A whole lot of special interest going on in this thread....

Fracing waste water Wells from Oklahoma, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and dozens of other places with almost no recorded seismic activity until the last..o seven years....that have 1 thing in common.

Nothing to see here move along.
In other words, cause should not be confused with correlation when it comes to oil field operations and earthquakes.

This whole fake industry discussion reminds me of the 25 years it took to kinda sorta say that cigarettes may have something to slightly due with cancer.

Good to know we aren't hearing any hyperbole from the other side...

This kind of backs up what I was trying to say.... the salt water disposal wells may be causing it, it just has to have a fault nearby to create the quake. The article also says they've been doing the wastewater injustions for 17 years in the area without incidence.

So is it fracking or saltwater injection that's the root of the cause, or maybe both?

So is our fracking affecting South Carolina too? Of course they have all of that saltwater right next to them so that could be the problem too. LOL

Small quake in SC felt hundreds of miles away | News OK (http://newsok.com/small-quake-in-sc-felt-hundreds-of-miles-away/article/feed/651528)

Fracking has nothing to do with it. The theory is that brine water disposal wells that are located near fault lines are the cause of increased seismic activity. I wish people would quit confusing the two. Brine water disposal wells are necessary even if multi-stage fracking isn't being done. Every oil/gas well produces brine water regardless of the completion technique that was used on it. The use of multi-stage fracking just increases the amount of produced brine water up front which leads to more brine being sent downhole in those disposal wells the first couple months.

People who say the force from the perf guns going off are causing the earthquakes are nuts. I've been on the surface when those go off many times and you never even feel anything immediately above it, let alone miles around it.

Honestly it seems like a pretty easy theory to test. Quit disposing of water in disposal wells that are located near fault lines for awhile and see if seismic activity decreases or not. I guess it hasn't gotten to the point where anyone feels that's necessary though.

How much time elapses between when the last water was pumped down hole, and when the nearest measurable earthquake occurred. Regarding the video, simply looking at a map is not thorough enough.

Fracking has nothing to do with it. The theory is that brine water disposal wells that are located near fault lines are the cause of increased seismic activity. I wish people would quit confusing the two. Brine water disposal wells are necessary even if multi-stage fracking isn't being done. Every oil/gas well produces brine water regardless of the completion technique that was used on it. The use of multi-stage fracking just increases the amount of produced brine water up front which leads to more brine being sent downhole in those disposal wells the first couple months.

People who say the force from the perf guns going off are causing the earthquakes are nuts. I've been on the surface when those go off many times and you never even feel anything immediately above it, let alone miles around it.

Honestly it seems like a pretty easy theory to test. Quit disposing of water in disposal wells that are located near fault lines for awhile and see if seismic activity decreases or not. I guess it hasn't gotten to the point where anyone feels that's necessary though.

It may not be near a fault, but the Oklahoma Corporation Commission ordered a disposal well operator to suspend operations. EARTHWORKS | Officials in the swarm zone taking action after taking heat (http://www.earthworksaction.org/media/detail/officials_in_the_swarm_zone_taking_action_after_ta king_heat#.Uv-YVVfux5c)

It may not be near a fault, but the Oklahoma Corporation Commission ordered a disposal well operator to suspend operations. EARTHWORKS | Officials in the swarm zone taking action after taking heat (http://www.earthworksaction.org/media/detail/officials_in_the_swarm_zone_taking_action_after_ta king_heat#.Uv-YVVfux5c)

Good stuff. It's good to see that they're using that "traffic light" approach and are taking the issue seriously while they collect data. I wish they would clear up their terminology though. "Injection wells" are water injection wells used in secondary recovery techniques. What they should be calling these are "disposal wells". The principal is the same but the use is different.

I know up in PA they have "water impoundments" that are operated by the E&P company that is utilizing them, and they're also different. In that case they inject the produced water immediately after fracturing operations are complete and then come back and withdrawal water from the same impoundment to use in other fracturing jobs. They're essentially used as short-term storage until the water is recycled and used again. I'm not sure if they use this same procedure in OK/TX or not. Like I said it is hard to tell because of their terminology.

I know that PA isn't shaded in the map at the top, but looking at that I would assume that PA is the only state to require the impoundments I mentioned. They don't seem to have any earthquakes based on that image. That's fascinating, if true, because the Marcellus (PA) is probably the third most active field in the US behind the Eagleford and Bakken.

Edit: Just saw that the Bakken (ND) and Eagleford (South TX) don't have any data points indicating recent earthquakes. That would tell me that the problem isn't disposal wells, but more specifically disposal wells located near major faults. There is no other way to explain for those areas not having major seismic activity if the problem is the sheer amount of fluid being disposed of, because those are by far the two most active fields. Or it could just be that the image doesn't include those areas, I don't know.

Just had a little shaker in North OKC/West Edmond @ 1951.

Shook pretty hard here.

It isn't coming up on my quake feed - what size was it do you suppose?

Says 3.5 on the above website, heard a muffled boom and then the house shuddered a bit

Felt that one east of I-35 in Edmond.

3.5-magnitude earthquake strikes southwest of Guthrie | News OK (http://newsok.com/3.5-magnitude-earthquake-strikes-southwest-of-guthrie/article/3934225)

I'm pretty sure that was an earthquake just now... Anyone else feel it?

I'm pretty sure that was an earthquake just now... Anyone else feel it?

Yep - jolted the house in SE Edmond.

I'm pretty sure that was an earthquake just now... Anyone else feel it?

Yeah, was just about to fall asleep when it popped me out of it.

I'm pretty sure that was an earthquake just now... Anyone else feel it?


Yep.....
Pretty good shake too.

aftershock just now

Didn't feel a thing in NW OKC.

Primary quake was a 4.2 so far. Yes there was an aftershock (see image at the very top of this page).

M4.2 - 11km SSW of Guthrie, Oklahoma 2014-02-17 04:54:59 UTC (http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eventpage/usc000mrse#summary)

4.2, Guthrie.

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/product/dyfi/usc000mrse/us/1392613723607/usc000mrse_ciim.jpg

I didn't feel it in Norman.

I heard it way before I felt it. It sounded like a distant train or a semi engine about 4-5 seconds before the ground shook.

I didn't feel it in Norman.

I was just telling the other half the same. Normally anything north of 4.0 and we tend to feel something down here. Nothing this time in SE Norman.

Tonight's quake is the third 4.0+ quake in 8 days.

I heard it way before I felt it. It sounded like a distant train or a semi engine about 4-5 seconds before the ground shook.

I thought at first a semi was coming through the wall, then realized it was another Q.

Looks like 2 more small aftershocks.

UPDATE: Three earthquakes recorded near Guthrie on Sunday night | News OK (http://newsok.com/update-three-earthquakes-recorded-near-guthrie-on-sunday-night/article/3934513)

I was just telling the other half the same. Normally anything north of 4.0 and we tend to feel something down here. Nothing this time in SE Norman.

Tonight's quake is the third 4.0+ quake in 8 days.

It's been downgraded to 3.8.

I'm pretty sure that was an earthquake just now... Anyone else feel it?Yep; near NW 122 and Council. One sharp shock as if a truck had run into the house, but that was all...

I find it fascinating how some people feel every little thing, and others not a peep. I'm not far from you Jim and I felt or heard nothing last night.

That Liberty Lake area is active

My wife didn't feel it either; it was a single sharp shock, and could just as easily been a strong gust of wind blowing on the house. However I did note down the time, just in case.

That's the first one I've felt since the "big" one a couple of years back, and only the third in Oklahoma in my lifetime (the first being the El Remo quake in the early 50s).

M2.6 - 20km SSW of McCord, Oklahoma 2014-02-18 07:15:33 UTC (http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eventpage/usc000msib#summary)
We couldn't go 24 hours. We just had a small earthquake a few minutes ago.

More shakeums this morning:

M3.8 - 11km SSW of Guthrie, Oklahoma 2014-02-17 04:54:59 UTC (http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eventpage/usc000mrse)

And perhaps a smaller one just a few minutes after?

I wish I could decide whether these smaller earthquakes are a pressure-relief that helps mitigate the risk for a larger tremor, or if they are really just precursors to another big one down the road? :)

Monthly figures are updated in the chart at the top. We are now averaging over 14 quakes per day in Oklahoma.


M2.6 - 20km SSW of McCord, Oklahoma 2014-02-18 07:15:33 UTC (http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eventpage/usc000msib#summary)
We couldn't go 24 hours. We just had a small earthquake a few minutes ago.

Not sure what 24 hour period you are talking about? LOL Monday had one of our highest daily totals I've seen in awhile - 54 total quakes.


More shakeums this morning:

M3.8 - 11km SSW of Guthrie, Oklahoma 2014-02-17 04:54:59 UTC (http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eventpage/usc000mrse)

And perhaps a smaller one just a few minutes after?

I wish I could decide whether these smaller earthquakes are a pressure-relief that helps mitigate the risk for a larger tremor, or if they are really just precursors to another big one down the road? :)

We would think this would help mitigate the risk, but then what if this slipping of the faults just makes the situation worse for a large one down the road. Who knows. The 5.6 last time was surrounded by a few 4.0+ quakes, so those didn't mitigate keeping it from happening. Also the significant jump in the number is pretty impressive. 54 quakes yesterday alone. The vast majority (except maybe 5 from my count) where in the same area of Logan County. That area of the fault is really grumpy right now and a ton of pressure in that area.

“We have no way to predict the future. Earthquakes aren’t predictable. Certainly the more earthquakes we have, the more likely we are to have a larger one,” Holland said.

Read more: Why are Oklahoma earthquakes so loud, frequent? | Oklahoma City - OKC - KOCO.com (http://www.koco.com/news/oklahomanews/around-oklahoma/why-are-oklahoma-earthquakes-so-loud-frequent/24511840#ixzz2tgbG2JgA)

Man Made Earthquakes Update: http://www.usgs.gov/blogs/features/usgs_top_story/man-made-earthquakes/?from=textlink

Spend $49 on one of those earthquake sensors. Maybe that will make the earthquakes stop.

Fracking's Latest Scandal? Earthquake Swarms | Mother Jones (http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/03/does-fracking-cause-earthquakes-wastewater-dewatering)


"The Wilzetta was a dead fault that nobody ever worried about." Then the drillers came. And so did a swarm of quakes.

I believe a new instrument to record earthquakes has been placed in Guthrie.

Fracking's Latest Scandal? Earthquake Swarms | Mother Jones


The impact of fossil fuels is no secret, but until now the short list of dirty energy's villains never included water.

Gee, that article isn't biased at all. /sarcasm.

Fracking's Latest Scandal? Earthquake Swarms | Mother Jones (http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/03/does-fracking-cause-earthquakes-wastewater-dewatering)

I don't want to take this thread too far of course in discussing possible fracking implications, but last thing the Oklahoma O&G industry need is a proven link between fracking/water injection and earthquakes. There is tremendous special interest on both sides of this debate. Look in from the outside though, could you imagine the hammer that would be brought down on them should a 6.0+ (significant) quake occur with widespread damage? The lawsuits would run them completely out of the business. Not to mention the state would see significant, devastating impacts to revenue streams if production has to be shut down anywhere near the faults in the state.

My feeling though is, whether or not the drilling reactivate the fault or not, the cat is out of the bag and there isn't going to be anything we can do now to stop it. It'll remain active for awhile now until the stress is handled or it locks up again.

Fracking's Latest Scandal? Earthquake Swarms | Mother Jones



Gee, that article isn't biased at all. /sarcasm.

Ya, Mother Jones isn't the best source, but I thought the article had some pretty good points.

A timelapse of Oklahoma earthquakes | News OK (http://newsok.com/a-timelapse-of-oklahoma-earthquakes-through-the-years/article/3934892?custom_click=rss&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)

Ya, Mother Jones isn't the best source, but I thought the article had some pretty good points.

I was going to say the same thing about the source before I read it, but I thought the author did a good job of presenting more facts than opinion. Could've done without a couple of the snarky comments though. I'm sure most of the industry reps thought the same thing when they saw the interview request, so I can't blame them all for denying it.

I think the obvious thing to do is map out all the faults and try and place injection wells in areas with a low chance of activating any dormant faults. I know that's easier said than done though.

An interesting point at the end of that was that maybe these small tremors are a good thing and they're preventing enough energy from building up and causing a major quake. I had never thought about that, but the reasoning sounds logical. I'm not trying to say that condones the current quakes, but that is an interesting point nonetheless.

Is it not possible the fracturing creates new faults? Or extends pre-existing faults? Then the disposal wells decrease the friction holding the two plates in place permitting more slippage. I'm not a geologist but this seems to make sense from a layman viewpoint.

I don't think we will ever get an honest assessment from any in state entity. It will take someone with enormous resources from out of state to perform an objective analysis - if you can find an objective party to do so.

Oklahoma Geological Survey is shaking things up amid rash of quakes | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-geological-survey-is-shaking-things-up-amid-rash-of-quakes/article/3934987)


The geological survey recently installed additional seismographs throughout the state, including one near Guthrie. The equipment helped determine the most recent quakes have occurred along a different fault from previous quakes, including those near Jones and east of Edmond.

“This fault is one likely to have naturally occurring earthquakes on it,” Holland said.

There were no active hydraulic fracturing activities in the area, but the survey is studying whether water injection wells could have contributed to the most recent and other quakes throughout the state, Holland said.

“We’re still looking at that as a possibility, but we’re waiting for data,” he said. “Those determinations can take a very long time to complete.”

This says it all...

“Those determinations can take a very long time to complete.”

We'll never get a real answer. At this point that might as well just say... "the plate is starting to buckle here, we are possibly seeing the early stages of a new mountain range develop" or " we could also be seeing magma start to move up in the area and change the make up of the ground under us."

Okay, so the last one might be a stretch. :)

This says it all...

“Those determinations can take a very long time to complete.”

We'll never get a real answer. At this point that might as well just say... "the plate is starting to buckle here, we are possibly seeing the early stages of a new mountain range develop" or " we could also be seeing magma start to move up in the area and change the make up of the ground under us."

Okay, so the last one might be a stretch. :)

This is obviously OKC's future. :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOXv8FWnNAk

Is it not possible the fracturing creates new faults? Or extends pre-existing faults? Then the disposal wells decrease the friction holding the two plates in place permitting more slippage. I'm not a geologist but this seems to make sense from a layman viewpoint.

I don't think we will ever get an honest assessment from any in state entity. It will take someone with enormous resources from out of state to perform an objective analysis - if you can find an objective party to do so.

The fracturing process itself does create a fracture network, but it is very small and it nothing like the kind of fracture plane that would cause seismic activity. At least based on my knowledge. There have been a lot of tracer studies done trying to figure out the exact type of fracture network that is formed and how far out an individual fracture can go and so far there has been nothing negative found.

The type of fracture that would be needed to cause a seismic event would have to be a large fracture that cuts across multiple bedding planes. Fracture networks caused from hydraulic fracturing are almost always confined to a single rock layer. It takes a lot of energy to break from one layer into another, and by the time the fracture reaches the next rock bed it usually doesn't have the force left to do that. There are rare instances when it will catch a natural plane of weakness and extend into the layer above or below the target zone, but that small fracture is nothing like the type of fault that would cause seismic activity.

I was watching one of the cable news channels and it had a story on OK and all the earthquakes recently. They are also having them down here, surprisingly in the same areas fracking is going on. They also talked about how around the DFW airport they were having several small earthquakes and there was fracking happening on airport property and when they stopped it the quakes stopped as well.

Like I made note of above, if it was the fracturing process itself that was causing seismic activity (creating and lubricating it's own faults) then you would expect to see an unprecedented amount of seismic activity in North Dakota, South and West Texas, and NE Pennsylvania. There's very little to no seismic activity in those areas, so the obvious suspect is disposal wells near major faults that are already present. I know I'm not going to change anyone's opinion, and I'm not trying to, but since I saw fracturing and injection wells come up I just thought I'd put out some information from my perspective that others may not know.

I'll leave it at that so I don't steer this off topic.

"the plate is starting to buckle here, we are possibly seeing the early stages of a new mountain range develop" or " we could also be seeing magma start to move up in the area and change the make up of the ground under us."


Still waiting on Mt. Boomer even if it's just a stretch!

A timelapse of Oklahoma earthquakes | News OK (http://newsok.com/watch-a-timelapse-of-every-oklahoma-earthquake-since-2004/article/3934892)

Thanks for the info PWitty. I think people often mix terminology between fracture wells and injection disposal wells. Until recently I didn't really understand the difference.

If the disposal wells can be proven to be the initiating factor, wonder what the alternative will be. I assume that disposal method was chosen because it is less expensive than other mitigation techniques. Could be a growth industry if someone were to take the plunge and develop a facility to clean and recycle those fluids.

And IF disposal wells are the reason we have had the sharp increase in seismic activity, it must be stopped regardless of the cost. O&G companies' rights end at the surface and they should be held liable for any effect their subsurface activities have on the surface. It is not ethical for the industry to do otherwise.

Like I made note of above, if it was the fracturing process itself that was causing seismic activity (creating and lubricating it's own faults) then you would expect to see an unprecedented amount of seismic activity in North Dakota, South and West Texas, and NE Pennsylvania. There's very little to no seismic activity in those areas, so the obvious suspect is disposal wells near major faults that are already present. I know I'm not going to change anyone's opinion, and I'm not trying to, but since I saw fracturing and injection wells come up I just thought I'd put out some information from my perspective that others may not know.

I'll leave it at that so I don't steer this off topic.

Education is a great thing! Thanks for adding your knowledge here!!! I appreciate it.

Could be a growth industry if someone were to take the plunge and develop a facility to clean and recycle those fluids.A couple of years ago, one of the energy sponsors of Thunder game broadcasts -- I think it was Devon -- featured a number of sand-painting commercials, and one of them described some process they had developed that apparently permitted re-use of injection fluid, although they never went into detail about it. Can anyone tell us if this is in any way related? If it is, they might be onto something that could make servicing even bigger than production or exploration for them...

A timelapse of Oklahoma earthquakes | News OK (http://newsok.com/watch-a-timelapse-of-every-oklahoma-earthquake-since-2004/article/3934892)
That looks familiar... just a few posts above (#102)...

Brief earthquake was heard and felt in Stillwater at around 9:11 pm. I'm glad it only lasted a second. It might be stronger than the 2.9M I slept through this morning.

EDIT:
It registered 3.1, three miles ssw of Stillwater. The one this morning was 2.9.

OUR VIEW: State needs quake task force » Opinion » Stillwater NewsPress (http://www.stwnewspress.com/opinion/x2039931993/OUR-VIEW-State-needs-quake-task-force)

YIKES!!! Another quake just hit Stillwater. It might be even stronger than the last one!

EDIT:
Nope, not stronger, a 3.0M. It might have been directly under Stillwater. http://folkworm.ceri.memphis.edu/recenteqs/Quakes/quakes0.html