Most likely through a fee-for-service agreement, that's how they handled non-DoD stuff back when I was working for DISA there (1986-1995).

TAFB has been a candidate for closing since I worked there, wonder if it will ever be truly safe from closure...

Hopefully, no location will ever be truly safe from closure. The entire purpose behind BRAC proceedings is to make sure we're using our dollars in the most advantageous method possible.
and then we hand the decision over to politicians to pervert every bit of logic therein.

You realize they are approving this money AFTER the jobs have already been awarded to Tinker right? In my book that make this one of the dumbest expenditures of money in a long time.

Among the many post you have on this site. This very well might be the most incorrect and uninformed

Hopefully, no location will ever be truly safe from closure. The entire purpose behind BRAC proceedings is to make sure we're using our dollars in the most advantageous method possible.
and then we hand the decision over to politicians to pervert every bit of logic therein.

Heh, agree with the last part, but does it really make sense to keep going over and over and over and over the same stuff/bases time and again? It's kind of like Apple doing the same thing with every one of their stores every year, even the ones that perform at 150% every quarter that will most likely never close? Or is TAFB not at that point yet, where they're truly invaluable? Maybe after the 20th round of BRAC (not sure what round they're on now, they were on the first or second round during my tenure there), TAFB will have made itself too valuable to close? When we get down to 3 mega-bases? Not sure where it will end. Also not sure how much money is spent on BRAC investigations that could be spent more wisely, maybe it's all spent wisely...

Heh, agree with the last part, but does it really make sense to keep going over and over and over and over the same stuff/bases time and again? It's kind of like Apple doing the same thing with every one of their stores every year, even the ones that perform at 150% every quarter that will most likely never close? Or is TAFB not at that point yet, where they're truly invaluable? Maybe after the 20th round of BRAC (not sure what round they're on now, they were on the first or second round during my tenure there), TAFB will have made itself too valuable to close? When we get down to 3 mega-bases? Not sure where it will end. Also not sure how much money is spent on BRAC investigations that could be spent more wisely, maybe it's all spent wisely...

I suspect that there would be no need to go over and over it again, if the BRAC commission were to get what it recommended, but they don't and when they have to do it again, it's subjected to a very political (geographically) approval process. Consequently, every entity that wants to continue needs to say it again and again.

Speaking of political approval processes...

House Rebuffs Pentagon On Defense Spending (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/22/house-pentagon-defense-spending_n_5373657.html?utm_hp_ref=politics)

"With the ending of two wars and diminishing budgets, the Pentagon had proposed retiring the U-2 and the A-10 Warthog close air support aircraft, taking 11 Navy cruisers out of the normal rotation for modernization and increasing out-of-pocket costs for housing and health care.

Republicans, even tea partyers (sic) who came to Congress demanding deep cuts in federal spending, and Democrats rejected the Pentagon budget, sparing the aircraft, ships and troop benefits."

I'm all for keeping jobs, but our defense budget is seriously, seriously out of control, has been for decades.

About the USA's 2010 defense budget:

Howard Steven Friedman: 5 Countries With the Highest Military Expenditure (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/howard-steven-friedman/military-spending-united-states_b_1118851.html)

" In fact, the United States spends more on its military than the total spent by the second largest (China), third largest (United Kingdom), fourth largest (France), fifth largest (Russia)... and fifteenth largest (Turkey) combined. "

I suspect that there would be no need to go over and over it again, if the BRAC commission were to get what it recommended, but they don't and when they have to do it again, it's subjected to a very political (geographically) approval process. Consequently, every entity that wants to continue needs to say it again and again.

Tinker has made itself so valuable to the maintenance/supply world I have a hard time believing it would be on the chopping block anytime soon. They went from five depots to three (closed Sacramento and Kelly). Most of the Kelly workload went to Tinker and some of the Sacramento load did too. Now it's the head complex and home of the 3-star in charge of the Air Force Sustainment Center.

With 3001 and the old GM plant as two of the biggest buildings in the DoD, that only helps their case: How much would it cost to build a massive maintenance facility in 2014? Surely far too much to justify shutting two of them down.

Honestly, I'd say Vance would be at the most risk in Oklahoma (not that the risk of closure is high, just that they are more at risk than the other two bases). Shephard in Wichita Falls has the same mission and could absorb their folks. Altus just landed additional duties for training and has an extremely high percentage of flyable days (which is why they've survived).

Honestly, I'd say Vance would be at the most risk in Oklahoma (not that the risk of closure is high, just that they are more at risk than the other two bases). Shephard in Wichita Falls has the same mission and could absorb their folks. Altus just landed additional duties for training and has an extremely high percentage of flyable days (which is why they've survived).

Didn't Vance just add a squadron from Shephard during the last BRAC?

Didn't Vance just add a squadron from Shephard during the last BRAC?

Not sure. I couldn't find it online but I did see where the DoD proposed to send parts of Sheppard's training mission to Eglin in Florida. Not sure if it happened but it seems my observation was backward: Sheppard must be more at risk.

Another 2,000 civilian jobs could be coming to Tinker later, Sears said

Fine - but COULD is a pretty open ended word. But let's say it did happen, then pass Quality Jobs for those 2,000 jobs - NOT the jobs that had already been announced. Now if you think there was some back room deal with the Federal government in exchange for manipulating the military then the DOJ needs to open an investigation into that.

Personally, I find it shameful that the federal government would even be allowed to be exempted from local income taxes. I mean, of all the entities on Earth the one least eligible for income tax rebates in exchange for jobs should be the federal government.

Places like Altus and Vance do have some good things going for them compared to SOME other similar facilities in their world. Lots of open space around them. Vance probably has a better chance of surviving just because of its location for that vast open land in the middle of nowhere. Altus is darned close to Wichita Falls so the bases being so close to each other doesn't help their case. While Vance is more for training and Altus for being a traditional "base", their duties could very easily be combined. But the next question would be, do either of them have the land to support adding the others?....or that of another closed facility? Does Vance's runway have room to handle larger aircraft than the little trainers? Could Altus handle all the traffic the trainers would add?

Tinker could probably handle the larger fleet, but in no way would take over Vance's role. But Tinker is a depot....not really a "base" in the traditional sense. Yes, there are some small groups based here, but that's not the main purpose of the facility. The amount of in/out traffic would be a huge factor. Is the runway built to handle that much increased traffic? Would the base try to push more for exclusion zones if those fleets were added...killing the Mid-Del economy? There's a LOT to consider.

Places like Altus and Vance do have some good things going for them compared to SOME other similar facilities in their world. Lots of open space around them. Vance probably has a better chance of surviving just because of its location for that vast open land in the middle of nowhere. Altus is darned close to Wichita Falls so the bases being so close to each other doesn't help their case. While Vance is more for training and Altus for being a traditional "base", their duties could very easily be combined. But the next question would be, do either of them have the land to support adding the others?....or that of another closed facility? Does Vance's runway have room to handle larger aircraft than the little trainers? Could Altus handle all the traffic the trainers would add?

Tinker could probably handle the larger fleet, but in no way would take over Vance's role. But Tinker is a depot....not really a "base" in the traditional sense. Yes, there are some small groups based here, but that's not the main purpose of the facility. The amount of in/out traffic would be a huge factor. Is the runway built to handle that much increased traffic? Would the base try to push more for exclusion zones if those fleets were added...killing the Mid-Del economy? There's a LOT to consider.

Altus has room to grow and the runway can handle any plane in the USAF inventory.

I think you are confusing "base" with operational. Tinker is actually two very different functions on one base. The depot gets the attention but the 552nd Wing is extremely important for the Air Force and is a traditional operating Wing. On most installations it would be the top dog on base (it is the host unit, so the O-6 in charge is the base commander. It's complicated with a 3 star on the other side of the base).

Altus has some training functions in addition to their air mobility mission but they lost some/most when the C-141 retired. They are also scheduled to receive the new KC-46A to replace the KC-135.

Very interesting. Hopefully their efforts are rewarded. Is there any way to track progress on this somewhere? Or do we just wait for a decision to be announced?

You know how rumors work, so take this with a grain of salt: I've heard that the switch from Air Refueling to Special Operations is a done deal. Sometime next year, if my information is correct, WRANGB should transition from ARW to AFSOC. This will drop a lot of AGR slots, which will be great for local Guard personnel who've been looking for work. Non-government employers tend to hesitate with Guard and Reserve folks, so many struggle with finding meaningful work. A bunch of AGR openings will be a huge help to these folks and to OKC.

Anyway, as I mentioned, take it all with a grain of salt. We'll just have to wait and see.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not a surprise, but Fallin signs the bill.

Oklahoma governor signs bill to help Tinker add jobs | NewsOK.com (http://m.newsok.com/gov.-fallin-signs-bill-to-help-tinker-add-1300-jobs/article/4859282)

It would have been much better had NewsOK.com shown a pic of a KC-46 instead of an AWACS.


http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/military/kc46a/kc46a.html

It's really the last piece of the land puzzle out there too. I'm glad to see they're going to make use of it. BNSF hasn't used it well since GM left and I can't say i'll be sad to see the rail lines go. Hopefully they'll close them down (and preferably pull them out) at least to the west side of Sooner. The travel so incredibly slow along that line at all hours. And the crossings are all HORRIBLE.

At least now that last block will be purchased so the GM and Tinker areas connect. And with really comparatively little effort, it's got flight line access, so that's awesome.

It would really serve the base well to consolidate a lot of the office operations into a more centralized structure too. But that'll probably never happen. With so many of the little piss-ant sized office areas being for a specific group, the funding for a larger facility like how 3001 is set up, just won't be there. The place is just running out of room for people to put their butts. Putting in a 5 story version of 3001 could free up a TON of land all over the base. Pipe dream though.

Oklahoma County approves Tinker Aerospace Complex bonds | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-county-approves-tinker-aerospace-complex-bonds/article/4958751)

Great. Now I just wish I could find out what the plans are for the tracks. I'm sure they'll just abandon them, but I'd REALLY like to see the city pull out the crossings along all of 240.

Senate panel OKs funding for AWACS planes at Tinker Air Force Base in Oklahoma | News OK (http://newsok.com/senate-panel-oks-funding-for-awacs-planes-at-tinker-air-force-base-in-oklahoma/article/5005142)

This is good news!


Council approves $23.5M in bonds for hangars by Tinker

Oklahoma City Council members approved $23.5 million in general obligation limited tax bonds Tuesday. The funds will go toward the development of a $500 million hangar complex near Tinker Air Force Base.

Read more: Council approves $23.5M in bonds for hangars by Tinker | The Journal Record (http://journalrecord.com/2014/09/09/council-approves-23-5m-in-bonds-for-hangars-by-tinker-general-news/#ixzz3CsGsnG1O)

Great news!


Oklahoma City officials approved $23.5 million in bonds this week to go toward the development of a hangar complex near Tinker Air Force Base.

City Council members approved the general obligation limited tax bonds Tuesday, reports a local business newspaper. The planned location is north of Interstate 240 at Air Depot Boulevard. The 156-acre property is owned by BNSF Railway.

Issuing the bond debt is contingent on the land’s acquisition by the U.S. Air Force with the help of Oklahoma County and city officials.

Roy Williams, Greater Oklahoma City Chamber president and CEO, said work on the hangar complex project has been in development for several years.

He said construction on a 14-hangar facility is expected to begin next year and finish in 2018. Once the hangar complex is fully built, about 1,300 people will be employed with an average annual salary of $62,000.

- Oklahoma City Council approves $23.5M in bonds for hangars | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-council-approves-23.5m-in-bonds-for-hangars/article/5340645)

14 more hangers, wow!

Tinker Air Force Base seeks engineers and computer scientists | News OK (http://newsok.com/tinker-air-force-base-seeks-engineers-and-computer-scientists/article/5359560)

Drone repair program opens at Tinker Air Force Base in Oklahoma | News OK (http://newsok.com/drone-repair-program-opens-at-tinker-air-force-base-in-oklahoma/article/5368387)

Good news for Tinker.
Tinker Air Force Base's entire fleet of AWACS planes would survive another year under defense bill | News OK (http://newsok.com/tinker-entire-fleet-of-awacs-would-survive-another-year-under-defense-bill/article/5372273)



WASHINGTON — U.S. Sen. Jim Inhofe protected Tinker Air Force Base’s entire fleet of AWACS planes as part of a final deal hashed out Tuesday by leaders of congressional defense committees.



Inhofe, of Tulsa, the top Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee, blocked — at least for a year — an Air Force proposal to cut seven of the 27 command-and-control planes and a reserve unit associated with them at Tinker.
The bill would also ...

Authorize another $36 million for a Boeing program in Oklahoma City to modernize the C-130. The Air Force wants to kill the program and has been resisting congressional efforts to keep it alive.

Air Force doesn't want it, but he's gonna blow tens of millions of my tax dollars anyway.

Air Force doesn't want it, but he's gonna blow tens of millions of my tax dollars anyway.

Interesting considering his "small government, no intrusion" stance on so many other things.

Air Force doesn't want it, but he's gonna blow tens of millions of my tax dollars anyway.

If you're paying tens of millions, then you won't miss it. LOL

If you're paying tens of millions, then you won't miss it. LOL

I think his statement was tounge in cheek. He isn't literally paying tens of millions.

I think his statement was tounge in cheek. He isn't literally paying tens of millions.

I imagine Bella understood that bit. Of course, I stand to be corrected if I'm in error. In other news, I get to see the 707 legacy fly on for another year, so it's not a total waste of money. :)

I imagine Bella understood that bit. Of course, I stand to be corrected if I'm in error. In other news, I get to see the 707 legacy fly on for another year, so it's not a total waste of money. :)

Yep, I even put an LOL after it.

If they ever update the runways at Tinker, I hope they move the N/S runway a bit farther south so as not to impose such a huge building/new construction restriction on the areas labeled in the Accident Potential Zones.

HMMMMM.

President of Oklahoma City defense contractor accused of bribing Tinker official with trips to strip clubs, cash, cruise tickets, bass boat and meals at Hooters | NewsOK.com (http://m.newsok.com/defense-contractor-accused-of-bribing-tinker-official-with-trips-to-strip-clubs-cash-cruise-tickets-bass-boat-and-meals-at-hooters/article/5372960)

I need to be a "Tinker official".

OKC acquires land to deed to Tinker for new KC-46A depot operations

http://www.okcchamber.com/index.php?src=news&srctype=detail&category=Oklahoma%20City&refno=813

This is the BNSF rail yard that sits between Tinker and the old GM Plant.

The City and State have been working on this for a while; will bring 1,300 new jobs to Tinker.

I've said it before, but we need to map out everything happening in and around Tinker because I can't keep track of it all. Which is a good thing!

Here's a quick-and-dirty aerial. I'll add more detail later:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/tinker.jpg

Here's a quick-and-dirty aerial. I'll add more detail later:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/tinker.jpg

Dang...that was quick

This is fantastic news.

I'm a bit of a n00b when it comes to Tinker stuff. Is this independent of the 900 jobs with Boeing?

Yes, completely separate from Boeing.

And there are some other recent big job creation projects out there as well.

Even though Tinker is by far bigger, we have kind of a two-headed economic monster with Tinker on one end of I-40 and Hobby Lobby (and tons more light manufacturing and distribution) as the other end.

Is there anything going on at the GM plant?

Yes, completely separate from Boeing.

And there are some other recent big job creation projects out there as well.

Even though Tinker is by far bigger, we have kind of a two-headed economic monster with Tinker on one end of I-40 and Hobby Lobby (and tons more light manufacturing and distribution) as the other end.

Great. I was getting a little worried about TAFB, with all the defense cuts that were occurring last year. Excited to hear what's in the pipeline.

Is there anything going on at the GM plant?

Yes, it's full of Tinker-related industry.

Oklahoma County acquired it in 2008 and leases it out to Tinker.

A couple of years ago, it was reported Building 9001 (as it's now called) employs over 1,600 and that was only at 60% capacity. I believe it's fuller now.

More:

Building 9001 (Tinker Aerospace Complex)
Originally known as the Tinker Aerospace Complex housed in the former General Motors Oklahoma City Assembly Plant located west of the runway on the south side of the base, north of I-240. A 50-year lease-purchase agreement was executed in September 2008 between Oklahoma County and the Air Force, covering the 2.5 million square foot (353,000 m²) facility and 407-acre (1.65 km2)

Previously, the largest single building at the base was Building 3001 at 1,300,000 square feet (120,000 m2)

Tinker has leased about 4/5 of the facility and will host some current 76th Maintenance Wing operations as well as other Department of Defense missions, including work on the C-17 engines, joint strike fighter engines and core work on the new KC-46 tanker. Work being transferred to the complex is currently being done at 69 separate facilities on base, many of which are World War II-era temporary buildings located in runway clear zones. Burlington Northern Santa Fe provides a rail spur into the complex.

Good to know, Tinker is huge.

The Quality Jobs Act was changed to allow for state assistance on this. Not sure the specifics but we did give some tax payer money away to land this.

The Quality Jobs Act was changed to allow for state assistance on this. Not sure the specifics but we did give some tax payer money away to land this.

Probably money well spent as TAFB is a huge employer and this will bring in more jobs. I appreciate everything our elected officials are doing to make TAFB vital and strong in case another round of closures happen.

The Chamber lists Tinker as employing 27,000 (!) and that does not include Boeing or the latest round of new jobs.

That represents an incredible economic engine.

They are also very well paying government jobs.

It's not 27,000 $10 an hour workers.

Probably money well spent as TAFB is a huge employer and this will bring in more jobs. I appreciate everything our elected officials are doing to make TAFB vital and strong in case another round of closures happen.

I detest Jim Inhofe, but the dude hustles for Tinker. The base has had more close calls then people realize; the lobbying on his (and others) part has made a big difference.

I detest Jim Inhofe, but the dude hustles for Tinker. The base has had more close calls then people realize; the lobbying on his (and others) part has made a big difference.

Get out of my head!! I was going to post that also as it relates to Jim Inhofe as he has done a lot for our local bases and I detest him as well. Our local gov't has done well also making sure the base was as safe as possible by buying what they need and also clearing out obstacles.

From the JR:

Refueling the economy: City, county combine to buy land for Tinker expansion

By: Brian Brus The Journal Record February 4, 2015

OKLAHOMA CITY – Tinker Air Force Base accepted title Wednesday to 158 acres of a former Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railway Co. rail yard that once served a General Motors plant.

U.S. Air Force officials said they will use the land to build a depot maintenance facility for the military’s next big aerial refueling aircraft, the KC-46A Pegasus, with the first plane expected to move through by 2018.

The Oklahoma City municipal government purchased the BNSF yard in order to deed the land over to the base, bringing a nearly decade-long redevelopment project to a close. General Motors shut down its sport-utility vehicle assembly line at the plant in 2006, eliminating about 2,500 union jobs. The building remained vacant until 2008, when the board of Oklahoma County commissioners asked residents to approve a $55 million bond issue to purchase the property and lease it to Tinker.

To purchase the rail yard, the Oklahoma City municipal government contributed $23.5 million, and Oklahoma County put up $12.5 million. The Air Force paid $8 million. Cathy O’Connor, president of the Alliance for Economic Development of Oklahoma City, said the investment will help revitalize economic development in the area.

“This truly does bring it full circle,” said Bonnie Cheatwood, executive director at the Midwest City Chamber of Commerce. “There’s no way this couldn’t have a huge economic impact. It’s going to bring 1,300 jobs, to say nothing of spinoff interests. You’ll have other companies moving here, generating more jobs and residents.”

Cheatwood said she expects that the business conference Tinker & the Primes held annually in Midwest City will be too large to handle this year because of the new business the new depot will attract.

The KC-46A is intended to replace the Air Force’s aging fleet of KC-135 Stratotankers, the primary refueling aircraft for more than 50 years. Lt. Gen. Bruce Litchfield said that since the aircraft was introduced, Tinker has been home to the majority of KC-135 sustainment and maintenance. The modernized KC-46A replacement tanker will extend the global reach of the Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps.

“It’s safe to say that supporting the KC-46 represents the bedrock for the next 50 years,” Litchfield said.

It'll be interesting to see how the jobs stack up when they begin phasing out the KC-135 work (which may be a long, long time down the road). I know, when I left two years ago, they were just starting an engine upgrade for the KC-135 that would take it into the mid-2030s and end the need for programmed maintenance before they retired the jet. It'll be interesting to see that status when I return next week.

http://www.okctalk.com/general-civic-issues/35957-tinker-afb.html

http://newsok.com/air-force-formally-accepts-land-for-major-new-repair-center-at-tinker-air-force-base/article/5390541



The Air Force cemented a lucrative and long-term commitment to Tinker Air Force Base and the local community on Wednesday, officially accepting land on which to build the repair center for the next generation of aerial refueling planes.



At a ceremony at Tinker, Air Force officials took possession of the 158-acre site that was once a BNSF rail yard. State and local officials worked with the Air Force to acquire the land, which is on the west side of the base. The $44 million purchase price was shared among the Air Force, Oklahoma County and Oklahoma City.
Oklahoma City and Oklahoma County provided a combined $36 million to enable the land acquisition but will get some of that money back from the state’s Quality Jobs Program.


Oklahoma Gov. Mary Fallin, Rep. Tom Cole, Mayor Mick Cornett comment on Tinker Air Force Base expansion | NewsOK.com (http://m.newsok.com/oklahoma-gov.-mary-fallin-rep.-tom-cole-mayor-mick-cornett-comment-on-tinker-air-force-base-expansion/article/5390676)

This is great news coming off what looked to be a possible downturn of the economy in OKC with the price of oil.

Pete, you mention a rail line, but I don't think the intent is to use the rail at all. Remember Tinker has worked to remove rail access into the base everywhere it has ever existed. Even the north side that was used into the 90's was ripped out over the highway and 29th. Personally, I hope the BNSF lines do NOT get used either. I'd LOVE to see the rail crossings along 74th pulled out and graded over. Maybe then, they would finally be able to make Sooner's crossing not a roller coaster.

Now please please please rip out the rail line along 74th!

This is fantastic news.

I'm a bit of a n00b when it comes to Tinker stuff. Is this independent of the 900 jobs with Boeing?

As has been previously answered, this is separate from the Boeing jobs. A huge chunk of the Boeing jobs will actually be for support on aircraft not maintained at Tinker, such as the B-2 and the Wedgetail. In fact 50 extra jobs for the C-17 were just announced this week, the announcement also seemed to suggest there may be more movement of C-17 positions to OKC.

The being said Boeing is designing/building the KC-46. Sustainment will likely mostly stay in Seattle for awhile, but placing the depot maintenance at Tinker strongly increases the chances of that work moving to OKC, which could be another 250+ jobs.

Pete: It'd be nice if we could get a Boeing article/thread going. With the 900 positions announced last year, already more this year, the massive expansion of the parking lot and talk of building a new labs building and/or another office building. I've heard the lot north of Boeing (green on your map) is where the new labs building is going, but am not sure, there has been a lot of dirt work over there recently.

Pete: It'd be nice if we could get a Boeing article/thread going.

http://www.okctalk.com/businesses-employers/28260-boeing.html

This is great news coming off what looked to be a possible downturn of the economy in OKC with the price of oil.

Don't assume the oil debacle is over, just because of temporary gains, doesn't mean we won't see a downward trend for awhile. For all our sake, I hope I'm wrong.