I'd say that's a pretty straightforward answer LOL.

While we're talking about widebody visits anyway, I just saw UPS had a 300-600RF come here overnight (likely due to the extra cargo hauling requirements this time of year). It departed to Louisville early this morning. Nice change from the usual 757-200F. It's good time of year to check FlightAware and see what's coming in terms of cargo flights. They occasionally have larger planes to get all the hoilday goods/cargo shipped to destinations in time.
Last year when I was working on the RAC-QTA facility at SDF the airport project manager, contractor and I were out at the new QTA building next to the runway when one of those came in and we talking about the UPS stuff there. They had to extend the runway at both ends to handle that plane, pretty much from limit to limit and for the most part it uses all of that runway. For all of the focus on passenger services by some there UPS is the big dog at SDF and the main revenue generator. The QTA facility renovation/expansion was done with cash as is most of their projects. When it comes time to do the RAC parking garage they might bond that one but they are still trying to figure out how to do it on cash.

They said Mother's Day was actually the busiest time of year for UPS at SDF, there was a story on the news about it. I was there the week before and week after the Derby and there was definitely more UPS traffic.

^Yep, UPS HQ is at Standiford. The MD-11Fs and 747-400Fs also routinely ply to/from there. I saw a documentary once on Discovery about how they handle everything at Worldport, including getting in droves of aircraft within a two-hour time-frame, unloading them all and then re-loading them and sending them out again. Pretty fascinating. I'm guessing the Fedex Superhub at MEM works in much the same fashion.

I would think that the big jump by AA has a lot to do with the new CLT service.

Indeed - also shows how large an AA FF base they have here. Would love to see them capitalize on this - how about a 3rd daily LAX? Or more ORD frequencies? Looking at next spring, and it seems ORD-OKC is back down to an absurd 3x/day. Gotta love this stupid US Airways LCC management that's in place now. I would think this is a good sign for the upcoming AS flight too.

Everyone is bearish on OKC-ORD.

United has cut to 3 daily, American has cut to 3 daily. Southwest has dropped back down to 1 daily.

AA to LAX was 3 a day for a few months but they returned to twice daily as a result of poor loads.

Everyone is bearish on OKC-ORD.

United has cut to 3 daily, American has cut to 3 daily. Southwest has dropped back down to 1 daily.

Bearish on frequency, bullish on yields. Fares to/through Chicago are insane. Then again fares anywhere out of OKC have gotten insane lately.

If yields were good they would be adding more frequency to allow the market to grow more. Yields are trash so they are cutting capicity to bring the yields back up. Bear.

If yields were good they would be adding more frequency to allow the market to grow more. Yields are trash so they are cutting capicity to bring the yields back up. Bear.

Meh, the triopoly is getting content making fat profits. Why grow capacity and potentially lower yields. But we can agree to disagree.

Because if the market wants to grow, you can capture more traffic at a slightly lower yield but make up for it by increasing your capacity.

Do you want 1 passenger to pay $600 if you have 2 that will pay $350?

Right now the market is providing 1 passenger at 600 and the second passenger is not showing up for the $350.

The UA March schedule has been uploaded to reservation systems. We lose mainline to IAH effective March, Denver reduced to 4 daily.

The UA March schedule has been uploaded to reservation systems. We lose mainline to IAH effective March, Denver reduced to 4 daily.

Yay consolidation. Other than the SEA add, options continue to get worse out of OKC.

Yay consolidation. Other than the SEA add, options continue to get worse out of OKC.

Without going into detail, people are not using the mainline seats. Routinely has less than 75 people on a 150 seat jet. Why should they continue to send it to OKC if OKC has no interest in using it?

^Makes sense. It's what Delta calls "right-sizing" the aircraft to the market. Empty seats will not get you larger aircraft, especially these days.

Use it or you lose it. The E175 is proving to be the perfect aircraft for OKC-IAH. Initial indications are that United loves it, and the schedules are illustrating that.

It provides mainline quality at half the plane. It arrives into the C concourse in IAH, which is used almost exclusively for mainline and E175 ops. Carry on luggage fits on board, which allows for passengers to make quick connections without waiting for carry on bags. It has two restrooms on board, and power in the seats. Wifi will be coming on board the Express fleet next year, and also hot meals will be available on all "large" Express flights. So the 170/175 and CRJ700.

It's a good fit for the business market, and it would not surprise me to see all IAH flights go to the 175. The March schedule will be 6 E175's if I remember right, and 3 145's. So it is slowly coming.

I'm great with the E75s 100%. It's the ER4s that drive me nuts.

The 175 is a great plane. The seats are strangely firm but everything catch said is dead on.

Saw some posts on a.net about AA going all RJ to ICT next summer. Is this just a dummy schedule or is that legit? Is AA making any changes to OKC-DFW with aircraft type that is not already happening today??

Saw some posts on a.net about AA going all RJ to ICT next summer. Is this just a dummy schedule or is that legit? Is AA making any changes to OKC-DFW with aircraft type that is not already happening today??

As of now, AA is showing 5 flights next summer with S80s and 5 with CR7s. That is basically the same as now.

Weird question: What makes the S80 "Super" ?

Weird question: What makes the S80 "Super" ?

It's an MD80. American used to use the term Luxury Liner for all their jet aircraft, and amongst the branding they named their MD80's "Super 80's" to differentiate their MD80's from those of competitors.

It has stuck and they still use S80 as the fleet code.

GDS it displays as a M80 or M83. But their internal systems show S80/S83.

To add to Catch's comments, I believe the "DC-9 Super 80" or DC-9-80 series were launched prior to the merger with McDonnell. It eventually was renamed to the MD-8X branding. AA just kept the Super 80 name around for awhile. They did change to calling it the Boeing MD-80 after the Boeing/MDD merger was done.

It's an MD80. American used to use the term Luxury Liner for all their jet aircraft, and amongst the branding they named their MD80's "Super 80's" to differentiate their MD80's from those of competitors.

It has stuck and they still use S80 as the fleet code.

GDS it displays as a M80 or M83. But their internal systems show S80/S83.
The Sabre GDS still displays S80.

Frontier Airlines giving passengers early Christmas present with $19 flights | KFOR.com (http://kfor.com/2014/12/15/frontier-airlines-giving-passengers-early-christmas-present-with-19-flights/)

Frontier Airlines giving passengers early Christmas present with $19 flights | KFOR.com (http://kfor.com/2014/12/15/frontier-airlines-giving-passengers-early-christmas-present-with-19-flights/)

I wonder why they're pulling out of OKC - if people do anything on here it's gripe about price (me included) - so one would think F9 would've been a smash success here?

Frontier has has success here. But the potential for them to have even greater success exists elsewhere.

As their business model changes the need to add and remove routes does too.

Others on here can provide more details than I have... but that's the Cliff Notes version

The Sabre GDS still displays S80.

Ours shows M80.

Frontier has has success here. But the potential for them to have even greater success exists elsewhere.

As their business model changes the need to add and remove routes does too.

Others on here can provide more details than I have... but that's the Cliff Notes versionI know nothing about the airline industry other than it revolves around transporting people in an aluminum tube high up in the sky, but I would think if they were successful here they would stay. I can't understand what having a market that is doing well would do to hurt them or prevent them from being successful elsewhere.

I know nothing about the airline industry other than it revolves around transporting people in an aluminum tube high up in the sky, but I would think if they were successful here they would stay. I can't understand what having a market that is doing well would do to hurt them or prevent them from being successful elsewhere.

As said above, they'll chase the dollar signs if they can. Frontier, with their new business model, is more sensitive to that than they might have been in the past. I don't know what the numbers looked like for OKC, but if they think they can get better numbers somewhere else with that plane, then they'll shuffle it around. Now, if you were to pull out your wallet and buy them a few A320s, then they might think twice about shuffling planes around.

It's also important to note that their model is changing. OKC and cities our size are not really fitting into the new business plan.

It's like if Marshall's changed their business model to a dollar tree model, there are a lot of shopping centers they would need to pull out of because the demographic isn't the one they are chasing.

As said above, they'll chase the dollar signs if they can. Frontier, with their new business model, is more sensitive to that than they might have been in the past. I don't know what the numbers looked like for OKC, but if they think they can get better numbers somewhere else with that plane, then they'll shuffle it around. Now, if you were to pull out your wallet and buy them a few A320s, then they might think twice about shuffling planes around.Is the A320 a hundred million plus plane? I looked at the numbers for the Dreamliner and I was blown away.

Airlines typically negotiate huge discounts from the list price from what little I know. Yeah, seems F9 is moving more toward point-to-point a la Spirit. In that model definitely OKC is a bit small yet.

Frontier is now run by former Spirit management, that is why they are going down this road so to speak. I know they won't get my business anymore and that is all I have flown between Denver and Austin/OKC. Next month the trip to OKC will be on Southwest.

Frontier is now run by former Spirit management, that is why they are going down this road so to speak. I know they won't get my business anymore and that is all I have flown between Denver and Austin/OKC. Next month the trip to OKC will be on Southwest.

After April you won't even have the option. Frontier is ending all service to OKC from Denver leaving just Southwest and United likely causing fares on the route to increase.

I know nothing about the airline industry other than it revolves around transporting people in an aluminum tube high up in the sky, but I would think if they were successful here they would stay. I can't understand what having a market that is doing well would do to hurt them or prevent them from being successful elsewhere.

They make money here, but they can make more flying from cities like Dallas, Houston, and the like. Why stay here and make $1 when you can go to those other cities and make $1.20?


Is the A320 a hundred million plus plane? I looked at the numbers for the Dreamliner and I was blown away.

New Airbus aircraft list prices for 2014 | Airbus Press release (http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pressreleases/press-release-detail/detail/new-airbus-aircraft-list-prices-for-2014/)


Frontier is now run by former Spirit management, that is why they are going down this road so to speak. I know they won't get my business anymore and that is all I have flown between Denver and Austin/OKC. Next month the trip to OKC will be on Southwest.

Actually they are just owned by the former Spirit ownership group (Indigo), their leadership is actually headed by Dave "they're coming to kill us" Seigel formerly of US Airways.

What becomes of the Frontier gate once they pull out?

It will become an empty gate.

I am doubtful on Alaska entering a lease agreement on a gate for one turn flight per day.

It is cheaper to rent a gate for one flight on a daily basis instead of a lease.

If American adds more service...PHL DCA or MIA I could see them maybe wanting a 4th gate and Gate 2 would fit well into their operation. But other than that, it will probably sit empty.

Some silver lining in losing Frontier (some will say losing them is great news -- but just because it doesn't cater to your needs doesn't mean it doesn't to others), is the loss in capacity to the NW (240+ seats a day each way to DEN) will need to shift somewhere. Alaska is entering the market at a good time, the loss in capacity from F9 pulling out will help them command a premium to SEA and other PacNW destinations that Frontier is diluting the market to.

If it comes down to Alaska being successful to SEA or Frontier being successful to Denver, I'd take Alaska.

Would be nice if AS eventually increased SEA to 2x/day. I know, let's not get greedy just yet.

If it comes down to Alaska being successful to SEA or Frontier being successful to Denver, I'd take Alaska.

Not me. I fly DEN-OKC at least once a month and prices will go up with less frequent service especially since Southwest recently cut one of their daily flights.

Not me. I fly DEN-OKC at least once a month and prices will go up with less frequent service especially since Southwest recently cut one of their daily flights.

Southwest is still at 3x daily, which is the highest it has ever been and has been that frequency for several years now.

Southwest is still at 3x daily, which is the highest it has ever been and has been that frequency for several years now.

I could've sworn they used to be 4x before the Wright Amendment ended. Either way fares will probably be closer to what they are to TUL which without Frontier are usually about $50 more.

I need some help from guys "in the know". My father in law has some guys in the oil field company that do a lot of traveling between MAF and OKC. How many people on avg fly between the 2 cities daily?

For some reason the DOT Consumer Air Fare Report website is not working for me; but going off of memory it's around 30-40 per day, so 15-20 each way.

Catch pretty much nailed it...

This is based on Q1 2014 since the DOT is taking their time getting anything new for the year out.

PeriodMarketDistancePassengersAverage
FareLgest.
Carrrier
In Mkt.Mkt. Shr.
Lg. Car.Avg. Fare
Lg. Car.Low Fare
Carrier
In Mkt.Mkt. Shr.
Low Fare
Car.Avg Fare
LF Car.2014Q1Midland/Odessa, TX35632$243.23WN74.0$232.63WN74.0$232.63

Just purchased a round trip ticket on Alaska on the inaugural OKC-SEA flight for July 1. Very good intro-fares, take advantage of them while they last.

$268 round trip after tax. Very good deal.

Alaska and Seattle are two big wins, I didn't want to miss being on the first flight!

i wish Alaska would join Star Alliance. That would be good for Seattle and a counter to SkyTeam/Delta.

Just purchased a round trip ticket on Alaska on the inaugural OKC-SEA flight for July 1. Very good intro-fares, take advantage of them while they last.

$268 round trip after tax. Very good deal.

Alaska and Seattle are two big wins, I didn't want to miss being on the first flight!

Not a bad deal at all. It should be pretty cool, especially the first flight of a new airline to the market.

get the water cannons ready.

Was driving thru Lawton the other day and across from the airport saw a billboard that talked about "Fly Lawton" with a picture of an American Eagle ERJ-175 (or 190, I can never tell the difference).

I'm assuming the picture of that particular plane was a "wishful thinking" thing and that they aren't really getting an upgrade in planes there.

Right?

They have a 777 on the billboards around OKC advertising service to Charlotte despite it being a crj900. Marketing(PR) doesnt really pay attention to what aircraft is scheduled on the route, especially since its subject to change and updating billboards every time the equipment changed in the schedule would be costly.

i wish Alaska would join Star Alliance. That would be good for Seattle and a counter to SkyTeam/Delta.

As a oneworld loyalist, I'll respectfully disagree :)

I could've sworn they used to be 4x before the Wright Amendment ended. Either way fares will probably be closer to what they are to TUL which without Frontier are usually about $50 more.

But WN includes carry-ons and checked bags - which the new F9 doesn't - so that easily makes up for the $50 right there.

Time to make a new thread :) 2015 Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion...

Time to make a new thread :) 2015 Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion...

Yeah I will tomorrow. I haven't had time to get all the stats together just yet for the first post since this section isn't in the wiki format.

Stay home to leave: Airport officials unveil campaign to keep Tulsans at TIA | The Journal Record (http://journalrecord.com/2015/01/06/stay-home-to-leave-airport-officials-unveil-campaign-to-keep-tulsans-at-tia-aerospace/)

As a oneworld loyalist, I'll respectfully disagree :)

I;'m not only being selfish as a star loyalist, but Seattle has a huge SkyTeam presence and ONCE had a Star gateway in United that has significantly scaled back. Oneworld is represented but there's no strategic advantage for them to challenge SkyTeam up here. Star is the only one that still makes sense and given our loss of United, if AK would come to Star then a lot of star loyalists here like myself could use our status points we earned on United and it would therefore significantly challenge Delta/SkyTeam desire to make a hub out of us (and challenge Alaska).

Anyway - I do see your point too :) but mine was moreso a reflection of Seattle's changing air market and the impact of United/Star pulling out. I suppose I and other * members could continue to go up to Vancouver for flighs - which is a very HUGE Star airport but that mostly only works for international flights given their also HUGE intercontinental and foreign flag presence over SEA, US domestic - not any advantage going up to YVR.