That's not even an option. Never has been, nor will it be.

It was just language used by ES to scare the people of OKC into thinking it was an option. $50 million is the most I ever heard from anyone except for ES.

Is there a chance a developer would want to come along and like the Plaza in NYC build condos on the top several floors? Has that been done anywhere else recently?

The Ritz Carlton in downtown LA was just developed very successfully in this manner.

The Hyatt Regency is a bad example because it was built in 1976. The Sheraton started construction in 2006 and opened in 2008 so that is not a bad example.

Is there a chance a developer would want to come along and like the Plaza in NYC build condos on the top several floors? Has that been done anywhere else recently?

Yes - Omni Ft Worth. I do not get Red River envy very often, but I like this place a lot.

Downtown Fort Worth Condos | Ft. Worth Luxury Condominiums - 1301 Throckmorton (http://www.1301throckmorton.com/residences.html)

6901

I like this

http://media.miamiherald.com/smedia/2013/05/16/19/57/5SwOl.Em.56.jpeg

New Miami-Dade convention center hotel

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/05/16/3401657/massive-new-convention-center.html


A big player in downtown Miami development has solidified plans to build a major, privately financed convention center topped by a massive, 1,800-room hotel — the largest in South Florida — on the site of the demolished Miami Arena.

MDM Group confirmed Thursday it has a contract to purchase the old arena site from the developers of the larger Miami World Center, a long-planned mixed-use project that would take up several blocks in the Park West district west of Biscayne Boulevard downtown. Terms were not disclosed.

MDM and its architects also released a rendering and a video, posted on You Tube, of a swooping, cascading, three-legged Marriott hotel tower rising over a huge podium containing the 500,000-square-foot convention center, a 1,500-seat theater, and a 2,300-car garage partly buried under ground.

So obviously ours would be bit smaller, but we should go for a cool design like this one. I hope it is taller then 25 stories as well.

Yes - Omni Ft Worth. I do not get Red River envy very often, but I like this place a lot.

Downtown Fort Worth Condos | Ft. Worth Luxury Condominiums - 1301 Throckmorton (http://www.1301throckmorton.com/residences.html)

6901

Interesting. Looks like the pricing is $329,000 for 1bed, 1 bath condo, 873 square feet. $625,000 for 2/2, 1547 and $549,000 for 2/2.5, 1697. Not too terribly outrageous.

By comparison, there are Block 42 townhomes for sale, both for $420,000 with 2/3 or 2/2.5. Two Brownstones for sale for $600,000 for 2/3, 2700 and several homes in The Hill for sale over $800,000.

Omni is the convention center hotel in FTW and Dallas (and several others). That added to their experience with combining hotel and condo concierge operations makes them a great candidate for an OKC CC hotel with residential on the upper floors.

Is there a chance a developer would want to come along and like the Plaza in NYC build condos on the top several floors? Has that been done anywhere else recently?

The Grand Hyatt in San Antonio that was built over their convention center has condo levels on top. They're called The Alteza and range from 803 sq.ft. 1 bed 1 bath flats to 6252 sq.ft. penthouses.

I really hope a convention center hotel is built but I guess we can talk more about that once we know if the actual convention center is going to get derailed by ES and his supporters. Do we have any idea how close OKC is to closing on the land for the CC?

I haven't heard a word about that lately. I am still holding on to a shred of hope the site will be changed to south of the arena backing up to EK Gaylord along the BNSF line and opening toward the park or boulevard. Tiny shred I know..... but maybe. (I still like the rendering BG918 shared quite a while back better than any other proposal.)

I haven't heard a word about that lately. I am still holding on to a shred of hope the site will be changed to south of the arena backing up to EK Gaylord along the BNSF line and opening toward the park or boulevard. Tiny shred I know..... but maybe. (I still like the rendering BG918 shared quite a while back better than anything other proposal.)

I liked the original Core to Shore with the CC on that spot as well, but I actually like the new location as long as they stick with the configuration where it is not just a huge wall on all side (i.e. the Cox Convention Center). The idea of the having the larger contiguous space underground and some sort of pedestrian area between the hotel and the smaller meeting space actually appeals to me.

Let's say the make an offer on the land and it is accepted by the summer. Can they start building the CC so the petition is null since construction has already started? The City Council would have to agree to it of course, but is it possible?

I've no idea - good question though. Hopefully someone will know the answer and enlighten me.

Is a Hyatt Regency or Sheraton in the cards for a downtown Oklahoma City convention center hotel?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9b/HyattRegencyPhoenix.JPG

gah!

Hopefully we could do better than that. It looks like a government building.

gah!

Hopefully we could do better than that. It looks like a government building.

But but but - it has the NFL logo on it!! It must be cool right?

I liked the original Core to Shore with the CC on that spot as well, but I actually like the new location as long as they stick with the configuration where it is not just a huge wall on all side (i.e. the Cox Convention Center). The idea of the having the larger contiguous space underground and some sort of pedestrian area between the hotel and the smaller meeting space actually appeals to me.

Let's say the make an offer on the land and it is accepted by the summer. Can they start building the CC so the petition is null since construction has already started? The City Council would have to agree to it of course, but is it possible?

You can't start a MAPS project until you have all the money to complete it in the bank. That's one of the reason some of the projects have stages. Because you can complete stage 1 without having to have the money for all stages. Once they start building the CC, they pretty much have to finish it, so they can't stage the construction. They don't even have a design yet so the answer is pretty much, "no", if Shadid really has his 6,000 signatures and they're legit.

Dr. Shadid received 15,739 votes in the mayoral election; a 6,000 signature petition recall probably won't be difficult for his supporters.

If the convention center is recalled; an election will probably take place March 2015 at the earliest? It is my understanding that Dr. Shadid's council seat (April, 2011) will come up for an April 2015 election. Any ward council seat elections could be held concurrently with a possible convention center recall. Let's hope the city can get started on the convention center within a year or ASAP.

As some posters have mentioned; it would set a bad precedent to begin recalling MAPS items which were approved by the voters. If Dr. Shadid continues to push against the convention center (he approved) with a costly recall election next year; any delays will be costly for eventually getting a new convention center drafted.

We're going to need a new convention center and not just for local graduations, gathering and proms which recirculates money already in our economy. The city needs to stay on the executive radar for potential corporate expansion & relocation. National & regional conventions bring executives and conventioneers drawing out-of-state money into our local economy with an infusion of new currency for our city through hotels, transportation, food, lodging, retail sales etc...

The FOP needs to be careful about supporting anyone against growth of our city. Facilities will need security which use additional police; those off duty police working security jobs.

Comments & corrections are welcomed with any updates pertaining to the above mentioned data as my memory is not what it use to be.


http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif

Dr. Shadid is probably going to be even more motivated to stop the convention center now, because it's his only way of staying meaningful to a lot of the voters and keep himself in the public eye. He does, however, put his Council seat at risk by so doing, because his ward was decidedly pro-MAPS. And one of the problems with his campaign was precisely the reason I didn't think Mick should debate him. He was continually throwing out different untruths and he can change subjects on a dime. It's like whack-a-mole: disprove one thing and he's on to another subject. However, with a one-issue vote, everything he says will be examined under a microscope and any falsehoods will be easy to identify. He's going to have to try to win this one on the truth, as only his followers will listen to him and not question, and maybe not all of them. He'll get the anti-tax people too, but I'm not sure either of those groups are much different than the anti-MAPS people in the last MAPS election.

However, what's true for Shadid is also true for the city and the Chamber. They're going to have to be honest with the voters or risk losing them. And that may mean not selling them on pie-in-the-sky promises on economics. It might put the Convention Center expansion (phase II) at risk as well. Less so the hotel, I think, as long as they're not financing the whole thing. Since we've never had a high end chain hotel in this city, you can probably sell people on the glamour of that, as long as it's just an incentive we provide. But regardless, a CC phase II would require a MAPS 4 or 5. There will be a lot of new voters when that happens anyway, so probably best for them not to even talk about an expansion.

My son promised me that once he got his internship secured, he would look at the convention center and convention center hotel articles from Heywood Sanders and analyze the data. He decided not to take a consulting internship and is doing something with Google, so is not going to be quite as motivated, but I'm holding him to that promise. Since he goes to the U. of Chicago, they've got a pretty rigorous mathematical background and I'm going to be interested in his analysis. If I get anything interesting from him, I'll share it.

Oklahoma City is at the threshold of becoming a solid market with potential for more growth. We saw Charlotte and Nashville go this through these stages in the early 90s where their metro populations exceeded 1 million. Twenty-plus years later Charlotte boast 2.2 million & Nashville 1.7 million.

Oklahoma City has an advantage because MAPS I jump-started our economy. We are a unique community because we invested in ourselves. Word is getting out about the make-over of Oklahoma City--the magazines are telling our story and placing us in the company of some of the more progressive cities in the U.S.

We're on the radar as this is evident with recent announcements by Boeing & General Electric. As we continue our momentum--there will be more announcements and developmental growth about our city as we become a competing city.

The energy companies are making our area attractive as talent is brought to the city; our unemployment numbers reflect this trend. Our hospitality industry is on the rise with the rapid growth of our area hotels. OU Medical research park (formerly Presbyterian) in getting poised for new growth & development.

We need to continue to keep our home grown talent here as well as attracting talented professionals from other states--that's the key to sustained growth.

It is going to become important that we build up Will Rogers to where we can have more destinations added to our airport instead of having to channel through magnet airports like Dallas' DFW & Southwest Airlines.

Oklahoma largest airports: Oklahoma City Will Rogers & Tulsa International have been funneling traffic to mega airports in Dallas (via OKC) and Kansas City (via Tulsa) where they can connect to other destinations not offered at either of Oklahoma's major airports. If Will Rogers continues to build and pull some of the traffic Kansas City is getting from Tulsa with more direct & non stop routes out of Will Rogers instead of our people going 200 miles to Dallas and Tulsa connecting 200 miles to Kansas City--our city will boom.

Oklahoma City saw some recent expansion of $100 million in the first decade of 2000 with another $70 million of expansion planned for 2015. We're slowly getting there.

Oklahoma City needs to position and brace for growth.

The convention center & hotel will attract the intangibles you can't always measure. It's like the investment yield from the first MAPS that gave our city the shot-in-the arm to immune ourselves from the vices of the Grapes of Wrath image it has taken us so long to shake. Marketing our cities is on-going and the convention center & hotel will pay more dividend as executives get that 'feel good image' that we are ready and ripe for business & industry's expansion and relocation.

Let's build that convention center & hotel because our investment will be returned; much like what we have already experienced with the original MAPS.


http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif

I agree that the convention center and hotel are key to taking growth in OKC to the next level. That's why it baffles me so many people think the Cox Center is good enough.

Oklahoma City is at the threshold of becoming a solid market with potential for more growth. We saw Charlotte and Nashville go this through these stages in the early 90s where their metro populations exceeded 1 million. Twenty-plus years later Charlotte boast 2.2 million & Nashville 1.7 million.

Oklahoma City has an advantage because MAPS I jump-started our economy. We are a unique community because we invested in ourselves. Word is getting out about the make-over of Oklahoma City--the magazines are telling our story and placing us in the company of some of the more progressive cities in the U.S.

We're on the radar as this is evident with recent announcements by Boeing & General Electric. As we continue our momentum--there will be more announcements and developmental growth about our city as we become a competing city.

The energy companies are making our area attractive as talent is brought to the city; our unemployment numbers reflect this trend. Our hospitality industry is on the rise with the rapid growth of our area hotels. OU Medical research park (formerly Presbyterian) in getting poised for new growth & development.

We need to continue to keep our home grown talent here as well as attracting talented professionals from other states--that's the key to sustained growth.

It is going to become important that we build up Will Rogers to where we can have more destinations added to our airport instead of having to channel through magnet airports like Dallas' DFW & Southwest Airlines.

Oklahoma largest airports: Oklahoma City Will Rogers & Tulsa International have been funneling traffic to mega airports in Dallas (via OKC) and Kansas City (via Tulsa) where they can connect to other destinations not offered at either of Oklahoma's major airports. If Will Rogers continues to build and pull some of the traffic Kansas City is getting from Tulsa with more direct & non stop routes out of Will Rogers instead of our people going 200 miles to Dallas and Tulsa connecting 200 miles to Kansas City--our city will boom.

Oklahoma City saw some recent expansion of $100 million in the first decade of 2000 with another $70 million of expansion planned for 2015. We're slowly getting there.

Oklahoma City needs to position and brace for growth.

The convention center & hotel will attract the intangibles you can't always measure. It's like the investment yield from the first MAPS that gave our city the shot-in-the arm to immune ourselves from the vices of the Grapes of Wrath image it has taken us so long to shake. Marketing our cities is on-going and the convention center & hotel will pay more dividend as executives get that 'feel good image' that we are ready and ripe for business & industry's expansion and relocation.

Let's build that convention center & hotel because our investment will be returned; much like what we have already experienced with the original MAPS.


http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif

Very well put!

I agree that the convention center and hotel are key to taking growth in OKC to the next level. That's why it baffles me so many people think the Cox Center is good enough.

Good question. The cox center was good for us in the early 70's when it was built because it was all that we had and needed at the time. This is a different city that it was 50 years ago and it does not meet our needs today. It is more arena than convention center. Hopefully we have enough vision and leadership to build a new cc and tear down the cox center.

I thought the Cox Center was good enough until I went in it.

I felt the same about a small motel in northwest OK once .... once.

Oklahoma City is at the threshold of becoming a solid market with potential for more growth. We saw Charlotte and Nashville go this through these stages in the early 90s where their metro populations exceeded 1 million. Twenty-plus years later Charlotte boast 2.2 million & Nashville 1.7 million.

Oklahoma City has an advantage because MAPS I jump-started our economy. We are a unique community because we invested in ourselves. Word is getting out about the make-over of Oklahoma City--the magazines are telling our story and placing us in the company of some of the more progressive cities in the U.S.

We're on the radar as this is evident with recent announcements by Boeing & General Electric. As we continue our momentum--there will be more announcements and developmental growth about our city as we become a competing city.

The energy companies are making our area attractive as talent is brought to the city; our unemployment numbers reflect this trend. Our hospitality industry is on the rise with the rapid growth of our area hotels. OU Medical research park (formerly Presbyterian) in getting poised for new growth & development.

We need to continue to keep our home grown talent here as well as attracting talented professionals from other states--that's the key to sustained growth.

It is going to become important that we build up Will Rogers to where we can have more destinations added to our airport instead of having to channel through magnet airports like Dallas' DFW & Southwest Airlines.

Oklahoma largest airports: Oklahoma City Will Rogers & Tulsa International have been funneling traffic to mega airports in Dallas (via OKC) and Kansas City (via Tulsa) where they can connect to other destinations not offered at either of Oklahoma's major airports. If Will Rogers continues to build and pull some of the traffic Kansas City is getting from Tulsa with more direct & non stop routes out of Will Rogers instead of our people going 200 miles to Dallas and Tulsa connecting 200 miles to Kansas City--our city will boom.

Oklahoma City saw some recent expansion of $100 million in the first decade of 2000 with another $70 million of expansion planned for 2015. We're slowly getting there.

Oklahoma City needs to position and brace for growth.

The convention center & hotel will attract the intangibles you can't always measure. It's like the investment yield from the first MAPS that gave our city the shot-in-the arm to immune ourselves from the vices of the Grapes of Wrath image it has taken us so long to shake. Marketing our cities is on-going and the convention center & hotel will pay more dividend as executives get that 'feel good image' that we are ready and ripe for business & industry's expansion and relocation.

Let's build that convention center & hotel because our investment will be returned; much like what we have already experienced with the original MAPS.


http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif Laramie, I love your posts, keep em coming!

Hopefully, the city can get back to business as usual; maybe Dr. Shadid will put the brakes on this recall of the new convention center.


http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif

I agree that the convention center and hotel are key to taking growth in OKC to the next level. That's why it baffles me so many people think the Cox Center is good enough.it's almost kind of scary

I thought the Cox Center was good enough until I went in it.

That was precisely my reaction. I was against the Convention Center being part of MAPS 3, but no more. I went a couple of meetings there and walk through it on my way to Thunder games. It's bad and the exterior is worse.

Barring untimely cancellations, by the time the Cox is replaced, it will be nearly 50 years old. Can you imagine the delay if the CC process is derailed and it takes us years of duking it out with public opinion and the naysayers to get funding for a replacement (if it gets killed I don't see it ever appearing on a MAPS ballot again)? Remember it took/will have taken 25 years to finally get a streetcar back once it failed to make the MAPS 1 ballot.

Ironically, outside of a future MAPS situation, any future CC would probably have to be debt financed and never be able to pay for itself. So much better than the debt-free version we're about to get that won't have to worry about paying for itself.

Stop making sense.

I see the Convention Center issue being divided into 3 camps.

1) People who don't want a new convention center
2) People who do want a new convention center but at a different location
3) People who want the new convention center on the Ford site

I think the vast majority of people are in camp 2.

Yes - Omni Ft Worth. I do not get Red River envy very often, but I like this place a lot.

Downtown Fort Worth Condos | Ft. Worth Luxury Condominiums - 1301 Throckmorton (http://www.1301throckmorton.com/residences.html)

6901

The Omni would be my preference. The FTWorth is a perfect example of what could work for us as well.

Oklahoma City is at the threshold of becoming a solid market with potential for more growth. We saw Charlotte and Nashville go this through these stages in the early 90s where their metro populations exceeded 1 million. Twenty-plus years later Charlotte boast 2.2 million & Nashville 1.7 million.

Oklahoma City has an advantage because MAPS I jump-started our economy. We are a unique community because we invested in ourselves. Word is getting out about the make-over of Oklahoma City--the magazines are telling our story and placing us in the company of some of the more progressive cities in the U.S.

We're on the radar as this is evident with recent announcements by Boeing & General Electric. As we continue our momentum--there will be more announcements and developmental growth about our city as we become a competing city.

The energy companies are making our area attractive as talent is brought to the city; our unemployment numbers reflect this trend. Our hospitality industry is on the rise with the rapid growth of our area hotels. OU Medical research park (formerly Presbyterian) in getting poised for new growth & development.

We need to continue to keep our home grown talent here as well as attracting talented professionals from other states--that's the key to sustained growth.

It is going to become important that we build up Will Rogers to where we can have more destinations added to our airport instead of having to channel through magnet airports like Dallas' DFW & Southwest Airlines.

Oklahoma largest airports: Oklahoma City Will Rogers & Tulsa International have been funneling traffic to mega airports in Dallas (via OKC) and Kansas City (via Tulsa) where they can connect to other destinations not offered at either of Oklahoma's major airports. If Will Rogers continues to build and pull some of the traffic Kansas City is getting from Tulsa with more direct & non stop routes out of Will Rogers instead of our people going 200 miles to Dallas and Tulsa connecting 200 miles to Kansas City--our city will boom.

Oklahoma City saw some recent expansion of $100 million in the first decade of 2000 with another $70 million of expansion planned for 2015. We're slowly getting there.

Oklahoma City needs to position and brace for growth.

The convention center & hotel will attract the intangibles you can't always measure. It's like the investment yield from the first MAPS that gave our city the shot-in-the arm to immune ourselves from the vices of the Grapes of Wrath image it has taken us so long to shake. Marketing our cities is on-going and the convention center & hotel will pay more dividend as executives get that 'feel good image' that we are ready and ripe for business & industry's expansion and relocation.

Let's build that convention center & hotel because our investment will be returned; much like what we have already experienced with the original MAPS.


http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif

So very well said. The ROI will be measured in so many ways that can't be seen w/ a dollar value, but could be seen w/ smiles & pride for our community and state.

I saw that Louisville is getting an Omni hotel for their new convention center hotel. The descriptions sound pretty sweet, so we'll have to see how it turns out.

I see the Convention Center issue being divided into 3 camps.

1) People who don't want a new convention center
2) People who do want a new convention center but at a different location
3) People who want the new convention center on the Ford site

I think the vast majority of people are in camp 2.

I was in camp 2 until I saw the site plan and joined camp 3. My main concern that put me in camp 2 was that it would split up the two parks, but if we end up with something similar to the proposal it will look like a convention center inside one single park as opposed to one that separates two different parks. That would be a result I am perfectly fine with, and might even give us something a bit unique in the convention market (at least compared to the other convention centers I have been to [Anaheim, Moscone in San Fran, Philadelphia, Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas, there might be another I am forgetting]).

The convention center functions poorly in the south of Chesapeake location. By necessity the front door would be on the west side (loading docks on Shields). Additionally the convention hotel on the north end of the site would place the front door even further away from the CBD and the amenities that make it possible for OKC to over-perform as a convention market. The closest the front door of the convention center would be from Sheridan and Oklahoma (considered the zero corner) is 3/4 of a mile. That might not seem that far, but it would take close to 15 minutes EACH way by foot to get there, making lunches in Bricktown during conferences and conventions difficult if not impossible. It would also require convention-goers to cross major, high-speed and traffic corridors including the new boulevard, Reno and EK Gaylord to get into Bricktown, which is the amenity the CVB HAS to use to lure convention business to our little burg.

The convention business has a hard and fast rule; anything that exceeds a ten minute walk basically doesn't count. That is, all of the dining and entertainment amenities plus the recently-added hotel rooms in and around Bricktown really wouldn't be a factor when booking a convention, making OKC a MUCH weaker market for convention bookings and effectively wasting much of the effort we are putting into building a new convention center. Much has been discussed here about the various successes and failures of new convention centers and hotels in other cities, but one factor tends to unite the failures: poor location related to the respective city's amenities and hotel rooms.

Before someone brings up the streetcar as the solution, please keep in mind that we are talking about equipment that can move a hundred or so people at a time (vs. thousands that can be in attendance at a convention) on reasonably long headways, on a line that isn't even currently planned to touch the area immediately adjacent to the site in question.

As a marginal market from a national image perspective anyway, OKC needs to play to its strengths, which is a surprisingly dense and walkable variety of hotel rooms and entertainment options within a ten minute walk of the CC. Putting it in a place where it will encounter legitimate sales objections based on proximity would be a complete boondoggle from the word go. THIS is why the CC committee intervened when the assumption was being made that it would be in the south-of-Chesapeake location. The convention center BY FAR is more location-sensitive than any other MAPs 3 Project. Location is critical to its success. Talk about the lumberyard or east of ballpark (though it appears this has development activity) or wherever else you want, but I wish people would stop trying to shove the CC to a backwater location just because it isn't sexy enough for their tastes. Please drop the south of 'Peake location. It doesn't work for this project.

Urbanized, I've recently been thinking that the Streetcar as planned in the zeta route would give a benefit to the Ford site location based on the Bricktown connection it would provide. Do you think that I am being overly optimistic about that?

I don't think the south of the Chesapeake location is much farther away than the chosen location.

What about replacing the Bricktown Events Center?

I don't think the south of the Chesapeake location is much farther away than the chosen location.

What about replacing the Bricktown Events Center?

I don't think it is about the physical difference in distance but the mental difference. Instead of crossing one six lane street (EK Gaylord) to get to BT, they would have to cross two (EK Gaylord and the Boulevard). I put a marker on the SE/C of SW 3rd and Robinson (directly south of The Peake) and put walking directions to Spaghetti Warehouse and googlemaps said it would take 13 minutes and it was 0.6 miles. I then moved it to the SW/C of Reno and Robinson and it said it would take 10 minutes and it was 0.5 miles to go to the same destination. Again, I really hope they narrow EK Gaylord from the boulevard to at least Main Street from six to four lanes to make that area more pedestrian friendly.

The convention center functions poorly in the south of Chesapeake location. By necessity the front door would be on the west side (loading docks on Shields). Additionally the convention hotel on the north end of the site would place the front door even further away from the CBD and the amenities that make it possible for OKC to over-perform as a convention market. The closest the front door of the convention center would be from Sheridan and Oklahoma (considered the zero corner) is 3/4 of a mile. That might not seem that far, but it would take close to 15 minutes EACH way by foot to get there, making lunches in Bricktown during conferences and conventions difficult if not impossible. It would also require convention-goers to cross major, high-speed and traffic corridors including the new boulevard, Reno and EK Gaylord to get into Bricktown, which is the amenity the CVB HAS to use to lure convention business to our little burg.

The convention business has a hard and fast rule; anything that exceeds a ten minute walk basically doesn't count. That is, all of the dining and entertainment amenities plus the recently-added hotel rooms in and around Bricktown really wouldn't be a factor when booking a convention, making OKC a MUCH weaker market for convention bookings and effectively wasting much of the effort we are putting into building a new convention center. Much has been discussed here about the various successes and failures of new convention centers and hotels in other cities, but one factor tends to unite the failures: poor location related to the respective city's amenities and hotel rooms.

Before someone brings up the streetcar as the solution, please keep in mind that we are talking about equipment that can move a hundred or so people at a time (vs. thousands that can be in attendance at a convention) on reasonably long headways, on a line that isn't even currently planned to touch the area immediately adjacent to the site in question.

As a marginal market from a national image perspective anyway, OKC needs to play to its strengths, which is a surprisingly dense and walkable variety of hotel rooms and entertainment options within a ten minute walk of the CC. Putting it in a place where it will encounter legitimate sales objections based on proximity would be a complete boondoggle from the word go. THIS is why the CC committee intervened when the assumption was being made that it would be in the south-of-Chesapeake location. The convention center BY FAR is more location-sensitive than any other MAPs 3 Project. Location is critical to its success. Talk about the lumberyard or east of ballpark (though it appears this has development activity) or wherever else you want, but I wish people would stop trying to shove the CC to a backwater location just because it isn't sexy enough for their tastes. Please drop the south of 'Peake location. It doesn't work for this project.

I was pretty firm on preferring the south of the Chesapeake location until I read this. Still not crazy about the selected site, but my alternative certainly appears to have a couple of drawbacks. But if past MAPS projects are any indication, this will turn out pretty good after all the fussing is over and construction is complete.

I really hope once the CC is built, they rethink how the lights are done on the Robinson and Reno and Gaylord and Reno intersections. You will have hundreds of people crossing all at once to get to lunch and I hope there is a four way stop so people can cross whichever way they want and it is for a few minutes. Think about when a Thunder game gets out but with less people.

The convention center will be find at the old Ford Dealership location. Some tier II type conventions may need the Chesapeake Energy Arena as we move toward attracting and growing our convention tourism.

We need to make sure the new commuter rail goes through the convention center & hotel into Bricktown as well as expanding the Bricktown Canal to the convention center & hotel complex.

The study shows that we could support a 735-room hotel; let's hope we build something with a minimum of 1,000 rooms to allow for expansion. Our central location is a plus for any national assembly requiring travel. A $15 -$20 million incentive should put us on the radar for any hotel chain investing $150 -$200 million on building a hotel on the convention center complex. There is $30 million in a contingency fund where some of that money could be used for incentives.


http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif

That's why it baffles me so many people think the Cox Center is good enough.

The Cox Center (formerly the Myriad) looks better than it did before it was somewhat refurbished. I like that it's right on the street now instead of that huge setback. But the refurbish has been about 20 years ago. And it's just not large enough if we want to attract bigger and more conferences.

Hopefully someone who's been in the building a lot more recently than me can answer this. Is the main arena area used much at all? If so, what are it's uses. Was anything ever done to that or does it look the same as it did in the 70s?

The Cox Center (formerly the Myriad) looks better than it did before it was somewhat refurbished. I like that it's right on the street now instead of that huge setback. But the refurbish has been about 20 years ago. And it's just not large enough if we want to attract bigger and more conferences.

Hopefully someone who's been in the building a lot more recently than me can answer this. Is the main arena area used much at all? If so, what are it's uses. Was anything ever done to that or does it look the same as it did in the 70s?


https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQrnVa7n2kebePMjmWSbYgeiDyJZm9By bAJMYS71_WqraBU3PjC0w vs. https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQjXLxmFaiIw9G8WckbQhOAqZjMwdNEf PcrZB2qTKe4ngNCvgcR
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/145/354100558_a260c52eb7_z.jpg?zz=1

It's definitely not large enough if we want to attract bigger and more conferences. Twenty years since it has been refurbished--the interior looks kind of gloomy--like those 1980 mortuaries, the type of carpet you would roll out a casket upon. We can definitely do much better.



https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608036166524603048&pid=15.1
The main arena is used occasionally when the convention usually brings a trade show or competition along with it. Example: Red Earth.

This should really sum up the need for a new convention center:


Hoping for progress on new convention center

"Nowhere else in Oklahoma is there a suitable convention center for trade shows and events of our size. The 100,000 square feet at the Cox Convention Center as well as the management and staff have helped grow the show well...

With the new convention center, more shows of this size and capacity could locate to Oklahoma City, continuing the city's upward trajectory of growth. These conventions and events funnel revenue to Bricktown and the surrounding districts that have grown up in the past 10 years. What starts in the core of the city will ripple out to the surrounding communities. Attendees, vendors and speakers continue to compliment the city for the wide range of venues available close to downtown to entertain their clients during their time here.

The Oklahoma Indian Gaming Association and other organizations like it are eager to capitalize upon the growth in Oklahoma City, through the construction of world-class facilities like a new downtown convention center. We hope to see more progress toward its completion. I look forward to the day we can spread our wings along with the new convention center, downtown and the entire city."


http://oklahoman.com/hoping-for-progress-on-new-convention-center/article/3940974


http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif

Barring untimely cancellations, by the time the Cox is replaced, it will be nearly 50 years old. Can you imagine the delay if the CC process is derailed and it takes us years of duking it out with public opinion and the naysayers to get funding for a replacement (if it gets killed I don't see it ever appearing on a MAPS ballot again)? Remember it took/will have taken 25 years to finally get a streetcar back once it failed to make the MAPS 1 ballot.

Ironically, outside of a future MAPS situation, any future CC would probably have to be debt financed and never be able to pay for itself. So much better than the debt-free version we're about to get that won't have to worry about paying for itself.

It's not a bad thing to have a project galvanized by the need to pay for itself.

I'm not a naysayer, I'm just kind of playing devil's advocate with this question. Are conventions and trade shows still as big of a deal as they were in the 90s? I know trade shows like the Consumer Electronics Show have been downsizing and I'm just wondering if that's the trend now or if it's just a few select conventions.

I'm not a naysayer, I'm just kind of playing devil's advocate with this question. Are conventions and trade shows still as big of a deal as they were in the 90s? I know trade shows like the Consumer Electronics Show have been downsizing and I'm just wondering if that's the trend now or if it's just a few select conventions.

Not as big a deal. But people still have them.

For many (perhaps most) of them, OKC is immediately struck from the list of candidates. That's because we don't have a convention facility that is adequate for a city our size -- and for our ambitions. And while I agree it is likely the "windfall" predicted by convention center advocates is overstated, I see no way this convention center doesn't pay for itself within a few years. The money convention visitors spend is significant and well documented. If you do not work in an industry that caters to convention visitors, I can understand why you may be unaware of the impact these visitors have on our economy, and our SALES TAX, which is the primary way our city collects revenues for police, fire, parks, and myriad other services.

So, in summary, while I chuckle when the convention center is described as the "crown jewel" of MAPS 3, it will be a significant driver of revenues going forward, will enhance our city's image, and will serve both our citizens and new visitors well.

I went to a three day convention in Tulsa several years ago. Stayed at the Holiday Inn Express downtown. They gave us a cash allowance of $80 for meals during our stay. I think I ended up spending around $150.

I would be willing to be that if OKC does not build a proper Tier 2 convention center that Tulsa will. It will be a grave mistake to not build it in my opinion.

Not as big a deal. But people still have them.

For many (perhaps most) of them, OKC is immediately struck from the list of candidates. That's because we don't have a convention facility that is adequate for a city our size -- and for our ambitions. And while I agree it is likely the "windfall" predicted by convention center advocates is overstated, I see no way this convention center doesn't pay for itself within a few years. The money convention visitors spend is significant and well documented. If you do not work in an industry that caters to convention visitors, I can understand why you may be unaware of the impact these visitors have on our economy, and our SALES TAX, which is the primary way our city collects revenues for police, fire, parks, and myriad other services.

So, in summary, while I chuckle when the convention center is described as the "crown jewel" of MAPS 3, it will be a significant driver of revenues going forward, will enhance our city's image, and will serve both our citizens and new visitors well.

That's my hope, that a sufficient convention center will bring in new conventions which will put more visitors' money in our economy. I was just hoping we weren't playing catch up in a sector that was on its way out.

Concerning when they refurbed the Myriad, I know the style they chose for the interior was supposed to reflect Oklahoma and its landscape. IIRC, I believe the color palate was called something like Oklahoma Prairie or something goofy like that. I know the airport went with the same earth tones and theme with their recent refurb. I just hope that we can break away from that with new convention center and hotel. Not everything has to evoke our land or ecology. We don't want all the buildings that a visitor would walk in downtown to be a color palate of brown, tan, rust, and red. It's kind of in line with how 'they' feel like they have to call everything Oklahoma's own... News 9 has that slogan. When the Heartland Flyer came into existence there were billboards all over the city advertising it with big letters saying "Oklahoma's Own." Anytime there's a famous Oklahoman they are descibed as Oklahoma's own. Sorry for that tangent. It's a rant for another thread.

I'm not a naysayer, I'm just kind of playing devil's advocate with this question. Are conventions and trade shows still as big of a deal as they were in the 90s? I know trade shows like the Consumer Electronics Show have been downsizing and I'm just wondering if that's the trend now or if it's just a few select conventions.

Oil and gas conventions have generally been growing a lot over the last decade or so.


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Study looks at need for convention center hotel subsidies

Ben Felder
April 2nd, 2014

More study is underway in an effort to determine if the Oklahoma City Council should approve any type of public assistance for a new convention center hotel.

The council heard a presentation Tuesday from Tom Morsch, managing director of The PFM Group, an investment advisory firm performing a hotel feasibility study for the city. With a new convention center planned for Oklahoma City in the coming years as part of MAPS 3, the council has discussed what tax incentives might be needed to help build a large hotel.

“The task is now to take the study and take a look at the convention center as a whole and determine if a subsidy would be needed,” Morsch told the council. “We will look at the various ways communities do subsidies for convention centers.”

The council approved another $65,000 for PFM’s services to perform a financial analysis of whether a new hotel would require public assistance. The city has contracted with PFM since 2010.

Morsch said the results of the continued study could determine that any number of public assistance options are necessary, including city-backed bonds, donation of land or tax incentives.

“We will be taking a look at all those different forms for you,” Morsch said.

The council has spent considerable time in recent months discussing public assistance for a new convention center hotel and many councilors said more study was needed.

“We’ve all talked around the fringes of this,” Ward 6 Councilwoman Meg Salyer said. “I don’t feel that I know enough to make that type of decision right now.”

Ward 2 Councilman Ed Shadid was critical of previous convention center studies and said it was difficult to determine the need for a new hotel since projected convention center traffic was not broken down by type of guests.

“[Projected] attendance at the convention center includes city meetings and Barons games,” Shadid said. “It would be helpful to breakdown that data by events?”

The results of the study are expected this summer, Morsch said, and the next step would be to talk with interested developers.

Oklahoma Gazette News: Study looks at need for convention center hotel subsidies (http://okgazette.com/oklahoma/article-20893-study-looks-at-need-for-convention-center-hotel-subsidies.html)

How do Barons games have anything to do with (future) convention center atendance?

How do Barons games have anything to do with (future) convention center atendance?

He is asking if the convention numbers projected include past performance of our current convention center, and if the future projections include numbers which are inflated by Baron attendance, which would not be attended at the future convention center.

Basically if they are extrapolating the entire number, or only extrapolating attendance from events that would be compatible with the new conventions center.

I think Ed isn't thinking outside the box.

I think Ed isn't thinking outside the box.

I like nothing about the man. But he is asking the right question on this specific item. Baron games will not be attended at the new convention center, so it makes sense to not include them in projections using past data (which may include Barons attendance data)

Regardless, that'd be like having conventions in the Chesapeake Arena and averaging that attendence in with Thunder game attendences. Just saying Barons games shouldn't be included in any kind of attendence numbers.

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Regardless, that'd be like having conventions in the Chesapeake Arena and averaging that attendence in with Thunder game attendences. Just saying Barons games shouldn't be included in any kind of attendence numbers.

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I don't disagree. And that's exactly what he is saying. He's saying to make sure we don't include Barons attendance, and end up with an artificially inflated number.

Having a true convention center with larger space will give us the ability to host the larger groups. We currently are not in the running for bigger groups since we have a very small convention capacity. There is a lot of interest from groups but we just can not accommodate them. Bricktown is a great visitor destination that adds appeal to hosting a convention here.

The convention center advocates do themselves a disservice by trumpeting data that is easy to punch holes in. I don't know why they don't just simplify their message that we need a new convention center, explain why, explain how it helps mom and pop businesses and our city's tax coffers, and why if we have a convention center hotel it will enable us to increase the number of convention bookings we get.

It's not rocket science, but I haven't been hired to do their messaging, so I have no clue why they keep shooting themselves in the foot, rhetorically speaking.

The convention center advocates do themselves a disservice by trumpeting data that is easy to punch holes in. I don't know why they don't just simplify their message that we need a new convention center, explain why, explain how it helps mom and pop businesses and our city's tax coffers, and why if we have a convention center hotel it will enable us to increase the number of convention bookings we get.

It's not rocket science, but I haven't been hired to do their messaging, so I have no clue why they keep shooting themselves in the foot, rhetorically speaking.

Better idea, have a huge open house and invite people to see the Cox Convention Center, then show them virtual tours and pictures of other closely comparable convention centers to our new one. Then ask, "Now, do you think we need a new convention center?"