I think it needs to be at least 750-800 rooms to keep from losing out on bigger conventions. I also think this a prime spot being right across from the Peake for a nice tall tower displaying whover's name decides be this hotel. Omni, if you want some big time free advertising on TV during Thunder games, this is yours for the taking. I also think it would be a prime spot for people coming from out of town for Thunder games as well. Build us a great hotel and the second tallest building in OKC!

Hopefully we will get something moving soon. We lose larger conventions because we do not have the space to house them. Even is multiple hotels. these groups do not want to be scattered all over town they want to be relatively close together.

Here is the Denver Hyatt Convention Center Hotel. 1100 rooms, 38 floors, 489 feet. Opened 2005 at a cost of $355M. I would imagine this would be the scale of an OKC hotel, no way anything much over 500 ft gets built if we are talking 500-750 rooms and a cost under $300M. Still a win for OKC!


10053

JTF prediction - this hotel will have financial problems and below-estimated attendance for its entire life.

If this were Charlotte, the hotel would be 50 stories.

Will be surprised if it tops out above 25 stories; hotel height stories, not big energy height stories.

JTF prediction - this hotel will have financial problems and below-estimated attendance for its entire life.

It is safe to say that you are a "glass half empty" kind of guy Kerry. I hope that your prediction is wrong. Me being the "glass half full" guy that I am, I believe that everyone's surprise the hotel will be a huge success!
'

Where's the faith! As soon as we become an airport hub city we're golden.

Louisville is getting a brand new 36 floor, 471ft Omni for $261 million. It includes space for another 225 apartments and 70,000 square-feet of meeting space, but the main tower is for the hotel. So a 400ft hotel is completely within OKC's range.

A couple of my convention hotel favorites (in no particular order):

1. Marriott Rivercenter San Antonio -- 918 rooms, 38 floors, 546 feet

http://cache.marriott.com/propertyimages/s/satrc/satrc_main02.jpg

2. Omni Fort Worth -- 614 rooms, 447 feet

http://www.fortwortharchitecture.com/omni-const-se.jpg

3. JW Marriott/Ritz Carlton Los Angeles L.A. Live (there is zero chance of us getting a JW in OKC) -- 878 rooms, 54 floors, 660 feet

http://custom.cvent.com/4F85513D1ED644A78965278996F1C300/pix/RFP/5253AFACC5214D47A3FFC4CB876AFFB2/744fb620d6114df9be8ab37fbccac80a.jpg

4. Omni Nashville -- 800 rooms, 21 floors, 269 feet, $250 million -- probably in-line with what OKC will be getting

http://www.omnihotels.com/-/media/images/hotels/bnadtn/hotel/bnadtn-omni-nashville-hotel-exterior-retail.jpg?h=660&la=en&w=1170

It is safe to say that you are a "glass half empty" kind of guy Kerry. I hope that your prediction is wrong. Me being the "glass half full" guy that I am, I believe that everyone's surprise the hotel will be a huge success!
'

For the record, I am a realist and the glass is completely full - half with water and half with air. :)

The list of troubled convention hotels is a very long list with very few success stories (and even those success stories are the result of smoke and mirrors). The Denver Hyatt is touted by many pro-convention center people as the model to emulate, but instead of being a profit center for the city, it receives a $9,000,000 annual payment from the city. So on paper it looks to be profitable, but in real life it can't support itself. It's not a sustainable model.

https://www.moodys.com/research/MOODYS-AFFIRMS-DENVER-CONVENTION-CENTER-HOTEL-AUTHORITYS-SERIES-2006-SENIOR-Rating-Update--RU_16970784

Anyhow, I won't belabor the point any longer as we have been over that a million times and the hotel IS going to be built, so back to height and room count predictions. If anyone else wants to comment on the prediction I will give them the last word.

Peace out.

It's only money. We subsidize everything else downtown. Might as well build another hotel too.


Fischer said the project is a public-private partnership with Omni paying 52 percent of the development costs ($150 million) and the city and state providing 48 percent ($139 million), which includes a rebate of taxes generated by the project, $17 million for a parking garage to be constructed and owned by the Parking Authority of River City (PARC) and $17 million, the value of the land.

Omni to Construct 30+ Story Building Downtown; Hotel, Apartments, Grocery, Local Art Gallery | LouisvilleKy.gov (http://louisvilleky.gov/news/omni-construct-30-story-building-downtown-hotel-apartments-grocery-local-art-gallery)

The sustainable model have never really been accurate for OKC. Macy's in Penn Square mall is a great example. They started a retail revolution when it was revealed that his was one of their top grossing stores. A lot of the others took notice event though we have one of the worst demographic models for retail. Same for the Outlet shops who are on their 3rd expansion. Better yet the model for cities who build an NBA arena in hope that a team will come is not very positive either. I am not saying that anyone is right or wrong here, only that I have a positive outlook for the convention center hotel and only time will tell.

The sustainable model have never really been accurate for OKC. Macy's in Penn Square mall is a great example. They started a retail revolution when it was revealed that his was one of their top grossing stores. A lot of the others took notice event though we have one of the worst demographic models for retail. Same for the Outlet shops who are on their 3rd expansion. Better yet the model for cities who build an NBA arena in hope that a team will come is not very positive either. I am not saying that anyone is right or wrong here, only that I have a positive outlook for the convention center hotel and only time will tell.

Agree with this.

With everything in OKC it seems like many underestimate what this city can really support. In the early 2000s people said the city would never be able to support an NBA team. It was said for years that OKC couldn't support retail like Whole Foods yet this location is one of the top grossing locations in the country and they are now looking to build their second. In fact times when investment in this city doesn't totally blow projections out of the water are rare. I think the convention center and hotel will be a huge success.

Agree with this.

With everything in OKC it seems like many underestimate what this city can really support. In the early 2000s people said the city would never be able to support an NBA team. It was said for years that OKC couldn't support retail like Whole Foods yet this location is one of the top grossing locations in the country and they are now looking to build their second. In fact times when investment in this city doesn't totally blow projections out of the water are rare. I think the convention center and hotel will be a huge success.

That is 100% correct. It's the attitude from 30 years ago and OKC isn't the same city now as it was. I say go for it.

If it is going to be on TV for every Thunder home game and then on display during the Playoffs, then let's not build it for today's figure of 735, but reach for tomorrows growth of 1,000 rooms w/ 500 ft + in height. A great design and the latest in lighting, would make this an iconic look and something we could all be proud of. The Hotel Group that wins this prize (should) make this property as a Signature piece for their brand.

When people across the US see this type of "wow" from OKC on game nights, it will help OKC to capture more interest in additional events held & larger single trade show events too.

I don't know the right number of rooms, but if this is to receive subsidiaries from the city, they should require a design that the city can use for promotion. We need it to stand out on tv and for I-40 and to give conventioneers something to comment about when they go back home.

If it is going to be on TV for every Thunder home game and then on display during the Playoffs, then let's not build it for today's figure of 735, but reach for tomorrows growth of 1,000 rooms w/ 500 ft + in height. A great design and the latest in lighting, would make this an iconic look and something we could all be proud of. The Hotel Group that wins this prize (should) make this property as a Signature piece for their brand.

When people across the US see this type of "wow" from OKC on game nights, it will help OKC to capture more interest in additional events held & larger single trade show events too.

Agree 100%.

The convention center & hotel needs to be the iconic centerpiece of the MAPS 3 projects. Anything short of the 735 rooms suggested in the study will be a disappointment. The city may have to fork over some financial incentives to get a developer to provide a 1,000-plus room hotel development. Time (2018-19 completion) for OKC to break out; it will be a gamble that will be well worth it.

And if the next arena isn't anywhere near this desired over built dreamtel, the one that's advocated because it'll look goos on the brief clips going into and out of commercial breaks, aka time to hit the fridge or the head or let the dog out so none of the game is missed periods. Sorry, maybe it's because I like sports but do not live and breathe it, but this doesn't sound like a solid idea to me.

These folks are the last ones I would want to extend credit to. The study by an expert says 735 rooms. OK, let's overbuild by 25% and judge suitability by height. SMDH!

Yeah, I'm really not sure why everyone is working themselves into a lather thinking this hotel needs to be huge and iconic or it will be a failure. Trust me, you all will just be disappointed in the end LOL. I trust the experts here...700 hotel rooms is A LOT. It would be at least the second largest full service hotel in the state. There's also several hotels within walking distance, and most of the BT hotels and (future) midtown hotels will be accessible by the streetcar. Don't forget 21c whatever comes of FNC.

The last really huge convention I went to was the North American Prospect Expo (NAPE) in Houston. While the Hilton next door has 1200 rooms, its nowhere near enough hotel rooms for NAPE. The convention center itself runs buses to hotels as far away as Uptown (that's about 7 miles away). The point being, big conventions understand they will not all be able to fit into one property; so long as one is available for a majority of attendants and its close it doesn't matter.

And speaking of the Hilton in Houston, it wouldn't shock me if the design is somewhat similar. The Hilton down there is wider than it is taller to take advantage of the views of Discovery Green. I imagine this will be similar due to its location next to MBG.

Typical small town thinking going on here.

It's not a waste of money to create a signature design that will identify OKC. Many large cities across the world are immediately known by an iconic building. It's good advertisement. Since the city will subsidize this building, they should get the additional exposure out of the investment. It doesn't have to be a tall tower or 1000 rooms, but a unique building that makes a statement.

This is the one building I want to be all glass and super futuristic lookin . Needs to be decked out in all kinds of lights. Neon, LEDs, flood, Spotlights . It needs to be obnoxious and loud. I don't care about height as much but it needs to be a attention grabber at night.

These folks are the last ones I would want to extend credit to. The study by an expert says 735 rooms. OK, let's overbuild by 25% and judge suitability by height. SMDH!

Well that depends, Are we building for now or the future? Is the 735 rooms already economically feasible, or is it already being built for the next 10-20 years? If the 735 rooms is feasible now, why don't we anticipate for future growth?

You don't want to oversaturate the market so that they have to start discounting the rooms to fill them. That hurts all the other hotels and leads to an overall decline in quality and lower future development. When 735 rooms began to be routinely filled, a second large hotel can be built or they can leave room in the design for a second tower.

Typical small town thinking going on here.

Plutonic Panda it is definitely small town thinking...

If you build a competitive 700 plus room hotel that is booked for a large convention that may require a block of 400-500 rooms that doesn't leave much wiggle room; therefore, you don't hold that advantage over neighbor cities like Dallas, Denver or Houston.

Situated in the middle of the country, we are the crossroads city (I-35/I-40) interchange) of the United States--take advantage of this.

OKC will need a large hotel if we want to compete for conventions which could attract convention blocks of 300 to 500 rooms on any given night. Get away from these small-town plans if you want your airport to grow to mini-hub status.

Most large conventions want to house all of their conventioneers in the same venue. A plus for OKC if you have the facilities to accommodate large gathering without the use of shuttle service to other hotels to your convention center. We could attract large blocks of conventions where Houston & Dallas are overbooked which results in the use of nearby hotels.

You want to be prepared for growth--take advantage of what Dallas & Houston can't handle.

It's not a waste of money to create a signature design that will identify OKC. Many large cities across the world are immediately known by an iconic building. It's good advertisement.

Devon Tower??


Well that depends, Are we building for now or the future? Is the 735 rooms already economically feasible, or is it already being built for the next 10-20 years? If the 735 rooms is feasible now, why don't we anticipate for future growth?

Full disclosure, I haven't seen the consultant's full report. But I imagine that it accounts for future growth. The southern part of the CC site would be good for any needed expansion. Ft. Worth is our closest peer city in terms of conventions and they got a hotel with considerably less room count than what we are asking for. The hotel there only seems larger because it is attached to a high rise condo.

I tend to agree that a slightly scaled down version of the Nashville development is probably most likely for OKC.

Devon Tower??


The Devon Tower is a cool tower, especially for a city as small as OKC, but it isn't iconic other than the fact it's the only real skyscraper downtown. If there is one thing in OKC that is iconic it is the Skydance Bridge. The Convention Hotel needs to be engineered in such a way that it stands out in one way or another. It needs to be eye catching as does the convention center itself. I would like to see an elaborate LED scheme on it like the Omni in Dallas as part of the equation. I would like to see a lot of height but I don't think height is an absolute necessity as long as there is something unique about it. The convention center is going to basically be OKC's "living room." I think it is worth going the extra mile to do it right.

Devon Tower??
Wow. If that tower is our iconic tower, than what a pathetic bar we have set for ourselves. We need every new tower to try and become iconic so everything we get is better than the last.

Was the Devon it? Was that what we wanted for so long, now that we got it, we can lower our bar again?

The Devon Tower stands out because it is the only real skyscraper downtown. Put that in Dallas or Houston, it'd fade in with the rest of the buildings.

^ Devon Tower would probably fade in from some angles in both cities, but it would be the 3rd tallest building in both downtown Dallas and downtown Houston. And what do you mean by "real skyscraper"? There is no absolute definition of a skyscraper.

4. Omni Nashville -- 800 rooms, 21 floors, 269 feet, $250 million -- probably in-line with what OKC will be getting

http://www.omnihotels.com/-/media/images/hotels/bnadtn/hotel/bnadtn-omni-nashville-hotel-exterior-retail.jpg?h=660&la=en&w=1170

I agree. Convention center hotels on their own aren't very tall in most large cities with major convention power. I wouldn't expect great height for OKC in my opinion.

Plutonic Panda it is definitely small town thinking...

If you build a competitive 700 plus room hotel that is booked for a large convention that may require a block of 400-500 rooms that doesn't leave much wiggle room; therefore, you don't hold that advantage over neighbor cities like Dallas, Denver or Houston.

Situated in the middle of the country, we are the crossroads city (I-35/I-40) interchange) of the United States--take advantage of this.

OKC will need a large hotel if we want to compete for conventions which could attract convention blocks of 300 to 500 rooms on any given night. Get away from these small-town plans if you want your airport to grow to mini-hub status.

Most large conventions want to house all of their conventioneers in the same venue. A plus for OKC if you have the facilities to accommodate large gathering without the use of shuttle service to other hotels to your convention center. We could attract large blocks of conventions where Houston & Dallas are overbooked which results in the use of nearby hotels.

You want to be prepared for growth--take advantage of what Dallas & Houston can't handle.

You should be more realistic. One 700 room hotel isn't going to come anywhere close to giving OKC an advantage over Dallas, Houston or Denver.

You should be more realistic. One 700 room hotel isn't going to come anywhere close to giving OKC an advantage over Dallas, Houston or Denver.

We already have an advantage when it comes to convention groups. The have told us that. we just do not have anyplace for them to stay.

In the early 2000s people said the city would never be able to support an NBA team.

I am calling BS on this comment. This might have been said by people outside OKC but I dare anyone to find a single person in OKC who said this. If Civic Leaders and the public at-large though this then why the hell was an NBA/NHL arena part of MAPS I in 1994 - planning for which started in 1992?

Okay, now back to a 1,000 room 50 story convention hotel with so much exterior lighting it can be seen from space.

I am calling BS on this comment. This might have been said by people outside OKC but I dare anyone to find a single person in OKC who said this. If Civic Leaders and the public at-large though this then why the hell was an NBA/NHL arena part of MAPS I in 1994 - planning for which started in 1992?

A lot of people were thinking the NHL being that OKC was a pretty big minor league hockey town in those days. The NBA however is a significantly bigger deal. In addition, those were aspirations of civic leaders and were significantly more optimistic than the general public at large was back then.

OKC is a perfect fit to be a convention city that pulls above its weight in that area if only it had adequate facilities.

I am calling BS on this comment. This might have been said by people outside OKC but I dare anyone to find a single person in OKC who said this. If Civic Leaders and the public at-large though this then why the hell was an NBA/NHL arena part of MAPS I in 1994 - planning for which started in 1992?

Okay, now back to a 1,000 room 50 story convention hotel with so much exterior lighting it can be seen from space.

We were pursuing the NHL. THAT was what the city leaders thought we had a chance at. I am sure you knew that, of course.

We were pursuing the NHL. THAT was what the city leaders thought we had a chance at. I am sure you knew that, of course.

Dateline 1992



City Plans Netting NBA Franchise; Arena Due Study

Norick, former general manager of the Oklahoma City Stars hockey team, said attracting an existing NBA team is much more likely than nabbing an expansion team. An NHL team is less likely than landing an NBA team, he said.

City Plans Netting NBA Franchise; Arena Due Study | News OK (http://newsok.com/city-plans-netting-nba-franchise-arena-due-study/article/2383994)

OKC has the luxury of building this Convention Hotel with plenty of room and plenty of resources ( not unlimited ) but available. So why would we want to build this as a "moderate structure with moderate appeal " ? If I am the developer ( Omni / Hyatt / Marriott / Hard Rock ) why would I want to have moderate when I can have " Always Impressive & Signature " ? If I am a city, who wants to gain attention, draw larger events, draw larger industry trade shows, why would we want to ever have to question available space ? .....There is no need to end up with a moderate structure here.

The larger the events, the more excitement & interest that comes to OKC as a place of intrigue, the more they will want to be here. We need to market our "CITY" as fully capable to handle ALL events. When they see us on TV with The Thunder, it should be "Wow, what is going on in OKC.....??? The DEVON Tower set the standard, Project 180 brings it all to life, and now we need to continue to meet that standard.

Let's grow the pie for all.

You should be more realistic. One 700 room hotel isn't going to come anywhere close to giving OKC an advantage over Dallas, Houston or Denver.

Correct, but it can give an advantage over Tulsa, Wichita, Omaha, Little Rock, and perhaps even Kansas City, in some respects.
This is another project that I think needs to be pursued as soon as legally possible. The potential for the area, the potential events this could draw, etc. are too innumerable right now.

That's why I also think it's critical that this project be maximized to it's fullest potential in every aspect, from scale, to design. It could be the next cornerstone of not only downtown, but for OKC in general. Just the potential impact something like this could have on the immediate area alone will make it worth it.

OKC has the luxury of building this Convention Hotel with plenty of room and plenty of resources ( not unlimited ) but available. So why would we want to build this as a "moderate structure with moderate appeal " ? If I am the developer ( Omni / Hyatt / Marriott / Hard Rock ) why would I want to have moderate when I can have " Always Impressive & Signature " ? If I am a city, who wants to gain attention, draw larger events, draw larger industry trade shows, why would we want to ever have to question available space ? .....There is no need to end up with a moderate structure here.

The larger the events, the more excitement & interest that comes to OKC as a place of intrigue, the more they will want to be here. We need to market our "CITY" as fully capable to handle ALL events. When they see us on TV with The Thunder, it should be "Wow, what is going on in OKC.....??? The DEVON Tower set the standard, Project 180 brings it all to life, and now we need to continue to meet that standard.

Let's grow the pie for all.

Once again I agree with you. It is almost as if you and I are the same person. :wink: I had to throw that in because several posters have made though accusations. I agree with all the above that this is something that OKC must not cheap out on. The CC and CC Hotel need to make statement. It would be a great back drop to the arena, Clayco and 499 Sheridan not to mention flow into the park and Sky Bridge. It needs to be OKC's advertisement to the world for those watching on TV, driving by on I-40 and even I-35. Word needs to and will spread this this place is cool and good for conventions. DT will be cool, the park and MBG will be nice, and BT will be better than ever.

I think they should go 750 with small print and good height and if they need more space, they can build another tower with perhaps some residential mixed in next to it. This is really a big thing and needs to be grand. It will be what many visitors talk about and make a difference in how many other conventions come here. Think about his for a second. If a big convention comes here and are blown away by this and the things going on down there, will they go tell others and most likely want to return again? On the other hand if they come here and it is just ok, nothing terrible but nothing too spectacular, they will most likely not want to return or at least not as likely. The feed back will be "well it was ok" which is not what we are looking for in this case.

Can you glass half empty posters not see that? Can our leaders not see this or realize the importance of this? As I mentioned earlier, we have lost over a BILLION dollars in the local economy over the past few years because of not having a new convention center. If this is done right, it attracts visitors, and DT, BT, the park and all business win. More money into the economy means the city wins. I think a huge effort needs to be made now by everyone to flood the city council, mayor, or whoever to let them know just how important this CC and CC Hotel is and how it needs to make a statement. I urge someone to post something like this in Steve's Chat this Friday so it will be seen by many people. It can perhaps result billions of dollars if they go big, or potentially lose billions if they cheap out to save a few dollars. I do understand the reasoning for not over building up to a 1000 at this time, but 750 should be good with a small print and height to allow them to add another tower if needed a few years down the road. If the demand is there, they could implement plans sooner perhaps for a second tower with some residential.

As I mentioned earlier, we have lost over a BILLION dollars in the local economy over the past few years because of not having a new convention center.

I am going to ask this nicely - are you crazy?

Who exactly lost $1 billion? If convention centers were profitable the private sector would build them (see Disney and Las Vegas).

I am going to ask this nicely - are you crazy?

Who exactly lost $1 billion? If convention centers were profitable the private sector would build them (see Disney and Las Vegas).

OKC missed out on $1 billion because it could not host conventions it could have if there was an adequate facility here. The benefit is not only with the convention center itself, but the money and business exposure the conventions bring to the city.

We will get a nice, quality full service hotel that will fill the needs of the convention center.

Whether or not it is some gaudy monstrosity that blinds people on I40 will be dependent on how much the city wants to subsidize. More money for this hotel means less money for OGE Plaza, First National Bank Tower, or the many other projects that either have or will request TIF funds or other subsidies. It is a zero sum game. Of course, if a hotelier wants to build a giant glowing phallus with their own money, then I'm all for it. But that's not how these things work, typically.

Personally, when I go to conventions, a hotel is just a place to lay my head. It and of itself is not the attraction. What will make or break people's opinion of OKC will not be the hotel.

Personally, when I go to conventions, a hotel is just a place to lay my head. It and of itself is not the attraction. What will make or break people's opinion of OKC will not be the hotel.

True, but the hotel can certainly play a part in the urban fabric in promoting an vibrant feel downtown. The Marriott in Kansas City is a perfect example. The hotel itself is adequate but it isn't that extravagant. The lighting scheme though, as seen from the plaza, is quite impressive. The lighting scheme also sometimes displays messages welcoming whatever convention is in town or displaying Royals/Chiefs scores. It would be awesome to see something like that here.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7_ysq8u57s

OKC missed out on $1 billion because it could not host conventions it could have if there was an adequate facility here. The benefit is not only with the convention center itself, but the money and business exposure the conventions bring to the city.

Can you cite a source for this?

Can you cite a source for this?

If you go back in the CC thread and read some previous posts you can see this. A city council person has been keeping a log on reasons why they passed on OKC. He would account for the reasons why and the amount of people. He stated in 2012 that in the past 6 years OKC had lost almost a billion dollars due to inadequate CC and CC Hotel. They basically said thanks but no thanks and the money went elsewhere. JTF, I don't why you are so opposed to this and see the big picture? Do you think we should even be in the situation we are in now with a 40 year old CC that has no hotel space? This is something that needs to be a signature statement for OKC.

I am sure you are a nice guy, but this is getting depressing that you don't think highly enough of OKC to understand this. If you go back and look at your many posts, it is soooo often a counter to someone else's post to debate it and offer your opinion. Sadly, that opinion is mostly a reason on why we can't instead of lets get stuff done. I bet your a cool guy but just lighten up, take a load off, and change that mentality a little bit. I sometimes take it too far at times to a fault but my intentions are sincere. I still have that wrestling pit bull mentality at times and have to reign it in when it comes to things I believe in. I like to focus and get things done, sooner than later and hate excuses of why we can't get things done. I hate the "being average mentality" and think we should all at least strive to have the "lets be great" mentality.

^ you are correct. We are losing a lot of business because we can not house these groups together. I am somewhat involved in this industry and hear this first hand every month.

Can you cite a source for this?

I can cite at least personal experience. I moved my convention from OKC to Midwest City a few years back, largely due to available rooms and space. While we were still in the city, an economic study done on my convention put our economic impact well in the 6 figure range. And we are a smaller convention all things considered (<2000 attendees).

We already have an advantage when it comes to convention groups. The have told us that. we just do not have anyplace for them to stay.

Over smaller markets, sure. Not over Dallas, Houston or Denver.

Over smaller markets, sure. Not over Dallas, Houston or Denver.

For Pete's sake (not our Pete), can you stop comparing us to those cities? They are huge areas that very few can compete against. Like BChris said, we need to crush cities like Tulsa, Wichita, LR, and even beat out cities like KC. We should be trying to get national exposure as well as regional exposure to come here because it is cool, fun, and a great place fora convention. We need to try to be so aggressive that we can barely meet demand and need to grow and add more hotel space. We should try to fill all those gates and then some due to increased air traffic coming into the city. We should build a rail from WRWA to DT- (I think that would be amazing) to attract even more and be impressive enough to perhaps get a mini hub of some sort. This is what I think needs to happen. We won't ever be Dallas, won't ever have a DFW airport, but we can aim for the stars and get as close as we possibly can with no regrets.

okay - so we should expect at least a $1 billion increase in convention business in the 6 years after it opens?

Can you cite a source for this?

Here's bchris02's source:


According to that log, since 2007, Oklahoma City has missed out on events that would have had a combined economic impact of about $1 billion.

Source: Can A $250M Convention Center Bring Big Business To OKC? - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/25397287/can-a-250m-convention-center-bring-big-business-to-okc)

I would hope the project turns out like Cleveland's new convention hotel, though hopefully closer to the 750+ room count.

Hilton Brand
32 stories
600 rooms
$272MM
10057

Interiors of the new Cuyahoga County convention hotel will strive for an authentic sense of place | cleveland.com (http://www.cleveland.com/architecture/index.ssf/2014/08/interiors_proposed_for_the_new.html)

okay - so we should expect at least a $1 billion increase in convention business in the 6 years after it opens?

Really? How can such a smart guy ask such a stupid question? No one said that, although it is more than possible since that money is long gone. Perhaps it will approach that number who knows? You can be the biggest pessimist all you want. You can make your case that this CC and CC Hotel won't bring in as much money as we think it will. That is all subjective, but what is objective and true is that OKC has and is currently losing out on LOTS of money because of our current situation. Every day that passes by is another day of lost revenue, those are JTF (just the facts). I am trying to be nice, but you are making it difficult. Your counter posts to debate and reject so many posters is pretty uncool. How about you go get yourself a glass of half full water today and the rest of this week. I promise you it will taste better than that glass half empty stuff your putting in your body.

I would hope the project turns out like Cleveland's new convention hotel, though hopefully closer to the 750+ room count.

Hilton Brand
32 stories
600 rooms
$272MM
10057

Interiors of the new Cuyahoga County convention hotel will strive for an authentic sense of place | cleveland.com (http://www.cleveland.com/architecture/index.ssf/2014/08/interiors_proposed_for_the_new.html)

I like feel this project has.

If Cleveland can do something like this, OKC certainly can. Our economy compared to theirs is like night and day.

If Cleveland can do something like this, OKC certainly can. Our economy compared to theirs is like night and day.

Cleveland is so much larger though it's beyond comparison. OKC will be somewhat limited because of its size. That said I really hope something like Cleveland's hotel can be pulled off. OKC should really try to edge out its peers with this.

Never mind - this is the hotel thread, not the convention center itself thread. However, let me say that I support both a new convention center and convention hotel - I don't know how anyone can still think otherwise because I have only said it a thousand times. What I am opposed to is being lied to by the Chamber with these flat-out ridiculous economic arguments. It should have been sold as a quality of life issue from the beginning.

If iconic buildings are like those in the photos posted by PluPan, I think I hate iconic buildings. What is people's obsession with obnoxious blinding lights about? Why does that keep coming up in OKCTalk discussions? Are some people so overstimulated these days that they are bored unless their eyes are being assaulted by bright flashing lights as they walk around town? Lights aren't what give a city character or tell the world that we have a lot to offer. Garishness and ostentatiousness can push away many intelligent and talented people we might want to attract to OKC. Nobody wants to live at a carnival.