From News9 (http://www.news9.com/story/24277891/passenger-rail-set-to-connect-okc-tulsa)
There's a new passenger rail service connecting the Oklahoma City metro
and Tulsa. The "Eastern Flyer" is presented by Iowa Pacific and Stillwater
Central Railroad and it will run between Midwest City and Sapulpa.

The first trip is slated for February 9, followed by additional trips on Feb.
15 and 23, 2014. Train departures from Sapulpa are at 8 a.m., returning
to Sapulpa at 6:30 p.m. Packages and fares start at $70 per adult and
$64 per child.

Passengers arriving in OKC will have the option of boarding motorcoaches
from the train stop to Bricktown, the National Cowboy & Western Heritage
Museum or, on selected dates, a Thunder game.

Seems expensive to me. You can drive there for probably 15 bucks.

So it is only going to make 1 trip per week? At $70 it seems a bit steep but anyone using the service will be staying at least week so that isn't bad I guess. It's cheaper than renting a car for that length of time and once you are in downtown OKC everything is walkable and there is TimeCar if you do need to drive. Plus, if you figure 20 mpg it would cost about $32 to drive your own car round trip. I wonder if the $70 is a round trip ticket.

This would probably have been better in the Transportation thread.

So this will only run for several days in February? And not offer direct service between the two city centers?

This seems set up to fail...two destinations that aren't at the top of people's lists and not near other forms of transit or even car rental places. It's also quite expensive...you can amtrak from Norman to FT Worth for cheaper.

This seems set up to fail...two destinations that aren't at the top of people's lists and not near other forms of transit or even car rental places. It's also quite expensive...you can amtrak from Norman to FT Worth for cheaper.

Plus there are buses every day both ways that take less time to go between the OKC's & Tulsa's bus terminals for a little over twenty dollers

Yeah, Greyhound has this one beat. I can Greyhound to Tulsa for $15, several times a day. Every day.
Which is what makes many of these types of trains cost prohibitive and not a good investment for the tax payers.
There are too many other places where the same money could be put to far better use.

I know of attorneys who take Greyhound to Tulsa and back all the time.

Which is what makes many of these types of trains cost prohibitive and not a good investment for the tax payers.
There are too many other places where the same money could be put to far better use.

I know of attorneys who take Greyhound to Tulsa and back all the time.

Of course it's a bad investment if it's already set up to fail. Under the right parameters and conditions, it's a great investment.

Of course it's a bad investment if it's already set up to fail. Under the right parameters and conditions, it's a great investment.

Just a novelty. One day I hope to see a real speed train running through the countryside in OK and points beyond.

Where in Midwest City would this thing stop at? Not seeing it in the article...

Where in Midwest City would this thing stop at? Not seeing it in the article...

That is a good question, the only places in Midwest City the line that runs to Tulsa are between 36th-ish and Sooner road but do not look particularly great for a stop.

That is a good question, the only places in Midwest City the line that runs
to Tulsa are between 36th-ish and Sooner road but do not look particularly
great for a stop.
Apparently there are going to be motor coaches that will take passengers
to Bricktown and a few other stops? Maybe Mass Trans is supposed to
take off where others leave off.

Apparently there are going to be motor coaches that will take passengers
to Bricktown and a few other stops? Maybe Mass Trans is supposed to
take off where others leave off.

Still though that line goes strait into deep deuce, I can see some reasons why they might not go to the existing terminal. There is not a turn directly into it, they would have to go through the slow process of turning the opposite way, stopping then backing up. Plus since that last segment was sold they have to get permission from one of the rail companies instead of the state, I think it is Union Pacific but not 100% on that; probably why it is stopping in Sapulpa too, I do not remember who owns it but if I remember correctly from the study on having a line earlier, from Sapulpa to Tulsa is owned by one of the major companies.

I don't think Tulsa's transit system has any lines running to Sapulpa

This seems set up to fail...two destinations that aren't at the top of people's lists and not near other forms of transit or even car rental places. It's also quite expensive...you can amtrak from Norman to FT Worth for cheaper.

On the flip side, it might be an opportunity for some eager Uber drivers to step up and basically own a new niche.

That is a good question, the only places in Midwest City the line that runs to Tulsa are between 36th-ish and Sooner road but do not look particularly great for a stop.

I've been wondering that myself. That lines splits off east of downtown and one leg runs northeastrly, through Spencer, Jones, Luther, Welston, etc .. on up to Tulsa.

The ofher line runs through Midwest City and Choctaw before turninig southeasterly through Harrah, Mcloud and Shawnee... Which doesn' make much sense.

The ofher line runs through Midwest City and Choctaw before turninig southeasterly through Harrah, Mcloud and Shawnee... Which doesn' make much sense.

It is a bit hard trying to figure out why some of the rail things were done they way they are, that one looks like they were going for an easier spot to cross the river on the way to Shawnee, some of the time enough of various rail lines have been torn up or converted to highways it is hard to tell what the original network actually looked like and another problem with some of our long distance railroads was they were subsidized by the government by how many miles of track were laded down so less than efficient routes made more money for the builder. It looks like it originally continued to Wewoka, Holdenville, then it gets harder to guess the old path around Atoka but probably went generally southeast to somewhere in texas

It is a bit hard trying to figure out why some of the rail things were done they way they are, that one looks like they were going for an easier spot to cross the river on the way to Shawnee, some of the time enough of various rail lines have been torn up or converted to highways it is hard to tell what the original network actually looked like and another problem with some of our long distance railroads was they were subsidized by the government by how many miles of track were laded down so less than efficient routes made more money for the builder. It looks like it originally continued to Wewoka, Holdenville, then it gets harder to guess the old path around Atoka but probably went generally southeast to somewhere in texas

Sorry, I meant it doesn't make much sense as far as a passenger service to Tulsa. I understand their original routes as both are the old Frisco lines ..one northeast and one southeast.

With some many new people on OKCTalk I though I should post this again. The State needs to look at the big picture and try to build this, even if it is one piece at a time.

https://sites.google.com/site/okcrail/

Here is the State Railroad Map with who owns what. This version is a few years old and some ownership has changed.

http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/hqdiv/p-r-div/maps/railroad/2009/pdfs/rail-cover.pdf

With some many new people on OKCTalk I though I should post this again. The State needs to look at the big picture and try to build this, even if it is one piece at a time.

https://sites.google.com/site/okcrail/

Here is the State Railroad Map with who owns what. This version is a few years old and some ownership has changed.

http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/hqdiv/p-r-div/maps/railroad/2009/pdfs/rail-cover.pdf


It would be great. And most of the right of way is already in place.

So does anyone explain why exactly this doesn't actually go to the Depot in Tulsa and the Santa Fe station. I guess it's a start but this is kind of stupid.

Unless I misunderstand which rail is being used (very possible) I don't think the (functional) connectivity exists for it to go to Santa Fe Depot. Also if it does exist, doesn't the line ownership change on approach to the depot? Very unclear on this myself...

It would be great. And most of the right of way is already in place.

All the right of way is in place. In some places the track is gone, but the right of way is still there.

So does anyone explain why exactly this doesn't actually go to the Depot in Tulsa and the Santa Fe station. I guess it's a start but this is kind of stupid.

I think it is only using the track owned by the state so there are no agreements required with any other railroads. My guess is that they are negotiating the missing ends but the you have to start rolling down the track at some point. I guess the good news is that it means the track owned by the state is now passenger-ready.

https://sites.google.com/site/okcrail/

Since good roads would still be needed in all areas 90% of this^ is a sure path to state bankruptcy or at the very least a massive diversion of money from things that would do our states residents far more good in other areas.

I agree with others that this is a great idea and a robust start; but it needs connectivity into downtown OKC in order to be viable for the long run. It is a great niche though and I do hope it is successful and perhaps other routes could be set up for Wichita/Enid to OKC since there is a significant OKC Thunder base there; and maybe Lawton/Wichita Falls into OKC.

I am excited the state has another transportation option and the Tulsa area can have rail service even if it is a tourist rail for the moment. Gotta start somewhere and I do hope Tulsans use it (and OKC folks going up there for concerts).

I think it is only using the track owned by the state so there are no agreements required with any other railroads. My guess is that they are negotiating the missing ends but the you have to start rolling down the track at some point. I guess the good news is that it means the track owned by the state is now passenger-ready.

Yes, this is what a few that seemed in the know have said in the comments on the news6 article. If they can work out a deal with BNSF to go from Tulsa union station to the SantaFe this might be a good trial run for daily service.

Website is available on this: https://www.easternflyer.com/

It looks like the point of this train is not connectivity between our two largest cities but more like a way to get people to Oklahoma City for various attractions.

It looks like the point of this train is not connectivity between our two largest cities but more like a way to get people to Oklahoma City for various attractions.

That's what I'm taking from it. So I'm not really sure how good of a measure this would be on the ability to establish scheduled rail service. I more or less consider this closer to a charter trip to Laughlin or Tunica that is once a month.

That's what I'm taking from it. So I'm not really sure how good of a measure this would be on the ability to establish scheduled rail service. I more or less consider this closer to a charter trip to Laughlin or Tunica that is once a month.

It's a start I guess.

Is the primary function to move people from A to B, or to provide a brief day on the train experience, and if folks wish to make more of it, that is a mere happy coincidence to the excursion experience? Seems more the latter to me at the present, but I haven't put a lot of time into the matter.

That's right JTF. Going to Santa Fe Station involves crossing the Union Pacific main line, their yard, and the segment in Bricktown. There is no way they are going to give permission for that without better separation and a Positive Train Control System. Regarding Tulsa, I've forgotten the inner city connectivity details.

This seems like a grand attempt to get something going on that line to try to dissuade Mary Fallin from authorizing the sale of this line to BNSF. BNSF is one of her most significant donors and is lobbying the state hard for ODOT to sell it to them so that they can haul oil at a premium out of Cushing.

There are some rail advocates who see this line as critical right-of-way to connect the two cities together. They want to see the state retain ownership and preserve the alignment.

That's right JTF. Going to Santa Fe Station involves crossing the Union Pacific main line, their yard, and the segment in Bricktown. There is no way they are going to give permission for that without better separation and a Positive Train Control System. Regarding Tulsa, I've forgotten the inner city connectivity details.

This seems like a grand attempt to get something going on that line to try to dissuade Mary Fallin from authorizing the sale of this line to BNSF. BNSF is one of her most significant donors and is lobbying the state hard for ODOT to sell it to them so that they can haul oil at a premium out of Cushing.

There are some rail advocates who see this line as critical right-of-way to connect the two cities together. They want to see the state retain ownership and preserve the alignment.

Do you think they will eventually be able to extend it all the way to the SantaFe? It obviously seems like that will be key to getting daily service.

As part of this current plan, I doubt it. That is unless there are some monetary bargaining chips between WATCO (the lease holder for the excursion train line being promoted) and the UP.

Long term, anything is possible.

Oklahoma Passenger Rail Hitting The Tracks In Style - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/24324229/passenger-rail)

There was also a video about this on the 10PM newscast which should eventually be posted.

"Iowa Pacific's goal is eventually to operate out of both Oklahoma City and Tulsa with eight round trips per day."

Oklahoma Passenger Rail Hitting The Tracks In Style - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/24324229/passenger-rail)

There was also a video about this on the 10PM newscast which should eventually be posted.

Here's a link to their web site.
https://www.easternflyer.com/index.html

The news footage just showed photos of other excursion trains from around he country. And neither the website, nor the news story explained where the train would tie up in Midwest City.

Here's a link to their web site.
https://www.easternflyer.com/index.html

The news footage just showed photos of other excursion trains from around he country. And neither the website, nor the news story explained where the train would tie up in Midwest City.

venture had previously posted the website link in post number 29, which is why I didn't.

venture had previously posted the website link in post number 29, which is why I didn't.

I missed that .. Thanks for the update

"Iowa Pacific's goal is eventually to operate out of both Oklahoma City and Tulsa with eight round trips per day."

The video is now available from my original post and it is mentioned that they hope to eventually operate from both the downtown area of both cities.

This is, well, interesting. Really curious to see how they'll do. At around 110 miles (give or take), they've blocked 3:20 for the trip each way, which leads to an average speed of ... 33 mph. $349 r/t to catch a Thunder game in Diamond class? I'm sure some people in Tulsa have this kind of money to burn, but still...

High Speed Rail ONLY please. We don't need any Heavy Desiel Engines trains running up and down a track any more.

I'm sure HSR will come eventually, but right now we need to focus on what is feasible at the moment.

Just out of curiosity, if serious negations were held today, how long would it be before construction started on a Tulsa-OKC-(maybe even Dallas) HSR link? I'm sure there is a lot of politics involved and it obviously wouldn't be decided on over night.

don't think overnight.
don't think years.
possibly ok to think decades.

High Speed Rail ONLY please. We don't need any Heavy Desiel Engines trains running up and down a track any more.

Yeah if we get frequent desiel powered trips...I'll take those now...

I'm sure HSR will come eventually, but right now we need to focus on what is feasible at the moment.

Just out of curiosity, if serious negations were held today, how long would it be before construction started on a Tulsa-OKC-(maybe even Dallas) HSR link? I'm sure there is a lot of politics involved and it obviously wouldn't be decided on over night.

So you are saying we should continue to go down the "same old worn out path of mediocrity"??? Why? Of course we have to manage today's business, Oklahoma needs to ( Get Up to Speed ) in so many ways.

Yeah if we get frequent desiel powered trips...I'll take those now...

You can today, just take the one that gets to DFW.... in 4.0 hrs. This is NOT the solution. ...just another dog w/ fleas.

HSR only please.

You can today, just take the one that gets to DFW.... in 4.0 hrs. This is NOT the solution. ...just another dog w/ fleas.

HSR only please.

No it is a solution, especially in the near term and I have used the train to Fort Worth for business purposes several times when a last minute flight was too costly. Last minute flight = $450 round trip, train = $56. Generally when I go to the DFW area, I spend more then a day there so it all works out fine. I live near downtown. If you figure drive time to Will Rogers - 20 to 30 minutes, getting there at least an hour before your flight, an hour minimum gate to gate flight time, 30 to 40 minutes to get your bags and rent a car and if I needed to go to Fort Worth anyway, about 30-45 minutes to drive from love field to Fort Worth. That ends up being at least 3.5 hours. Driving generally takes about 3 give or take, but that's 3 hours spent driving, not working and it's another 400 miles minimum on my car. So when looking at it that way, a door to door four hours isn't that big of deal.

I also make several business trips to Tulsa every month... So assuming I don't want to put miles on my car or drive in general every time I go, what good does a train to Fort Worth do for me for when I need to go to Tulsa...what a stupid statement. Forget the private company that wants to make 8 daily trips between OKC and Tulsa.. I guess I can just wait 3 decades for high speed rail service, that makes more sense.

You can today, just take the one that gets to DFW.... in 4.0 hrs. This is NOT the solution. ...just another dog w/ fleas.

HSR only please.

I've said it before and I'll say it again to you...come up with the financing.

High Speed Rail ONLY please. We don't need any Heavy Desiel Engines trains running up and down a track any more.

I can imagine the same conversation taking place back in the 1930's. Efficient Diesel Locomotives ONLY please. We don't need any Heavy Steam Engine trains running up and down the track anymore.


I've been a rail enthusiast ever since I was a kid, and I've long thought that we are far behind Europe and Asia in regards to passenger rail travel.

No it is a solution, especially in the near term and I have used the train to Fort Worth for business purposes several times when a last minute flight was too costly. Last minute flight = $450 round trip, train = $56. Generally when I go to the DFW area, I spend more then a day there so it all works out fine. I live near downtown. If you figure drive time to Will Rogers - 20 to 30 minutes, getting there at least an hour before your flight, an hour minimum gate to gate flight time, 30 to 40 minutes to get your bags and rent a car and if I needed to go to Fort Worth anyway, about 30-45 minutes to drive from love field to Fort Worth. That ends up being at least 3.5 hours. Driving generally takes about 3 give or take, but that's 3 hours spent driving, not working and it's another 400 miles minimum on my car. So when looking at it that way, a door to door four hours isn't that big of deal.

I also make several business trips to Tulsa every month... So assuming I don't want to put miles on my car or drive in general every time I go, what good does a train to Fort Worth do for me for when I need to go to Tulsa...what a stupid statement. Forget the private company that wants to make 8 daily trips between OKC and Tulsa.. I guess I can just wait 3 decades for high speed rail service, that makes more sense.

Today is 2013, and what has AMTRAK brought to the table of OKC for the past 30 years? ... a single trip to DFW that takes 4 hours? ...This has not helped commerce at all. And you are asking me / others to put our future in this? ...why? ( this is a great business model for AMTRAK ) but does nothing for commerce to OKC.

We should be the leader in HSR and not wait the 3 decades others would want you to think. Who do you think does not want HSR? ( Airlines & Airports / BNSF & AMTRAK & train industries ) and none of these industres really care about OKC's future.

Or, we can wait in line behind Dallas / KC / others just like the orphan in 'Oliver, ...with our bowl in hand, "more please." I sure hope in the year 2043 Amtrak can get me to Dallas in 3 hours.....? Really?

Problem with Amtrak is that when they enter Texas the fastest they can go is 55 mph. I wish there was a train that left an hour or two earlier that was an express type with no stops. Id use it a lot more if they did that. Problem is if you aren't on the east coast you aren't getting anywhere fast on Amtrak, which is unfortunate

Problem with Amtrak is that when they enter Texas the fastest they can go is 55 mph. I wish there was a train that left an hour or two earlier that was an express type with no stops. Id use it a lot more if they did that. Problem is if you aren't on the east coast you aren't getting anywhere fast on Amtrak, which is unfortunate

It really isn't Amtrak's fault as much as it is the track restrictions and the priority freight services receives. It's obviously not ideal, but it is much better than nothing.

It really isn't Amtrak's fault as much as it is the track restrictions and the priority freight services receives. It's obviously not ideal, but it is much better than nothing.

Like I said, another dog w/ different fleas. It is NOT the solution.

"better than nothing", .... NO, I have a car and i'm not affraid of using it. ... HSR. It is THE solution.

Amtrak doesn't own the tracks it rides on. They are dependent on the freight network. We cannot blame them for a thing. If a private entity built an HSR-capable rail line between OKC and Dallas tomorrow, next week we'd probably see Amtrak advertising forthcoming high speed service between those cities (sure the city, state, or feds might have to chip in to fund new equipment).

Amtrak doesn't own the tracks it rides on. They are dependent on the freight network. We cannot blame them for a thing. If a private entity built an HSR-capable rail line between OKC and Dallas tomorrow, next week we'd probably see Amtrak advertising forthcoming high speed service between those cities (sure the city, state, or feds might have to chip in to fund new equipment).

...and the airlines don't own the airports. Delta sure wants you to use their service and go through Atlanta when doing so. Southwest doesnt own Love Field, but it wants you to use this Dallas location. Industry leaders lead the industry in others ways too.

Today is 2013, and what has AMTRAK brought to the table of OKC for the past 30 years? ... a single trip to DFW that takes 4 hours? ...This has not helped commerce at all. And you are asking me / others to put our future in this? ...why? ( this is a great business model for AMTRAK ) but does nothing for commerce to OKC.

We should be the leader in HSR and not wait the 3 decades others would want you to think. Who do you think does not want HSR? ( Airlines & Airports / BNSF & AMTRAK & train industries ) and none of these industres really care about OKC's future.

Or, we can wait in line behind Dallas / KC / others just like the orphan in 'Oliver, ...with our bowl in hand, "more please." I sure hope in the year 2043 Amtrak can get me to Dallas in 3 hours.....? Really?

And in a little over a day it will be 2014. No one is asking YOU to put YOUR future into anything. Unless some deep pocketed investor steps up...WE ARE NOT GETTING HIGH-SPEED RAIL BEFORE THE EAST AND WEST COAST, get that through your head. I think everyone would be cool with high-speed rail until they see the cost which, at least right now, hurts the feasibility of it especially in this part of the country. So your suggestion is just to not have rail travel (Even if it is privately funded at no cost to anyone other than those that ride it), until 3 decades from now when true high-speed rail happens (Maybe). That makes a lot more sense...

And in a little over a day it will be 2014. No one is asking YOU to put YOUR future into anything. Unless some deep pocketed investor steps up...WE ARE NOT GETTING HIGH-SPEED RAIL BEFORE THE EAST AND WEST COAST, get that through your head. I think everyone would be cool with high-speed rail until they see the cost which, at least right now, hurts the feasibility of it especially in this part of the country. So your suggestion is just to not have rail travel (Even if it is privately funded at no cost to anyone other than those that ride it), until 3 decades from now when true high-speed rail happens (Maybe). That makes a lot more sense...

Yeah it makes no sense to just not do anything until you get the gold standard. The culture here is to either drive or fly. It is going to take some time to get people to accept rail here. The most likely area to build out HSR first is from Chicago on lines to Detroit, Toledo, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Des Moines, and Minneapolis. Then move to the Boston-New York-Washington-Florida corridor and tie it also into the Midwest network.

...and the airlines don't own the airports. Delta sure wants you to use their service and go through Atlanta when doing so. Southwest doesnt own Love Field, but it wants you to use this Dallas location. Industry leaders lead the industry in others ways too.

So your proposal is what? You want UP and BNSF, et al to build HSR-capable lines between major cities? Me too! Problem is they have shareholders and bottom lines to consider. As much as we all like to believe in the nobility of industry leaders, if it doesn't make business sense ALSO, they won't lead us anywhere. My point is we have to first show user demand. That's on us, the potential riders. If Amtrak and its slow service is teaming with use and those users are clamoring for HSR (by writing letters to their city, county, state, and federal leaders), to the extent that Amtrak can take those ridership numbers to the freight line operators and show the business case for higher speed rail (in addition to the political pressure from all those letters), THEN we'd see this rail developed (maybe).