have to locate where those visitors are because those people won't be driving. 26% of millennials don't even have drivers licenses and that number is growing while over 55% of people under 20 don't have a drivers license.

Why Young People Are Driving Less - Motor Trend (http://www.motortrend.com/features/auto_news/2012/1208_why_young_people_are_driving_less/)

I wish that would be possible, Kerry, but you would likely have to dig me up first. LOL

You can't get out of it that easy. If CHF is at its current location on Jan 1, 2034 I'll wheel you around it. :)

On a serious note - I think the CHF will succumb to the forces of reurbanization just as all other aspects of society are. If they are going to want visitors in 20 years they are going to have to locate where those visitors are because those people won't be driving. 26% of millennials don't even have drivers licenses and that number is growing while over 55% of people under 20 don't have a drivers license.

Why Young People Are Driving Less - Motor Trend (http://www.motortrend.com/features/auto_news/2012/1208_why_young_people_are_driving_less/)

It is like five miles from downtown, if there is a massive migration to downtown and halt of daily driving, I expect it would be much more likely we will be improving mass transit along the points of interest in the Adventure district (we already have a bus going there and we have a plausible corridor to get rail there too) and cab services would be likely be expanding if private vehicle ownership plummets.

On top of that if they wanted to be downtown by 2034, they would have to get started in the next few years because it will probably take at least a decade to collect that kind of funding, even just getting all the land acquisition and permitting would be lucky to be done in three to five years and construction will take a couple years too.

Sorry - I had to laugh out loud at the autonomous automobile line. You can't make this stuff up - I was watching a program on this just a few days ago and they were talking about doing this for Washington DC. They said DC was the worst traffic in the country due to the high number of employees who ride in single occupant car coupled with a 9 to 6 work schedule. Their solution to this congestion - autonomous single occupant vehicles. If the problem is single occupant vehicles how can the solution possibly be single occupant vehicles? I'll have to see if I can a link to that show because it was LOL-Stupid.

It is like five miles from downtown, if there is a massive switch in location of where people choose to live and halt daily driving, I expect it would be much more likely we will be improving mass transit along the points of interest in the Adventure district and increased cab services than the points of interest being relocated.

Mass transit doesn't work without density. It would be cheaper to move CHF than to run a rail line to it and deficit fund the route.

It is like five miles from downtown, if there is a massive switch in location of where people choose to live and halt daily driving, I expect it would be much more likely we will be improving mass transit along the points of interest in the Adventure district and cab services will continue to grow than the points of interest being relocated.

That's just crazy talk . . . =)

Okay I need to call it a night - have to go back to work in the morning, so let me end with this. As I have said several times, I don't think most people remotely comprehend the cultural/demographic shift that is about to take place. Our largest population is getting too old to drive and our second largest population doesn't want to drive. Businesses relying on a large parking lot are going to be screwed.

Okay I need to call it a night - have to go back to work in the morning, so let me end with this. As I have said several times, I don't think most people remotely comprehend the cultural/demographic shift that is about to take place. Our largest population is getting too old to drive and our second largest population doesn't want to drive. Businesses relying on a large parking lot are going to be screwed.

Nah. They'll just replat the lot and turn part of the parking into a bicycle repair business and another part in to a Starbucks de jure.

Nah. They'll just replat the lot and turn part of the parking into a bicycle repair business and another part in to a Starbucks de jure.

both contained within
flexible structures resembling
teepees or tipis.

perhaps even
wigwams or yurts.

resembling
a pre-medieval
fair with flair

and good sidewalks
for wokability

of free-range
chickens

Okay I need to call it a night - have to go back to work in the morning, so let me end with this. As I have said several times, I don't think most people remotely comprehend the cultural/demographic shift that is about to take place. Our largest population is getting too old to drive and our second largest population doesn't want to drive. Businesses relying on a large parking lot are going to be screwed.

If advances in automation keep putting people out of work, too many people won't be able to afford the cost of a museum ticket or the cost of the other attractions of the big city, including Thunder basketball. Won't happen soon, but will be one reason why CHF hasn't moved to downtown in 2034.

Some countries allow free access to museums to people who are on unemployment benefits. Why should a person be denied access to their country's history and culture just because they can't afford it?

Telecommuting will fill much of the non driving gap and when you don't have to commute at all, people can live where they please. Suburbs developed because people were looking for good, affordable housing and still be close enough to drive to work. DT living appeals to the well off and the subsidized poor. Nothing drives the face of income equality like a dense urban core and the wealthy make sure "those" people stay on the other side of the fence.

Some countries allow free access to museums to people who are on unemployment benefits. Why should a person be denied access to their country's history and culture just because they can't afford it?

Depends on whether it is a public or private enterprise, seems to me. Most museums are constantly fund raising and the filthy rich are the ones voluntarily subsidizing them so the unwashed poor have a museum to enjoy. Loved the free museums in Washington, DC, but their subsidies are tons better. Maybe they should do a little income redistribution and send all the museum treasures out to the fifty states so that the unwashed poor in, say, Arkansas, can reap the benefits and tourist dollars?

So maybe RM was right and people will just telecommute to museums in the future.

So maybe RM was right and people will just telecommute to museums in the future.

Yeah . . . It'll be sort of like the next step in merging Reality and the Virtual Version Thereof. One will even be able to imagine that the Cowboy Hall of Fame is Downtown instead of up on Persimmon Hill. =)

Sort of like The Matrix . . . yet not exactly the same.

I think the best solution is for OKC to begin changing our zoning laws so that all new construction within certain city boundaries (say, within the I-44 to I-240 loop) complies with urban design guidelines.

We aren't going to move everything cool downtown. However, new construction will take place in this city. We could ensure that when it does, it will eventually contribute to a more urban environment. As you said earlier, JTF, you have to start making history sometime. There's a ton of empty space out there by the CHF. At some point, someone will stick an apartment complex or four near it. If our design requirements result in the apartments looking more like this:

http://www.arlnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/650-glebe.jpg

than like this:

http://www.rejournals.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Willow-Creek-Estates.jpg

then we'll gradually make progress. Eliminate minimum parking requirements. Push all development up to the street. Parking lots cannot come up to the street and must go behind buildings, and cannot extend beyond the "width" of your building. Put in new sidewalks. Businesses must "face" the street. Things like that. These requirements are not particularly expensive. They will not drive away developers. It will actually increase density and encourage foot traffic.

It's not something that will change overnight. However we'll see significant effects after 10, 15, 20 years. These were all developments that were going to take place anyway. It just means that when something gets built, it will contribute to a small pocket of urbanization. At first it will just be a McDonald's on SW 50th and May. Then it will be a denist office on NE 36th and Eastern. But as areas go through their natural process of redevelopment, as buildings are torn down and new things are put in place, we'll gradually become a much more urban city.

I think the best solution is for OKC to begin changing our zoning laws so that all new construction within certain city boundaries (say, within the I-44 to I-240 loop) complies with urban design guidelines.

We aren't going to move everything cool downtown. However, new construction will take place in this city. We could ensure that when it does, it will eventually contribute to a more urban environment. As you said earlier, JTF, you have to start making history sometime. There's a ton of empty space out there by the CHF. At some point, someone will stick an apartment complex or four near it. If our design requirements result in the apartments looking more like this:

http://www.arlnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/650-glebe.jpg

than like this:

http://www.rejournals.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Willow-Creek-Estates.jpg

then we'll gradually make progress. Eliminate minimum parking requirements. Push all development up to the street. Parking lots cannot come up to the street and must go behind buildings, and cannot extend beyond the "width" of your building. Put in new sidewalks. Businesses must "face" the street. Things like that. These requirements are not particularly expensive. They will not drive away developers. It will actually increase density and encourage foot traffic.

It's not something that will change overnight. However we'll see significant effects after 10, 15, 20 years. These were all developments that were going to take place anyway. It just means that when something gets built, it will contribute to a small pocket of urbanization. At first it will just be a McDonald's on SW 50th and May. Then it will be a denist office on NE 36th and Eastern. But as areas go through their natural process of redevelopment, as buildings are torn down and new things are put in place, we'll gradually become a much more urban city.

Excellent post! LIKE!

The only flaw in the approved general design suggestion, above, that I can see, is the implied preference for a flat roof as compared to a sloped (gabled) roof. All flat roofs have leaking problems. This is a fact. Yet, not intended to distract from the concept as a whole. (like what would happen if The National Cowboy Hall of Fame and Western Heritage Museum were to be moved Downtown for the sake of Flying Hipster Convenience).

Telecommuting will fill much of the non driving gap...

Surprisingly, there is pushback emerging on the telecommuting notion, for several reasons. First, businesses who early on embraced it are finding out it does create a non-trivial practical problem for work groups who have mismatched telecommuting and/or in-office schedules. Secondly, some businesses translate the telecommuting notion as a leverage into the private homes of individuals such that they try to mandate work environments in the individual's home, eg ergonomic compliance, safety compliance, etc. etc., and no, I'm not kidding on that one. Thirdly, security departments are finding out that using anything other than a company-provided device for access back to a "corporate" network opens up huge risks for malevolent third-party access - and even using a company provided device is anything but a panacea when connected to an otherwise untrusted network hosted and operated by the telecommuting employee.

Not saying that telecommuting is disappearing, of course, but its going through a phase of "ideal versus reality," and the notion that it will become truly ubiquitous such that it diminishes actual, physical office occupation is proving to be overly optimistic. You'll see (and are seeing) companies that are limiting which jobs and individuals are even eligible to participate in a telecommuting environment.

Some countries allow free access to museums to people who are on unemployment benefits. Why should a person be denied access to their country's history and culture just because they can't afford it?

And Fred Jones Jr. Museum of Art on the OU campus may still offer free admission on Tuesday for everyone. I've been there before and found it quite enjoyable.

How many admissions for "the unable to pay" to The Cowboy Hall of Fame and Western Heritage Museum could be purchased had The First Lady decided not to spend a few extra days in Hawaii? I'd bet the number would be significant.

The only flaw in the approved general design suggestion, above, that I can see, is the implied preference for a flat roof as compared to a sloped (gabled) roof. All flat roofs have leaking problems. This is a fact. Yet, not intended to distract from the concept as a whole. (like what would happen if The National Cowboy Hall of Fame and Western Heritage Museum were to be moved Downtown for the sake of Flying Hipster Convenience).

I can never quite tell when you're being funny and when you're serious. :)

It's not so much the roof, it's how it interacts with the street and businesses nearby. The first pic comes all the way up to the street and sidewalk, giving easier access and shorter walking distances. By itself it doesn't mean anything, but with a dozen other buildings with the same street interaction next to it, you've got easy walking access to all of them, and a reason to get out of your car. If you're surrounded by a sea of parking that doesn't happen.

Here is my not very good MSPaint visual aid.

Good building:

5777

Bad building:

5778

The good building can have neighboring buildings immediately to either side, and is easy to walk to. The bad building is set way far back and is hard to get to unless you're in a car. Now at first, when these buildings are isolated, they'll look a little out of place, and you don't gain anything out of the development. If "good building" is surrounded by 50 "bad buildings" then it's really no better off. But once multiple "good buildings" are next to one another you'll see a much more urban place.

I think the best solution is for OKC to begin changing our zoning laws so that all new construction within certain city boundaries (say, within the I-44 to I-240 loop) complies with urban design guidelines.


You might want to pick up a copy of Sprawl Repair Manual by Galina Tachieva

Sprawl Repair Manual: Galina Tachieva: 9781597267328: Amazon.com: Books (http://www.amazon.com/Sprawl-Repair-Manual-Galina-Tachieva/dp/1597267325)

Maybe the title of the thread should be changed to "Urbanizing the Cowboy Hall of Fame". :)

The diagram, above, reminds me of a lecture by a local architect that I got to attend back in '70 (or so). He was really against the idea of having garage doors face the street. He said: "All that this type of residential design says is, 'cars live here'." I agreed with him then and I agree with him now. (and, by extension, agree with you, too.)

If The Cowboy Hall of Fame (and Western Heritage Museum) were to be moved Downtown--rather than across the freeway or out around Frontier City--I would hope they provide an appropriate number of hitchin' posts.

As I said, previously, it won't be long (relatively speaking) before Downtown surrounds the existing location of The Museum. In my opinion, developmental design parameters should be considered carefully.

You might want to pick up a copy of Sprawl Repair Manual by Galina Tachieva

Sprawl Repair Manual: Galina Tachieva: 9781597267328: Amazon.com: Books (http://www.amazon.com/Sprawl-Repair-Manual-Galina-Tachieva/dp/1597267325)

Maybe the title of the thread should be changed to "Urbanizing the Cowboy Hall of Fame". :)

But where it is now is almost a best of both worlds, far enough away from the city center that it celebrates what it's all about in a realistic environment, but not so far that it's not accessible. It's not like it's on Memorial Road.

http://i.imgur.com/yEVT06N.jpg

I have not been there in probably 10 years. If it was downtown I would have been there multiple times over the last few years. That is kind of my point. They only get 170,000 per year but should be doing 5X that based on the quality of the exhibits and its international appeal.

Perhaps its nostalgia, but I think it should stay put. In fact I like the Adventure District concept (even if semi-accidental).
JTF, would an active Adventure Rail Line make a difference? Would you go more often if there were reasonable transportation to/from that were somewhat adventuristic (made up word)?

The Prix de West is the biggest draw for me at the National Cowboy and Western Heritage Museum.

My two favorite events there are the Chuck Wagon Festival (every Memorial Day Weekend) and the Navy Ball (in October -- largest Navy Ball in the World).

I remember when you used to be able to see it up on that hill driving on 44W. Had that unique style roof. I don't think that is the case any more. Maybe because the trees are bigger and block the view. At least seeing it from the highway before was a reminder for me that it was there.

You might want to pick up a copy of Sprawl Repair Manual by Galina Tachieva

Sprawl Repair Manual: Galina Tachieva: 9781597267328: Amazon.com: Books (http://www.amazon.com/Sprawl-Repair-Manual-Galina-Tachieva/dp/1597267325)

Maybe the title of the thread should be changed to "Urbanizing the Cowboy Hall of Fame". :)

Gaah! 50 bucks is a lot for fun reading. :)

Perhaps its nostalgia, but I think it should stay put. In fact I like the Adventure District concept (even if semi-accidental).
JTF, would an active Adventure Rail Line make a difference? Would you go more often if there were reasonable transportation to/from that were somewhat adventuristic (made up word)?

CHF isn't on the Adventure Line and unless you live downtown you wouldn't use it to go to the zoo. Now granted I believe OKC downtown population is going to soar, especially over the next 20 years, but visitors would have to take a bus from the train to the CHF, and this doesn't even address the placemaking angle. OKC has a world class museum but it was built with a 1955 mentality. It could be OKCs version of The Louvre, The Philadelphia Museum of Art, the Metropolitan Museum of Art, or any number of world class global museums.

And no, I am not saying the CHF equals the Louvre but I am saying the Cowboy Hall of Fame could be to OKC what the Louvre is to Paris.

You might want to pick up a copy of Sprawl Repair Manual by Galina Tachieva

Sprawl Repair Manual: Galina Tachieva: 9781597267328: Amazon.com: Books (http://www.amazon.com/Sprawl-Repair-Manual-Galina-Tachieva/dp/1597267325)

Maybe the title of the thread should be changed to "Urbanizing the Cowboy Hall of Fame". :)
Gaah! 50 bucks is a lot for fun reading. :)

Library.

http://cybermars.mls.lib.ok.us/marsiis/CyberMARS.ASP?WCI=Keyword_Record&WCU=0001Sprawl%20repair%20manual.%20%20

Library.

http://cybermars.mls.lib.ok.us/marsiis/CyberMARS.ASP?WCI=Keyword_Record&WCU=0001Sprawl%20repair%20manual.%20%20

:Smiley199

It could be OKCs version of ... The Philadelphia Museum of Art

I would consider it downtown adjacent, since it's just outside the center city boundary...

And on that note, I like OKC's CHF where it is, but if we ever build a downtown OKC History museum, it would be neat to have a rotating wing that featured temporary exhibits from other OKC museums that rotated out quarterly or something to that effect. Could help draw visitors to those...

CHF isn't on the Adventure Line and unless you live downtown you wouldn't use it to go to the zoo. Now granted I believe OKC downtown population is going to soar, especially over the next 20 years, but visitors would have to take a bus from the train to the CHF, and this doesn't even address the placemaking angle. OKC has a world class museum but it was built with a 1955 mentality. It could be OKCs version of The Louvre, The Philadelphia Museum of Art, the Metropolitan Museum of Art, or any number of world class global museums.

And no, I am not saying the CHF equals the Louvre but I am saying the Cowboy Hall of Fame could be to OKC what the Louvre is to Paris.

We already have an Art Museum. Like, right Downtown. Easy walking distance from anywhere. (downtown).

The lack of the Adventure Line with a direct stop at the Cowboy Hall of Fame is an easy obstacle to overcome: Horse/Surrey/Stagecoach Rentals at The Zoo, and a bridal path through the unspoiled wilderness--adjacent to the current location--along with an Iowanian Covered Bridge across the "freeway" so's the horses don't git spooked.

In case you haven't guessed: I see no reason (or rhyme) to move this landmark from its current location.
I went to a couple of APHC picnics out there, back in the day, and one of my grown up cousins used to be a docent* out there when it was much less world class than it is now and I was a mere sprat (a tweenager or tween fer short).

If it ain't broke . . . Don't break it.

(so . . . just out of curiosity . . . ever been to The Philbrook? or The Gilcrease? mebbe we need to move them to OKC so's we don't need no new-fangled, high-speed rail t' git t' Tulsee Town . . . )

*friendly guard and tour guide in cowboy clothes. authentic okie.

. . . . (so . . . just out of curiosity . . . ever been to The Philbrook? or The Gilcrease? mebbe we need to move them to OKC so's we don't need no new-fangled, high-speed rail t' git t' Tulsee Town . . . ).

Rock on RM!! While we're at it. . .let's move the Fred Jones from Norman to OKC . ..and why leave out the Mabee-Gerrer in Shawnee or Jasmine Moran in Seminole. . .I'm sure there are others. . .keep all those museum goers all for OKC and downtown to boot!! And. . .oh my. . .how can we ask downtown visitors to drive all the way to NW 23rd/Lincoln to go to the Oklahoma History Center. . .to heck with that beautiful new building. . .yank those Housers out of there!!

This thread reminds me of some conversations with my kids . . what is it about "no" that you don't understand. . .or the "Asked and Answered" game. . .you ask, I answered but you keep asking the same question in a slightly different manner hoping I will change my mind!! My response?? Asked. . .and Answered.

For those who don't want to move it downtown (which I think is everyone except me), would you be upset if it did move downtown? If the headline in the Oklahoma tomorrow was "Cowboy Hall of Fame to Fill Former Journal Record Building" would there be protest in the streets?

http://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/r620-aadf92858db586cf12802cc421d3f857.jpg

How about: Western Heritage Center to Anchor Stage Center Tower Complex.

For those who don't want to move it downtown (which I think is everyone except me), would you be upset if it did move downtown? If the headline in the Oklahoma tomorrow was "Cowboy Hall of Fame to Fill Former Journal Record Building" would there be protest in the streets?

http://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/r620-aadf92858db586cf12802cc421d3f857.jpg

How about: Western Heritage Center to Anchor Stage Center Tower Complex.

They need to make it look more like a sod house or a log cabin or a tent or sumpin' . . .
It occurs to me that the suggestion to move the NCHF/WHM downtown is a lot like most of the "enhancements" to existing systems pioneered by IT hirelings and temps. "Yes . . . We f#%ed it up. But it's better now. And enhanced!"-

"Shee--it . . . [insert Chill Wills* impersonation] . . . Why don't we jist move all this stuff t' Miami . . . so's it can be moved t' Jacksonville later?"

*make that Slim Pickins instead . . . OK?

For those who don't want to move it downtown (which I think is everyone except me), would you be upset if it did move downtown? If the headline in the Oklahoma tomorrow was "Cowboy Hall of Fame to Fill Former Journal Record Building" would there be protest in the streets?

http://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/r620-aadf92858db586cf12802cc421d3f857.jpg

How about: Western Heritage Center to Anchor Stage Center Tower Complex.

JTF, I see exactly what you are saying. I like it. It could be our ( Lourve ) if given a First Rate Opportunity.

Maybe, we could have a different museum that equals that? ....???