Subject pretty much says it all, haven't heard any plans for them to do anything on the news or on the city website. Anybody know?

They'll be doing what they do. Not just working the weekend, but many coming in during what was supposed to be year-end vacation days (use or lose). I didn't miss seeing the preview of their work on the news thus far. Well, actually, I'm just assuming this.

My son climbed in to his road scraper sanding rig about 4 p.m. He usually works pretty long shifts.

Thee are some anti-freeze weeping systems on bridges. But it is STUPID to clear a street time and time again in an ongoing storm. May times they engage in a holding action until the storm subsides and then they really hit it. I support them and thank them every chance I get. Mel tell your son thanks from me.

Thanks for the replies, just thought they would've brined the streets beforehand like they've done before to help prevent it from sticking, but guess that's not part of their strategy anymore, and I hadn't seen or heard of any salt trucks out during the storm (don't think the wife saw any either).

Thanks for the replies, just thought they would've brined the streets beforehand like they've done before to help prevent it from sticking, but guess that's not part of their strategy anymore, and I hadn't seen or heard of any salt trucks out during the storm (don't think the wife saw any either).

They weren't necessary for this storm. Ground temps were already doing a good job keeping ice off the roads.

Thanks for the replies, just thought they would've brined the streets beforehand like they've done before to help prevent it from sticking, but guess that's not part of their strategy anymore, and I hadn't seen or heard of any salt trucks out during the storm (don't think the wife saw any either).

Saw/heard on one of the tv stations that the brining/salt was not effective because the rain was washing it off as soon as they put it down. For the most part, I think the streets people do a great job!!

Saw/heard on one of the tv stations that the brining/salt was not effective because the rain was washing it off as soon as they put it down. For the most part, I think the streets people do a great job!!

Most likely the case that the salt was being washed off.

As far as street people always doing a great job? I'll bite my tongue so I don't offend anyone here. I'll just put it this way - Schools/businesses etc shouldn't be closed for 3-5 days after the snow ends.

Most likely the case that the salt was being washed off.

As far as street people always doing a great job? I'll bite my tongue so I don't offend anyone here. I'll just put it this way - Schools/businesses etc shouldn't be closed for 3-5 days after the snow ends.

I blame that on the lack of equipment and school districts not wanting to drive on a little ice and snow in the neighborhoods.

Lack of equipment is only a good excuse for a day or two.

Lack of equipment is only a good excuse for a day or two.They work pretty damn hard. We live in subtropical climate zone, we don't have the equipment prepared for these kinds of storms, especially like the one in 2009. If I recall right, OKC posted something saying there is over 7,000 miles of neighborhood streets and it would take forever to clear those. I blame it on the school district for not manning up and putting chains on the tires.

Chains destroys the pavement...so you can't use them. Do I expect every street plowed? Not at all. However, taking a plow down to get some of the snow moved off of the secondary and primary neighborhood streets would do wonders. Let solar radiation do the rest with melting.

Chains destroys the pavement...so you can't use them. Do I expect every street plowed? Not at all. However, taking a plow down to get some of the snow moved off of the secondary and primary neighborhood streets would do wonders. Let solar radiation do the rest with melting.True, I actually didn't think about the fact that the roads weren't iced over. I really don't know then, I'd just think it would be a hassle to get those big truck through neighborhood streets and such.

Chains destroys the pavement...so you can't use them. Do I expect every street plowed? Not at all. However, taking a plow down to get some of the snow moved off of the secondary and primary neighborhood streets would do wonders. Let solar radiation do the rest with melting.
Chains with certain restrictions can be used in Oklahoma.
I have personally used them on the job while working for major corporations many times when working in Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas.

There usage is actually allowed in many states.
Tire Chain Laws (http://www.tirechainsupply.com/tire-chain-laws.html)

"Oklahoma - Permissible upon any vehicle when require for safety because of snow, ice, or other conditions tending to cause a vehicle to skid."

My son normally drives a cement truck for Schwartz Cement. He contracts out to a company that owns the equipment. They do mostly County work. This time it's was bridges and overpasses that became the main problem. Can't take a rig that size down too many neighborhood streets in Mustang. Everybody uses then instead of their driveway.

Some places are now using sugar beet juice.... It's not near as corrosive as salt..
I'm not sure if we use much of that in Oklahoma?
Growing sugar beats for the juice sounds like a good job for our state prisoners?

Lack of equipment is only a good excuse for a day or two.

Ok, so the city doesn't want to pay them to clear neighborhood streets. Every hour spent clearing streets is an hour taken away from their normal everyday city jobs. That's more of a problem with the cities priorities than them not working hard enough.

Ok, so the city doesn't want to pay them to clear neighborhood streets. Every hour spent clearing streets is an hour taken away from their normal everyday city jobs. That's more of a problem with the cities priorities than them not working hard enough.

That's the more likely reason. However, how much money is being lost by schools/businesses not being open compared to paying their drivers OT? Probably a number we'll never know.

OU48 - I wasn't meaning you can't use them anywhere, up north and in more snow prone areas they are definitely legal.

OU48 - I wasn't meaning you can't use them anywhere, up north and in more snow prone areas they are definitely legal.
You sure had me fooled when you said ...and this is your direct quote.


Chains destroys the pavement...so you can't use them.
Seems like a pretty straight forward statement to me!

Tire chains are legal in many states.

You sure had me fooled when you said ...and this is your direct quote.

Seems like a pretty straight forward statement to me!

Tire chains are legal in many states.

Well considering this is an Oklahoma board, I wasn't comment on "many state"...which of course they are legal. The laws however vary widely by state and some have very strict conditions on the type and how and where they are used.

Here is a good resource: Chain Law Information, Owner-Operator Independent Drivers Association (http://www.ooida.com/EducationTools/Info/chain-laws.asp)

In certain areas here they are required for commercial traffic and recommended for private vehicles. We need to get some of the cable type for my wife's (2WD) 4Runner, when it comes time to replace that vehicle we will definitely be getting a 4WD/AWD vehicle. They are easy to find here and we just didn't need 4WD when we bought the 4Runner in Austin.

Well considering this is an Oklahoma board, I wasn't comment on "many state"...which of course they are legal. The laws however vary widely by state and some have very strict conditions on the type and how and where they are used.

Here is a good resource: Chain Law Information, Owner-Operator Independent Drivers Association (http://www.ooida.com/EducationTools/Info/chain-laws.asp)

Then why on earth would you say “YOU CAN'T USE THEM”




Chains destroys the pavement...so you can't use them. .

It's not like they park the plows. This was the same kind of complaining that people were doing in other major cities so the started to broadcast the GPS locations of their plow trucks just to shut people up. The trucks keep going. Unless, in OKC they don't. Which would be unusual. :)

Its pretty rare when they actually get snow routes in "decent" shape before a nice clear sunny day clears everything up for them. The last snow storm they kept plowing snow routes until they were 100% clear and dry which some may argue was overkill.

You don't use chains when it ices up. That will wreck your tires and not actually work very well. Chains are for snow. Studded tires work well on ice though.

You don't use chains when it ices up. That will wreck your tires and not actually work very well. Chains are for snow. Studded tires work well on ice though.
Cross-bar chains are made for more ice than snow, they will tear your tires up if use them when you shouldn't or drive too fast on them so they have to be used judiciously.

Then why on earth would you say “YOU CAN'T USE THEM”

Eh...I miss spoke and should have clarified myself better. It happens. We give you a pass almost every day here so you can give me one. :)

Yep, agree with the sun doing a ton of the city's work. The OKC website (or their twitter feed) said they have 1150 lane miles of emergency snow routes. Assuming 10 plows (don't really know how many they have, that seems conservative) going 20 MPH, and allowing for traffic lights, traffic, breaks for the drivers, etc., they should have the snow routes completely clear within 10 hours (and that's being generous). Why does that not ever happen? During the last snowstorm, they certainly did not plow until they were 100% clear - May Ave was still in bad shape with snow in the medians and turn lanes for a few days afterward, 164th was the same way, a few other streets I was on were the same way. I don't believe it's overkill to plow a snow route until it's clear - hundreds of other cities do this every time they plow and that's the whole point of a snow route (a clear street that people can count on to not be impassable).

I thought they had 3? Plows really aren't a thing here because we very rarely get large snowfalls here. Mostly, we get ice. So you'll see a lot more sand and brine trucks than plows.

Every other city has residents that think the roads don't get cleared fast enough. I'm not saying you're wrong, just offering up some perspective. I've worked on projects that touch the location data on these plows. You can just watch them. They are always moving and always doing their thing. So either your math is off or we're totally not following suit. I think the former is most likely true simply because OKC doesn't have an incentive for just doing nothing when these guys are out there. We've got to provide a better reason that they just choose not to do it. Right?

This last storm that came through, the main avenues were is very good shape. Even bridges like Walnut bridge stayed open and clear while the sidewalks on either side had an inch of snow. In my neck of the woods, they did nothing short of an awesome job.Excellent post and very fair perspective. Does OKC do anything to clear the sidewalks in Downtown?

Excellent post and very fair perspective. Does OKC do anything to clear the sidewalks in Downtown?

I'm never downtown during that kind of weather. Is it a problem and do other cities do sidewalk clearance?

I'm never downtown during that kind of weather. Is it a problem and do other cities do sidewalk clearance?Venture mentioned something about cities requiring citizens to clear their sidewalks after a certain period of time, but as far as cities actually doing something to clear the sidewalks, I have no clue.

Most cities back north of the essentially a gator or "golf cart" with a plow or blower on the front to clear out any CBD sidewalks. All residential sidewalks are the responsibility of the residents and are required to have them cleared either with in 24 hours or by noon the next day. I've seen some even tighter to a few hours after the snow ends.

As far as street people always doing a great job? I'll bite my tongue so I don't offend anyone here. I'll just put it this way - Schools/businesses etc shouldn't be closed for 3-5 days after the snow ends.

Don't want to offend anyone, but I'm with you on this one...

Excellent post and very fair perspective. Does OKC do anything to clear the sidewalks in Downtown?
At our office in LoDo the property owners are responsible for clearing sidewalks, we usually clear our section ourselves and so do the bars around us. The larger properties will usually have a a landscape or property service company clear them. At my wife's building in Capitol Hill their maintenance staff clears the walks, parking lot and alley. There is a CBD crew that picks up trash and such, I think they clean off the 16th Street Mall area walks but I haven't seen them doing any of that in our area by Coors Field.

For residential sidewalk clearing most of the cities have ordinances requiring owners or tenants to clear the sidewalks within 24 hours of the end of the snow. We got a warning from the City of Aurora at the rental house when we were in Austin loading up the moving truck. Luckily it was written the day that we arrived in Aurora with the truck so I had to clear the walk and driveway to unload the truck anyway.

For the most part residential streets do not get cleared up here until the main roads a completely cleared. For a big storm it may be 4-5 days before residential streets have anything done to them. That is about how long it took in Aurora, here in unincorporated Arapahoe County they don't do our residential streets.

I'm never downtown during that kind of weather. Is it a problem and do other cities do sidewalk clearance?

Sometimes up to 70% off.

I thought they had 3? Plows really aren't a thing here because we very rarely get large snowfalls here. Mostly, we get ice. So you'll see a lot more sand and brine trucks than plows.

Every other city has residents that think the roads don't get cleared fast enough. I'm not saying you're wrong, just offering up some perspective. I've worked on projects that touch the location data on these plows. You can just watch them. They are always moving and always doing their thing. So either your math is off or we're totally not following suit. I think the former is most likely true simply because OKC doesn't have an incentive for just doing nothing when these guys are out there. We've got to provide a better reason that they just choose not to do it. Right?

This last storm that came through, the main avenues were is very good shape. Even bridges like Walnut bridge stayed open and clear while the sidewalks on either side had an inch of snow. In my neck of the woods, they did nothing short of an awesome job.

Finally was able to get info from the city today - they have 30 plows and 4 graders. Which makes it even more baffling that the emergency snow routes aren't cleared in a timely manner (or at all, sometimes).

Weather forecasting has progressed by leaps and bounds over the last few years. Employers should keep their non essential employees home on days when severe weather of any type has a 50% or more chance of occurring. Businesses should not wait until the storm arrives to shut down. If the weather does not happen employees can always report for a half day. Businesses that need employees to be present (hospitals, utilities, government , etc.) should set their people up to sleep over at the office or in a nearby hotel/motel. We have every kind of extreme weather happen in this state. We need to start planning for it. The days of flying by the seat of our pants needs to come to an end.

Finally was able to get info from the city today - they have 30 plows and 4 graders. Which makes it even more baffling that the emergency snow routes aren't cleared in a timely manner (or at all, sometimes).

I'm curious. Are you originally from OKC, or did you live elsewhere?

I'm curious. Are you originally from OKC, or did you live elsewhere?

Originally from OKC. Check my posting history, I believe the semi-full story's in there somewhere.

Originally from OKC. Check my posting history, I believe the semi-full story's in there somewhere.

Would you be in favor of paying higher taxes in order to have more plows and road maintenance in general?

Would you be in favor of paying higher taxes in order to have more plows and road maintenance in general?
How much economic activity and paid taxes is lost by people not being able to go to work. How much sales tax money is lost when folks don't go out and shop.....I would bet that its a surprisingly high amout of money when you consider that it's not untypical to have several days of slick roads each year.

It's highly likely IMO that cleaning off the roads sooner would likely increase our economic activity by enough over the life of the equipment to pay for the associated cost.
Most of the ice and snow equipment will last for decades.
IMHO our taxes would not need to be raised.

Removing the ice and snow quicker would also reduce the damage done to our pavements.

Would you be in favor of paying higher taxes in order to have more plows and road maintenance in general?

I'm not sure, have to figure out my total tax rate now (renter, so don't pay property tax), based on gas tax, sales tax, income tax, and where they get the street maintenance funds from. Possibly yes, if it would help. Kind of like the OTA and whatever the IL tollway authority is called - we pay a toll, they get the roads cleared better than any of the other agencies (based on completely anecdotal experience from both me and my wife over the years).

Another good question is - why can't OKC clear 39 lane miles per plow in a day or two with the current funding?

30 isn't much. During major snowstorms there are 500 on the roads plowing and salting just around Cleveland, not counting every private Joe with a truck. Just saying, I'd believe OKC has 30. Atlanta has 50 and they are so amazingly inept.

30 plows or 3? I'm afraid there has been a mistake. I have a hard time believing the City of Oklahoma City has 30 plows. They may have blades they can install onto trucks but that a snow plow does not that truck make.

Direct from ward8 and the appropriate department (and yeah, I'd agree that 30 isn't much for the size of OKC, but we don't get nearly as much snow as Cleveland and we should still be able to clear 39 lane miles of road just for the emergency snow routes per plow pretty quickly):

Mr. XXX:

Information you requested is shown below. Thank you for contacting Councilman.

We have 30 plows and four road graders in Public Works.

The city limits of Denver is "small" compared to OKC, we have a lot of larger suburbs around Denver. One report recently stated there were over 100 trucks that the City of Denver could be fitted with plows and chemical/sand dispensers. Not sure how many Aurora and the other burbs have but I do see the ones in Aurora running all the time in bad weather and the roads there are usually in pretty good shape. We are in unincorporated Arapahoe County and they have some of their own, the main street through our neighborhood gets cleared but the side streets do not. The toll road (E-470) has their own equipment and it stays pretty cleared most of the time, it was clear when I was on it a few times yesterday.

Their count probably Takes into account contracted salter/plows.

Sorry. I should have been clear. I wasn't doubting that's what you were told. Anyway, I think it is either just a case of semantics or they've got more plows than I thought.

Denver has 60 I believe.

For a city of our size and location, that's a very healthy fleet.

I've said before, the solution is just to use a makeshift AVL. Then everyone can see where the plows are at all times. City of Chicago :: Plow Tracker (http://www.cityofchicago.org/city/en/depts/mayor/iframe/plow_tracker.html)

That answers the question about what they are doing for anyone that cares to look.

The City has AVL, but keeps that info to themselves.

The City has 0 "dedicated" plows, but has 30 trucks that transform into plows. Most northern cities do the same - they buy trucks that double as normal dirt/debris-hauling trucks outside of winter.

One thing I wish the City would explore is using plows on the underside of trucks (belly plows). I think they provide more downforce and are more capable of scraping off the snow/ice accumulation than our standard front plows.

Their count probably Takes into account contracted salter/plows.

It doesn't. The City's contracted plow guys generally use motor graders and front end loaders.

I haven't got out today yet, but how are the crews doing today?

35 from Norman to okc didn't get bad until okc. 240 had one lane and was pretty annoying. Highway 9 in Norman wasn't touched or very poorly done. Airport road was perfect. Now if we can just get some consistency. Lol

The City has AVL, but keeps that info to themselves.

The City has 0 "dedicated" plows, but has 30 trucks that transform into plows. Most northern cities do the same - they buy trucks that double as normal dirt/debris-hauling trucks outside of winter.

One thing I wish the City would explore is using plows on the underside of trucks (belly plows). I think they provide more downforce and are more capable of scraping off the snow/ice accumulation than our standard front plows.

I agree - I seriously doubt OKC would give out the AVL info, there's no way they'd want the general public to know where the plows are (transparency isn't OKC's strong suit).

And I also seriously doubt the number I got from the city included contractors, they specifically said "... in Public Works", which would indicate that the count was the number owned by the city. And I agree, I do think their snow plows are dump trucks fitted with salt/sand sprinklers and front plows during the winter, I don't think they're full-time dedicated.

Wonder how horrible the streets are going to be tomorrow and Wednesday? :sofa:

I agree - I seriously doubt OKC would give out the AVL info, there's no way they'd want the general public to know where the plows are (transparency isn't OKC's strong suit).

And I also seriously doubt the number I got from the city included contractors, they specifically said "... in Public Works", which would indicate that the count was the number owned by the city. And I agree, I do think their snow plows are dump trucks fitted with salt/sand sprinklers and front plows during the winter, I don't think they're full-time dedicated.

Wonder how horrible the streets are going to be tomorrow and Wednesday? :sofa:

Back where I'm from up north, dump trucks are the trucks used for plows. It would be a waste of money really to not have more than one function with them. I think the issue is, not every truck is in use at the same time. From an interview I heard a couple days ago before the snow came it, it seemed they rotate operating trucks like they rotate drivers. So they may have 30 but only 10-15 might be running at any given time.

Back where I'm from up north, dump trucks are the trucks used for plows. It would be a waste of money really to not have more than one function with them. I think the issue is, not every truck is in use at the same time. From an interview I heard a couple days ago before the snow came it, it seemed they rotate operating trucks like they rotate drivers. So they may have 30 but only 10-15 might be running at any given time.

Anybody know why this might be? In a nasty storm, they should have all drivers, all trucks/plows, etc. out plowing. Maybe keep one or two trucks/plows idle as backup in case one or more active ones breaks badly enough. And yes, I know that people need to sleep, adhere to labor laws, drive in shifts, etc., but as I mentioned before - 39 miles per plow can't take *that* long to clear (just the emergency snow routes is what I'm talking about).

Anybody know why this might be? In a nasty storm, they should have all drivers, all trucks/plows, etc. out plowing. Maybe keep one or two trucks/plows idle as backup in case one or more active ones breaks badly enough. And yes, I know that people need to sleep, adhere to labor laws, drive in shifts, etc., but as I mentioned before - 39 miles per plow can't take *that* long to clear (just the emergency snow routes is what I'm talking about).

The majority of snow routes are 4 lane, so that adds to the time. Plus, plows can't go too fast or they'll scrape/plow too little.

I think OKC runs the majority at the same time and rotates enough workers, but I might be wrong...

The majority of snow routes are 4 lane, so that adds to the time. Plus, plows can't go too fast or they'll scrape/plow too little.

I think OKC runs the majority at the same time and rotates enough workers, but I might be wrong...

I assume the 4 lanes per mile are counted as 4 lane miles in OKC's tweet, which is where I got my number. So even if they only run 15 plows, that's approximately 80 miles per plow. Going 10 MPH (accounting for traffic lights, traffic, restroom breaks, etc., 10 MPH seems reasonable - plows in Chicagoland go way faster than that, but I think they're probably more heavy duty), they should only still take 8 hours to clear the emergency snow routes. Just seems weird and sad that it doesn't happen that way...