For arguments sake lets say this is Larry's biggest priority because he has one or more major energy conventions he wants hosted here (not an unreasonable desire for a former energy CEO). Considering the economic impact of such conventions would that be the most terrible thing to come out of all of this?

Let's say he is successful in getting the CC yanked (and/or part or all of MAPS3). How do we then have confidence, as voters, to ever vote for anything like that again, without fearing it might get repealed by a future vote/law suit?

We don't and that's the point. If this goes through, it will be the end of MAPS as we know it. That is why it is so important that it all stays on there and passes again or whatever it takes.

This petition drive is unwise, imprudent and will be defeated. Regardless of what one may think of the process, City of Oklahoma City voters have previously decided this issue. That decision should be respected.

Is there not a way to debate the issues on the convention center (and all the projects) without simply burning it all to the ground? Am I missing something?

So... public meeting on the convention center? I'm for that. But have you gone to the public meetings? Goodness... some real gems come out of the woodwork. My favorite was someone suggesting a ski-lift style mechanism to move people around downtown, in particular the 70-acre park (instead of the streetcar) because it's so big... I'm just saying I'm not sure it would be as constructive as you think. Unless we have a "convention" on the convention center. Or something.

I hope he gets absolutely obliterated in the Mayoral election. I would like to see more dirt on him and his life completely ruined to where he never steps foot in OKC ever again. I hope his practice goes under and has to move back to Chicago or SF.

I'm simply a bit amazed that a Public Works Project for The Betterment of The Community at Large can generate this level of vitriol and emotion. Especially a Convention Center primarily for "out of towners". =)

It's almost--i hear tell--sorta like Will Rogers' on-site commentary on the unveiling of some statue involving Prairie Women and Wagons and Whatnots up there in the vicinity of The Marland Mansion outside of Ponca City . . . back in the day.

The main thing to remember here ("the takeaway" as "they" say) is: The Developers ALWAYS Win. Always.
I guess, then, that it comes down to a question of: "What IS 'Development'?"
It, "Development", for sure ain't stagnation.

Let the chips fall where they may . . . THEN spin the wheel or roll the dice.

For arguments sake lets say this is Larry's biggest priority because he has one or more major energy conventions he wants hosted here (not an unreasonable desire for a former energy CEO). Considering the economic impact of such conventions would that be the most terrible thing to come out of all of this?

Then, as nothing more than a committee member and a citizen, he should come forward with that information as it would be critical in terms of timing, funding, projections, etc.

Otherwise, he is just one voice and should be treated as such.


History is littered with the hubris of men who have been very successful in one area and thus simply believe they know what is best for everyone else, and then end up failing in spectacular fashion and in ways that truly injure a community. There are dozens of examples in OKC alone.

MAPS and the committees are meant to be public processes and should be treated as such.

I really doubt that they have any documentation.

But they don't need any to vote, only their perceptions.

Those are the low information voters somoneone mentioned here. Reminds me of my 80 year old mother: I voted for ______. He seems like such a nice man. Of course my favorite was when she voted against fluoridation of the water because she was sure it was a communist plot to rot the brains of Americans and enable Russia to take over our government. Some of the things I've heard recently don't sound that different.

Is there not a way to debate the issues on the convention center (and all the projects) without simply burning it all to the ground? Am I missing something?

Well, the problem right now is that the consultants aiding in the planning process for the new Convention Center are, in effect, telling us you all-but have to do a convention hotel in tandem with the convention center, or the general intent of the center is never really realized. But there was never any mention of a hotel in the MAPS3 project list, so its politically unpalatable to suggest that some of MAPS3 funding be diverted to a project that was never on the original list (convention hotel) while other projects that were get pushed down the priority list (for varying reasons). And that doesn't even begin to address the cost of the hotel and the magnitude of the public funds that might (will?) be necessary to make it happen.

Couple this with the fact that Shadid is trying to turn this into a scorched earth plan to derail MAPS completely - throwing out the baby with the bathwater as it were - and it makes for a particularly ugly political football. Some would suggest that proposing a CC only was disingenuous at the outset - and Shadid is trying to take this tack as a nuclear option by suggesting there was a deliberate misrepresentation on the part of city leaders regarding the necessity of a hotel in concert with the CC.

I personally think the Shadid approach is a non-starter, because we all know (or should by now) that city voters did not literally approve so much as one single nail for one single project - they authorized a "capital improvements" tax with what amount to "representative" list of projects in the form of a Resolution of Intent. But changing that ROI to include a hotel that notionally no one voted for is a political hand grenade minus its pin.

I'll go back to a suggestion I made some months ago - that Cornett and/or other city leaders need to engage our state Legislature to get the logrolling provision in the state constitution modified to allow the specification of projects as was done in the first MAPS ballot so many years ago. I have to believe there's a way to keep the spirit of the logrolling provision in tact without it creating a hamstring for a city trying to plan and fund legitimate civic improvement projects.

This petition drive is unwise, imprudent and will be defeated. Regardless of what one may think of the process, City of Oklahoma City voters have previously decided this issue. That decision should be respected.

There are a lot of uninformed people out there that think that the MAPS projects are only for DT and are just a playground for the rich. I've even heard one ES supporter say that "MAPS is Socialism in its purest form."

The other problem is it only passed by a 54% vote which means 46% or about 34,000 people were against it and I am sure there are people who have flipped to that side since that time. How many of those people will they be able to get to sign a petition to call for a special vote? Ed Shadid has almost 2,400 likes on his facebook page and has an avid following for how crazy he is.

Is there not a way to debate the issues on the convention center (and all the projects) without simply burning it all to the ground? Am I missing something?

No. And Yes.
(and/or vice-versa =)

I think your use of the word "it" in conjunction with "all" in the middle of your question obsfucated the issue(s).
Yet, I've been wrong before.

Those are the low information voters somoneone mentioned here. Reminds me of my 80 year old mother: I voted for ______. He seems like such a nice man. Of course my favorite was when she voted against fluoridation of the water because she was sure it was a communist plot to rot the brains of Americans and enable Russia to take over our government. Some of the things I've heard recently don't sound that different.
Wow. Your level of arrogance is pretty amazing.
Theses people are low info voters comparable to the anti-fluoride crowd just because they don't think this convention center is a good idea?
I'm not seeing consensus on the issue even in this thread. There seem to be several other pro-MAPS posters that think there some serious unresolved questions about it. I guess they all sport foil hats too lol.

The main thing to remember here ("the takeaway" as "they" say) is: The Developers ALWAYS Win. Always.

Actually they don't. Sometimes they lose spectacularly and sometimes they're happy to break even. Business ventures are always a gamble. If you've got the money and want to gamble, our society allows you to do so. If you win, some people complain, but if you lose, those same people don't offer to take up a collection. All I ask is that the winners pay their fair share of taxes. Otherwise, I don't begrudge them their winnings, given that they sometimes risk all.

I don't even feel like I really have enough information to give anything but an opinion about whether we actually need a new convention center. Our exisiting one is ugly. As I've said, I hate the location. I don't like the idea of a convention center dividing the two parks. But as I've also said, I know there were voters that wanted a new convention center and I feel like we have to honor their say in the electoral process.

Wow. Your level of arrogance is pretty amazing.
Theses people are low info voters comparable to the anti-fluoride crowd just because they don't think this convention center is a good idea?
I'm not seeing consensus on the issue even in this thread. There seem to be several other pro-MAPS posters that think there some serious unresolved questions about it. I guess they all sport foil hats too lol.

You're the one that said they're voting based on their perceptions. I was responding to that statement. That's how my mother votes. Perhaps it's better to vote based on information if you can get it. See below:

Really? You do realize that there is a middle ground right?
I'm referring to people that have supported every MAPS project. People that want the downtown park, a modern transit system. But something about this convention center doesn't sit right.
I for one am not willing to let this one issue derail the whole thing but like I said a lot of I know are really starting to second guess the whole thing.

I think that the real data is difficult to come by. The "experts" have an agenda as well. The most outstanding evidence supporting my last statement occurred during the City of Seattle's lawsuit against Clay Bennett, et al. The foremost sports arena expert, who had countless articles talking about why cities shouldn't build them as they're a massive boondoggle and only help team owners, testified for the City saying that the Sonics were a huge economic boon to Seattle, completely reversing everything he'd written previously. I'd read all his previous articles and so, (to stop any arena complaining dead in its tracks here) in previous articles he'd written that the only exception to to his argument that arenas are bad investments for cities, was in cities with a single team and 200 miles or more from any other cities with professional sports teams - whew!

So, I think the best argument for a new convention center is that the old one is ugly and out of date and a new one will improve perceptions of our city. The people who do come here for a convention will think better of us, we might get some bigger conventions and we can use it for local events. It's a fairly weak argument, but it's weakness is certainly not enough to make me want to stop MAPS dead in its tracks and risk never passing another community improvement tax. I agree.

Steve: ...I'm not aware of another time in our city's history when a sitting city council member attempted to overturn a previous vote by taxpayers. That happens when you have no concern for your constituents and can't see any agenda but your own as valid.

My vote is for something like this.

http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/d2/44/e1/the-westin-warsaw-exterior.jpg

It's probably a longshot though.
Is that a giant bong?

Ed Shadid has almost 2,400 likes on his facebook page and has an avid following for how crazy he is.

Don't sweat that number too much, I'm a "like"r on his facebook page. There was a time when I thought he was thoughtful and worth listening to. By now, I follow him because I want to know what he's up to. The comments that show up there, by the way, ARE somewhat alarming.

Don't sweat that number too much, I'm a "like"r on his facebook page. There was a time when I thought he was thoughtful and worth listening to. By now, I follow him because I want to know what he's up to. The comments that show up there, by the way, ARE somewhat alarming.

Some of the comments on this board are alarming.

So....I wonder when someone will take the initiative to set up a poll on OKCTalk about killing the Convention Center while simultaneously rolling back $250 million in maps tax collection? I think it's a pretty safe bet this crowd doesn't support that but we might all be surprised. I am surprised with some of the opinions that have surfaced.

On the other hand, it's all a grand bit of political theater. Those who may have been set to focus the hot white lights of reality on Ed the Candidate will now spend a good deal of time, energy and resources trying to persuade folks that staying the course, looking forward, protecting the MAPs brand, avoid falling for red herrings, no commitment to a hotel, so no need to harm the cc, etc., etc., etc.

I seem to remember a Tom Clancy novel like this once. rattle saber here, rattle saber yonder, all the while planning something big on the down low over there where no one is really looking because they are watching or dodging the next saber rattle.

Annoying in its own way, but interesting all the same. There's some serious political gamesmanship under way. Hope OKC is up for it.

On the other hand, it's all a grand bit of political theater. Those who may have been set to focus the hot white lights of reality on Ed the Candidate will now spend a good deal of time, energy and resources trying to persuade folks that staying the course, looking forward, protecting the MAPs brand, avoid falling for red herrings, no commitment to a hotel, so no need to harm the cc, etc., etc., etc.

I seem to remember a Tom Clancy novel like this once. rattle saber here, rattle saber yonder, all the while planning something big on the down low over there where no one is really looking because they are watching or dodging the next saber rattle.

Annoying in its own way, but interesting all the same. There's some serious political gamesmanship under way. Hope OKC is up for it.

and it didn't start just now.

Don't sweat that number too much, I'm a "like"r on his facebook page. There was a time when I thought he was thoughtful and worth listening to. By now, I follow him because I want to know what he's up to. The comments that show up there, by the way, ARE somewhat alarming.

I was a supporter of his during his campaign for city council and so I had "liked" his page earlier. What a blunder on my part. I think, though, that he had almost twice that many likes a couple of weeks ago. Mayor Cornett has 6,000+. Mayor Cornett is pretty active on twitter as well. So much for Ed being the king of social media in city politics.

Has anyone managed to get a copy of the Petition? I'm guessing this is a Qui Tam? What legal theory is he using here?

I don't know how this keeps happening, but almost everytime Ed does anything it makes me hate him so much more. After we bury him in the election, I'll be the first person behind Warren88 with a torch and pitch fork chasing him out of town.

Here's to hoping Ed's latest Hail Mary backfires like the rest of them. Anyone still think he had nothing to do with David Slane's maps challenge?

Has anyone managed to get a copy of the Petition? I'm guessing this is a Qui Tam? What legal theory is he using here?

I searched as best I could on the OKC Clerk's portion of the OKC web site, but I found nothing that might let me look up petitions or similar items. Not even sure there's a legal theory at work - sounds like he's using the initiative petition process to do two things; one, get the voters to approve an explicit prohibition of the use of MAPS 3 funds for the convention center; two, get the voters to shorten the lifespan of the MAPS 3 tax by an amount of time that would reduce the projected revenue by an amount equal to the projected cost of the convention center.

I guess the first question I'd have is whether the initiative petition process can be used in this way - to prohibit the city from doing a specific thing it isn't legally bound to do in the first place. I'd think the second petition item might merit more attention - cutting the duration of the tax seems like a plausible attempt to starve the CC project even if the other petition fails.

I've not seen anything to indicate the petitions were actually filed - only that they were "supposed" to be filed 2 January.

The issue of how the CC +/- hotel was or was not presented within the context of the broader MAPS campaign could become a very troubling issue for everyone going forward.

True, let's stop the CC construction and while were at it, tear down the baseball stadium, fill in the canal, rip up the new sidewalks, bulldoze the remodeled schools. Why would we want this City to grow and proper.

As Pete pointed out several times in this thread (and I have pointed out probably 100 times over the last few years), once the voters approved the MAPS III money for the convention it also put the City (aka - the citizens) on the hook to pitch in for the hotel - AND - the second phase of the convention center. Remember, the first MAPS III phase is just to replace the Cox Center. Phase II is to lure and accommodate the projected growth. Of course, we know that projected growth is totally made up horse-**** because there is no realistic way it is possible. The Chamber screwed up when they pitched it as an economic activity generator instead of a quality of life project. For the vast majority of people who would visit this facility there is zero (zip, nada, zilch) reason to have an attached hotel because these people already have a home in metro OKC. Until the Chamber stops lying to us about all these ridiculous projections this is the kind of debate they are going to generate.

I would like to think the current Cox site could be sold off to off-set some of the cost for phase II and the hotel but the reality is that the City will probably give away the land to a developer (i.e. Lower Bricktown), or will spend millions on surrounding infrastructure at the request of the developer (i.e. OKC Outlet Mall and Devon Tower). Remember, when you lose money on every transaction you can't make it up in volume.

I've never been happy with the way this whole convention center thing has transpired; to not being open about the study prior to the vote, to it being moved up in the timeline, to using a selection process that promised the best site for the CC and not what was best for OKC overall. And there are still a bunch of unanswered questions about what could be a very expensive hotel that will likely need substantial public support.

It's really too bad that Shadid has alienated himself to the point that he can't effectively address these issues -- because they do need addressing.

He could have also carried the torch for addressing the issues with the planning department, the Project 180 planning and budget and several other key areas that need to be put under a bright light.

Unfortunately, he's turned into a bit of a pariah and even when he is right and/or people may agree with his message, there is little trust.

Calculated understatement? This is just naked politics. He has found the issue with which he can make the greatest impact for his mayoral campaign but he couldn't care less if his destructive efforts harm MAPS 3 and the city.

He is an anarchist, and I'm beginning to believe his supporters are both clueless about how economics work and / or don't understand how important it is for our city to invest in its amenities and infrastructure to continue to grow.

Shadid's mailing says he will work hard for jobs, but so far everything I've seen him propose involves killing jobs and economic development initiatives. I'm so ready for this guy to go back to his medical practice and stop screwing up our city.

As for the convention center, I was never a huge fan, but I have always believed -- and still do -- that a large, growing city like OKC needs a nice convention center. And if we have a convention center, we need a convention hotel -- and hopefully a top-flight hotel brand. And I don't mind if we subsidize it because I think it's something we need.

Now, i don't see how it's positive for OKC to turn this into a prosecutorial effort about what should or should not have been said to citizens, because in the end, that's academic vis a vis completing the convention center.

Until the Chamber stops lying to us about all these ridiculous projections this is the kind of debate they are going to generate.


Do you think the projections are made up, or just unrealistic? There is a difference.

Hint...they aren't made up

Has anyone managed to get a copy of the Petition? I'm guessing this is a Qui Tam? What legal theory is he using here?

Petitions are posted at NewsOK: Oklahoma City News, Sports, Weather, Business & Entertainment OKC (http://www.newsok.com)

Stuff like this leads me to believe, does Ed really care about bus routes, or does he just see bus riders as an easy voter bloc to obtain so he can get his dream of being mayor?

Do you think the projections are made up, or just unrealistic? There is a difference.

Hint...they aren't made up

The projections are made up and aren't founded in reality. Someone took a guess based on the most rosy assumptions and sold it to the Chamber, who bought it because it told the lie they wanted told. Either the Chamber is stupid or they think we the public are stupid. I'm betting it is the latter.

How about this - after 5 years the company that did the projections pay the difference between reality and their projection. Do you think they would go for that?

If they just sold it as a quality of life project they wouldn't have needed fake projections at all and the people would have still bought it. Honesty works.

and it didn't start just now.

Nor did I suggest it did. I am thinking however that Tulsa style discord is going to reach full bloom long before the local flora does.

Having experienced Ed's personality traits on a personal level, I suspect that this is just as much about revenge against "the establishment" as it is about any kind of meaningful political strategy.

Having experienced Ed's personality traits on a personal level, I suspect that this is just as much about revenge against "the establishment" as it is about any kind of meaningful political strategy.

Exactly, this guy is mad he's not part of said "establishment" and will go to any length to create his own.

Not exactly. In some ways yes. Definitely ego and addiction for greater political power at play imhop. The Convention Center was probably always going to come up. But one wonders if it simply would have heen a major debate issue or if "they" (being Ed, David Glover, and their friends) really anticipated going as far as attempting formally repealing a major part of MAPS 3.


It seems more like blood letting to me.

Exactly, this guy is mad he's not part of said "establishment" and will go to any length to create his own.

"Establishment?" Ed would belong to no club that would have him as a member.

Not exactly. In some ways yes. Definitely ego and addiction for greater political power at play imhop. The Convention Center was probably always going to come up. But one wonders if it simply would have heen a major debate issue or if "they" (being Ed, David Glover, and their friends) really anticipated going as far as attempting formally repealing a major part of MAPS 3.


It seems more like blood letting to me.

Scorched earth strategy. They know they're not going to win the race, so they're going to exact as much damage as they can on the way down. They want to leave a trail of wreckage (much how Shadid described his personal life prior to his recovery) cloaked as honest citizen inquiry.

Petitions are posted at NewsOK: Oklahoma City News, Sports, Weather, Business & Entertainment OKC (http://www.newsok.com)

That first petition is dense - couldn't the council circumvent that by creating a building with the same purpose and just not call it a "convention center?"

* sigh *

Ed's certainly not winning friends on the Council. He would have great difficulty opposing anything the Council chose to do.

An updated article in the Oklahoman including comments from two former mayors.

Citizens' group led by Ed Shadid calls for votes to strip MAPS 3 convention center, end tax collection early | News OK (http://newsok.com/citizens-group-led-by-ed-shadid-calls-for-votes-to-strip-maps-3-convention-center-end-tax-collection-early/article/3920296)


Former Mayor Ron Norick says killing the planned MAPS 3 convention center would derail 20 years of “over-the-top” economic success and amount to a step backward for Oklahoma City.
“To step backwards is just a huge mistake and I don't believe the citizens of Oklahoma City will do that,” Norick said Friday.

An updated article in the Oklahoman including comments from two former mayors.

Citizens' group led by Ed Shadid calls for votes to strip MAPS 3 convention center, end tax collection early | News OK (http://newsok.com/citizens-group-led-by-ed-shadid-calls-for-votes-to-strip-maps-3-convention-center-end-tax-collection-early/article/3920296)

Man, the three or four people willing to support Ed in public comments are getting smacked down tonight. People are seeing through this crap.

Man, the three or four people willing to support Ed in public comments are getting smacked down tonight. People are seeing through this crap.

I really wish Ed and his crap would just go away forever. This guy is not good. I don't want him anywhere near this city anymore, he is nothing but trouble.

If progress is powder, Ed's trying to sniff it up with his almighty rolled up political dollar!

This is divisiveness, plain & simple, finding things you don't like about a MAPS component in order to eliminate it.

MAPS PASSED. Support it. Build it. Patronize it. Be a proponent of the many good things about our city.

And turn your backs on those who would stop progress through divisiveness, negativity, controversy and self-promotion.

Remember he had "Nothing To Do" with the potential lawsuit against the city to cancel MAPS.

This guy does not have OKC's best interest at heart, he does not have your best interest at heart. He is a wolf in sheep's clothing, and he IS deceiving those willing to listen and believe his actions.

Potential remake at South Boston convention center - Business - The Boston Globe (http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2013/10/02/state-asked-plan-expand-convention-center/ReJ3GJsdSX4a0wO1rSluxM/story.html)
The chamber must be passing talking points around the country. We've got to build it to keep up with the Bostons if we're going to be big league. Their cc only lost $30 million last year. El Shadid is right to go after this windmill. It's going to be a $ pit and people like my 81 years mom will be on the hook for the billl. Sameo corporate welfare ruing our country- private profit, public loss. It's the chamber and the secretive plutocrats who have tarnished the MAPS brand with their textbook case of logrolling and bait&switch to move the cc up 30 months ahead of the projects people actually voted for.Ed is rightly performing his function as a city rep hoping to steer the town away from folly and deception. Think what half a billion would buy in enhancements that'd actaully benifit OKC residents.

An updated article in the Oklahoman including comments from two former mayors.

Citizens' group led by Ed Shadid calls for votes to strip MAPS 3 convention center, end tax collection early | News OK (http://newsok.com/citizens-group-led-by-ed-shadid-calls-for-votes-to-strip-maps-3-convention-center-end-tax-collection-early/article/3920296)

Shocking, a couple rich white chamber guys who profited nicely from their public service support this $ pit folly. thank God Humphreys ran for senate before he did real damage. Guy had a bizarre yen to raze the last existing Gold Dome. Had it in for the historic Walnut Creek bridge also. Go away sir.

Potential remake at South Boston convention center - Business - The Boston Globe (http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2013/10/02/state-asked-plan-expand-convention-center/ReJ3GJsdSX4a0wO1rSluxM/story.html)
The chamber must be passing talking points around the country. We've got to build it to keep up with the Bostons if we're going to be big league. Their cc only lost $30 million last year. El Shadid is right to go after this windmill. It's going to be a $ pit and people like my 81 years mom will be on the hook for the billl. Sameo corporate welfare ruing our country- private profit, public loss. It's the chamber and the secretive plutocrats who have tarnished the MAPS brand with their textbook case of logrolling and bait&switch to move the cc up 30 months ahead of the projects people actually voted for.Ed is rightly performing his function as a city rep hoping to steer the town away from folly and deception. Think what half a billion would buy in enhancements that'd actaully benifit OKC residents.

That is not the point.

WE already voted on it, to tell the voters they simply aren't smart enough to know what they are voting for is insulting, disingenuous, and is a folly to the MAPS brand and the progress we have made as a city.

Besides, we could use a new one...good thing we voted on it already and we will get it. If we don't, I'm sure I will be pissed, as well as a whole host of other citizens who voted for this.

That is not the point.

WE already voted on it, to tell the voters they simply aren't smart enough to know what they are voting for is insulting, disingenuous, and is a folly to the MAPS brand and the progress we have made as a city.

Besides, we could use a new one...good thing we voted on it already and we will get it. If we don't, I'm sure I will be pissed, as well as a whole host of other citizens who voted for this.

I would say the secretive plutocrats hiding the information necessary for the public to make an informed decision are the ones being disingenuous. Got a hunch not many outside the chamber junta would be much crushed.

So a new bus system will not cost the taxpayers any money? Schools don't cost the taxpayers money? The Civic Center and Art Museum don't cost the taxpayers money? Your mom isn't supporting all of them? Almost everything a city builds costs money/loses money. City amenities individually may not satisfy the needs of any given individual, but as a whole they should satisfy the needs, improve quality of life for all. Some do so directly by providing a service or a quality of life amenity. Some do so indirectly, by improving the stature or perception of our city. Some bring in money from outside the city. That's why the MAPS concept works so well. It forces us to act unselfishly - to support things we might not want but other citizens will. As a group, we all get something, but we almost always have to vote for something we may not wAnt or use. But someone else wants it or will use it. That's fair.

I would say the secretive plutocrats hiding the information necessary for the public to make an informed decision are the ones being disingenuous. Got a hunch not many outside the chamber junta would be much crushed.

You throw out these statements that sound like so much knee-jerk puppet-speak. Show us your data. Answer a question.

We would be crushed because there are voters who voted for a new convention center when they placed their vote. A plebiscite is a bond between the voters and the city and Ed wants to disregard democracy because it doesn't suit him. And yet he didn't even vote against it or bother to vote. He was a poor citizen then and now he's acting like a tyrant. To be honest with you, his behavior now actually makes all the sordid divorce details seem more plausible.

I would say the secretive plutocrats hiding the information necessary for the public to make an informed decision are the ones being disingenuous. Got a hunch not many outside the chamber junta would be much crushed.

Your "hunches" have proven to be wildly inaccurate so far.

I think Ed is poking the bear. No, not the "Chamber junta," (and by the way, I've heard David Glover use this exact term. is this you, David?) but the average people of this city who vote in city elections, who voted for MAPS 3. They're getting sick of Ed's sh-t.

Edgar I find it amazing how uninformed you really are. Do you actually believe what you are saying? You don't like the Chamber (big shock here, neither does Ed), but the real winners from MAPS are the citizens of OKC. We have come a long way since MAPS started and Maps is the reason. So, if Ed's campaign is the anti-maps, anti-chamber, undo the progress campaign. I wish him (you) luck.

Potential remake at South Boston convention center - Business - The Boston Globe (http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2013/10/02/state-asked-plan-expand-convention-center/ReJ3GJsdSX4a0wO1rSluxM/story.html)
The chamber must be passing talking points around the country. We've got to build it to keep up with the Bostons if we're going to be big league. Their cc only lost $30 million last year. El Shadid is right to go after this windmill. It's going to be a $ pit and people like my 81 years mom will be on the hook for the billl. Sameo corporate welfare ruing our country- private profit, public loss. It's the chamber and the secretive plutocrats who have tarnished the MAPS brand with their textbook case of logrolling and bait&switch to move the cc up 30 months ahead of the projects people actually voted for.Ed is rightly performing his function as a city rep hoping to steer the town away from folly and deception. Think what half a billion would buy in enhancements that'd actaully benifit OKC residents.

Well thanks for changing my life Edgar. I have never in my life contributed to a political campaign until just now. I was so inspired by you that I just made a sizable online donation to Mick Cornett. Mick Cornett for Mayor (http://www.mickcornett2014.com/)

Edgar I find it amazing how uninformed you really are. Do you actually believe what you are saying? You don't like the Chamber (big shock here, neither does Ed), but the real winners from MAPS are the citizens of OKC. We have come a long way since MAPS started and Maps is the reason. So, if Ed's campaign is the anti-maps, anti-chamber, undo the progress campaign. I wish him (you) luck.

The MAPSIII logroll and supression of relevant info from the voting public has soiled the franchise.

Well thanks for changing my life Edgar. I have never in my life contributed to a political campaign until just now. I was so inspired by you that I just made a sizable online donation to Mick Cornett. Mick Cornett for Mayor (http://www.mickcornett2014.com/)

The chamber junta thanks you for supporting their lapdog. Poor Mick, now he's going top have to serve another term he never wanted with an adult on the 'shoe asking all the adult questions.

The MAPSIII logroll and supression of relevant info from the voting public has soiled the franchise.

For you and your five friends here. So, what's Ed's plan to get the money to do anything, since his m.o. is to sow suspicion and paranoia about city tax projects? When can we the taxpayers believe a liar who is perfectly comfortable ignoring the will of his electorate? Recipe for disaster.

For you and your five friends here. So, what's Ed's plan to get the money to do anything, since his m.o. is to sow suspicion and paranoia about city tax projects? When can we the taxpayers believe a liar who is perfectly comfortable ignoring the will of his electorate? Recipe for disaster.

Seems El Shadid just wants the best informed voting public and thinks the secretive plutocrats were deceptive in the promotion of the cc. It doesn't cost $, it saaaves $!

But on that basis, how do you know the CC would work at all?

The consultants we paid a ton of money to and that are considered experts said it would ONLY work with the hotel. Which is another way of saying it won't work without it.

We need a new CC either way. Ours is a joke for a city out size