No more nonstop flights from DCA-MSP? I know DCA has many flights to DL hubs, but knocking MSP from that list makes me wonder if MSP is the next on the DL chopping block. Will it become MEM in 2020?

Also, technically AA/US could start non stop service from OKC-DCA, they would just have to give up an already served flight into the airport. Although , is DCA really so important for OKC to have? We already have flights to IAD and BWI. I'd rather get service to a newer region (i.e. CLT, PHL, etc) then service to a region already served by other airlines.

Not a chance in hell that DL cuts MSP. That is one ridiculously lucrative market and the dictionary definition of fortress hub for DL. So, no. Man I miss flying through there, always meant to pick up a Minnesota North Stars hoodie.

I do agree that I'd rather PMAA add OKC-PHL (or even OKC-JFK) rather than DCA, if nothing else but for the int'l connectivity it would offer.

Oh phew. For some reason I thought I read it was DL. Good catch. and happy to see MSP will stay.

This is my problem with it. What in the hell is the point of the divestitures then? Just so you can have 12 nonstops to Orlando or Ft. Lauderdale? It's just stupid.

Also, what is Little Rock doing that they have service to LGA and we don't? And Wilmington, NC for that matter?

It's all in the name of the consumer right? The whole thing is just dumb. I understand free market and all of that, but there is also a reason why we have slots at DCA and LGA that are specifically aimed at small communities. These are key airports into two of the nation's most important markets and the slots shouldn't be wasted on how many people can be crammed into a 737 to Florida.

We should hear this week or next on the slot winners. I think Southwest gets 18 slot pairs, but most of those are going to be used on service to MDW, BNA, and DAL...add'l frequencies to HOU and probably also flights to MCO, FLL, and TPA. All markets that already have existing service.

The small markets once again lose out, and Southwest gets what they want.

The small markets once again lose out, and Southwest gets what they want.

I'm really pretty sick of Southwest.

They've turned into the bully that they fought against when they were the small lovable groovy Texas carrier.

And they've kept the perception of them being the underdog, when in all actuality they are the largest domestic carrier in the country, dominating many markets, and have tremendous pricing power and ability to subsidize low fares where they need to, to squash other carriers.

They've turned into the bully that they fought against when they were the small lovable groovy Texas carrier.

And they've kept the perception of them being the underdog, when in all actuality they are the largest domestic carrier in the country, dominating many markets, and have tremendous pricing power and ability to subsidize low fares where they need to, to squash other carriers.

I think they do this for two reasons. 1) Marketing. It keeps people coming back thinking they are getting the best deal and not even taking the time to compare to the others. 2) Keeps employees inline. Ramp, Airport Customer Service, and Reservations are all in contract negotiations right now and have been in some cases over 2 years without a contract. WN is something like 95% union, the highest unionized airline in the country. The minute you start admitting to having the pricing power that they really do, to the employee groups, the minute they are going to refuse to give up in areas of work rules and outsourcing. Wage concessions are probably a nonstarter due to their streak of profitability still ongoing.

The industry is fairly mature overall now with consolidation nearing an end. Hopefully this will open up the door for new entrant startups to come in and start giving us some options again.

^ I don't even really think it was on purpose. They traditionally have had excellent PR, and brand awareness that has kind of stuck with them. Of course they do play that in their favor when they need to.

Looks like a.net is starting to fill with the rumor that WN came out very aggressive on the slot bids. The DCA slots were divided into 4 buckets... 14, 14, 12, and 4. Word is that Southwest won the bid on the two 14 pair buckets...giving them 28 (total of 44 slot pairs based on existing slots). The other 12 apparently are going to JetBlue (more DCA-Florida), and the final 4 to Virgin America - though I would have liked to see Sun County get them.

If this does work out as true, it is a pretty big deal. Existing nonstop service right now includes MKE, STL, AUS, HOU, ATL, and RSW. I agree with one of the posters on A.net that those will probably break down to:

MKE- 2 flts, STL - 3, AUS - 1, HOU - 4, ATL - 6, and RSW - 1.

So 27 pairs left to go. DAL I think gets 4, MDW - 6, BNA - 3, MCI - 1, MCO - 2, FLL - 2, TPA - 2, JAX - 2, and MSY - 1. That leaves 5 more. Two ways WN could go then...build up more frequency to the connecting hubs (MDW, HOU, and DAL) or get some point to point markets. If they do the later that very well could bring OKC, OMA, PBI and maybe...maybe...TUL and LIT into the mix for 1 daily flight each. They can't do SAT because they are beyond the perimeter and AUS is also beyond the 1250 mile limit. The current slot for that service is a special beyond perimeter slot.

Of course this is all for nothing if WN doesn't get the 28 slots from the two buckets. Also, it can't be ruled out that WN just won't follow JetBlue and everyone else and just dump the slots on high volume markets to Florida.

Beginning April 1, United to IAD and ORD will receive EMB-170 service. Aircraft will be routed ORD-OKC-IAD and IAD-OKC-ORD. Configured to 64 Y 6 F. The E170 is very comparable to mainline when it comes to passenger comfort and overhead space.

Also this change has been in the computer for a while, just haven't mentioned it.

Cleveland will go to an early morning departure now, and evening arrival. Instead of late morning arrival and late morning departure.

Beginning April 1, United to IAD and ORD will receive EMB-170 service. Aircraft will be routed ORD-OKC-IAD and IAD-OKC-ORD. Configured to 64 Y 6 F. The E170 is very comparable to mainline when it comes to passenger comfort and overhead space.

Oh snap - hopefully that means we'll see AA switch to E75s to ORD also!

Oh snap - hopefully that means we'll see AA switch to E75s to ORD also!

That's almost a guarantee from what I'm hearing.

It's just one a day. The other three flights are Cr7 and E45. The upgrade to E70 on IAD fueled the ORD change, as that is how the IAD flight has been routed, via ORD-OKC. Just how that line is constructed. Has more to do with IAD than ORD. With military traffic combined with heavy international traffic IAD frequently runs out of cargo space for all of the bags. The 170 has a lot larger cargo bin, and with good overhead space, less carry on bags to be gate checked.

Looks like frontier counter has been moved down to Delta.

Then United will move to the old Frontier counter by the first part of 2015.

That's almost a guarantee from what I'm hearing.

Nice. Might as well switch OKC-LAX to E75 too, in that case. Or at least increase OKC-LAX frequency back up to 3x/day.

Nice. Might as well switch OKC-LAX to E75 too, in that case. Or at least increase OKC-LAX frequency back up to 3x/day.

That might be an option the future, but if I'm not mistaken, all of AA's e175's will (at least initially) only be flown to/from ORD

That might be an option the future, but if I'm not mistaken, all of AA's e175's will (at least initially) only be flown to/from ORD

At least the ones flown by PMAA (pre-merger). The ones operated by PMUS are naturally going to be flying from the existing hubs on that side.

Southwest was given temporary authority today to operate MCI-DCA on an Air 21 slot being returned by Republic, which operated it for Froniter. Doesn't mean Southwest will get to keep it, but it would open up a slot pair from the ones they are bidding on that would have likely gone to operate a flight into MCI. Still too unclear to figure out how it will impact our chances here.

American Airlines expects to add flights from Charlotte | CharlotteObserver.com (http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/01/28/4645892/american-airlines-revenue-up-as.html#.UuiK-xDna70)


“For you in Charlotte, there’s not a lot you should expect in terms of changes other than I know we’re looking at some cities American serves but US Airways did not,” American President Scott Kirby said Tuesday.The airline is examining whether it’s feasible to add new flights from Charlotte to small and midsize cities in the Midwest. That would add “some new dots on the map from Charlotte,” Kirby said, with once- or twice-daily flights.
The airline didn’t give any examples of which new cities it could start serving from Charlotte. But midsize cities in the Midwest that are served by American but not US Airways include Tulsa, Okla; Toledo, Ohio; and Madison, Wis.

Read more here: American Airlines expects to add flights from Charlotte | CharlotteObserver.com (http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/01/28/4645892/american-airlines-revenue-up-as.html#storylink=cp)

My opinion we'll start to see some news out of AA on the connecting the dots once the DCA slots have been sold off and those aircraft are freed up. So I'm thinking like mid-summer to possibly see some new routes start up.

Anything that keeps me out of Hartsfield going east would be much appreciated.

^Hartsfield-Jackson's one of my favourite airports but as they say, to each his own. Then again I am an aviation enthusiast so I guess I'm one of those few who likes large hubs (save for Paris Charles-de-Gaulle (CDG) ).

Spoke to an AA employee in another city and they've been assigned rights on their network/res system to handle flights from a US Airways Express operator. This airline is one who is losing a lot of flying out of DCA with the slot divestiture and will likely be one to pick up a bunch of flying out of CLT. Not sure if the OKC employees got the same, but a good indicator that things are moving forward and we could hear something very soon on which cities will get connected into CLT first.

In other news today, JetBlue confirmed they won 12 slots at DCA - which backs up the rumor that was going around. Waiting to hear from WN on if they got the bulk of 28.

I'll ask around see what the AA people have heard. Regardless I bet we'll see CLT announced this year. It's a gaping hole in the combined network for AA.

Southwest has secured 27 pairs from DCA.

United's Cleveland hub will be getting shut down this summer. Another one bites...well you know.

United Airlines will pull its hub from Cleveland (http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/local/2014/02/01/united-pulling-hub-out-of-cleveland/5106115/)

Not sure how this will impact the local flight to CLE which is there for the oil and gas folks, but my guess it dies too.

Someone posted the letter from Smisek to the employees...


From: JeffSmisekSent: Saturday, February 01, 2014 4:39:31 PM (UTC-05:00) Eastern Time (US & Canada)
Subject: United to Reduce Flying from Cleveland


Dear Cleveland co-worker:


I want to let you know that we have made the difficult decision to substantially reduce our flying from Cleveland. We will make this reduction in stages beginning in April.


I wanted you to know this information before the press found out, but unfortunately they found out earlier than we planned. I apologize for this getting in the press before we were able to tell you directly.


Our hub in Cleveland hasn’t been profitable for over a decade, and has generated tens of millions of dollars of annual losses in recent years. We simply cannot continue to bear these losses.


No city has been more supportive of its hub carrier, and no group of employees has been more dedicated to providing great service, but the demand for hub-level connecting flying through Cleveland simply isn’t there. Ultimately, we can’t create demand, but we do have a responsibility to react to it. We must make the right business decisions, even when those decisions are painful, so we can continue to compete effectively and invest appropriately in our business.


While our decision to reduce our flying was driven by our continued losses in Cleveland, the timing of the flight reductions has been accelerated by industry-wide effects of new federal regulations that impact us and our regional partner flying. Those new regulations have caused mainline airlines to hire regional pilots, while simultaneously significantly reducing the pool of new pilots from which regional carriers themselves can hire. Although this is an industry issue, it directly affects us and requires us to reduce our regional partner flying, as several of our regional partners are beginning to have difficulty flying their schedules due to reduced new pilot availability. We need to reduce that flying in our most unprofitable markets, which unfortunately are out of Cleveland.


As a result, we will be reducing our average daily departures from Cleveland by around 60%. We expect to be able to keep almost all of our mainline departures (reducing only one of our 26 peak day mainline departures), but will need to reduce our regional departures from Cleveland by over 70%. Together, this will reduce our capacity (available seat miles) out of Cleveland by around 36%. We will make these reductions in roughly one-third increments in each of early April, May and June.


When the schedule reductions are fully implemented in June, we plan to offer 72 peak-day flights from Cleveland, and serve 20 destinations from Cleveland on a non-stop basis, including to all our hubs, and to key business markets like LGA, DCA and BOS. We will also serve from Cleveland on a non-stop basis key leisure markets, like FLL, MCO, TPA and RSW. Importantly, our new schedule out of Cleveland will cover 58% of the current Cleveland-originating domestic passenger demand on a non-stop basis, and will permit Cleveland residents to fly to almost every one of the destinations they fly to today, by connecting over one or more of our other hubs.


We expect to be able to keep our pilot and flight attendant bases in Cleveland, because we anticipate being able to keep substantially all of our mainline departures from Cleveland. We also expect to be able to keep all of our current technical operations in Cleveland, because we anticipate having the opportunity to work on the mainline aircraft. However, since we handle our regional partners’ flying above and below the wing in Cleveland, we will be forced to reduce staffing in airport operations and in catering because of the significant reduction in regional partner flying. We currently expect a reduction in force affecting up to 430 airport operations positions and approximately 40 catering personnel in Cleveland. Those reductions in force will likely begin in June. Each employee will be receiving detailed information relating to these reductions in the coming weeks. Affected airport operations employees may have system displacement options or other opportunities to maintain employment with United, and we will work with the IAM leadership to explore other programs that may mitigate the impact of these reductions on IAM-represented airport employees.


While we cannot change the outcome, we will take every action we can to implement these reductions in a manner that upholds our culture. Throughout this difficult process, we are committed to treating our people with the same level of openness, dignity and respect that our Cleveland co-workers have shown our customers and each other over the years. Our HR team is working hard to support you, and will be providing you with answers and assistance over the coming weeks and months.


I regret that we will be forced to reduce staffing in Cleveland, but we have no choice, given the level of continued losses we have suffered in Cleveland, the pressure that the new federal regulations have placed on our regional partners, and our reduction in regional flying. I know that these changes will be difficult for many of you, and this outcome is not what any of us wanted.




Sincerely,


Jeff

Sad. :(

OKC will lose it's flight.

6543

6544

Well that answers that. Sad for the UA folks and for CLE. The trend continues.

PHX you are on notice.

I'd be shocked if the new American axes PHX's hub, that's a huge market and great airport.

^Only problem is, it's now sitting rather uncomfortably between LAX and DFW. Both of which are more important than PHX. One thing PHX does have on its side is the large percentage of origin-and-destination traffic, which is important to a hub's continued success. But on the other hand, if AA decides LAX and DFW are plenty good enough for its western operations without PHX, then it might be in trouble. If an airline doesn't need a certain hub, that means a lot of money saved in terms of gate leasing charges, landing charges, etc etc, and those planes can be used to make more money at "stronger" hubs. It's kind of like Delta's hubs in Memphis or Cincinnati-if a hub is basically redundant or is shelling too much money, it's not going to last long, especially these days. One thing for certain though is the impact to Phoenix will be much larger than in Cleveland in terms of jobs and economy if PHX does get dropped, so I hope for Phoenix's sake it will not become the next St. Louis. Not that I'm belittling the impact to Cleveland but you get what I mean...

United's Cleveland hub will be getting shut down this summer. Another one bites...well you know.

United Airlines will pull its hub from Cleveland (http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/local/2014/02/01/united-pulling-hub-out-of-cleveland/5106115/)

Not sure how this will impact the local flight to CLE which is there for the oil and gas folks, but my guess it dies too.

Someone posted the letter from Smisek to the employees...

This really doesn't surprise me given United's major hubs in Chicago and Newark.

This really doesn't surprise me given United's major hubs in Chicago and Newark.

It wasn't unexpected at all in the industry.

Which, of course, is why those who think OKC might have a chance to become a hub are merely dreamers.

It was expected, but not this soon.

I personally talked to the person in charge of the scheduling and revenue department recently, and he told me they were trying very hard to make Cleveland work into the new United. Both in a revenue and profit way, and in a network and passenger flow point of view. The guy in charge of that department is an old Continental guy, so this isn't a "United gutting Continental" move. He knows the Cleveland market very well and I trust this was a good decision for the long term at United.

It was expected, but not this soon.

I personally talked to the person in charge of the scheduling and revenue department recently, and he told me they were trying very hard to make Cleveland work into the new United. Both in a revenue and profit way, and in a network and passenger flow point of view. The guy in charge of that department is an old Continental guy, so this isn't a "United gutting Continental" move. He knows the Cleveland market very well and I trust this was a good decision for the long term at United.

From what I'm reading...it seems like it will be mostly mainline service there now to most of the 20 remaining markets. So that really isn't bad at all. It's better than what happened to say...MEM...or what American did to the TWA hub at STL.

Many people also forget that MCI used to be a hub. The last time I was at MCI was quite a few years ago doing a Braniff connection.

Yes, and mostly all of the aircraft that fill the express routings will be retired. Will be a reduction of around 35-40 50-seat jets.

Yes, and mostly all of the aircraft that fill the express routings will be retired. Will be a reduction of around 35-40 50-seat jets.

Amazing how jet fuel killed off the aircraft that caused such a massive boom in service to smaller communities. People wanted jets instead of "unducted fans" because propellers are scary. Result is going to be a lot of routes with no service anymore and a ton of 50-seat RJs in the southwest.

^

It certainly shows how unprofitable those jets are, that the company is not even looking at trying to find any other markets to use those aircraft on. They are simply going to drop around 40 lines of flying (potential of around 220 flights a day) almost overnight (over 3 months -- overnight in the business world)

Yeah...it is happening everywhere. Comair was probably the first major victim of it - I miss them a ton. American is dumping all the Chautauqua ERJ-140s and those will probably get parked. Then I think there are another 50 ERJ-145s being removed from the Eagle/MQ/Simmons/Envoy whatever you wanna call them now...fleet.

I'm waiting to see what American does with the Piedmont Dash 8 fleet and if they replace them with the newer generation props. I would love to see a nice fresh order of ATR-72-600s come in and give that program a massive boost and get them back in the country.

I swear sometimes it seems like we are headed toward a US version of Aeroflot. I feel for you folks that work in the industry.

I swear sometimes it seems like we are headed toward a US version of Aeroflot. I feel for you folks that work in the industry.

Ameriflot coming 2016. :-P

Once I'm done with this programming degree I'm probably jumping out. Though once Jet A gets in your blood...it never gets out. :)

Yes it does. I'm going to stay in as long as I can. When the inevitable happens and they outsource my job in OKC, hopefully I'll have enough seniority to hold a line at a hub.

The main reason people did not like the turboprops was because many a time they were jetway-incompatible at many of the smaller airports (except ones like the ATR 72s), requiring them to step out onto the ramp or worse yet, have a long bus ride to/from the plane (DFW comes to mind in the ATR days before American Eagle switched to Terminal B), and then the biggest complaint about them was the noise inside the cabin (I flew in a Brasilia once right next to the prop-bad idea. The return flight in the last row however was better, save for the buzz I heard in my own voice when I said anything.) Once the RJs came along it was a love-affair for a short while till airlines realized they could also be used on flights longer than 1 1/2 hours, then people disliked those as well. Now of course they're just plain cost-inefficient for the fuel prices today and on their way out.

Newer generation turboprops are way better however, and those that have been retro-fitted with better noise reduction are also better than the old ones. I've read that the Saab 340Bs that Silver Airways uses are much quieter than ones used in the old days since they have been retro-fitted with newer sound-reduction. The ATR 72-500 however is my favourite turboprop, it basically sounds like a CRJ while in-flight, and on the ground the prop noise is not too bad at all (unless you happen to be right next to the blades).

On a different subject, Bergstrom International airport passed the 10 million (http://www.austintexas.gov/news/record-10-million-passengers-2013-austin%E2%80%99s-airport) mark last year.

What does SWA's expansion at DAL mean for OKC?

Airchive ‏@airchive (https://twitter.com/airchive/status/430349176296448000) 19m

#Breaking, new @SouthwestAir destinations from @DallasLoveField: BWI, DEN, LAS, MCO, MDW, ATL, BNA, DCA, FLL, LAX, LGA, SNA, PHX, SAN, TPA

What does SWA's expansion at DAL mean for OKC?

Airchive ‏@airchive (https://twitter.com/airchive/status/430349176296448000) 19m

#Breaking, new @SouthwestAir destinations from @DallasLoveField: BWI, DEN, LAS, MCO, MDW, ATL, BNA, DCA, FLL, LAX, LGA, SNA, PHX, SAN, TPA

Nonstop service from OKC-DAL will remain. I personally expect it to either remain flat or go down to 3 daily flights. The 4 right now seems like a good number and will also work in to feed pax to these new flights. TUL will probably lose one and go down to 4. MCI, STL, ABQ, and HOU should see some cuts. I really don't see a need for there to be 25 daily DAL-HOU flights when most go out half full. Sure business pax love the ability to easily switch flights based on their schedule, but to me it seems like a waste of aircraft.

This doesn't directly impact OKC, but:

http://www.oklahoman.com/article/3930347


outhwest Airlines says it will start nonstop flights from Dallas to New York, Los Angeles, Washington and 12 other cities this fall, when federal limits on the airline’s home airport end.

Southwest expects to add nearly 20 flights a day, to 146 daily departures in November, from Love Field, the airline’s eighth-busiest airport.

On Oct. 13, Southwest will start flying from Dallas to Chicago; Baltimore; Denver; Las Vegas; and Orlando, Fla. On Nov. 2, it will add New York’s LaGuardia Airport; Washington’s Reagan National Airport; Los Angeles, San Diego and Santa Ana, Calif.; Atlanta; Nashville; Fort Lauderdale and Tampa, Fla.; and Phoenix.

Just a curious question to those in the business but why do prices on airline tickets go up as the departure dates gets closer? I was thinking about taking a sporadic trip next weekend for V day but, not to my surprise, the high prices axed that plan. I know there is a reason but you would think you'd want to fill the plane.

Just a curious question to those in the business but why do prices on airline tickets go up as the departure dates gets closer? I was thinking about taking a sporadic trip next weekend for V day but, not to my surprise, the high prices axed that plan. I know there is a reason but you would think you'd want to fill the plane.

Revenue Management is the simplest answer. The basic theory is to reward those that plan their trip ahead of time to allow the airline to plan for it easier, but then increase the fare closer in to ensure profitability of the flight. It is a weighted risk analysis done by a bunch of number crunchers to ensure the airline can make money based on buying trends. It is also important to keep in mind that a full plane doesn't equal a profitable flight. If they fill a flight to Vegas, for example, with a bunch of sub $100 air fares - the airline is probably going to lose a ton of money on it. However, if they spread it out and put say 40 seats at the low fare, another 30 at one $20 higher, another 30 $30 more than that, and so on...they can easily balance the risk and get the flight to a profitable level.

Just a curious question to those in the business but why do prices on airline tickets go up as the departure dates gets closer? I was thinking about taking a sporadic trip next weekend for V day but, not to my surprise, the high prices axed that plan. I know there is a reason but you would think you'd want to fill the plane.

There are always exceptions. Flights don't always fill - and in that case you can get last minute tickets at pretty good discounts. My fiancee just flew to LAX last weekend on AA's nonstop for less than $300, bought less than a week in advance. Normally sells for $450+, even in advance. There's a reason though - when I booked her seats the flights were more than half empty, and F was completely open. So you can get lucky sometimes.

I saw a 747 I believe just west of the terminal.

On a map it shows FAA and US Prisons Bureau. Or was I seeing stuff?

Was probably this. What used to be a 747.

http://gyazo.com/9237c19cda28a073de49767940c951e2.png

If that's the one you saw then, yes, it's the FAA's, the Civil Aerospace Medical Institute's (CAMI) to be specific. Incidentally, the CAMI building is the coolest one on the FAA campus (inside anyway) IMO.

yeah, that is it.

I thought it was a cargo plane!

It appears March 31 will be the last day OKC-CLE operates.

January

http://www.flyokc.com/statistics/January%202014%20Enplanement.pdf

Not sure about if Allegiant had any cancels or not during January, but assuming they ran all of their flights :

166 seats x 9 flights = capacity of 1,494 seats in January.

Outbound: 1137/1494=76% load factor
Inbound: 1160/1494 = 78%

If they had any cancelations the LF would be higher.

I'm not sure what prompted it but American has announced that they are ending interline agreements with Frontier.

It could just be in the dummy schedule,but per recent browsing, I see DL is sending the A319 into OKC from ATL late summer-fall.