dude, you should really just stop and accept the fact that Venture is owning you on every level. Just say ok I was wrong and acknowledge you just want a nationwide hsr. There is nothing wrong with wanting that; but attacking the airlines to try and make a point for building the hsr is not a good strategy and will likely cause you to loose all credibility.

I stand by my statements regarding OKC and the "pull back" in value we continue to receive as a customer. OKC is the flyover market to the airlines, and always will be. That is THE bottom line.

HSR will be our next ticket in better value for mass transit here in the OKC market.

I stand by my statements regarding OKC and the "pull back" in value we continue to receive as a customer. OKC is the flyover market to the airlines, and always will be. That is THE bottom line.

HSR will be our next ticket in better value for mass transit here in the OKC market.

What cities do you see HSR lines going from OKC to provide service? Nonstop only markets to keep it simple initially.

I stand by my statements regarding OKC and the "pull back" in value we continue to receive as a customer. OKC is the flyover market to the airlines, and always will be. That is THE bottom line.

HSR will be our next ticket in better value for mass transit here in the OKC market.

Most of the cities airline hubs are in are still considered a flyover market to a lot of people on the coasts, being a rollover market is not going to change many people's minds

Interesting development on the OKC - Tulsa rail line. ODOT has claimed (and most everyone else assumed they were being truthful) that any passenger service operating on the state owned/Stillwater Central RR operated line would have to terminate in Sapulpa. I just saw a press release from the Tulsa City Council that clearly shows the sale contract of the line from BNSF to the state of Oklahoma requires BNSF to permit up to four passenger trains per day over the BNSF right of way between Sapulpa and Tulsa Union Station. This makes passenger rail service much more feasible - the remaining right of way issue is getting to the Santa Fe intermodal hub in OKC now. ODOT is an utterly worthless organization in dire need of housecleaning especially at the top.


https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1511253_10151906493963155_1221959709_n.jpg

So I am struggling to find any other conclusion other than that ODOT is simply lying when it comes to this. Perhaps they didn't realize they could go all the way to Tulsa?

I feel for Tulsa because this must be especially aggravating.

Sapulpa-to-Oklahoma City Train Trips Sold Out - The Oklahoman (http://newsok.com/sapulpa-to-oklahoma-city-train-trips-sold-out/article/3922981)

It is refreshing to see someone at the Oklahoman get the facts straight on this subject.

It is refreshing to see someone at the Oklahoman get the facts straight on this subject.

It's damned depressing that our state is going to sell off the rail line that could be used and has an operator interested in making it happen. Our state leadership is beyond stupid and I won't even start on ODOT. I don't think that kind of language is allowed here.

Sapulpa-to-Oklahoma City Train Trips Sold Out - The Oklahoman (http://newsok.com/sapulpa-to-oklahoma-city-train-trips-sold-out/article/3922981)

Same article on post #231.

If the state sold off the rail line,,,,, but as part of the sale the contract read that the state or a third party could operate an unlimited amount of passenger service from the Tulsa area, via OKC to Norman.
Part of the contract might read the rail line would be upgraded with financial help of the state (including a reduction in sharp curves) but maintained by the rail company to 79 MPH or faster service. The contract could say passengers trains would receive top priority at all times.

How is that^ not a good deal for all?

I have no idea how much it would cost the state for rail line upgrades but I suspect it would be millions of dollars cheaper for the state to transport the few hundred daily passengers by bus with schedule that would be far more convenient and for a much larger number of passengers.

Because there isn't a reliable way to ensure that the stage can always use a ROW it no longer owns. As old as you are, you seem very naive in your total and complete trust of the so called private sector.

Because there isn't a reliable way to ensure that the stage can always use a ROW it no longer owns. As old as you are, you seem very naive in your total and complete trust of the so called private sector.

Ask about 300,000 people in West Virginia how much they trust the private sector....... but ODOT has never been honest about anything passenger rail related. For as long as I have been involved in these discussions everyone has said any passenger service had to terminate at Sapulpa unless BNSF granted trackage right to Tulsa Union Station. Then a couple days ago I find out that language was in the original sale contract of the line!

Same article on post #231.

Not quite...same subject...different newspaper...different article.

Not quite...same subject...different newspaper...different article.

Well either way same story lol. Point being we don't need 12 different article links on the same news. Research lad...

Well either way same story lol. Point being we don't need 12 different article links on the same news. Research lad...

Unfortunately people don't do research or read news sites unless there is a link. This is an extremely important subject to the states future, and the word needs to get our as much as possible.

Eastern Flyer train from Sapulpa to Oklahoma City sells out all three trips - Tulsa World: Transportation (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/transportation/eastern-flyer-train-from-sapulpa-to-oklahoma-city-sells-out/article_9948617a-794d-11e3-b906-001a4bcf6878.html)


Sapulpa-to-Oklahoma City Train Trips Sold Out - The Oklahoman (http://newsok.com/sapulpa-to-oklahoma-city-train-trips-sold-out/article/3922981)

There, now we can continue bumping these links since they can't be thumbtacked to the top of every page.

Well either way same story lol. Point being we don't need 12 different article links on the same news. Research lad...

Excuse me? The big story here isn't that the train trips are sold out...although that is great news for those of us who support rail transit. I posted the Oklahoman article because (1) up until its publication, the only mention of the issue from the Oklahoman was a less-than-glowing editorial about the train excursions and passenger rail in general and (2) the Oklahoman article went into details about continuing efforts by ODOT to sell the state-owned line. I work on these issues on a daily basis, and whether you realize it or not, these type of editorials and articles in the Oklahoman have an influence on local political processes and public opinion with regard to the rail transit efforts that are underway in Oklahoma City, and its important for those who support those efforts to be aware of how the local press is presenting the information. Political awareness lad...

Ask about 300,000 people in West Virginia how much they trust the private sector....... but ODOT has never been honest about anything passenger rail related. For as long as I have been involved in these discussions everyone has said any passenger service had to terminate at Sapulpa unless BNSF granted trackage right to Tulsa Union Station. Then a couple days ago I find out that language was in the original sale contract of the line!

When was the original sale contract drafted? Before or after ODOT said service had to end at Sapulpa?

I am just scratching my head here because surely a state agency wouldn't lie so blatantly. There has to be something more here, besides (of course) an argument for why passenger rail is "impractical." Anything substantive?

ODOT Plans To Sell Railway Between OKC, Tulsa - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/24449258/odot-plans-to-sell-railway-between-okc-tulsa)

Bidding starts on Jan. 30th.

Maybe this is a blessing in disguise. If people see there is a need for passenger rail service, why would it be too ambitious for Oklahoma to fund its own HSR route between Tulsa and OKC? After that is done, then talk can start between Wichita and Dallas. As long as we can get our HSR route to Dallas we will be fine and Texas can worry about their own routes to Houston, Austin, SA etc. I really think if Oklahoma wanted to, we could have HSR between OKC-Tulsa nearly or at least halfway done by 2020 with it completely finished by 2022.

There is no reason we couldn't. We'd be the first in the country I believe as California won't have theirs set-up until the mid 2030's.It'd be relatively cheap compared to Cali's as we have flat land. Oklahoma is experiencing an oil boom and our economy is getting better every day with its main city becoming a boom town, I mean why the hell can Oklahoma not do something really nice for once? I honestly think this could be done. Put away this commuter rail between OKC and Tulsa and do something cool and be known as the first state in the nation to have an established HSR rail corridor.

Again, Phase 1 would only be between OKC and Tulsa.

^ no there is nothing good to come of that line being sold. Indirectly or directly. We must stop ODOT from selling it. I am afraid Councilman White is correct, it may be too late.

We must stop ODOT from selling it. I am afraid Councilman White is correct, it may be too late.

Not really possible. Now if folks were to pool their money to buy it then good. Otherwise if ODOT is selling the line at a profit I say SELL IT!!!

Not really possible. Now if folks were to pool their money to buy it then good. Otherwise if ODOT is selling the line at a profit I say SELL IT!!!

I doubt ODOT even knows the meaning of the word

Not really possible. Now if folks were to pool their money to buy it then good. Otherwise if ODOT is selling the line at a profit I say SELL IT!!!

Hmm, then should ODOT sell the highways to a private company as well? I mean...they would earn money off of it. The subsequent tolls for profit are also good, yes?

Selling something for a short gain today in-spite of a bigger gain down the road is just stupid.

^ no there is nothing good to come of that line being sold. Indirectly or directly. We must stop ODOT from selling it. I am afraid Councilman White is correct, it may be too late.Well that sucks then. Oklahoma really needs to have a rail division separated from ODOT.

Well that sucks then. Oklahoma really needs to have a rail division separated from ODOT.

That legislation was also delayed.... state Senator chickened out because of veto threat from governor even though there were enough votes to override. So that legislation and another bill that would have given right of first refusal to Watco is stuck in the limbo of committee. But if Oklahoma continues to vote for the Fallins and Tea Partiers, we will get what we deserve.

Hmm, then should ODOT sell the highways to a private company as well? I mean...they would earn money off of it. The subsequent tolls for profit are also good, yes?

Selling something for a short gain today in-spite of a bigger gain down the road is just stupid.

Agreed. But there is NO gain that can be measured by ODOT keeping the rail line. RR's are interested in profits not nostalgic passenger service. The USA is not like Europe when it comes to passenger rail service. Having seen it first hand the European passenger rail service system would NEVER work in the USA. It is as plain as the nose on a knowledgeable persons face. One of the primary reasons is the concept of private property that is held here in the good ole USA. The Europeans see this concept quite differently.

Agreed. But there is NO gain that can be measured by ODOT keeping the rail line. RR's are interested in profits not nostalgic passenger service. The USA is not like Europe when it comes to passenger rail service. Having seen it first hand the European passenger rail service system would NEVER work in the USA. It is as plain as the nose on a knowledgeable persons face. One of the primary reasons is the concept of private property that is held here in the good ole USA. The Europeans see this concept quite differently.

You just don't seem to grasp that things are changing.

Agreed. But there is NO gain that can be measured by ODOT keeping the rail line. RR's are interested in profits not nostalgic passenger service. The USA is not like Europe when it comes to passenger rail service. Having seen it first hand the European passenger rail service system would NEVER work in the USA. It is as plain as the nose on a knowledgeable persons face. One of the primary reasons is the concept of private property that is held here in the good ole USA. The Europeans see this concept quite differently.

How so? Europe is not a homogenous entity. Nothing more frustrating than those who refuse to look at other places as a source of inspiration just because the idea did not originate in their own world of geographic centrism.

Holman Jenkins: A Private Railroad Is Born - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304549504579320432210673934)

While politicians and citizens spend years haggling about government's role in providing intercity rail service, a private group will do in Florida starting late next year. One excerpt from the story:

Private investors stepped up with a rail vision of their own, aimed at making money rather than spending it.

Their brainchild, All Aboard Florida (the train will get a new name this year), is not designed to push political buttons. It won't go to Tampa. It will zip past several aggrieved towns on Florida's Treasure Coast without stopping.

Nor will the train qualify as "high speed," except on a stretch where it will hit 125 miles an hour. Instead of running on a dedicated line, the new service will mostly share existing track with slower freight trains operated by its sister company, the Florida East Coast Railway.

But the sponsoring companies, all owned by the private-equity outfit Fortress Investment Group, appear to have done their sums. By minimizing stops, the line will be competitive with road and air in connecting the beaches, casinos and resorts of Miami and Fort Lauderdale with the big airport and theme-park destination of Orlando. Capturing a small percentage of the 50 million people who travel between these fleshpots, especially European visitors accustomed to intercity rail at home, would let the train cover its costs and then some.

Holman Jenkins: A Private Railroad Is Born - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304549504579320432210673934)

While politicians and citizens spend years haggling about government's role in providing intercity rail service, a private group will do in Florida starting late next year. One excerpt from the story:

Private investors stepped up with a rail vision of their own, aimed at making money rather than spending it.

Their brainchild, All Aboard Florida (the train will get a new name this year), is not designed to push political buttons. It won't go to Tampa. It will zip past several aggrieved towns on Florida's Treasure Coast without stopping.

Nor will the train qualify as "high speed," except on a stretch where it will hit 125 miles an hour. Instead of running on a dedicated line, the new service will mostly share existing track with slower freight trains operated by its sister company, the Florida East Coast Railway.

But the sponsoring companies, all owned by the private-equity outfit Fortress Investment Group, appear to have done their sums. By minimizing stops, the line will be competitive with road and air in connecting the beaches, casinos and resorts of Miami and Fort Lauderdale with the big airport and theme-park destination of Orlando. Capturing a small percentage of the 50 million people who travel between these fleshpots, especially European visitors accustomed to intercity rail at home, would let the train cover its costs and then some.

Hopefully the start of something great.

Hopefully the start of something great.

Let private industry give this a shot. They'll get it running faster, for less money, with no financial risk to taxpayers, and if the prices are too high/service is too low, people won't use it. They'll continue using cars, busses and airlines.

January 16, 2014

Rep. Richard Morrissette, District 92
2300 N. Lincoln Blvd.
State Capitol – Room 543
Oklahoma City, OK 73105
Contact: Jacklyn Brink-Rosen
(405) 557-7404

INVESTIGATION REVEALS NO STATUTORY MANDATE
TO SELL STATE OWNED RAIL AS WELL AS OTHER REVELATIONS

Morrissette Introduces Sweeping Transportation Legislation
to Protect State Assets and Expand Options for Every Oklahoman


HB2896 – HB2897 – HB2898

(Oklahoma City, Ok) “In session 2012, I passed the State Infrastructure Bank bill, HB2469, to begin offering communities desperate for transportation infrastructure economic development dollars the opportunity to begin work on expansion of those much needed options. Under ODOT’s management, establishing the bank has yet to even be a topic for discussion by the Transportation Commission, much less an item for their monthly agenda…that was 2 years ago! What is ODOT focusing upon? Selling the public access right-of-way from here to Tulsa to limit transportation options!” declared state Rep. Richard Morrissette (D-OKC).

“We spend a fortune on paving contracts only to rank 2nd Worst Roads and Bridges in the nation. There is no funding for sustainable modes of transportation, moving more people in fewer trips. The rail line between OKC and Tulsa is a present and future lifeline to more modern and sustainable travel. However, ODOT persists in its efforts to sell the line.”

“In conducting a full-on investigation into what options Oklahomans might have to stop the sale, first, let’s remember who owns the line. Oklahomans are the owners of the Sooner Sub rail line from here to Tulsa, evidence is overwhelming. The people are in a very strong position to be able to retain their rail line for the re-establishment of passenger service and to keep a Class 1 railroad off the line and to keep and increase non-class 1 freight shipments along the line from OKC to Tulsa, if they continue to oppose efforts to sell this invaluable asset to the highest bidder. The line at present pays for itself and then some via lease payments from a very reliable occupant, the Stillwater Central, and our current non- Class 1 freight shippers are one of Oklahoma’s true small business success stories.”

ODOT claims that it was always the intention of the department to sell the line when they purchased it at a bargain basement price. But, advocates and many in the legislature believe that considering 50 years of evolution to abide by some non-binding notion from the 1970’s ignores all of the contemporary opportunities of the here and now. Morrissette contends that all of the contracts involved are living documents written to grow with a changing transportation environment.

“Oklahoma City and Tulsa are fast becoming true modern cities with all of the transportation challenges that come along with it to include population growth. The state is now ranked 17th fastest in growth in the U.S., ahead of the very progressive state of Oregon. The 2 cities are growing together linked by rail and toll road. Now, ODOT comes forward at the threshold of the mass transportation age with plans to slam the door. The day of the dinosaur is over. The corridor in question is our public access. Would we sell off I-35 to the highest bidder and then just hope to heck the new owner allowed us quality access? No, we wouldn’t do that because that route is vital to connections to southern Oklahoma and points beyond, the loss of which would impact economic development and quality of life. We must move more people in fewer trips and the people want street cars, buses, light commuter and connective passenger rail and all of that requires quality public access that we the people control.”

Morrissette’s office has conducted an extensive investigation into the contractual history of Oklahoma state owned rail assets and in the case of the line between Oklahoma City and Tulsa, a 99 year valid lease, among other compelling documents, has been discovered. Present statute only allows the Oklahoma Department of Transportation the option to sell rail assets if it’s in the best interest of the state; not mandate a sale. And, despite assurances from ODOT that whomever the ultimate buyer passenger rail would have to remain an option, no such mandatory clause exists at the federal or state level.

“I have introduced a bill to create a process by where the infrastructure bank will become capitalized for all NON-HIGHWAY projects, to receive federal funding earmarked for mass trans, rail, buses and marine related projects to be distributed in the form of grants and loans connected to the creation of healthy communities and jobs. Our program is modeled after an Oregon transportation infrastructure effort and shall be known as HB2896 - ConnectOklahoma.”
“
“I have also introduced HB2898, a measure to enable the use of public-private partnerships and a bid process known as design-build in order to attract private transportation infrastructure funding and to see our state be able to take on larger projects.”

“Finally, in order to protect our state owned rail assets from being sold, against the will of Oklahomans, I have introduced HB2897 to require that any sale first be approved by the legislature.”

Those wishing to voice their opposition to the sale of the Oklahoma City-Tulsa state owned rail line may contact the Governor’s office at (405) 521-2342.



Rep. Richard Morrissette
District 92
2300 N. Lincoln Blvd.
ROOM 543 - State Capitol Bldg.
OKC, OK 73105
Office (405) 557-7404 - fax (405) 962-7624
email: richardmorrissette@okhouse.gov

Agreed. But there is NO gain that can be measured by ODOT keeping the rail line. RR's are interested in profits not nostalgic passenger service. The USA is not like Europe when it comes to passenger rail service. Having seen it first hand the European passenger rail service system would NEVER work in the USA. It is as plain as the nose on a knowledgeable persons face. One of the primary reasons is the concept of private property that is held here in the good ole USA. The Europeans see this concept quite differently.

Just because it wasn't done first in the US doesn't mean it will not be successful here. You do realize the interstate highway system was modeled on the Autobahn? In Europe? Maybe not.....

If the true cost of various modes of transportation were actually part of the discussion, I think many people would alter their position. Many really do not realize that all transportation is subsidized to one extent or another.

If anyone wants to go, I am spending Thursday in Tulsa advocating against the sale to the Tulsa Committee and their City Council. A resolution supporting a ptotest is going before their City Council Thursday evening.

If anyone wants to go, I am spending Thursday in Tulsa advocating against the sale to the Tulsa Committee and their City Council. A resolution supporting a ptotest is going before their City Council Thursday evening.

Glad to see the two cities come together to support stopping this mistake. Hopefully they are successful.

Rail between Tulsa and OKC will be successful, if given the chance. I have family in Tulsa, and would love to be able to hop on a train and be up there in a few hours. Do some internet surfing or catch up on work on the way.

Glad to see the two cities come together to support stopping this mistake. Hopefully they are successful.

Rail between Tulsa and OKC will be successful, if given the chance. I have family in Tulsa, and would love to be able to hop on a train and be up there in a few hours. Do some internet surfing or catch up on work on the way.

All it takes is some stakes in the ground for people to start changing their minds. Here in Florida people in towns and cities being bypassed by All Aboard Florida are starting to complain about being left out, when just last year they opposed rail plans in favor of more road building. It is comical to watch.

http://tbo.com/news/business/tampa-wants-all-aboard-florida-rails-to-run-its-way-20131003/


The concern over falling behind with All Aboard Florida has created a sense of urgency among local invitees to a regional transportation summit scheduled Thursday in Tampa.

All it takes is some stakes in the ground for people to start changing their minds. Here in Florida people in towns and cities being bypassed by All Aboard Florida are starting to complain about being left out, when just last year they opposed rail plans in favor of more road building. It is comical to watch.

Tampa wants All Aboard Florida rails to run its way (http://tbo.com/news/business/tampa-wants-all-aboard-florida-rails-to-run-its-way-20131003/)

Same thing happened with DART.

Same thing happened with DART.

Yep and Salt Lake City went through the same thing as well. In fact, there were some communities around SLC that tried to ban the train even going through their town and now they are paying to get a route.

From 2009

Utah Local News - Salt Lake City News, Sports, Archive - The Salt Lake Tribune (http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_13896363)


Allegra and UTA general manager John Inglish knew the Salt Lake Valley needed light rail, but numerous protests and fervent opposition to TRAX persisted right up to the Dec. 4, 1999, opening.

...

Also, more Utahns have hopped aboard the trains: About 500,000 people rode TRAX each month when it first started; monthly ridership now exceeds a million.

Construction is under way to expand the network to 10 times its original reach.

That boom in construction and support for TRAX makes Inglish and Allegra chuckle when they stand at the 1300 South station and remember the day they broke ground at the stop and protesters shouted at them and held signs claiming that "Light rail kills children."


If you want laugh and cry at the same time watch this in St. Paul, MN. Some people are so irrational it isn't funny.

http://www.kare11.com/news/article/908055/391/Business-owners-protest-light-rail-construction-

random thought on the DART. I wish Amtrak had a stop in Denton so you could hop on the DART via A train into Dallas. Would save a lot of time than going into FTW

Yes please

random thought on the DART. I wish Amtrak had a stop in Denton so you could hop on the DART via A train into Dallas. Would save a lot of time than going into FTW

Most people woul only do that about once.
The A Train and DART from down town Dallas to Denton moves so slow, over that distance. Unless there is serious conjestion driving is much, much faster.

I wish Amtrak went directly to DFW then into Dallas.

Most people woul only do that about once.
The A Train and DART from down town Dallas to Denton moves so slow, over that distance. Unless there is serious conjestion driving is much, much faster.

I wish Amtrak went directly to DFW then into Dallas.

There really is no reason the Heartland Flyer could not continue to Dallas Union Station. It could take the TRE line as other Amtrak trains do - and add a stop at the Centerpoint Station for a short bus ride to DFW Airport. It may be because Amtrak servicing of locomotives and cars is done at Ft Worth, but I am not 100% sure about that. Dallas Union Station does not appear to have the staff or facilities for fueling and cleaning presently.

There really is no reason the Heartland Flyer could not continue to Dallas Union Station. It could take the TRE line as other Amtrak trains do - and add a stop at the Centerpoint Station for a short bus ride to DFW Airport. It may be because Amtrak servicing of locomotives and cars is done at Ft Worth, but I am not 100% sure about that. Dallas Union Station does not appear to have the staff or facilities for fueling and cleaning presently.

The heartland flyer definitely can and does stop at union station in Dallas at least twice per year for OU/TX weekend. It takes a short stop in FTW and continues on down the TRE route. Amtrak's Texas Eagle stops in dallas daily.

Let private industry give this a shot. They'll get it running faster, for less money, with no financial risk to taxpayers, and if the prices are too high/service is too low, people won't use it. They'll continue using cars, busses and airlines.

Precisely. I have always believed, and it really is common sense that if private industry is not doing something like this then it is a bad economic idea and the thoughts that the "G" can do it better are idiotic.

Precisely. I have always believed, and it really is common sense that if private industry is not doing something like this then it is a bad economic idea and the thoughts that the "G" can do it better are idiotic.

This might help: Public Goods & Private Goods (http://www.tutor2u.net/economics/revision-notes/as-marketfailure-public-private-goods.html)

There really is no reason the Heartland Flyer could not continue to Dallas Union Station.

It would take a change in Amtrak's way of thinking. They are a national rail carrier and they don't look at the Heartland Flyer as a connection between Ft Worth and OKC. They see it as a connection between OKC and their national real network, and thus, no reason to continue service to Dallas.

This is why I think Amtrak should be broken up into regional systems and drop the cross-country trains. If they won't do it then I would prefer the states create their own systems.

Precisely. I have always believed, and it really is common sense that if private industry is not doing something like this then it is a bad economic idea and the thoughts that the "G" can do it better are idiotic.

So you would support turning I-35 over to a private company, or can the "G" do it better?

So you would support turning I-35 over to a private company, or can the "G" do it better?

So many want to immediately rally against rail as "poor common sense" and "idiotic" yet don't bat an eye are the debt inflating, money pit they drive one every day.

So many want to immediately rally against rail as "poor common sense" and "idiotic" yet don't bat an eye are the debt inflating, money pit they drive one every day.

Mind boggling isn't it. The only thing I can think of is that people are resistant to change, no matter what we are changing from or changing to - be it light bulbs, transportation systems, etc...

Note, I'm not saying all change is good, but all change isn't bad either.

considering Amtrak can take you twice the distance, down to Fort Worth, TX, for half the price.......:calvin:

Precisely. I have always believed, and it really is common sense that if private industry is not doing something like this then it is a bad economic idea and the thoughts that the "G" can do it better are idiotic.
Private industry and common sense would take the Heartland Flyer to where the vast majority of people want to go with the most speed possible. That would be Union station in Dallas.

Most people can not justify the time waster that taking the train is when going to Dallas via FW is so much faster and even cheaper to drive, especially if there is more than one person making the trip.

If nothing else it would be nice if the Flyer stoped closer to the DFW airport with a bus shutle service to the termainals. This would save a lot of time over the current set up to DFW and help justify the continuing existence of the train.

The heartland flyer definitely can and does stop at union station in Dallas at least twice per year for OU/TX weekend. It takes a short stop in FTW and continues on down the TRE route. Amtrak's Texas Eagle stops in dallas daily.

The train would be a lot more practical for OU fans if it was delayed long enough to let fans return after the game on a Saturday evening..... Getting back late Sunday night is not very practical for most fans who need to be back at work on Monday morning.

From what I can tell there is no mind set with Amtrak to have this type of common sense flexibility

The train would be a lot more practical for OU fans if it was delayed long enough to let fans return after the game on a Saturday evening..... Getting back late Sunday night is not very practical for most fans who need to be back at work on Monday morning.

From what I can tell there is no mind set with Amtrak to have this type of common sense flexibility

I know a bunch of people that have ridden it for OU/TX and it hasn't been that big of deal to get back that late and go to work the next day. I did it last year and we got back at about 9:30. It would be nice if it left earlier but it wasn't that big of deal.

I know a bunch of people that have ridden it for OU/TX and it hasn't been that big of deal to get back that late and go to work the next day. I did it last year and we got back at about 9:30. It would be nice if it left earlier but it wasn't that big of deal.


It works well enough for you..... but for the people who have a problem with it..... why not delay the train on Saturday by a couple of hours after the game so people can ride back Saturday night? There are no north bound connections to catch.

I accidently ran across this a few weeks ago, and just recently registered.
I'm 71, in great health (for my age), and born and raised in OKC. After reading many of the comments in this section (and thinking how naive and blind many of you are), I thought I'd chime in and provide some insight to my 71yrs of observations about Okla and OKC.
The short sightedness and narrow mindedness of civic leaders and crooked politicians and greedy speculators has just absolutely ruined SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much of our heritage and historical past. It is so sad and so sickening.
This could go on forever, but I'll try to keep it as short as possible with only a minimum of examples.
There is ALWAYS talk and promoting Okla about our history, heritage and what Okla has done--------------------but yet ALMOST every of historical significance has been torn down and leveled. For what, the sake of progress??????? I have no issues with progress and improving things. But to destroy EVERYTHING of historical significance for the sake of progress? Come on, give me a break! Furthermore, Okla has lost out on SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many opportunities in business and industry because of the stupid narrowmindedness of our past leaders.

This section is about transportation. When I was a little boy, as well as right now today, I ABSOLUTELY do not understand why the streetcars system and Interurban systems were eliminated. Yes, I know and understand about GM's and the petroleum industriy's persuasion and pressures to sell busses and oil/gas/diesel. No re-hash is needed on that. For example, look at all the traffic and nightmares up and down I-35 and I-40. IF, IF, IF the Interurban right of ways had been retained, they could have been upgraded over the years and provided fast, economicaly, quiet, efficient commuter transportation to Norman (through Moore), to Guthrie (through Edmond) and to El Reno (through Bethany, Yukon) as well as extended to large employers such as Tinker and FAA. Many years ago, I had thoughts of having parking lots along the Interurban right of ways with a system similar to the Pike Pass system. Park and lock your car, get on the Interurban, ride to the destinatio and back. It would reduce traffic, save on petrolium consumption and it would be toooooooooooooo simple. But it was only a though I had------------and still have. Well, guess what? The wife visited friends in Dublin last year. Guess what they have over there???? Ya, they have a VERY modern, efficient Interurban type system EXACTLY as what I envisioned. AND IT WORKS GREAT! DARN, what a concept!
And, one comment about rail traffic. Does ANYONE know how many and how much rail traffic, particularly Passenger rail traffic came through OKC? Yes, I know and understand that passenger traffic declined to the point that the service had to end. BUUUUUUUUUUUUT, now we have TOTALLY eliminated ANY POSSIBILITY of providing for passenger service. Yes, the Union Depot still exists, But with the stupid way in which I-40 was relocated, and what was done to cut off the Union Depot so that there NEVER COULD BE any possible means of a passenger train stopping for passenger service, is totally absurbed!!!! WHY???? I will NEVER understand. The Union Depot would have been the most perfect for OKC-to-Tulsa service----------------now there is nothing! What they did was dumb as heck! And on top of that, I would be willing to bet that VERY FEW people here on this forum even have a clue where the Union Depot is located. NO, IT IS NOT WHERE THE AMTRAK TRAIN STOPS!

And moving away from transportation and over to the elimination of our historical past. URBAN RENEWAL! What a tragedy!!!!
During the dynamiting and destruction of all the historical architecture in OKC, SOME, but not all of it, was OK. I had mixed emotions during the destructrion of some buildings, but in my heart, I KNEW FOR A FACT that they would never destroy the Criterion theater. And guess what, IT'S GONE---------------FOREVER! WHY THE DESTRUCTION OF SOOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH HISTORY. Oh ya, and let's not even mention the destruction of one of OKC's most historical buildings----------the Huckins Hotel. Does ANYONE here have a clue what kind historical events occured at and in the Huckins???????? The important people who stayed at the Huckins???

Tom Parsons,

Go here:

Doug Dawgz Blog: Trolleys Part II (http://dougdawg.blogspot.com/2010/05/trolleys-part-ii.html)

One of our fellow posters, Doug Loudenback, it's his blog and it's very informative. I don't think it will squelch your emotion but it may provide a lot of information you don't know. It sure is a damned shame they paved over the rails...

Folks, these are great times but they are also trying times... Please find below my letter to ODOT officially protesting the sale of the "Sooner Sub" line that connects Oklahoma City to Tulsa. I am only posting it on hopes that it gives those interested some easy points to use in hopes that you submit your own form to ODOT. Today is the very last day in which you can do so by email. See the link below from Friends of the Eastern Flyer with instructions on how to make a submission.

Best to all of you,

Jeff Bezdek- MAPS 3 Transit Subcommittee


"I respectfully protest any consideration given to the possible sale of the "Sooner Sub" rail alignment. As an appointed official by the City of Oklahoma City Council and Mayor, it has been conveyed to me of Oklahoma City's desire to maintain this asset for potential use as an alternative mode of transportation to the Turner Turnpike via as a commuter rail or excursion train alternative for passenger rail travel.

In 2013, the Oklahoma City Chamber of Commerce held its first joint meeting with our sister city's Chamber of Commerce, Tulsa. In that meeting, it was determined that rail connectivity should be a legislative priority between our two cities. With that determination, we ask ODOT to respect that desire and preserve the alignment for potential passenger rail for the millions of people who make up this great State's largest two cities.

In addition, it has been called to our attention that diversity in operating opportunities of various types of trains (not just passenger), are potentially critical to enabling the economic viability of industry up and down the Sooner Sub Line. Selling the line or leasing it to an entity that controls and prevents multiple types of uses could adversely affect the current socio-economic environment along the alignment in a negative way.

We have also been repeatedly been given misinformation in this process. Our own review and consultation with State Senators, Representatives, and Commissioners has determined that an absolute sale of the line is not mandated nor is it necessarily warranted. The motivations for the sale seem to be entirely preempted by those entities that may directly profit from the privatization of this asset currently owned by the People of Oklahoma.

Oklahoma City is not simply protesting this sale on a whim. We are investing over $28.5 million in the Santa Fe Station Facillity which would potentially be the terminus for rail travel of the future, including this line. Therefore, we protest the possibility of a sale. Please reconsider and preserve this asset for a majority of Oklahomans.

Jeff M. Bezdek, City of OKC MAPS 3 Transit Committee, ACOG Regional Transit Committee

Cc. Governor Fallin and Cabinet Secretaries"



HERE IS THE FORM- http://www.odot.org/rail/sooner/dataroom/sooner_comment_form.pdf

Download it, fill it out, save it, then attach it to an email to this address- rfprail@odot.org

Any idea what the asking price for this line is? If it is cheap enough maybe OKC and Tulsa could buy it.

Any idea what the asking price for this line is? If it is cheap enough maybe OKC and Tulsa could buy it.

Asking price is fair market value, isn't it? That's what the government has to ask for...

What's the FMV? I don't know...

According to this article the state bought it in 1998 for $5 million. That is cheap enough that OKC and Tulsa should buy it and do what they want and ODOT can go taking a flying leap. It can then be turned over to TxDOT which seems to be the only state agency interested in developing rail in Oklahoma.

Saving the Sooner Sub for the Common Good » Opinion » Chickashanews.com (http://www.chickashanews.com/opinion/x1956155888/Saving-the-Sooner-Sub-for-the-Common-Good)

JTF, you are thinking that it best monetary bid. ODOT conveniently made this "the best overall offer" which could mean anything. BNSF will own the line.