Will OKC or TUL ever see mainline service to NYC? I took the United flight to Newark once and it was pretty uncomfortable in such a small jet for almost 3 hours. Wish we could see Southwest service to LGA, but there are probably no slots available. If TUL loses UA service to Dulles I wonder if Southwest would try BWI. Has anyone flown there from OKC? Is it usually pretty full?

Southwest already goes to BWI. Wish they would get a direct flight to Dulles instead but I think Southwest only has two gates at Dulles.

Southwest already goes to BWI. Wish they would get a direct flight to Dulles instead but I think Southwest only has two gates at Dulles.

From OKC yes but not from TUL. DCA would be the biggest prize but getting a flight there would take an act of Congress (literally).

Will OKC or TUL ever see mainline service to NYC? I took the United flight to Newark once and it was pretty uncomfortable in such a small jet for almost 3 hours. Wish we could see Southwest service to LGA, but there are probably no slots available. If TUL loses UA service to Dulles I wonder if Southwest would try BWI. Has anyone flown there from OKC? Is it usually pretty full?

I flew from BWI to OKC last year. Not a seat left on the plane, but I noticed that only about 2/3 got off at WRWA. The flight was continuing on to Dallas.

I had a dream while driving from Tulsa to OKC a couple weeks ago. The distance between the 2 cities is officially 104 miles but outskirt to outskirt is about 84 miles or less. How amazing would it be for our state and 2 cities to join together and build a major airport about 40 miles from each other somewhere near the middle?

Now at first it just doesn't seem to appealing but lets sweeten the pot. OKC just had an article come out about how the city is thriving and becoming a hip place to be. What if we invest in the state's first high speed rail between OKC and Tulsa? It would stop at the central airport about 38-44 miles from each city. At a 110 miles per hour it would take about 25 minutes or so to get to the terminal. I could envision a huge stop at each city on the edge of town with a huge parking lot, hotels, etc. to park and catch the train. Just relax and 25 minutes it drops you off at the terminal.

This would be cutting edge, drastically increase the size of the airport as it would be much more traffic. With that goes more flights, choices, destinations, etc. Even more importantly, it will do something that has never happened. It will begin develop in each direction towards the airport. I've always wondered why Tulsa has never grown west or OKC to the northeast, because both have the nicest and beautiful natural landscape with more hills and trees and natural vegetation.

I know it sounds like a pipe dream but could you imagine how big time that would be and what we could become? One big major airport serving both of our largest cities and a high speed rail to boot. I think high speed is coming soon and why not get on it now? People around the nation that haven't noticed that Oklahoma is arriving will soon get the memo. Please don't get on here and mock me, I know it's hypothetical but on that drive I realized how it really could be done and how amazing it could be if we got behind something like this.

Before anyone says "who will want to commute 25-30 on a train to got to the airport", well people in many big cities would laugh if that was our argument. We are so blessed to not have huge and long commutes like so many other places. Heck, even in the DFW area, people drive 40-60 minutes to go to the airport depending on where they live and how much traffic. I would like to see OKC and TUL stop competing so much and join forces and become a symbiotic and major metropolitan force that may have population growing between each city. Time to start connecting he dots now I say. Pass it one folks!

Will OKC or TUL ever see mainline service to NYC? I took the United flight to Newark once and it was pretty uncomfortable in such a small jet for almost 3 hours. Wish we could see Southwest service to LGA, but there are probably no slots available. If TUL loses UA service to Dulles I wonder if Southwest would try BWI. Has anyone flown there from OKC? Is it usually pretty full?

Ugh, I'm dreading the 4 hours I have coming up in November EWR-OKC in an EJ-145

Saw some diverts come in tonight intended to go to DFW. I see there was a storm near DFW.. but it was only in the approach area for a few mins. Is it just me or is DFW rather sensitive to tstorms?

FWIW, we had a pretty gnarly storm last night. Fairly small supercell but it was quite loud, knocked out a lot of power in N and NE Dallas.


Ugh, I'm dreading the 4 hours I have coming up in November EWR-OKC in an EJ-145

Your flight won't nearly be the worst thing about your trip. Newark Airport is consistently the most disguisting public building I've ever been in. Bring lots of hand sanitizer.

Ugh, I'm dreading the 4 hours I have coming up in November EWR-OKC in an EJ-145

My flight to Newark was leaps and bounds more comfortable than my middle seat 737 flight IAH-LAX. 68% of the airplane has direct aisle access, 68% of the airplane has direct window view. The ERJ is by far the best airplane to fly in when it comes to freedom of movement. The pitch is the exact same on the ERJ as the 737-800. And the seats are in fact, wider (albeit 1/10 in) on the ERJ than the 737.

I know catch22, but it's the lack of DTV or other entertainment for that length that sucks. My laptop MIGHT last that long.

adaniel...I plan on using one of my club passes at EWR so hopefully those are clean

I know catch22, but it's the lack of DTV or other entertainment for that length that sucks. My laptop MIGHT last that long.

Take some non-powered entertainment like a book or magazine?

read? who reads? :)

I most likely will bring a book or two, I've got plenty that I have started and never finished.

I know catch22, but it's the lack of DTV or other entertainment for that length that sucks. My laptop MIGHT last that long.

adaniel...I plan on using one of my club passes at EWR so hopefully those are clean

I flew a transcon EWR-LAX, 737-800 with no EconomyPlus or any PTV, wifi, or overhead screen. 6 hour flight in the same amount of personal space as an ERJ with the same entertainment offerings.

I flew a transcon EWR-LAX, 737-800 with no EconomyPlus or any PTV, wifi, or overhead screen. 6 hour flight in the same amount of personal space as an ERJ with the same entertainment offerings.

congrats? i can't tell if you're boasting if you're just saying my plight isn't that bad. because EWR-LAX on what sounds like a US hard product is awful.

I flew from BWI to OKC last year. Not a seat left on the plane, but I noticed that only about 2/3 got off at WRWA. The flight was continuing on to Dallas.

I wonder if the Wright Amendment ending will have any impact on this route.

I wonder if the Wright Amendment ending will have any impact on this route.

It shouldn't from what I've seen so far. OKC-DAL is down to 3 flights but that should be the bottom. Always possible I guess that the service goes away completely at some point though.

... I've always wondered why Tulsa has never grown west or OKC to the northeast, because both have the nicest and beautiful natural landscape with more hills and trees and natural vegetation. ...

Objects in motion tend to stay in motion. In many American cities/metros you can still find what people considered the good parts of town and the undesirable parts of town around the 1930s, the quadrant that has the best roads and most of the populations was the quadrant that was the good part of town then, Tulsa follows this more closely than OKC. In Tulsa west of the river had a stigma of being the where lower payed oil workers were, the north side was the black part of town. Most of the time people only moved a little further out when they bought a new house, of course the rush to suburbs was not as smooth but even then the largest groups of people still mostly went in the same/similar directions as before.

OU in Norman and Dallas both being south probably had a factor in balancing us out. The NW was the nicer quad to start, which could have been influenced by the presence of the Classen trolley line & Interurban which I think was around 39th/Belle isle/Classen Curve. The school districts eventually played a large roll, much of the NE is OKC, the NW ends up fragmenting with several outside OKC schools.

congrats? i can't tell if you're boasting if you're just saying my plight isn't that bad. because EWR-LAX on what sounds like a US hard product is awful.

Not at all. Just saying, the product is similar on many mainline flights that people praise. Most of the difference is in perception.

FWIW, we had a pretty gnarly storm last night. Fairly small supercell but it was quite loud, knocked out a lot of power in N and NE Dallas.



Your flight won't nearly be the worst thing about your trip. Newark Airport is consistently the most disguisting public building I've ever been in. Bring lots of hand sanitizer.

LGA is far worse IMO.

While I far prefer the Embraers to the Canadairs when it comes to RJs, both are being used far outside their intended envelope. I doubt EWR-OKC was what either manufacturer had in mind. Unfortunately UA/CO have decided that we don't deserve mainline (or even a CR7/EJET) on that route yet. That does sound brutal in a tiny ERJ. While it's good to have so many window/aisle seats, they are just too damn small and the overheads barely fit a small backpack.

As I was hoping/and kind of figured, OKC-EWR is back in the January and February schedule. I'm sure it was an error.

As I was hoping/and kind of figured, OKC-EWR is back in the January and February schedule. I'm sure it was an error.

I agree. There was no logical reason to discontinue that route for a two month period.

Ardmore has applied for $400k in SCASD grants to take steps to established commercial air service at the airport. The $400K will be matched with $100k non-airport cash and then an additional $3.5 million in in-kind contributions. The plan seems to focus on getting Part 135 service initially and then going for a full Part 121 carrier (typical scheduled carrier). This grant is the same as the one Stillwater got last year but has so far been unable to secure service will. Air service would initially be done with Potomac Air Charter providing on demand charter service.

My opinion - this goes no where. I don't expect them to get approved.

Filing Link: Regulations.gov (http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=DOT-OST-2014-0113-0006)

Ardmore falls in that no-mans land that still requires a 2 hr drive to either OKC or DFW but probably couldn't support the fares required to make service there sustainable.

I would expect Woodward to have a better chance of getting service than Ardmore. Woodward could be routed through Liberal or Dodge City and continue to Denver via Great Lakes.

Maybe not quite related to this thread, but figured it was the best place to post it....

Just how real is the possibility of air service across the board being severely affected by the pilot shortage forecast for the future? I think we've been spoiled by a number of military aviators from the Vietnam/Cold War/Gulf War era filling the many positions required to the serve the commercial aviation industry. With military cutbacks always being discussed, increased usage of unmanned craft, how much will those factors affect commercial air travel in the future?

I would expect Woodward to have a better chance of getting service than Ardmore. Woodward could be routed through Liberal or Dodge City and continue to Denver via Great Lakes.

I'm not sure if Woodward will ever see service again since EAS markets continue to get cut.


Maybe not quite related to this thread, but figured it was the best place to post it....

Just how real is the possibility of air service across the board being severely affected by the pilot shortage forecast for the future? I think we've been spoiled by a number of military aviators from the Vietnam/Cold War/Gulf War era filling the many positions required to the serve the commercial aviation industry. With military cutbacks always being discussed, increased usage of unmanned craft, how much will those factors affect commercial air travel in the future?

FAR 117 did a number on the amount of pilots able to be used in Part 121 operations. Airlines like Great Lakes have gone as far as to remove 10 seats from their 19 seaters to now operate under Part 135 and avoid the new 1500 hour minimum for all pilots. The impacts of the pilot shortage will only get worse unless something is done to address it. Unfortunately there isn't much incentive for a person to go out and log 1500 hours only to land a job with a regional carrier making $20,000/yr starting.

Rockin and Rollin for July.

Up 3% on the year, up 6% for July outbound and nearly 5% for July inbound.

Looks like Charlotte flight is doing good, which should be most of American's gain.

http://www.flyokc.com/statistics/July%202014%20Enplanement.pdf

Im sure the senior open helped July a bit as well

FAR 117 did a number on the amount of pilots able to be used in Part 121 operations. Airlines like Great Lakes have gone as far as to remove 10 seats from their 19 seaters to now operate under Part 135 and avoid the new 1500 hour minimum for all pilots. The impacts of the pilot shortage will only get worse unless something is done to address it. Unfortunately there isn't much incentive for a person to go out and log 1500 hours only to land a job with a regional carrier making $20,000/yr starting.

I think its only a matter of time before you start seeing pretty significant price inflation for tickets. Airlines have cut to the bone and then some. People constantly complain about how expensive airfares are but when adjusted for inflation they are dirt cheap. Its simply not a sustainable model.

Speaking of low pilot salaries, I watched the following PBS documentary on this about a year ago and was pretty stunned. You can see it here:

Video: Flying Cheap | Watch FRONTLINE Online | PBS Video (http://video.pbs.org/video/1412744270/)

I think its only a matter of time before you start seeing pretty significant price inflation for tickets. Airlines have cut to the bone and then some. People constantly complain about how expensive airfares are but when adjusted for inflation they are dirt cheap. Its simply not a sustainable model.

Speaking of low pilot salaries, I watched the following PBS documentary on this about a year ago and was pretty stunned. You can see it here:

Video: Flying Cheap | Watch FRONTLINE Online | PBS Video (http://video.pbs.org/video/1412744270/)

Yep. Airline ticket prices have been flat the last ten years. The Fed governments fees and taxes on the other hand....

Happened upon the airport today and saw what appeared to be a government Gulfstream on the ANG ramp. Is somebody in town, or what might the deal be?

Maybe just a C-38

Maybe just a C-38

Nah, this looked like a C-20 or C-37.

Happened upon the airport today and saw what appeared to be a government Gulfstream on the ANG ramp. Is somebody in town, or what might the deal be?

General Grass, Chief of the National Guard, was out at my work yesterday for a conference, he was the keynote speaker.

https://www.jointservicessupport.org/fp/default.aspx

Two rare sights the other night as DFW got hit with storms:

http://i.gyazo.com/45805b08fcdbb634850362bdc4dc58c0.png
http://i.gyazo.com/34d0e9337987eeb79bf492dae518edd4.png

As I was hoping/and kind of figured, OKC-EWR is back in the January and February schedule. I'm sure it was an error.

The Jan/Feb cuts have returned, per today's OAG thread. Either it's a pesky error or United really doesn't (yet) have any idea how to most effectively play those cards for that period of time. I wasn't aware that the construction was to extend into the new year, but I stand to be corrected if that is indeed the reason for the uncertainty.

I don't know.

Is that a DC-10 with winglets or the Lockheed equivalent (can't remember the model)

^That's an MD-11F (Freighter). The DC-10 has a fatter fuselage and is shorter, even the longest variant, the -40, is still shorter. The Lockheed three-engine widebody you're referring to is the L 1011 Tristar (came in many variants from the -1 to -500). I've had the good fortune of experiencing flights in the MD 11 and the L 1011. Awesome planes. Never got a chance in the -10 though.

Some photos to compare...

DC-10

http://img1.jetphotos.net:8080/img/3/1/0/9/66740_1383500901.jpg

Lockheed L1011

http://img1.jetphotos.net:8080/img/4/0/7/4/17734_1364067470.jpg

And to confuse things...a DC-10 with the winglets that were used for the MD-11...

http://rosboch.net/aviationmedia/DC-10-10_N68048_Serial_no_47802_line_no_101_wt_test_wing lets.jpg

I had a dream while driving from Tulsa to OKC a couple weeks ago. The distance between the 2 cities is officially 104 miles but outskirt to outskirt is about 84 miles or less. How amazing would it be for our state and 2 cities to join together and build a major airport about 40 miles from each other somewhere near the middle?

Now at first it just doesn't seem to appealing but lets sweeten the pot. OKC just had an article come out about how the city is thriving and becoming a hip place to be. What if we invest in the state's first high speed rail between OKC and Tulsa? It would stop at the central airport about 38-44 miles from each city. At a 110 miles per hour it would take about 25 minutes or so to get to the terminal. I could envision a huge stop at each city on the edge of town with a huge parking lot, hotels, etc. to park and catch the train. Just relax and 25 minutes it drops you off at the terminal.

This would be cutting edge, drastically increase the size of the airport as it would be much more traffic. With that goes more flights, choices, destinations, etc. Even more importantly, it will do something that has never happened. It will begin develop in each direction towards the airport. I've always wondered why Tulsa has never grown west or OKC to the northeast, because both have the nicest and beautiful natural landscape with more hills and trees and natural vegetation.

I know it sounds like a pipe dream but could you imagine how big time that would be and what we could become? One big major airport serving both of our largest cities and a high speed rail to boot. I think high speed is coming soon and why not get on it now? People around the nation that haven't noticed that Oklahoma is arriving will soon get the memo. Please don't get on here and mock me, I know it's hypothetical but on that drive I realized how it really could be done and how amazing it could be if we got behind something like this.

Before anyone says "who will want to commute 25-30 on a train to got to the airport", well people in many big cities would laugh if that was our argument. We are so blessed to not have huge and long commutes like so many other places. Heck, even in the DFW area, people drive 40-60 minutes to go to the airport depending on where they live and how much traffic. I would like to see OKC and TUL stop competing so much and join forces and become a symbiotic and major metropolitan force that may have population growing between each city. Time to start connecting he dots now I say. Pass it one folks!

Might as well throw in a billion dollar stadium next to the airport to attract professional football to Oklahoma.

I've flown on all three. Loved them!

was there ever DC-10's that flew into OKC regularly? As a kid in the early 90's, I flew on a DC-10 from Newark coming home to OKC, but I don't remember if there was a layover or not.

Only DC-10 that was regular into OKC that I can think of right away is Sun Country to LAS 4x a week in the late 90s. I would have to look back at some older timetables to see if anything else was scheduled. I wouldn't completely rule it out though.

you bet, prior to deregulation OKC saw DC-10's and L1011 Jumbo Jets. I don't think OKC has ever seen a 747 however.

Some good news. Allegiant will return March 5th and run through at least May 3rd (schedule open until May 5th). Two flights per week on Sunday and Thursday to SFB. Flights will be operated by MD-80s still.

you bet, prior to deregulation OKC saw DC-10's and L1011 Jumbo Jets. I don't think OKC has ever seen a 747 however.

Not in regular service, but 747s have certainly stopped in from time to time.

New Southwest schedule came out this morning. This covers much of the Spring break season in March and first part of April.

NewCurrentChangeATL - 1x daily: 650am2x daily: 650am, 515pmDown 1BWI - 1x daily: 725am1x daily: 855amNoneDAL - 3x daily: 605am, 100pm, 655pm3x daily: 840am, 1125am, 635pmNoneDEN - 3x daily: 630am, 1055am, 520pm3x daily: 610am, 1220pm, 750pmNoneHOU - 4x daily: 810am, 1140am, 335pm, 700pm4x daily: 805am, 135pm, 435pm, 710pmNoneLAS - 2x daily: 1220pm, 810pm2x daily: 1205pm, 345pmNoneMDW - 1x daily: 610pm2x daily: 725am, 230pmDown 1PHX - 2x daily: 725am, 250pm2x daily: 730am, 730pmNoneSTL - 1x daily: 550pm2x daily: 610am, 505pmDown 1

So we are looking at a net loss of 3 daily flights. ATL dropping to one daily was already in the works with the fall schedule, but cutting the AM flights to MDW and STL are new. For me personally, I hate the change. It was pretty convenient to hop through MDW or STL on the way to DTW and keep travel time to around 4 hours or less. Now for me if I want an AM flight, I only have the flight to ATL as an option otherwise I'm getting in after 10PM. Might be time to fire up the ol' SkyMiles account again.

It does appear they are wanting the morning folks that normally connected through MDW and STL to instead go down through DAL now.

Wow 18 flights a day.

I've heard the possibility of cutting 9 positions on the ramp at OKC for them. Hope they make it. Seems the entire industry is posting huge profits, but they are axing just about every employee they can get away with -- across the board at all airlines.

This industry sucks.

Some good news. Allegiant will return March 5th and run through at least May 3rd (schedule open until May 5th). Two flights per week on Sunday and Thursday to SFB. Flights will be operated by MD-80s still.

Good news. We are expecting our first child in December and would like to make a trip out to Orlando to visit family and a nonstop flight will help with travel. Thanks for the updates Venture!

Wow 18 flights a day.

I've heard the possibility of cutting 9 positions on the ramp at OKC for them. Hope they make it. Seems the entire industry is posting huge profits, but they are axing just about every employee they can get away with -- across the board at all airlines.

This industry sucks.

It is not what it use to be. Glad (and somewhat sad at the same time) that I'm out of it now.

New Southwest schedule came out this morning. This covers much of the Spring break season in March and first part of April.

So we are looking at a net loss of 3 daily flights. ATL dropping to one daily was already in the works with the fall schedule, but cutting the AM flights to MDW and STL are new. For me personally, I hate the change. It was pretty convenient to hop through MDW or STL on the way to DTW and keep travel time to around 4 hours or less. Now for me if I want an AM flight, I only have the flight to ATL as an option otherwise I'm getting in after 10PM. Might be time to fire up the ol' SkyMiles account again.

It does appear they are wanting the morning folks that normally connected through MDW and STL to instead go down through DAL now.

The MDW change hurts for sure. A lot of the short-ish OKC to NYC/New England flights route through there. Having no midday departure to BWI or MDW pretty much means the flight to New York will be an all day thing if you choose to take Southwest.

wont that fill up United tho? WN loss is UA gain.

A great example of "use it or lose it":

"Norfolk airport weighs sweeteners to lure more flights" (http://archives.californiaaviation.org/airport/msg53197.html)

Looks like AA's OKC-LAX is shifting back to Envoy from Mesa Airlines. Not sure when but when searching for flights in February they're listed back as operated by AA and not US, thank you god. Anyone have insight?

Looks like AA's OKC-LAX is shifting back to Envoy from Mesa Airlines. Not sure when but when searching for flights in February they're listed back as operated by AA and not US, thank you god. Anyone have insight?

Things are going to keep shifting around a lot. Word is that PSA will eventually take over all of LAX, so we'll see another transition at some point. Keep in mind though that it will be a capacity decrease going back to Envoy, but I understand some people just hate Mesa.

Also it sounds like Envoy will be completely out of ORD next year and Skywest and Republic will handle all flying there (CRJs and E175s).

I took mesa on LAX-OKC a few weekends ago and did not have any issues. Seats were just like every other airline and crew was friendly.

I've heard Mesa has really gotten their act together in the last few years. Hopefully it is true.

American announced today that the CRJ-700s will transition from Envoy to PSA next year.

I've heard Mesa has really gotten their act together in the last few years. Hopefully it is true.

Mesa is one of the better UAX carriers now too, IMHO second next to SkyWest.

People say they won't fly a particular express carrier, but the express carrier is only delivering what the brand carrier is asking for. SkyWest Delta is huge improvement over SkyWest United -- but that's not SkyWest's fault. Delta has certain standards they enforce. So does United.

It's easy to blame the express carrier, but the brand carrier is the one that is supposed to enforce the agreement. You as a passenger should not be able to tell the difference between express carriers, the only way you can is when the brand carrier fails to enforce the agreed to standards.

Yeah, I suppose the issue here isn't Mesa itself, but the drastic cutbacks in service on the "new AA" ever since LCC Dougie took over. Just flew my first r/t to/from LAX on Mesa last weekend and really is the same as AA in the back. Up front is where the problem lies. Hell, the CR9 I flew back in on didn't even have an F cabin.