My aunt and uncle just built a McMansion in New Braunfelns. Quite peculiar since they lived the last six decades in Fairhope AL and as far as I know have no connection to that area other than maybe taking the grand kids to the waterpark there.

Now what I want to know is whatever happened to Old Braunfels?

The BBQ joints were declared inauthentic and they decided to respond by making sausage and building McMansions.
The cottage industry of wadding panties also went away.

Does anyone else find it ironic that a SAT thread is the busiest on a OKC forum?

Does anyone else find it ironic that a SAT thread is the busiest on a OKC forum?

Not me.

It may simply be a matter of civic pride . . .

XzHHvxNh4PY

Help me understand what this has to do with Cleveland... Or me slighting Texas. This guy has a chip on his shoulder because we all hype the other Texas cities besides SA.

I'm assuming it's because you brought up Cleveland first. Before Plutonic and before myself. We were simply responding to your claim.


You get your panties in a wad to defend suburban places in every thread. Texas has great cities, but anyone coming on here ranting and raving about how much better SA is than Austin has to be insane. This is an urbanism forum. Not a suburban sprawl fan club, for which I agree SA would be superior.

And if we are talking about urbanism, then San Antonio is doing just as well. As I have said countless times, more than 1,000 residential units have gone up in the urban core in the last year. Another 2,000 residential units are proposed or under construction in the urban core. The Pearl alone is currently building a 10-story 102 unit residential building and plans are to build multiple towers that will add up to 800 units.

That's just one small area of the urban core.

Heck, the condo market is heating up too. The two largest penthouses in downtown sold this year for $2.5 and $2.9 million respectively. The 2.9 million dollar penthouse sold this past week.

San Antonio had the first bike share program, San Antonio B-cycle (https://sanantonio.bcycle.com/default.aspx), in Texas and now the largest bike share program in Texas. It started in 2011 and today, as I said, it is the largest bike share in Texas and the second largest B-Cycle program in the US behind only Denver. 52 stations with nearly 500 bikes spread throughout the urban core and some even go beyond the urban core (http://i.imgur.com/U1IiIoA.png). If you look at that picture, that's a ten mile difference between the northern most bike station and the southern most bike station. And more stations/bikes will be added in 2014.

San Antonio is adding a new civic park and urban transit district, with a strong focus on mixed-use develop, in the urban core.

San Antonio is adding street car to the urban core.

San Antonio is adding a medical school to the urban core.

I can keep going.

Hell, San Antonio now has the second largest food truck scene in Texas.

I don't know what Sparty's problem is, but I find San Antonio far superior to Austin.

Help me understand what this has to do with Cleveland... Or me slighting Texas. This guy has a chip on his shoulder because we all hype the other Texas cities besides SA.

You get your panties in a wad to defend suburban places in every thread. Texas has great cities, but anyone coming on here ranting and raving about how much better SA is than Austin has to be insane. This is an urbanism forum. Not a suburban sprawl fan club, for which I agree SA would be superior.

I understand that not all talk on OKCTalk is cordial and polite, but OKCTalk is not, in my understanding, an urbanism forum.

Help me understand what this has to do with Cleveland... Or me slighting Texas. This guy has a chip on his shoulder because we all hype the other Texas cities besides SA.

You get your panties in a wad to defend suburban places in every thread. Texas has great cities, but anyone coming on here ranting and raving about how much better SA is than Austin has to be insane. This is an urbanism forum. Not a suburban sprawl fan club, for which I agree SA would be superior.Don't know Spartan. I have never heard you once say anything good about Texas and you always seem to bash Texas with anything you have to say about it. I will defend places and give credit where it is due, and SA is doing great things here.

Also, please explain to me how exactly OKCTalk is an urbanism forum. I thought it was a forum for people to view OKC's development progress by a group of people who take great interest in the city, not just urbanist. Am I wrong on this?

Help me understand what this has to do with Cleveland... Or me slighting Texas. This guy has a chip on his shoulder because we all hype the other Texas cities besides SA.

You get your panties in a wad to defend suburban places in every thread. Texas has great cities, but anyone coming on here ranting and raving about how much better SA is than Austin has to be insane. This is an urbanism forum. Not a suburban sprawl fan club, for which I agree SA would be superior.Oh and to answer your original question, you said this


Okay, great. That's not out of line with development in downtown OKC, and wouldn't compare very favorably to downtown Cleveland. Stick to bragging about the climate in South Texas.

I also believe you questioned what SA had to do with OKCTalk, maybe that was someone else, please correct if so. You were the first to bring up Cleveland and since you were downplaying San Antonio's development, I brought up Cleveland saying I think SA is a better city, which I do.

Also, this is apparently his hometown and he is defending it. Wouldn't you do the same? Josh asked a simple question, someone responded and he responded. We suggested he create a SA development thread to keep with new developments similar to what you and UrbanNebraska do and he did. You said "OMG I can't believe this thread is happening" and that is dissing Texas by insinuating that a thread of SA's development isn't worthy, yet somehow Cleveland is. That is worth laughing out loud for. I think you're jealous of what is happening in Texas and everyone needs something to hate in a certain category and Texas is a popular state for people to bash on with no insight.

You don't like 20 lane highways and massive interchanges, fine. I do, you can stick to your urban cities and you might as well move to NYC is sprawl bothers you so much(even though they do have problems with sprawl in NY), Cleveland is no stranger to sprawl either, Spartan. Keep bashing sprawl and saying the burbs are done for even though it has been happening for over 50 years now.

Don't know Spartan. I have never heard you once say anything good about Texas and you always seem to bash Texas with anything you have to say about it. I will defend places and give credit where it is due, and SA is doing great things here.

Also, please explain to me how exactly OKCTalk is an urbanism forum. I thought it was a forum for people to view OKC's development progress by a group of people who take great interest in the city, not just urbanist. Am I wrong on this?

Yes

YesWhatever floats your boat dude

I often see people on here mis-use the term "New Urbanism". What is happening ind downtown OKC is NOT New Urbanism. It is revitalization of an existing urban environment. New Urbanism can happen in the suburbs, new communities, etc., and is usually a carefully planned approach to creating a walkable environment from scratch. At times if not done properly it can be a bit corny and inauthentic. But overall it is a wonderful way to make places more livable.
Lots of great stuff is happening in SA's urban core. I've seen it with my own eyes, and was pleasantly surprised. Shouldn't be THAT much of a surprise; downtown redevelopment is happening in nearly every major city in America, and SA has the benefit of some pre-existing downtown amenities and some great historic building stock.
SA also has a cool vibe in certain old neighborhoods similar to what is happening on NW 23rd here in OKC. SA has some great neighborhood bars, dining, etc. It's a very old city for this part of the world, and that gives it some cool funkiness that we could only dream of here.
As much as I sometimes wish it were, OKC Talk is not strictly an urbanist forum (sorry Sparty). Obviously, the most active commenting is often on urban projects (perhaps because the most exciting stuff happening in OKC is happening downtown, and/or perhaps because urbanists tend to be a bit more on the zealot end of the spectrum). But the board is a city-wide forum, with tons of suburban-oriented topics (which I usually have little interest in) and posters (who I welcome, other than when they come and crap on urbanist issues without solicitation). Considering OKC is HEAVILY suburban, many if not most people here are going to be interested in what is going on in their part of town, and that is totally fair.

Also, please explain to me how exactly OKCTalk is an urbanism forum. I thought it was a forum for people to view OKC's development progress by a group of people who take great interest in the city, not just urbanist. Am I wrong on this?

Yes
No

This was created and posted on another forum. It's a scorecard of all the current developments happening or planned for the urban core.

http://i.imgur.com/btZcocl.png

I'll try and post about all of them.

Here's a map and number guide to show where and what the urban core projects are.

Click on the picture for a LARGER version
http://i.imgur.com/ZIrmPyU.jpg (http://174.142.61.69/e/1/4927c050-befe-41cd-9949-25951b395273.png)

I added a couple of projects that the scorecard doesn't list. Those are: 930 Broadway, Wyndam Garden, Hemisfair Park redevelopment, San Pedro Creek redevelopment.

Hilton Garden Inn │ 10 Stories │ Downtown

http://i.imgur.com/KCIcoWG.jpg

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5485/9649461299_2463f92ae5_o.png

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3768/9649460851_c21051127f_c.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7404/9652694048_203927ae5b_c.jpg

Tobin Center for the Performing Arts │ 11 STORIES │ Downtown

http://i.imgur.com/3vSJ6Ku.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/AbiZuaL.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/s57JBKZh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ILUHkcsh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/BixjjBQh.jpg

W Hotel and Residences │ 33 Stories │ Downtown

http://i.imgur.com/T5BGkGb.png

http://i.imgur.com/V4G7wyu.png

http://i.imgur.com/OHvcONA.png

http://i.imgur.com/mHI7ZoM.png

That is awesome man!!!!!!!!

Merchants Ice Lofts │ 6 Stories │ Near East Side

http://urbantonio.com/assets/merchants-ice-house/Ice-House-Elevation.jpg

http://urbantonio.com/assets/merchants-ice-house/Ice-House.png

http://urbantonio.com/assets/merchants-ice-house/Ice-House-NE-Corner.jpg

The renderings are not of the finished design, it's just generic structures to show the height of the under design buildings.

UIW Medical School Phase I │ 10 Stories │ River North

http://urbantonio.com/assets/uiw-medical-school/uiw-medical.jpg

The Phipps │ 5 Stories │ River North

http://urbantonio.com/assets/river-office/river-office.jpg

The River House │ 5 Stories │ River North

http://urbantonio.com/assets/the-river-house/river-house-2.png

http://urbantonio.com/assets/the-river-house/river-house-1.png

http://urbantonio.com/assets/the-river-house/under-construction.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Ugc4e.png

Construction occurs with 1221 Broadway (http://www.1221broadway.com/) in the background.

Confluence Park │ Mission Reach

http://urbantonio.com/assets/confluence-park/confluence1.jpg

http://urbantonio.com/assets/confluence-park/confluence2.jpg

The Cellars │ 10 Stories │ The Pearl

http://urbantonio.com/assets/the-cellars/cellars-elevation-2.png

http://urbantonio.com/assets/the-cellars/cellars-elevation-3.png

http://urbantonio.com/assets/the-cellars/cellars1.jpg

http://urbantonio.com/assets/the-cellars/cellars2.jpg

Rolling Homes Townhouses │ 1-2 Stories │ SoSo District

An abandoned trailer park, in the South of Southtown District, is currently being transformed into an urban community comprised of 27 modern homes.

http://i.imgur.com/iu0Lv2x.png

http://i.imgur.com/GBBE9fT.png

http://i.imgur.com/0daKPxU.png

http://i.imgur.com/vj7KRhT.png

1130 Broadway │ 4 Stories │ River North

http://i.imgur.com/iquMpx6.png

http://i.imgur.com/f8DpAHW.png

930 Broadway │ 4 Stories │ River North

http://i40.tinypic.com/wvd7xf.jpg

Thanks for all the updates Josh. San Antonio is a boom town with more projects on the horizon. :)

Seriously dude, SanAntonioTalk.com. That's where you want to be. You are on the wrong forum.

You ask a totally subjective question. Moreover you ask a totally subjective question that can only end with you getting your feelings hurt. "Why don't people talk about San Antonio when they talk about all the great Texas cities? We're just as good as blah blah blah." That's like the ugly girl asking "you guys are flirting with all the cheerleaders, why don't you ask me out instead?"

San Antonio is home to the Alamo, a small building where a handful of white people were overrun by a horde of Mexicans. Nobody talks about San Antonio because everyone thinks its still that way. It's not hip and cool like Austin, it's not a sprawling metropolis heavily identified with Air and Space and oil like Houston. It didn't have it's own soap opera like Dallas. Instead it has a million Mexicans.

You asked why people don't talk about it? That's why. That's the perception. You can argue as much as you want. That's still the perception. And that's why no one talks about it.

Edit:

That came across just a little bit harsher than I intended it. San Antonio is probably a great place. Of course I went to college with a guy from San Antonio and he was a dick. But it's in that same situation that OKC is in. It's going to get very limited attention from people outside of its area. It is not sexy. It is not high profile. Oklahoma's equivalent to San Antonio is Lawton.

It's cool, I know your just blowing off steam. Btw I wouldn't say Lawton is Oklahoma version of San Antonio. I would say Lawton is more in line with Killeen. Both cities have a diverse military population, and both are nearly the same size as well.

I'm not sure how like this will be, But there is talk about a high speed bullet train from San Antonio to Monterrey MX.

TX congressman backs high-speed rail from SA to Mexico | News - Home (http://www.ksat.com/news/tx-congressman-backs-highspeed-rail-from-sa-to-mexico/-/478452/24010398/-/evy3k2z/-/index.html)

If anything I think a bullet train will do wonders for the Austin- San Antonio Corridor. A region that has 4.2 million people and about the size of Massachusetts. We need this this train as well as more public transportation.

I'm not sure how like this will be, But there is talk about a high speed bullet train from San Antonio to Monterrey MX.

TX congressman backs high-speed rail from SA to Mexico | News - Home (http://www.ksat.com/news/tx-congressman-backs-highspeed-rail-from-sa-to-mexico/-/478452/24010398/-/evy3k2z/-/index.html)

If anything I think a bullet train will do wonders for the Austin- San Antonio Corridor. A region that has 4.2 million people and about the size of Massachusetts. We need this this train as well as more public transportation.

Given the section only in Texas is roughly equal distance to Dallas to Houston, it seems a little hard to believe it happens before a DFW-Houston line. Which has like six times the voters in Texas and more than double the total population of potential riders.

Given the section only in Texas is roughly equal distance to Dallas to Houston, it seems a little hard to believe it happens before a DFW-Houston line. Which has like six times the voters in Texas and more than double the total population of potential riders.

The SA to Monterrey line is more likely to happen because Mexico already has funding for their portion and finding a private firm to build the US portion won't be too hard.

Not really urban news but still San Antonio news.


In-n-Out selects site for their first San Antonio restaurant (http://www.mysanantonio.com/business/local/article/In-N-Out-Burger-tied-to-North-Side-site-5168652.php)

http://ww1.hdnux.com/photos/22/03/47/4733428/0/622x350.jpg

It's cool, I know your just blowing off steam. Btw I wouldn't say Lawton is Oklahoma version of San Antonio. I would say Lawton is more in line with Killeen. Both cities have a diverse military population, and both are nearly the same size as well.

But all things aren't equal. It really puts Oklahoma in perspective for you when you consider that Lawton really is our San Antone. Keep in mind there's a much sharper drop-off after OKC and Tulsa than there is after Houston and Dallas.

But all things aren't equal. It really puts Oklahoma in perspective for you when you consider that Lawton really is our San Antone. Keep in mind there's a much sharper drop-off after OKC and Tulsa than there is after Houston and Dallas.

And by your logic/measurement, Corpus Christi is our Oklahoma City.

I would say OKC is more comparable to Dallas than to Corpus.

I would say OKC is more comparable to Dallas than to Corpus.

I was showing how moronic his logic is.

With that said, Dallas and Okc are in no way comparable. I'm no fan of Dallas in any regard but it's on an entirely different level than Oklahoma City in every aspect. If you tiered the Texas metros and pretended Texas boundaries magically moved north and encased OKC. DFW would be in Tier 1. San Antonio would be in the second tier and OKC would be in the third tier along with El Paso. Obviously Houston is TI with Dallas.

I was showing how moronic his logic is.

With that said, Dallas and Okc are in no way comparable. I'm no fan of Dallas in any regard but it's on an entirely different level than Oklahoma City in every aspect. If you tiered the Texas metros and pretended Texas boundaries magically moved north and encased OKC. DFW would be in Tier 1. San Antonio would be in the second tier and OKC would be in the third tier along with El Paso. Obviously Houston is TI with Dallas.I understand that, but with any large city in Texas is going to be much bigger than OKC or any city in Oklahoma. I suppose you could say Amarillo is comparable to OKC, but Amarillo sucks ass, at least in my book.

Dallas-scaled down-would resemble OKC closer than any other city in Texas.

I understand that, but with any large city in Texas is going to be much bigger than OKC or any city in Oklahoma. I suppose you could say Amarillo is comparable to OKC, but Amarillo sucks ass, at least in my book.

Dallas-scaled down-would resemble OKC closer than any other city in Texas.

Scaled down, it's still not comparable. Just the sheer number of corporations HQ'd there or with a large presence there. The number of F500's HQ'd there. The size of their airport, the amount of people who move there every year, their diverse economy, their skyline, their multiple skylines, the number of pro sports teams, the mass transit, the income, the upscale shopping, the freeway system, etc.

I guess you mean maybe if you called OKC a poor man's Dallas, then maybe, but that man has to be very poor.

Again, I'm not trying to just insult OKC or put it down. Believe me, I want to gag at how positive I'm being towards Dallas. I literally hate the place. But there's no comparison, even on a scaled down level.

That's like Atlanta saying if you scaled down New York City, you'd get Atlanta.

But all things aren't equal. It really puts Oklahoma in perspective for you when you consider that Lawton really is our San Antone. Keep in mind there's a much sharper drop-off after OKC and Tulsa than there is after Houston and Dallas.

No way. There is no Houston or Dallas of Oklahoma. No way SA would be Lawton. If anything SA and OKC are the most similar to each other. OKC would probably be in the same tier as SA and Austin. OKC is a fine town, which is why I don't get this ridiculous argument on here, but it doesn't even have a lot of the amenities SA and Austin have. It's still growing and I see great things for it, especially it's downtown. But your attempt at trolling is weak.

OKC would be like a mini Dallas, imo. Or maybe a mix between Dallas and Fort Worth or something. Sure it doesn't have the upscale shopping, sports, etc. but it's probably the most accurate comparison. For instance, Houston does not have the shopping or amenities that LA has but the best description of it would probably be a LA and New Orleans mix.

W Hotel and Residences │ 33 Stories │ Downtown

http://i.imgur.com/T5BGkGb.png

http://i.imgur.com/V4G7wyu.png

http://i.imgur.com/OHvcONA.png

http://i.imgur.com/mHI7ZoM.png

This is a very beautiful project. I hope to see more of it.

I was showing how moronic his logic is.

With that said, Dallas and Okc are in no way comparable. I'm no fan of Dallas in any regard but it's on an entirely different level than Oklahoma City in every aspect. If you tiered the Texas metros and pretended Texas boundaries magically moved north and encased OKC. DFW would be in Tier 1. San Antonio would be in the second tier and OKC would be in the third tier along with El Paso. Obviously Houston is TI with Dallas.

I agree with this. El Paso is probably the Texas city most comparable to OKC. It's not demographically or culturally, but in terms of general size and economic clout. El Paso and OKC have both been somewhat left out of the boom that the core Texas cities have experienced. I personally think El Paso is a very underrated town. I really wish OKC would adopt the landscaping standards many areas of El Paso have. That city goes to show you don't have to have lush greenery and 100 ft pine trees to make a place look decent.

El Paso is located in a desert man. Do you want OKC to rip all of its grass and trees and turn into a desert? El Paso has also been experiencing quite a boom from what I've heard and I honestly would not compare El Paso to OKC.

I agree with this. El Paso is probably the Texas city most comparable to OKC. It's not demographically or culturally, but in terms of general size and economic clout. El Paso and OKC have both been somewhat left out of the boom that the core Texas cities have experienced. I personally think El Paso is a very underrated town. I really wish OKC would adopt the landscaping standards many areas of El Paso have. That city goes to show you don't have to have lush greenery and 100 ft pine trees to make a place look decent.

While it is somewhat close population wise, El Paso has less than half the GDP of OKC, at the rate ours has grown the last few years it will be closer to a third this year or next. Out of Texas cities, we are probably closer to San Antonio than El Paso.

El Paso is located in a desert man. Do you want OKC to rip all of its grass and trees and turn into a desert? El Paso has also been experiencing quite a boom from what I've heard and I honestly would not compare El Paso to OKC.

I didn't mean literally their standards. There are cues OKC could take from El Paso like planting trees, rock or brick fences around subdivisions rather than wood, medians on streets with double turn lanes, and streetlights/sidewalks along every street.

While it is somewhat close population wise, El Paso has less than half the GDP of OKC, at the rate ours has grown the last few years it will be closer to a third this year or next. Out of Texas cities, we are probably closer to San Antonio than El Paso.


The GDP of OKC, as of 2012, was 63 billion and grows by 2-3 billion annually.

The GDP of El Paso, as of 2012, was 29 billion and grows by 1-2 billion annually.

You are correct on El Paso's GDP being half of OKC's, however, in order for it to be 1/3 the GDP, OKC's GDP would have to jump to 90 billion or so. I doubt that would have happened in 2013.

You are correct on El Paso's GDP being half of OKC's, however, in order for it to be 1/3 the GDP, OKC's GDP would have to jump to 90 billion or so. I doubt that would have happened in 2013.

I may have seen an old number, the one I had seen was around 24

I may have seen an old number, the one I had seen was around 24

Yeah, that's an old number.

These (http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/regional/gdp_metro/2013/pdf/gdp_metro0913.pdf) are the 2012 numbers.

While it is somewhat close population wise, El Paso has less than half the GDP of OKC, at the rate ours has grown the last few years it will be closer to a third this year or next. Out of Texas cities, we are probably closer to San Antonio than El Paso.

OKC is roughly at the half way point between El Paso and San Antonio using the metric of GDP. Tulsa is closer in population to El Paso and their GDP is 37 billion, so I would say Tulsa and El Paso may be more comparable than OKC and El Paso. I was noticing San Antonio seems to underperform in GDP compared to cities its size. It's below Austin and significantly below Kansas City and Charlotte.

I couldn't tell you, it is a bit puzzling.

I think with Charlotte it's because they are a banking center. Second only to NYC. In 2001, with just a 1.5 million metro population, their GDP was $100 billion.

Agreed, OKC is more in line with San Antonio. Also if OKC and Tulsa were in Texas I would rank them with.
Tier 1. Houston/DFW
Tier 2. Austin/ San Antonio/ OKC
Tier 3. Tulsa/ El Paso

Also one thing, it is amazing how Texas has so many other cities ranging from small to large.

By Metropolitan (Not in order)
100k: Abilene, San Angelo, Longview, Victoria, Wichita Falls .
200k- 450k: Tyler, Laredo, Waco, Amarillo, Brownsville, Bryan- College Station, Midland- Odessa, Lubbock, Beaumont- Port Arthur, Temple- Killeen.
450k- 900k: Corpus Christi, El Paso, Mc Allen.

There's just no way OKC would be TIER 2.

Oklahoma City:

Population: 1.3 million. (15% growth rate)
Fortune 500 companies: 2 (both in the 200 range)
Gross Domestic Product: 63bn


Tulsa:

Population: 1.1 million (10% growth rate)
Fortune 500 companies: 2 (One in the high 100s)
Gross Domestic Product: 47bn

OKC's stats aren't very impressive in comparison and that's with being the largest metro in the state and the capital of said state.

IMO, the university and an NBA team doesn't elevate OKC up a tier if it were in Texas.

Agreed, OKC is more in line with San Antonio. Also if OKC and Tulsa were in Texas I would rank them with.
Tier 1. Houston/DFW
Tier 2. Austin/ San Antonio/ OKC
Tier 3. Tulsa/ El Paso

Perhaps, but I think OKC is distinctively below Austin and San Antonio but above Tulsa and El Paso. Texas doesn't really have any cities that compare to OKC in terms of size and significance. All of the major ones are either above or below us. I would rank it like this.

Tier 1: Houston, Dallas
Tier 2: Austin, San Antonio
Tier 3: OKC
Tier 4: El Paso, Tulsa, Corpus Christi
Tier 5: Tyler, Laredo, Waco, Amarillo, Brownsville, Bryan- College Station, Midland- Odessa, Lubbock, Beaumont- Port Arthur, Temple-Killeen, McAllen

I revised my post to show the difference between OKC and Tulsa instead of OKC and San Antonio.

Perhaps, but I think OKC is distinctively below Austin and San Antonio but above Tulsa and El Paso. Texas doesn't really have any cities that compare to OKC in terms of size and significance. All of the major ones are either above or below us. I would rank it like this.

Tier 1: Houston, Dallas
Tier 2: Austin, San Antonio
Tier 3: OKC
Tier 4: El Paso, Tulsa, Corpus Christi
Tier 5: Tyler, Laredo, Waco, Amarillo, Brownsville, Bryan- College Station, Midland- Odessa, Lubbock, Beaumont- Port Arthur, Temple-Killeen, McAllen

I'd add El Paso and Tulsa to Tier 3 and move McAllen to Tier 4 with Corpus.

I revised my post to show the difference between OKC and Tulsa instead of OKC and San Antonio.

Your Tulsa stats are incorrect. Their metro area's population is 951,880 (2012) and GDP is $37 billion.

I agree with you that San Antonio is distinctively above OKC. The stats for OKC aren't that terrible, but they just don't match up to the Texas powerhouses. There are many states that you could place a city like OKC in and it would totally dominate.

I'd add El Paso and Tulsa to Tier 3 and move McAllen to Tier 4 with Corpus.

OKC having twice the GDP of El Paso and about a third more than Tulsa I think it deserves to be in its own tier.

Your Tulsa stats are incorrect. Their metro area's population is 951,880 (2012) and GDP is $37 billion.

I agree with you that San Antonio is distinctively above OKC. The stats for OKC aren't that terrible, but they just don't match up to the Texas powerhouses. There are many states that you could place a city like OKC in and it would totally dominate.

I used the CSA population for Tulsa, which is a little over 1.1 million. Not a huge difference between 950k and 1.1 million. But since Tulsa has a CSA population, it has to be used, just like DFW's CSA population is used.

As for the GDP, Tulsa's GDP was 47bn (http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/regional/gdp_metro/2013/pdf/gdp_metro0913.pdf) in 2012.

OKC having twice the GDP of El Paso and about a third more than Tulsa I think it deserves to be in its own tier.

OKC would definitely be ahead of El Paso and Tulsa, within the Tier. But all three are in the same tier, imo.

Ok! Enough being off topic. Back to the topic of this thread. lol