Any chance United would connect us to N Dakota while things are booming? Do connections like that happen between small places?

N Dakota's airports are overloaded as it is, so a connection like that would be very tough, on top of the fact that we don't typically get non-stops to non-hubs.

Check out this WSJ article: The Airport That Feeds the Oil Boom - WSJ (http://online.wsj.com/articles/the-fastest-growing-airports-are-in-north-dakota-1406760558)

Does anyone have the passenger counts from OKC to other metros?

Does anyone have the passenger counts from OKC to other metros?

I post them periodically in the thread when they are released. They do tend to get buried pretty quick though, but they are here.

Thanks - I know I've seen them before was wondering what thread to look through. :)

DOT finally got Q1 numbers posted a couple weeks ago, and I finally have time to go through and look at them. For right now, will only look at the top 10 markets, but can expand later. Comparisons will be Q1 2013 to Q1 2014.

Abbreviations
ppd - passengers per day
pax - passengers

#1 Houston
O&D decrease of 13 ppd, WN remains largest though market share fell from 61% to 59%. Fares up from $197 to $213.

#2 Denver
O&D unchanged mostly (down 4). WN remains largest with market share falling from 50% to 47%. Fares have fallen from $142 to $123.

#3 Atlanta
Atlanta is now 3rd. Massive O&D jump from 167 to 398 ppd. WN/FL is the largest, dethroning DL, with market share now at 55%. Fares have crashed from $309 to $188.

#4 Las Vegas
O&D unchanged (up only 3) from 365 ppd to 368. WN still largest and relatively unchanged at 72%. Fares up slightly from $210 to $226.

#5 Los Angeles
O&D up to 345 from 334. WN is now largest instead of AA, even though they don't offer nonstop service. Fares up from $262 to $280.

#6 Washington DC / Baltimore
O&D up from 304 to 325. WN retains largest with 32% market share down from 35%. Fares down from $275 to $260.

#7 Chicago
O&D up from 233 to 286. WN/FL still largest with 27% market share down from 35%. Fares down from $236 to $216.

#8 Phoenix
O&D down from 280 to 243 ppd. WN is largest with 72% market share up from 70%. Fares up from $206 to $235.

#9 Dallas
O&D down from 252 to 226. WN is largest with 54% market share , unchanged. Fares up from $138 to $167.

#10 New York
O&D down to 221 from 235. UA is the largest with 41% market share falling to 35%. Fares up from $285 to $300.

Did you ever have a chance to break down the other markets outside the Top 10? I'm interested in seeing Nashville, Austin and MSP.

Did you ever have a chance to break down the other markets outside the Top 10? I'm interested in seeing Nashville, Austin and MSP.

Here is everything...order is largest to smallest based on O&D passengers in those markets. This is all still just for Q1 2014 since DOT is running really slow this year. Bolded cities have existing nonstop service.

PeriodMarketPassengersAverage
FareLgest.
Carrrier
In Mkt.Mkt. Shr.
Lg. Car.Avg. Fare
Lg. Car.Low Fare
Carrier
In Mkt.Mkt. Shr.
Low Fare
Car.Avg Fare
LF Car.2014Q1Houston, TX634$213.32WN58.9$198.57WN58.9$198.572014Q1Denver , CO503$142.63WN50.1$140.82F925.4$121.552014Q1Atlant a, GA (Metro Area)398$188.04FL55.5$151.31FL55.5$151.312014Q1Las Vegas, NV368$226.19WN73.5$226.58F910.1$164.632014Q1Los Angeles, CA (Metro Area)345$280.49WN32.3$276.86F913.6$164.462014Q1Was hington, DC (Metro Area)325$260.64WN32.2$237.74WN32.2$237.742014Q1Chi cago, IL286$216.23FL27.5$125.26FL27.5$125.262014Q1Phoeni x, AZ243$235.39WN72.0$244.51AA10.4$222.112014Q1Dallas/Fort Worth, TX226$167.24WN53.9$171.81AA45.3$162.202014Q1New York City, NY (Metro Area)221$300.87UA35.5$315.10WN12.2$254.512014Q1Orl ando, FL192$235.88WN38.6$214.67WN38.6$214.672014Q1San Francisco, CA (Metro Area)166$271.82WN32.6$274.39WN32.6$274.392014Q1San Antonio, TX132$224.13WN70.7$224.13AA23.0$218.522014Q1San Diego, CA128$259.66WN44.9$273.53F919.3$173.682014Q1Seattl e, WA115$273.13F934.5$190.15F934.5$190.152014Q1St. Louis, MO111$187.64WN76.2$193.67AA19.5$176.752014Q1Salt Lake City, UT107$252.25DL47.6$280.85F922.2$166.022014Q1Miami, FL (Metro Area)100$304.29AA41.9$296.56AA41.9$296.562014Q1New Orleans, LA87$261.40WN56.4$253.30AA19.8$245.172014Q1Austin, TX86$215.58WN72.0$218.76AA21.1$209.702014Q1Boston, MA (Metro Area)78$310.72AA26.0$311.94UA22.1$292.422014Q1Tamp a, FL (Metro Area)75$281.55WN35.5$261.66WN35.5$261.662014Q1Minn eapolis/St. Paul, MN72$299.25DL58.2$320.26DL58.2$320.262014Q1Portlan d, OR71$253.86F933.5$184.45F933.5$184.452014Q1Philade lphia, PA68$319.42AA44.8$290.41AA44.8$290.412014Q1Detroit , MI67$303.08DL57.9$342.63WN18.5$226.342014Q1Nashvil le, TN67$278.75WN43.5$278.09AA40.0$273.522014Q1Pittsbu rgh, PA65$289.04AA34.2$265.13AA34.2$265.132014Q1Sacrame nto, CA53$280.26WN52.2$281.83UA24.7$265.672014Q1Charlot te, NC52$283.21DL42.2$249.38WN13.9$225.462014Q1Clevela nd, OH (Metro Area)46$293.23UA35.6$320.07AA20.2$259.852014Q1Indi anapolis, IN44$279.04AA35.6$276.42UA19.2$272.102014Q1Kansas City, MO43$258.55WN85.5$246.17WN85.5$246.172014Q1Raleigh/Durham, NC42$324.43DL34.4$340.76UA14.4$275.982014Q1Albuque rque, NM41$208.98AA48.4$188.16AA48.4$188.162014Q1Milwauk ee, WI39$219.84UA29.3$194.50UA29.3$194.502014Q1Columbu s, OH38$296.53AA34.8$294.73WN32.5$290.982014Q1Jackson ville, FL36$282.62DL38.9$304.04AA31.5$249.342014Q1Richmon d, VA32$248.43UA41.7$233.87UA41.7$233.872014Q1Midland/Odessa, TX32$243.23WN74.0$232.63WN74.0$232.632014Q1Sanford , FL32$110.92G4100.0$110.92G4100.0$110.922014Q1Fort Myers, FL31$262.39AA34.6$258.07UA17.5$229.632014Q1Dayton, OH28$229.78AA40.8$222.58UA17.3$210.992014Q1Hartfor d, CT27$303.33DL42.5$304.95UA13.8$260.332014Q1Tucson, AZ26$301.76AA60.5$289.15AA60.5$289.152014Q1Cincinn ati, OH25$319.31DL37.1$358.64UA24.5$299.162014Q1Birming ham, AL24$300.97WN42.3$296.21AA12.7$261.062014Q1Palm Springs, CA24$258.49AA60.4$270.09UA35.4$235.092014Q1El Paso, TX23$279.82WN47.3$289.21AA41.5$263.042014Q1Louisvi lle, KY22$262.19AA40.0$252.31AA40.0$252.312014Q1Spokane , WA21$261.84F938.3$178.11F938.3$178.112014Q1Reno, NV21$300.26WN60.6$293.34DL12.2$284.062014Q1Harrisb urg, PA20$278.84DL43.5$282.09UA41.8$265.022014Q1Norfolk , VA (Metro Area)20$318.21DL54.4$312.78DL54.4$312.782014Q1Knox ville, TN20$280.89DL46.1$282.07UA11.2$209.422014Q1Memphis , TN19$275.42AA56.8$258.12WN14.2$221.912014Q1Corpus Christi, TX18$229.88WN60.0$227.15WN60.0$227.152014Q1Fresno, CA18$245.21UA37.2$231.60F911.0$161.782014Q1Boise, ID18$304.25UA50.3$307.18WN29.4$293.882014Q1Charles ton, SC18$306.34DL64.4$308.40WN19.4$277.402014Q1West Palm Beach/Palm Beach, FL18$355.35DL44.4$437.08AA37.5$279.052014Q1Colorad o Springs, CO17$166.01UA52.3$154.71UA52.3$154.712014Q1Greenvi lle/Spartanburg, SC15$282.11DL55.1$301.93WN23.2$240.692014Q1Little Rock, AR15$212.40WN53.7$217.96AA46.3$205.962014Q1Omaha, NE15$264.26AA66.7$272.80WN21.5$229.822014Q1Pensaco la, FL15$300.92AA29.6$318.52UA18.5$269.272014Q1Savanna h, GA14$311.41DL74.0$304.91DL74.0$304.912014Q1Lubbock , TX14$208.88WN65.9$227.20AA34.1$173.522014Q1Willist on, ND14$456.60UA50.8$484.72DL42.7$430.782014Q1Columbi a, SC13$276.95DL73.6$264.66DL73.6$264.662014Q1Jackson/Vicksburg, MS13$265.44AA57.3$233.68AA57.3$233.682014Q1Grand Rapids, MI13$266.31UA27.8$272.75WN20.0$232.132014Q1Valpara iso, FL12$265.64AA36.6$275.67UA26.8$245.212014Q1Cedar Rapids/Iowa City, IA12$251.45AA39.1$310.24DL20.9$195.052014Q1Baton Rouge, LA12$243.40AA52.8$228.96AA52.8$228.962014Q1Lafayet te, LA12$241.15AA46.7$200.71AA46.7$200.712014Q1Greensb oro/High Point, NC12$325.38DL66.3$312.29DL66.3$312.292014Q1Casper, WY11$256.56UA93.2$254.52UA93.2$254.522014Q1Buffalo , NY11$292.85UA37.3$265.68UA37.3$265.682014Q1Lexingt on, KY11$270.25DL46.5$255.51DL46.5$255.512014Q1Shrevep ort, LA11$243.31AA92.0$237.96US3.0$157.532014Q1Panama City, Florida11$298.79WN62.2$284.47WN62.2$284.472014Q1De s Moines, IA11$295.05AA74.2$293.44AA74.2$293.442014Q1Syracus e, NY11$275.73UA43.3$232.12UA43.3$232.122014Q1Fargo, ND11$274.85DL30.5$290.68US11.6$202.962014Q1Billing s, MT10$325.82UA79.6$338.39DL19.4$280.91

Thank you!!

So is there a set number of passengers that we would need to have to establish non-stop service to a location?

So is there a set number of passengers that we would need to have to establish non-stop service to a location?

Usually around 100-150 these days. With the RJ market vanishing for 50-seaters, that has really hampered the ability to launch some of these thin routes. However, I also think that nonstop service - with good fares - can still boost a market to make it work even if they are on the low end. Look at the gigantic jump Atlanta has made.

Usually around 100-150 these days. With the RJ market vanishing for 50-seaters, that has really hampered the ability to launch some of these thin routes. However, I also think that nonstop service - with good fares - can still boost a market to make it work even if they are on the low end. Look at the gigantic jump Atlanta has made.

Venture, are the numbers just too low for San Antonio, Seattle, and New Orleans?

If OKC has good demand for traveling west, then why doesn't DL offer more than 1., maybe 2 flights a day to SLC?

If OKC has good demand for traveling west, then why doesn't DL offer more than 1., maybe 2 flights a day to SLC?

They offer 3 in the summer time.


This winter here is our western US service. (Which is less than summer peak)
There is a ton of service to the West and NW.

United offers 140 seats to/from SFO, 140 seats to/from LAX; 540 seats to/from Denver
American/Us Airways offers 304 seats to/from LAX
Southwest offers 548 seats to/from Las Vegas; 548 seats to/from Phoenix; 822 seats to/from Denver
Frontier offers 276 seats to/from Denver
Delta offers 152 to/from SLC

So it looks like DL offers the fewest west coast seats.

Why is that compared to the other airlines

Venture, are the numbers just too low for San Antonio, Seattle, and New Orleans?

The problem is not demand but getting an airline to offer these type of routes. Southwest could do it but not with a 737. If Southwest had a fleet of smaller planes maybe we see these types of routes.

So it looks like DL offers the fewest west coast seats.

Why is that compared to the other airlines

The OKC-West market only has so much demand. Delta has been weak on the west coast for quite some time, only until recently (past 5 years) have they tried to be bigger (LAX SEA).

OKC is well served to the west, so if they want to gain OKC-West marketshare they would have to add a ton of capacity, and drop their fares. If 1-3 flights a day, depending on the season, is enough to have a profitable slice of the market, why would you want to fight for a larger slice of the market if that meant making it unprofitable?

Also, Delta doesn't have many REAL hubs in the west. Really, SLC is the only true hub Delta has in the west, LAX and SEA are gateway cities.

And, IMO SLC is one of Delta's weaker hubs at that; would be stronger if Delta had International there but they decided to give to LAX and SEA. To me, Delta is a weird run airline. ...

I was taking a look through the early-morning departures for tomorrow and saw Delta has a 717-200 to DTW, pretty cool. I'm guessing this is a temporary schedule for extra capacity.

I was taking a look through the early-morning departures for tomorrow and saw Delta has a 717-200 to DTW, pretty cool. I'm guessing this is a temporary schedule for extra capacity.

Yes, it is temporary and it is being used several days this week only. Interestingly they are also using an Airbus on that route from DTW to OKC on Dec. 6th and 13th flying back to DTW on the 7th and 14th.

OKC Thunder vs Detroit?

OKC Thunder vs Detroit?

Delta does a lot of this as they manage their fleet. Nothing to do with the Thunder.

I flew through ATL outbound Thurs and inbound last night and both flights on Delta were mainline and completely full. I was also shocked at the number of status flyers. There were 29 people on the upgrade list and I saw numerous Diamond and Platinum tags on bags walking past into coach seats.

Credit cards make it stupid easy to get status on airlines these days. Very few hit it by miles/points or qualifying segments anymore.

Credit cards make it stupid easy to get status on airlines these days. Very few hit it by miles/points or qualifying segments anymore.

Well, to be fair, to get to Platinum, you really need to spend and fly, no way to generally get that on spend alone. Diamond is a bit more attainable, but still does require some travel.

Well, to be fair, to get to Platinum, you really need to spend and fly, no way to generally get that on spend alone. Diamond is a bit more attainable, but still does require some travel.

I was thinking anything on DL except Silver require some actual miles. I don't carry any DL cards but my understanding is the top card (Delta Reserve Amex) only gives 30 k in MQM miles. I did just notice that it also gives upgrade preference over non reserve members at same level. That pisses me off as my status is based all on flight miles and most are generally higher tickets as I wait to buy tickets

Credit cards make it stupid easy to get status on airlines these days. Very few hit it by miles/points or qualifying segments anymore.

About to finally get American status on segments.

About to finally get American status on segments.

I had Delta Silver back in the day, purely off flying. Yeah it means nothing now, but I still loved the free first upgrades from OKC all the time. :)

ditto with me on United. :D

I was guaranteed upgrade in/out of OKC up go just 2 years ago.

October numbers are in. Growth has slowed but remains good.

http://www.flyokc.com/statistics/October2014Enplanement.pdf

So yeah Delta apparently wants to have 30 gates at SEA. It goes without saying some of the locals and Alaska fans are not too happy about this decision, but Delta seems to have bigger plans than previously stated.

Source: Seattle Times (http://seattletimes.com/html/travel/2025049090_deltaseattlealaskaxml.html)

What are the numbers for UA on the EWR route? That EJ145 is just awful, over 4.5 hours last night fighting that head wind. And then to get at the gate after 11pm and have to wait for another plane at the gate. Catch were you working last night?

I'm glad to see the Delta expansion.

Now if they would just starting flying direct to OKC...

I'd rather have AS. Especially if they join oneworld...

What are the numbers for UA on the EWR route? That EJ145 is just awful, over 4.5 hours last night fighting that head wind. And then to get at the gate after 11pm and have to wait for another plane at the gate. Catch were you working last night?

EWR is being dropped January and February if it makes you feel any better. Sorry you had to wait.

Oh no big deal I know you guys were doing your job. That drop is only temporary right?

It seems to resume on March 5th. It's an E170 in the last few weeks of December. And it is occasionally an E170. The cut seems to fall into a desperate plan to eliminate loss-generating flying during the winter months, due to the increased pressure from Wall Street. A lot of East coast flights are removed for January February this year. EWR and IAD to various stations.

We will know for sure if it resumes on December 6th, the March 5-April 6 schedule will be uploaded into GDS systems on that date.

October numbers are in. Growth has slowed but remains good.

http://www.flyokc.com/statistics/October2014Enplanement.pdf

Here are the revised numbers, American under-reported their numbers.

http://www.flyokc.com/statistics/October2014EnplanementRevised.pdf

Growth is keeping up pace and has not slowed.

wonder what happened to my post?

here goes again:

so, we're looking at 3.8M+ pax for 2014 and 4.0M+ for 2015 assuming the 4.5% growth continues. ..

It's too bad that AS doesn't make at least ONE flight a week SEA-OKC a revenue flight, much like AA does for MIA-TUL. I personally thing it would be a hit and give AS 200+ more potential pax per week with no risk.

I suppose the pilot/flight attendant is probably an issue, but they could make SEA-OKC a red eye (Mon 1:00-6:35am local times), take the plane out of service, bring over new plane, run OKC-SEA in the morning rush (Mon 8:00-9:55am local times). No OT, flight crew gets BREAKfast, and all flight-ops still within 10 hours.

What is interesting with the growing passenger numbers is the fact that every single airline is reducing capacity into OKC next year.

What is interesting with the growing passenger numbers is the fact that every single airline is reducing capacity into OKC next year.

But will that just mean more full flights, or are they actually cutting real capacity?

Fewer seats are being offered next year than this year, at least for the first three months of the year where the schedules are firmed up.

Why do I constantly hear about how the airline industry is growing but flights get harder and more expensive to get? Wright amendment? Airlines only flying full routes?

This just in: in the matter of who between Delta and Alaska will give us a link to Seattle first, the cookie goes to Alaska.

Alaska Airlines Expands Partnership with SkyWest, adds New Routes (http://splash.alaskasworld.com/Newsroom/ASNews/ASstories/AS_20141125_045610.asp)

SEA-OKC 10:30-16:00
OKC-SEA 16:40-18:30

Daily service with SkyWest E175 beginning 1 July.

You are too fast Tiger. :-D

About time. I wouldn't be surprised to see occasional 737 substitutions just for maintenance...

With the good news comes the bad news.

Frontier is pulling out of OKC on Apr 29.

And EWR-OKC on UA will not return in March or April.

With the good news comes the bad news.

Frontier is pulling out of OKC on Apr 29.

And EWR-OKC on UA will not return in March or April.

So what is the link to the east coast on UA nonstop, nothing?

Dulles.

that's right, always forget about IAD because I never fly there.

that's right, always forget about IAD because I never fly there.

Dulles sucks for domestic connections and O&D because of the timing. Great for euro. Arriving at 230pm puts you at your downline connection too late for productivity.

Tulsa appears to be losing IAD and EWR, so it could be worse.

Very surprised to be losing EWR. Can't believe they had trouble, even in the winter, filing a E145 daily to New York City! I definitely feel like OKC is oriented to the west instead of the east for business and leisure travel, what with non-stops to SFO and multiple flights to LAX, now SEA, PHX, SLC, LAS and DEN. And one daily to BWI, nothing to NYC anymore, nothing to BOS, very little to DC. I mean there is a little to DTW, CLT, and a moderate amount to ATL, but nothing to Florida. Even the smallest cities in the east have flights to Florida. People and businesses here just must be more connected to the west than east. I find that interesting. Because if you go to a place like, OMA, MCI or STL, cities not too far away, they seem much more oriented to the east than we are here. Even LIT has LGA service and two carriers to Florida! (DFW is just too big to compare, a city that large is oriented to the whole world!)

I guess there is just too much capacity to DEN from here for F9 to make it. I can't say I'll miss them, I don't care for their product.

so happy about the Seattle-OKC announcement for Alaska. It's about time!

So sad about the EWR-OKC and F9 DEN-OKC. Shoot, it almost seems like one foot forward, two steps backward.

Hopefully there will be more consideration and we'll get those routes back as it would equal overall growth. If not then perhaps OKC could get more mainline to ORD or IAD to funnel the NYC pax who'd start using those hub routes.

Losing EWR definitely sucks but I wouldn't consider losing F9 to DEN as a step backward.

I guess there is just too much capacity to DEN from here for F9 to make it. I can't say I'll miss them, I don't care for their product.

I hear you! I tried them once last year and I vowed it would be the last. F9 is obsessed with bag sizes, $2 soft drinks, and charging extra for just about everything including carry-ons. They actually demanded that I resize my bag to get back on the exact same plane I just deplaned from at DEN that was going on to OKC. It obviously fit because I had it sized to get on that exact plane to begin with. But the worst thing I saw was a couple that went ballistic at the gate because F9 told them they were going to charge them $100 for the woman's carry-on since they didn't pay for it at the ticket counter. When the woman pleaded with them and said she didn't know they actually charged for carry-ons in the first place, the ticket agent told them carry-ons were only free if they reserved their tickets through Frontier's website. And if you didn't pay the $25 or whatever at the ticket counter, it was $100 at the gate. Evidently, they had booked through Priceline, Expedia, or some travel service. Fortunately for me, I had booked through their website solely so I could select seats and didn't have to encounter this situation personally.

It's actually kind of surprising as I believe their numbers had been trending upward over the last year for some odd reason. While I don't like seeing an airline leave the market because it can affect pricing, I certainly won't miss their "service."

I'm pretty jazzed about the direct flight from here to OKC, but I need it to start before July =(

I'm not too bummed about losing the EWR flight. While I see the need for those on the east coast to take it, it was horribly timed for international flights.

You are too fast Tiger. :-D

My cat-like reflexes extend to the information superhighway as well. :D


With the good news comes the bad news.

Frontier is pulling out of OKC on Apr 29.

And EWR-OKC on UA will not return in March or April.

Dommage...Frontier and United were my first go-to airilines. Both have worked themselves off of my go-to list over the past year or two.


It's actually kind of surprising as I believe their numbers had been trending upward over the last year for some odd reason. While I don't like seeing an airline leave the market because it can affect pricing, I certainly won't miss their "service."

If one plays the game and knows the rules, it's not too bad. Either way, there's a reason why Spirit is making bank, and Frontier is headed in that direction. I did the vast majority of my flying with them before the switch to ULCC, and they were a great airline to utilize. Yeah, they were hurting by going head-to-head with United and Southwest, but the Frontier experience was nice while it lasted.

I'm not too bummed about losing the EWR flight. While I see the need for those on the east coast to take it, it was horribly timed for international flights.

The EWR flight was timed for OKC O&D and domestic connections.

IAD was timed for Euro connections, and a very small number of domestic connections. The hubs served different roles. Just because one flight did not serve your needs does not mean it didn't serve the market it was intended to serve.

The EWR flight was timed for OKC O&D and domestic connections.

IAD was timed for Euro connections, and a very small number of domestic connections. The hubs served different roles. Just because one flight did not serve your needs does not mean it didn't serve the market it was intended to serve.

It's like saying because Taco Bueno shut a location down that it is not bad because it was horrible for Chinese food. The EWR flight was never timed for international connections, and can't really be judged on its inability to offer those to you. The hub 150 miles down the coastline is set up for Euro connections.

Catch22: I get that. I was just referencing the times that I flew to Europe how the flight timed out for me. United presented it to me as an option at time of booking... and the thought of sitting in EWR for 8 hours was not something I wanted to do :)

Frontier is moving into bigger markets. OKC is too small for the direction it is going. Nothing to do with passenger loads specifically.