Urban chicken coops don't have to take up that much space. 5730

That looks suspiciously like a SUB-urban chicken coop to me. Unless it's on top of a highrise or sumpin.
Can you imagine the relentless barking of dogs this could cause?
Not to mention the continuing feralization of cats . . .

Eglu Cube: Urban Chicken Coop ? Boing Boing Gadgets (http://gadgets.boingboing.net/2008/04/07/eglu-cube-urban-chic.html) maybe this is more to your liking. Responsible pet owners are a animal lovers wish.

I thought we decided chickens were more like crops than pets . . .

Depends on the person. Some folks can look at a animal as a commodity, the rest of us will bond with it as a pet. You could have a pet chicken that lays eggs you can eat. As long as you don't think of it as eating your Grandkids.:cool:

Depends on the person. Some folks can look at a animal as a commodity, the rest of us will bond with it as a pet. You could have a pet chicken that lays eggs you can eat. As long as you don't think of it as eating your Grandkids.:cool:

I guess it's like this . . .
I wouldn't (knowingly) eat a dog or a cat.
However, I might eat a guinea pig if I were really, really hungry and I had a pet guinea pig as a child.
I don't eat sashimi because it might be Nemo or another lovable cartoon pet fish (raw) but I will enjoy a cooked fish.
If you want a pet bird, have a parakeet or a canary.
A chicken is a crop.

Oh. I have to say neigh to horses.
(I'm sure they are relieved to hear that.)

Urban chicken coops don't have to take up that much space. 5730
I was thinking about something like that so I could move it around. Maybe bigger but I'd like to be able to move it. Also want to let them wander in the yard, sometimes, but I don't trust my dogs as far as I can throw them. I'd need something secure because we have foxes, coyotes and owls. Still researching.

If it passed, I was going to get two hens for my GF's yard too. Since it didn't, will just continue buying cage free eggs.

I like eggs and a friend of ours who raises them found out and sent over some eggs. OMG, they were soooooo much better than your regular grocery store eggs. Since then, I've paid extra for the cage free eggs but they still aren't nearly as good. When I started asking questions, I was really surprised at how attached to their chickens people were. I am going to ask our friend what sort of chicken produced those wonderful eggs and if it is in the set I've narrowed down, will get a couple.

If I think I could get away with it, I would raise a few illegally. Otherwise, maybe the permit program the Mayor and Meg proposed will be passed.

Good luck!

If I think I could get away with it, I would raise a few illegally. Otherwise, maybe the permit program the Mayor and Meg proposed will be passed.I know people in OKC pretty close to downtown who have them and they have had no problems.

If I think I could get away with it, I would raise a few illegally. Otherwise, maybe the permit program the Mayor and Meg proposed will be passed.

Two people I know keep their's pretty out of site in the backyard with a tall fence and pen. The other doesn't hide hers at all and lives in a traditional neighborhood. I'm of the mind that unless someone complains, you're okay, and the city hasn't deputized a hen patrol.

Two people I know keep their's pretty out of site in the backyard with a tall fence and pen. The other doesn't hide hers at all and lives in a traditional neighborhood. I'm of the mind that unless someone complains, you're okay, and the city hasn't deputized a hen patrol.

Yeah, but when someone gets caught and an officer tackles a chicken trying to run on a footbal field...... We all know where it's going to go from there. ;)

Urban chicken coops don't have to take up that much space. 5730

This what you see a lot of in the Austin area. At least where my parents had a house.

Of course one issue will be that the pens above are not cheap and are not easy for many people to build. So, you're gonna end up with rough looking chicken wire, spare sheets of metal and discarded residential doors comprising a lot of the coops. Just the reality.

Look online and coops like the one above are $300-$1000. Then you buy your hens and feed. Then the time to care for them…. there is no way 3-7 hens is a financially feasible way to feed anyone, let alone 'the poor.' You raise them because you want to, it becomes your hobby and you like the fresh eggs. But you can buy a ton of eggs at the store for what you'd invest to raise your own.

That said, I'm still scoping out a spot for my chicken tractor.

A couple of summers ago, my wife and I had the pleasure to visit the Organic Farm, in Western Wisconsin, owned by some old friends of hers. The first thing that struck me was all of the chickens--and a few roosters--wandering around the property. I hadn't seen anything like that since I was a kid visiting my grandparents place out in what was then the country. Guess what we had for dinner that night . . . Formerly Free Range Chicken. And it was GOOD. Next morning, for breakfast? Yup. The best eggs ever. I think that all of the insects and whatnot the chickens get to eat while wandering around make the yolks extra good. Obviously, chickens bridge the gap in the food chain that allows us not to eat unfiltered, non-refined bugs. And, for that, I am grateful. The roosters got a little loud in the morning, but weren't nearly as annoying as barking dogs.

I think you can put me down for a "Yes" vote for urban chickens.

However, it should be noted that the smell from the massive chicken processing factory up around Southwest City, MO is enough to take your breath away (just about as bad as a rendering plant) and, therefore, the number of chickens allowed should be regulated.

... The roosters got a little loud in the morning, but weren't nearly as annoying as barking dogs.
...

So very true.

I think that, in addition to a few chickens, people should be allowed to have a couple of goats or sheep to keep the lawn "mowed" without creating a carbon footprint. In fact, years ago, I thought maybe "Rent a Goat" might be an organic, green alternative to a Toro lawnmower. I know you can make cheese from goat's milk, and having had goat meat a few times I'd have to say I'd have it again. Not bad at all, really. Goat's eyes sort of creep me out, though . . . Their pupils are just weird. Really. Check it out sometime.

We've got lots of animals on our land that we don't eat (my wife's prohibition, not mine): to include chickens. Love the fresh eggs, though!
We're still carnivores, but she doesn't want to eat anything she looked in the face. That goes for fish on the plate, too.
An interesting forum kind of like OKC Talk is BackyardChickens.com. There's a lot of good info there.

Forget what I said, above, regarding goats. KFour just reported the confusion that a rogue urban goat can cause.
It involved the cops and everything.

Scofflaw Goats! They're the worst.

My best friend, a rancher, was devastated when they butchered the first calf she'd raised. After that, she named them Supper, Dinner, etc. :)
My dad had a pet duck when he was a kid that he was quite fond of. Quite a surprise when he came home from school and his pet was now dinner.
Even my dad admits it was a good dinner though.

Chicken Coops & Backyard Chicken Coops | Williams-Sonoma (http://www.williams-sonoma.com/shop/agrarian-garden/agrarian-garden-chicken-coops/)

Perhaps we can require that the coops be approved by the DDDRC.

My dad had a pet duck when he was a kid that he was quite fond of. Quite a surprise when he came home from school and his pet was now dinner.
Even my dad admits it was a good dinner though.

Recipe? (baked? or cut into nuggets, breaded appropriated, and fried? rice, taters, noodles, cous-cous or alt. on the side?)
I et' "Duck Medallions" one time, from a free-shot duck that I actually helped skin and cut up.
(the "Hunter's" wife--at the time--did the busy work)
They wuz good.

Chicken Coops & Backyard Chicken Coops | Williams-Sonoma (http://www.williams-sonoma.com/shop/agrarian-garden/agrarian-garden-chicken-coops/)

Perhaps we can require that the coops be approved by the DDDRC.

Surely, thou jesteth.
'scuse me: Shirley (thou doth jest?)

I grow weary of this verbal jousting . . .
Are the Backyard Chickens OK or Not?
(and according to what terms?)

Perhaps we need to seek counsel from Mary The Fallin?
(nah . . . to many haytuhz)

This is/was a purely political move to try to play to the hipster faction. Most people that try raising chickens because they think it's a cool thing to do soon get sick of eggs and the hens in general. My guess is the poor don't give a crap about raising chickens when they can use SNAP to get eggs at the store if they want...
It was a bad law 100 years ago and its a bad law now. You're passing judgement on those with less than you - very classless.

Personally, I'm all for urban chickens. I know several people who have a few hens (illegally) and it has never been an issue for them. That said, I don't buy the reasoning that its needed for 'the poor to put food on their table.'
...
3.) The eggs and meat are a plus, but not mandatory or even a economically smart way to 'feed the poor.'
The quotation marks around things like "feed the poor" come off as pretty callused and incompassionate. You're entitled to your opinion, but sharing it makes you look bad on this one.

Look online and coops like the one above are $300-$1000. Then you buy your hens and feed. Then the time to care for them…. there is no way 3-7 hens is a financially feasible way to feed anyone, let alone 'the poor.' You raise them because you want to, it becomes your hobby and you like the fresh eggs. But you can buy a ton of eggs at the store for what you'd invest to raise your own.

Have you been to Mexico? How do they raise chickens in Mexico if it costs so damn much? Where there's a will there's a way. I don't know if you honestly think you need to spend $300 for a chicken coop or if you're convinced everyone who is poor is also lazy and stupid, but neither are correct.

LandRun! Back off from the caffeine, man!

He's talking like this is the really a terrible decision for the poor, but again, no evidence, and most of the uproar I've seen and heard is from people that are hardly poor, but as was said, more "hipster" and in it for the sustainability and local food movement angle.

The quotation marks around things like "feed the poor" come off as pretty callused and incompassionate. You're entitled to your opinion, but sharing it makes you look bad on this one.

Have you been to Mexico? How do they raise chickens in Mexico if it costs so damn much? Where there's a will there's a way. I don't know if you honestly think you need to spend $300 for a chicken coop or if you're convinced everyone who is poor is also lazy and stupid, but neither are correct.

Get over yourself. Nothing incompassionate about what I said. The 'to feed the poor' angle has been used as one of the ways to push this thing through and I call BS on that angle.

I'm for people having the right to raise hens, but don't try and tell people its because it helps 'the poor.'

FYI - how do you think it makes you look when you say things like "You're entitled to your opinion, but sharing it makes you look bad…"

Actually, yes, I go to Mexico quite frequently. Trust me, most people don't want to live next to a neighbor that raises hens in the condition many in Mexico do and that is probably the fear of several of those on our City Council (and I can't really blame them).

I think that if you are set up for chickens - you've got the land and a coop, this can help out with feeding a family. If it didn't, it never would have caught on on the farm. Sunday dinner was often a chicken past her prime and there were plenty of eggs. Roosters were around to keep a steady supply of new chicks. But most people in an urban setting simply can't raise enough eggs or meat animals for it to be much more than a hobby.

You're exactly correct, pq.

I think that if you are set up for chickens - you've got the land and a coop, this can help out with feeding a family. If it didn't, it never would have caught on on the farm. Sunday dinner was often a chicken past her prime and there were plenty of eggs. Roosters were around to keep a steady supply of new chicks. But most people in an urban setting simply can't raise enough eggs or meat animals for it to be much more than a hobby.

Absolutely, you can feed a family with chickens you raise yourself, but not most people under the conditions that are being proposed.

My great grandmother had chickens when she had her farm (where OU Medical Center Edmond now stands) and she relied on the eggs and meat.

But to do so she required hens and roosters (and certainly more than 5-6). She also always said you have your meat hens and your laying hens.

Sure you can raise 5-6 hens and get more than enough eggs for a typical family. But eggs from the store are cheap and convenient. A tiny percentage of people will be raising egg hens because they 'need' the eggs they produce.

As for meat, you really need a breed of hen that is distinctly different from your average egg laying hen. They will grow a bit faster and be larger breasted. You also need more than 5-6 to get the cost down. At 5-6 hens you are probably looking at a total cost of $9-$15 bird from chick to plate (if you use a processor) - way more than buying one at the store.

Without a rooster you will be buying new meat hens every 6-9 weeks. Not to mention you're gonna need to process the birds.

Like I said, if you're gonna do it right (meaning a coop that doesn't look like something from a Mexican ghetto) you're fooling yourself if you think you're being financially smart. Face it, its a fun hobby that produces most likely more eggs than you're gonna eat - and expensive eggs at that.

The average person is better off with a cheap box of eggs from Crest as they need them and a $5 rotisserie chicken from Sam's or WalMart as desired.

That said, I'm looking into getting some hens, but I'm being realistic.

LandRunOkie is just looking for reasons to call other posters racist.

In the FWIW column, over the years I've never had a bad carton of eggs from walmart, homeland, albertson, wrights or any other place of purchase. Sure, a broke one every now and again, but our bad for being in too big a hurry to look close enough. And whatever anyone thinks of WM or HL, their precoooked birds from spits are mighty mighty tasty. And, way less work than chasing one around the yard and doing the wring whack drain pluck wash rinse season cook routine.

As for meat, you really need a breed of hen that is distinctly different from your average egg laying hen. They will grow a bit faster and be larger breasted. You also need more than 5-6 to get the cost down. At 5-6 hens you are probably looking at a total cost of $9-$15 bird from chick to plate (if you use a processor) - way more than buying one at the store.
I think growing them for meat is an industrial process and no one is advocating that on a city lot. I know a lot of people are growing rabbits for meat because of the quicker reproductive cycles and more offspring.

I think that if you are set up for chickens - you've got the land and a coop, this can help out with feeding a family. If it didn't, it never would have caught on on the farm.
Exactly. This country has finally reached the point that people can't conceptualize food beyond buying at the grocery store. It has to come from somewhere. Do you really trust Meg Salyer to tell you what to do in your own backyard? What are her credentials on this?

The 'to feed the poor' angle has been used as one of the ways to push this thing through and I call BS on that angle.
The "feed the poor" term is yours not mine. Letting people develop their skills in food production would empower them to feed themselves. There is a lot of waste with a program like food stamps, something that could be reduced if people were allowed to do more to feed themselves.

That looks suspiciously like a SUB-urban chicken coop to me. Unless it's on top of a highrise or sumpin .

No no no. If it was a suburban chicken coop each cell would be evenly distributed over the whole yard. :)

LandRun...I can get behind your last post, makes more sense. Something giving a man a fish/teach a man to fish yada yada yada

I like the whole teach a man to fish concept.

Of course, it takes a right fair sized pond to raise enough catfish to be able to eat it regularly. Now, if ya mainly just want to sit on the edge of the water, drop a hook, have a brew and block the sun with your hat brim, then with just a bit of imagination a five gallon bucket, a bit of dirt and 3 gallons of water will suffice.

As you might have guessed already, I pretty much only fished with my father as a lad, and then later on with my boys. For me it was never more about the catching than the catching up. For a spell the boys were way more into the catching. Then they caught on. These days we tend to catch up by phone, skype or text. I miss the pond banks sometimes.

Wish I had a pond where I live.

By sheer chance and with no prompting by me, a message board I frequent started talking about raising chickens. This is a excerpt written by a lady about 70 who now lives in North Carolina but grew up on a farm in the midwest:

<<< The laying hens produced eggs for sale through the summer. The egg money went into the diningroom glass cabinate in a spooner (which by way Aunt Florence just sent home with me yesterday). In the fall that money bought new shoes for the kids to start school. They had been barefoot since outgrowing last year's pare. Wo-be-it to Grandpa if he got in there and took money on Saturdays to go get beer downtown!

Then, through the fall and winter, the chickens who stopped laying became Sunday dinners. No "pets" on the farm! Well, except the barn cats and hunting dogs who had to work for their keep. It was a good life though.

The egg money was Grandma's. No eggs meant instant chickie nuggets in her world!>>

I hope the permit system is approved. Actually I think it will be. Its not a bad compromise.

Why would a permit system be favorable? What problem does a permit solve? And to take it a step further, when has anything pushed for by Meg Salyer ever turned out to be a good idea? No cheating - don't bring up her career as a banker.

There are likely people who are wildly opposed to their neighbors having chickens. They're likely worried about noise, smell, chickens running around pell mell. Are their fears realistic? Looking at how some people treat their other animals, perhaps. Do we want chicken mills, ala puppy mills, operating in our city? So, a permitting system gives the city a bit of control if there are complaints by neighbors. It reassures the people opposed to chickens a bit. it tells people there will be a little bit of oversight. I doubt it will prevent anyone from owning a chicken or chickens if they care for them properly.

I think we should all relax. Considering how slowly the city can move, the fact that they're already working on this means they're on the side of people who want to raise chickens in a responsible manner.

The problem with the permit proposal is that it inserts government between people and their homegrown food. That is a gross overstep and one that freedom-respecting people should not tolerate. There are already laws on the books for enforcing the types of problems you're talking about, e.g. public nuisance, disturbing the peace, animal abuse, etc. There is absolutely no need to give the government the authority to intervene between people and their own food. No one likes permits, but to require new permits that apply to such a deeply personal part of people's lives is not just bad policy, its offensive.

The problem with the permit proposal is that it inserts government between people and their homegrown food. That is a gross overstep and one that freedom-respecting people should not tolerate. There are already laws on the books for enforcing the types of problems you're talking about, e.g. public nuisance, disturbing the peace, animal abuse, etc. There is absolutely no need to give the government the authority to intervene between people and their own food. No one likes permits, but to require new permits that apply to such a deeply personal part of people's lives is not just bad policy, its offensive.

I disagree - at least when limiting this discussion to urban chickens within traditional neighborhoods and on smaller lots. I would prefer a permit requirement that would clearly state the expectations of those who are looking to keep poultry on their property and in such close proximity to neighbors.

I'm not a big fan of gov't in our personal lives, but the fact is the gov't is often needed because our population is unfortunately often filled with complete idiots.

Live on an acreage - I say continue as always with no permitting required as long as zoning allows for it.

But, that's just me.

BBatesokc,
And me!
I disagree - at least when limiting this discussion to urban chickens within traditional neighborhoods and on smaller lots. I would prefer a permit requirement that would clearly state the expectations of those who are looking to keep poultry on their property and in such close proximity to neighbors.

I'm not a big fan of gov't in our personal lives, but the fact is the gov't is often needed because our population is unfortunately often filled with complete idiots.

Live on an acreage - I say continue as always with no permitting required as long as zoning allows for it.

But, that's just me.

The problem with the permit proposal is that it inserts government between people and their homegrown food. That is a gross overstep and one that freedom-respecting people should not tolerate. There are already laws on the books for enforcing the types of problems you're talking about, e.g. public nuisance, disturbing the peace, animal abuse, etc. There is absolutely no need to give the government the authority to intervene between people and their own food. No one likes permits, but to require new permits that apply to such a deeply personal part of people's lives is not just bad policy, its offensive.
There's still government intrusion in hunting and fishing. I can't imagine it's a step over the line to "intrude" into "homegrown" livestock (not food -- you still can garden without any permits).

Do we want chicken mills, ala puppy mills, operating in our city? So, a permitting system gives the city a bit of control if there are complaints by neighbors. It reassures the people opposed to chickens a bit. it tells people there will be a little bit of oversight. I doubt it will prevent anyone from owning a chicken or chickens if they care for them properly.
I wish there were more restrictions to pet ownership -- especially any breeding facility.

You don't need a permit to hunt or fish on your own land.

I'm actually in favor of chickens. My grandmother had them and one of my favorite things to do when I visted her was collect eggs. I used to watch my mother butcher chickens in our city backyard, as she thought they only tasted good if they were freshly killed. However, when we're talking about rights, I think that the rights of the individual have to be weighed against the rights of society. Do I as an individual have the right to own something that bothers my neighbor? When we choose to live in a city, in close proximity to others, we have to be respectful of them. There will be people who abuse the privilege of owning chickens and thus infringe on their neighbors rights to happiness. So, it's not a bad idea to have a few safeguards. If you have specific chicken regulations, it will be easier to obtain help from the city if they are violated than if you've got a nonspecific disturbing the peace or other vague prohibition.

You don't need a permit to hunt or fish on your own land.

And, "your own land" 99% of the time is not a traditional tiny lot in the middle of a neighborhood.

FYI - you fire off that gun on "your own land" within city limits and you'll find out real quick what your limitations are, on "your own land."

No you don't need a permit to hunt or fish on your own land period. If you wanted to shoot a possum or what have you "with a bow" (notice unnecessary quotation marks) you could do that. I don't see the similarity between guns and chickens. Guns are much louder and inherently dangerous.

No you don't need a permit to hunt or fish on your own land period. If you wanted to shoot a possum or what have you "with a bow" (notice unnecessary quotation marks) you could do that. I don't see the similarity between guns and chickens. Guns are much louder and inherently dangerous.

Nice try - But when someone says "hunt ... on your own land" 99% of people assume you mean a gun. And yes, if you're gonna use a gun to hunt "on your own land" then it better not be on your less than an acre within city limits - since we are supposed to be comparing this the chicken debate.

(didn't notice your "unnecessary quotation marks" but your snakiness sure took center stage - congrats!)

None of this resistance is a surprise coming from someone who exploits the poor for a living. But the irony of being called a snake by someone who is fighting to keep food out of the mouths of the hungry is too much.

Doesn't matter. As with the previous Streetcar controversy and the upcoming Convention Center rally, it's a good wedge issue to define the campaign and get the base out. These defeats clearly show why there must be a new mayor who will be able to make more diverse appointments to council.

Excellent use of irony, I think that went over most people's head

None of this resistance is a surprise coming from someone who exploits the poor for a living. But the irony of being called a snake by someone who is fighting to keep food out of the mouths of the hungry is too much.

Good to know when you can't make a point you have to make personal attacks and try to deviate from the topic (all while hiding your identity no less). "Classy"

FYI - My wife and regularly volunteer at the Oklahoma Food Bank, we also regularly volunteer with a S. Robinson non-profit that serves the less fortunate (food, clothing, supplies) and I served food at the downtown Baptist Mission once a week over my lunch hour for years when it was open. So, I'm guessing my hands on efforts to put food in the mouths of the hungry most likely exceed yours.

*'snakiness' was supposed to be 'snarkiness' (but my browser automatically changes it)

Back to topic.....

You could hardly call my perspective 'resistance.' I've said over and over again I'm all for urban chickens. I'd take it with or without a permit requirement. However, I prefer permitting over not permitting - and I provided valid reasons.

People who can't handle a variety of perspectives would probably serve themselves well not to participate in public forums (just saying).

Good to know when you can't make a point you have to make personal attacks and try to deviate from the topic (all while hiding your identity no less). "Classy"

FYI - My wife and regularly volunteer at the Oklahoma Food Bank, we also regularly volunteer with a S. Robinson non-profit that serves the less fortunate (food, clothing, supplies) and I served food at the downtown Baptist Mission once a week over my lunch hour for years when it was open. So, I'm guessing my hands on efforts to put food in the mouths of the hungry most likely exceed yours.

FYI- I knew you had that card up your sleeve and all my points still stand. Promoting hard work and self-reliance are better than indirectly enabling dependency on charity. BTW if anonymity was good enough for the founding fathers, its good enough for me. Look up the Federalist Papers.


Like I said, if you're gonna do it right (meaning a coop that doesn't look like something from a Mexican ghetto) you're fooling yourself if you think you're being financially smart. Face it, its a fun hobby that produces most likely more eggs than you're gonna eat - and expensive eggs at that.
.


Look online and coops like the one above are $300-$1000. Then you buy your hens and feed. Then the time to care for them…. there is no way 3-7 hens is a financially feasible way to feed anyone, let alone 'the poor.' You raise them because you want to, it becomes your hobby and you like the fresh eggs. But you can buy a ton of eggs at the store for what you'd invest to raise your own.
Sounds like you're throwing out bad info and false assumptions as a way of gleaning valuable info, but here it is anyway:

http://youtu.be/WxKCS2JKEY0

A totally free and presentable hen house made out of pallets.

And some paid plans if you're feeling spendy: 19 Chicken Coop Plans & Designs. Build Your Own Coop (http://www.chickencoopguides.com/)

My in-laws are old school, have had chickens and a large garden as long as I've know them. Their coop was built from pine lumber milled from trees they felled on their property and is older than my relationship with their daughter. We met in 1974.

Not everyone can cut their own timber but even with a money and time investment the idea it cost too much to be anything but a hobby is short sighted.

even with a money and time investment the idea it cost too much to be anything but a hobby is short sighted.
So there's no reason a hobby that produces fresh healthy cheap food should be criminalized.

Nope.

So there's no reason a hobby that produces fresh healthy cheap food should be criminalized.

Trouble with that, then by that logic I should be able to raise all types of livestock without restrictions or regulation.

Trouble with that, then by that logic I should be able to raise all types of livestock without restrictions or regulation.

Haven't we covered this ground already?


I doubt the city would even enforce a ban on chickens. They just missed a chance to do the right thing. There are already public nuisance codes, they shouldn't ban chickens wholesale. Thanks to Ed for maintaining some sanity on the council.