MUst be awfully depressing to believe this is all there is...that there is no purpose in your life other than to just be an animal and die.

It must be awfully depressing to live this life and pin all your hopes that you can meet the minimum requirements for entrance through the pearly gates. Plenty of us find great purpose in our lives, and do good things for others without pinning our hopes to everlasting life in heaven. We see what we have here, and try to make this a better place. If you can find something wrong with this point of view, that's fine.

Its pretty simple its one of the ten commandments "Thou shall not murder"

Define murder

What i do wish is that all people that don't believe in GOD is to stop attacking those that do.

What I do wish is that all people who believe in God quit trying to push their beliefs on others.

MUst be awfully depressing to believe this is all there is...that there is no purpose in your life other than to just be an animal and die.

Not depressing at all. I have a rich and fulfilling life. I'm not sure I've met a depressed atheist, come to think of it.

Jim,

Are you there person who is pretending to understand science that PP keeps referencing? :) Theoretical physics has enormous amounts of verifiable evidence.

No, science is not based on faith. Not the kind of faith that implores someone to simply just believe in something that has NO evidence. There are several orders of magnitude difference between what I can see and observe at CERN and what you can never prove (like hell).

To be fair, on the theoretical side, some could be called "faith". Physicists believed they would find the top quark and Higgs boson, and they eventually did, with verifiable evidence. Of course, in contrast to religion, they spent considerable time thinking about alternatives, and what they would look at if they didn't find them. If they hadn't found them, they would have revised the standard model or scrapped it. That's science. That's living a life based on evidence.

The difference is as you eluded to is that men of science call such things theories and not indisputable fact. It's not a matter of faith but rather a case of logic, reasoning and the scientific method. I gotta admit though you posted one heck of a google worthy gem. I love it when people introduce me to new concepts. Thanks.

Science calls it theories and assumes them as facts. Believers call it faith in their beliefs.

Just as there are lots of tea party and others who refuse the evidence of science, there are millions who deny the evidence and logic of God's existence. That is up to the individual to accept the information and what to do about it.

If I am wrong about God, then I guess I will just die and become the dust under everyone's feet. If nonbelievers are wrong....

Science and narcissism don't happen to be my god, but if others believe it, it is their perrogative. But, No chat, email or posting on a site will ever present the truth fully either way.

Here's my theory: "Science" is religion for agnostics and atheists. I look forward to eventually hearing some scientific religion tunes soon such as, "Higgs Boson Loves the Little Children." (in reality a higgs boson doesn't care one way or the other)

Just as there are lots of tea party and others who refuse the evidence of science, there are millions who deny the evidence and logic of God's existence. That is up to the individual to accept the information and what to do about it.

If I am wrong about God, then I guess I will just die and become the dust under everyone's feet. If nonbelievers are wrong....

Science and narcissism don't happen to be my god, but if others believe it, it is their perrogative. But, No chat, email or posting on a site will ever present the truth fully either way.

Sorry, there is very little logic when it comes to religion. Thats why its called faith. There is nothing logical about God and his book. Its just stories passed from one generation to the next, not logic.

And if Im wrong...well, if I live what I consider to be a compassionate, kind life, always doing what I think is right yet God doesnt welcome me to heaven because I didnt worship and give money to him...well Im not sure thats a place I really want to be to begin with.

And regarding your earlier comment about it must be depressing to not believe...no its not. Planet earth is an amazing place with beautiful things and beautiful people. And trying to live it to the fullest while spending as much time with friends and family that you love is hardly depressing.

Here's my theory: "Science" is religion for agnostics and atheists. I look forward to eventually hearing some scientific religion tunes soon such as, "Higgs Boson Loves the Little Children." (in reality a higgs boson doesn't care one way or the other)

Science doesn't conform to the definition of religion; nothing is truly sacred to science, nor is there the requisite social aspects.

I do, however, expect to hear a draft of your song by COB today.

Wrong about what? Wrong I was born in Alaska so I was born of a christian family? Or are the pygmies just wrong because they weren't?

And which god would you have me simply believe in? There have been thousands. Seriously, think about that for a second. For as long as we've been on this rock, there have been people exactly like you telling others that they should believe in X god. It has been different every generation - mostly depending on where you are born.

Talk about narcissism. You believe you just lucked out. Born in a society where they believe in the one true god. Those others on that other rock? Poor bastards. Their god is a fake god. But not mine!

Says every single human "believer" who ever believed in any god or spiritual being since the beginning of time.

Thinking about the bold part...That's what started my path down my particular road of becoming an unbeliever.

At some point I came across a related quote:

"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
...Stephen F Roberts

My life's experiences, followed finally with reading the bible. I mean REALLY reading it...That's what finally made me sit back and say "I don't believe a word of this...I'm done".

I am not trying to change anyone's mind or heart. I would be arrogant to think I could. Glad everyone feels so sure and strongly in what they believe. We all have free will. Thankfully we live in America and can express it when we want.

Define murderIn the context of the original language and Biblical times, it was "killing a member of one's own tribe."

Then King James's committee translated that passage as "Thou shalt not kill" without getting involved at all with the definition of "murder" although "murder" is a better translation of the original...

Sorry, there is very little logic when it comes to religion. Thats why its called faith. There is nothing logical about God and his book. Its just stories passed from one generation to the next, not logic.

And if Im wrong...well, if I live what I consider to be a compassionate, kind life, always doing what I think is right yet God doesnt welcome me to heaven because I didnt worship and give money to him...well Im not sure thats a place I really want to be to begin with.

And regarding your earlier comment about it must be depressing to not believe...no its not. Planet earth is an amazing place with beautiful things and beautiful people. And trying to live it to the fullest while spending as much time with friends and family that you love is hardly depressing.



Wrong about what? Wrong I was born in Alaska so I was born of a christian family? Or are the pygmies just wrong because they weren't?

And which god would you have me simply believe in? There have been thousands. Seriously, think about that for a second. For as long as we've been on this rock, there have been people exactly like you telling others that they should believe in X god. It has been different every generation - mostly depending on where you are born.

Talk about narcissism. You believe you just lucked out. Born in a society where they believe in the one true god. Those others on that other rock? Poor bastards. Their god is a fake god. But not mine!

Says every single human "believer" who ever believed in any god or spiritual being since the beginning of time.

These very two ideas circulated in my mind for years before I finally got tired of all the loopholes trying to explain how God either allowed certain people in (or not) and at what age, and whether or not they had the opportunity to hear the word, whether they asked for forgiveness, whether one time forgiveness was enough or if weekly or monthly or yearly confession was required, and why people who were mentally ill and committed suicide were not allowed into heaven but somebody who abused a child could be.

Then, when I applied a little critical thinking and looked at history beyond a couple thousand years (and beyond Europe and Judea), it all became pretty clear.

Faith is a great thing for many, many people, but as we mature (as the human race), there will be more and more push back. If you have never LIVED outside of Oklahoma, you just really don't understand how powerful religion is here, and how you are made to feel if you don't believe a certain way. I'm used to it, and am respectful, but I am always willing to discus why I no longer believe (thought it makes people uncomfortable at times - they really can't believe "somebody like you doesn't believe in God.")


Rover - I hope you don't feel like you were ganged up on, but I'm pretty sure you're comfortable defending your faith. Peace be with you!

In the context of the original language and Biblical times, it was "killing
a member of one's own tribe."
This is the first time I've ever heard this.

It must be awfully depressing to live this life and pin all your hopes that you can meet the minimum requirements for entrance through the pearly gates. Plenty of us find great purpose in our lives, and do good things for others without pinning our hopes to everlasting life in heaven. We see what we have here, and try to make this a better place. If you can find something wrong with this point of view, that's fine.

Here is a place where our paradigms of reality diverge. (another place =)
I don't think of Christianity as "pie in the sky by and by" and never consider "good works" to be like making a payment on a ticket to paradise.
I don't spin prayer wheels, shuffle beads or practice any other wacky religious rituals either.

It is a cliché at this point, yet Christianity isn't so much a "religion" as it is a relationship.
(And sometimes I feel like Clark Griswold's brother-in-law)

I'd be almost certain that the Higgs Boson would agree, if it had been given the ability, by God, to think about it.
Probably a star, such as our sun, would too.

Here is a place where our paradigms of reality diverge. (another place =)
I don't think of Christianity as "pie in the sky by and by" and never consider "good works" to be like making a payment on a ticket to paradise.
I don't spin prayer wheels, shuffle beads or practice any other wacky religious rituals either.

It is a cliché at this point, yet Christianity isn't so much a "religion" as it is a relationship.
(And sometimes I feel like Clark Griswold's brother-in-law)

I'd be almost certain that the Higgs Boson would agree, if it had been given the ability, by God, to think about it.
Probably a star, such as our sun, would too.

Without chasing another rabbit...

Would I be correct in my assumption that you probably don't believe in hell, or that decent folks will be punished by spending eternity there?

@Prunepicker...

I picked that bit of trivia up from a book about the Dead Sea scrolls that I read in the late 50s, and it stuck with me. It certainly explains a lot of apparent discrepancy between the commandment, and the subsequent battles in which the Israelites were commanded to leave no enemy alive, not even babes in arms...

Would I be correct in my assumption that you probably don't believe in hell, or that decent folks will be punished by spending eternity there?A longtime close friend, who followed the B'Hai teachings, once suggested to me that the hell mentioned in the bible was simply the name of the Jerusalem landfill in Biblical times. Some bit of imaginative fiction that I read over the years planted the notion that it was simply a place where one could not gain any more knowledge or enlightenment. And a number of writers have expressed the idea that it's simply right here on Earth today.

I don't know which of these is right, or whether any of them are even close to truth (whatever that may be). I only know that it doesn't make much difference in guiding my day to day actions, so it doesn't matter. I don't guide my life on the basis of fear; I simply want to be able to look in the mirror without feeling too ashamed of my actions. I've done too many things that I now regret; I don't want to add any more.

@Prunepicker...

I picked that bit of trivia up from a book about the Dead Sea scrolls that
I read in the late 50s, and it stuck with me. It certainly explains a lot of
apparet discrepancy between the commandment, and the subsequent
battles in which the Israelites were commanded to leave no enemy alive,
not even babes in arms...
It's incorrect. It meant you weren't to murder anyone, period.

There's only one instance in the Bible that the enemy was to be utterly
destroyed. It was commanded to Saul (1 Sam 15) and it never happened.
Another case in point is that all commands to go to battle were closed
after the battle. They weren't to be continued. This is unlike the Qu'ran
or the teachings of Mohammad.

It's incorrect. It meant you weren't to commit murder anyone, period.

There's only one instance in the Bible that the enemy was to be utterly
destroyed. It was commanded to Saul (1 Sam 15) and it never happened.
Another case in point is that all commands to go to battle were closed
after the battle. They weren't to be continued. This is unlike the Qu'ran
or the teachings of Mohammad.

Mass Killings Ordered, Committed, or Approved By The God of the Bible (http://ffrf.org/legacy/books/bas/bas5.php)

What about all of these, Prune?

Mass Killings Ordered, Committed, or Approved By The God of the Bible (http://ffrf.org/legacy/books/bas/bas5.php)

What about all of these, Prune?
I was incorrect. There were 3 instances that God commanded them to
utterly destroy all inhabitants.

By the way, the battles in the link you supplied weren't to be continued.

I was incorrect. There were 2 instances that God commanded them to
utterly destroy all inhabitants.

By the way, the battles in the link you supplied weren't to be continued.

Gotcha. Thanks. I was serious by the way, not poking at you.

Gotcha. Thanks. I was serious by the way, not poking at you.
What are you talking about? I never said you weren't serious. There are
only 3 instances to utterly destroy. One in 1 Samuel and the other in
Deuteronomy. I admitted I was incorrect. Just curious, did you read
each of the listings?

What are you talking about? I never said you weren't serious. There are
only 3 instances to utterly destroy. One in 1 Samuel and the other in
Deuteronomy. I admitted I was incorrect. Just curious, did you read
each of the listings?

No, no, no. You misunderstood. I was saying that I really was serious what you thought of those things and that I appreciated the clarification and I wasn't just messing with you by posting the link. I only wanted you to know that. That's all.

No, no, no. You misunderstood. I was saying that I really was serious
what you thought of those things and that I appreciated the clarification
and I wasn't just messing with you by posting the link. I only wanted
you to know that. That's all.
Got it. Thanx.

What I do wish is that all people who believe in God quit trying to push their beliefs on others.

That is one wish that I am positive will be granted for you the very moment that you take your last breath. Good luck.

Without chasing another rabbit...

Would I be correct in my assumption that you probably don't believe in hell, or that decent folks will be punished by spending eternity there?

I'm loathe to wade into this any more than I already have, but here's my two cents.
I have recently come to think of my chosen religion as a relationship, too. My spiritual advisers have led me to believe that the reason we should become involved in that relationship isn't in order to gain access to heaven when we die, but rather to gain access to heaven now. I like that idea. I like the idea that by living a more Christ-like life, I begin to experience all the benefits of heaven now. You're question sort of poses the alternative. If, by becoming more Christ-like you can begin to experience heaven now, then the opposite is that by not becoming more Christ-like, you are already experiencing hell now.
I'm sure that theologians would cite texts to prove me wrong, but that's my current mind-set.

I'm loathe to wade into this any more than I already have, but here's my two cents.
I have recently come to think of my chosen religion as a relationship, too. My spiritual advisers have led me to believe that the reason we should become involved in that relationship isn't in order to gain access to heaven when we die, but rather to gain access to heaven now. I like that idea. I like the idea that by living a more Christ-like life, I begin to experience all the benefits of heaven now. You're question sort of poses the alternative. If, by becoming more Christ-like you can begin to experience heaven now, then the opposite is that by not becoming more Christ-like, you are already experiencing hell now.
I'm sure that theologians would cite texts to prove me wrong, but that's my current mind-set.

Which sounds good. We can all pick whatever we want and nobody could possibly prove us wrong anyway.

Which sounds good. We can all pick whatever we want and nobody could possibly prove us wrong anyway.

or right. What if you and I were living the exact same life and I wanted to say I was in heaven but you were unhappy and would compare yours to hell (or vice versa -- there's no fight here)? You're right. There's no proving it.

I also like Douglas Adams' description of what might have been Jesus' intention all along:

And then, one Thursday, nearly two thousand years after one man had been nailed to a tree for saying how great it would be to be nice to people for a change, a girl sitting on her own in a small café in Rickmansworth suddenly realized what it was that had been going wrong all this time, and she finally knew how the world could be made a good and happy place. This time it was right, it would work, and no one would have to get nailed to anything.

I was incorrect. There were 3 instances that God commanded them to
utterly destroy all inhabitants.

By the way, the battles in the link you supplied weren't to be continued.


So according to God it's OK to murder?

I also like Douglas Adams' description of what might have been Jesus' intention all along:

Unfortunately, that girl never got to share her insight!

I can absolutely respect your point of view on your relationship with Christ. I respect folks who try to live by the guidelines set out by Christ - very simple to understand, yet difficult to hold to in this or any other time. If your relationship puts you in a place of peace now, that is awesome.

However, I also appreciate folks who try to walk the walk of other religions, or no religion as well. In certain parts of the world, you may or not be a follower of the "right" religion, and that's a shame.

You may, or may not agree, but not all Christians share your view or are as mature in their relationships, and they, sometimes, try to make up for their lack of faith/comfort by trying to convince others of their faith, and this is rarely good.

Best of luck in your walk!

So according to God it's OK to murder?

He did it a few times himself.

He did it a few times himself.
Incorrect. God never murdered.

Incorrect. God never murdered.

He just ordered it to be done?

He just ordered it to be done?

I think that is unfair to keep referring to God as He.
(i know that the english translation of The Bible does so, yet i stand by my opinion here)

I think that is unfair to keep referring to God as He.
(i know that the english translation of The Bible does so, yet i stand by my opinion here)

Good point and from now on I'll just refer to God as Q. They are both male and female.

Incorrect. God never murdered.

So the biblical flood didn't kill any people?

So the biblical flood didn't kill any people?
People were killed, not murdered. They were given 120 years to repent
and didn't.

The kids were given the chance to repent? How exactly were they asked
or told?
The kids could have been provided safety by their parents had their
parents repented. They didn't. Kind of like the dad is driving drunk while
he drives off a steep cliff with the kids are in the car.

By Noah.

The kids could have been provided safety by their parents had their
parents repented. They didn't. Kind of like the dad is driving drunk while
he drives off a steep cliff with the kids are in the car.

By Noah.

So were those kids innocent? Or have you a way to twist them into deserving of death so you can justify your dogma?

^ We are not far from the inevitable selective use of the Old Testament when it suits one's dogmatic position and ignoring the inconvenient bits. The usual suspect should be here soon enough......

^ We are not far from the inevitable selective use of the Old Testament
when it suits one's dogmatic position and ignoring the inconvenient bits.
The usual suspect should be here soon enough...
And as usual your contribution to the discussion is unnecessary.

And as usual your contribution to the discussion is unnecessary.

:LolLolLol

...
It's such a hideous excuse and lame attempt to explain away the obvious
contradiction.
No, not a contradiction.


If you believe the biblical story, you believe that the entire world was full
of adults worthy of instant, horrible death at the hands of a world-wide
flood and all of their children, infants included, drowned as a result.
All the babies and kids drowned.
I'm not denying that.


Don't even get me started with god asking Abraham to sacrifice his own
son. Seriously. How do you even come close to defending that? Oh sure
god. You must know best. What a horrible and utterly twisted belief.
You started the Abraham part, not I. It's easy to defend it. He was
being obedient to God. Did you realize that he didn't sacrifice his son?
Do you know why? I'm sure you won't find the answer on the religion
hate sites.

It's not a twisted belief.

:LolLolLol
I'm glad you agree that your post didn't provide a modicum of civility or
intellectual significance.

The arrogance of blind dogmatism usually leads to the assumption that one has not read the Bible if they disagree with the dogma. Pretty sure Pope Francis spoke about this very topic recently. (But I would almost bet the Pope is a cultist in the esteemed ones expert opinion.)

I think that I will erect a shrine to Nelson Mandela (along with a couple of small pictures of Barack Obama) call it Neo-Shintoism and hope that The Pope will make Mr. Mandela an "Official Saint" . . . yet I'm not counting on it. Too "Religious". Vaguely Anti-Protestant. Not really Christian. imho.

The activities, not the people.

I'm very aware of the story. Read the bible more times than I care to
remember. You are trying to make excuses for the murder of innocent
children.
I'm not making excuses. God murdered nobody. Their parents were given
a way out, and they declined. Their parents allowed the deaths of the
children to take place.


I'm showing you that it wasn't beneath god nor Abraham to consider
killing a child.
Again, you're wrong. Neither God or Abraham killed any children.
Why was Issac spared?


And I get nothing from any websites. I was being groomed for seminary.
Went to St. Augustine Academy, homeschooled, studied Latin, Hebrew,
and Greek and grew up in a Reformed Presbyterian home. I don't need
any website to tell me what the bible says.
Then why are you having such a difficult time understanding the Bible?

I'm very aware of the story. Read the bible more times than I care to remember. You are trying to make excuses for the murder of innocent children. I'm showing you that it wasn't beneath god nor Abraham to consider killing a child.

And I get nothing from any websites. I was being groomed for seminary. Went to St. Augustine Academy, homeschooled, studied Latin, Hebrew, and Greek and grew up in a Reformed Presbyterian home. I don't need any website to tell me what the bible says.

Well, there you go. A fisheater.

You weren't the right kind of Christian.

You weren't the right kind of Christian.
There's only one kind.

There's only one kind.

Let me guess, the kind that adheres to your dogma and only your dogma.

Let me guess, the kind that adheres to your dogma and only your dogma.
You're the only person endorsing and promoting a dogma.

Never mind...

Want to get to the nitty gritty of all this.....have the time?
This is a copyright-free tract from the FFRF.
Warning: This is pretty tough on Christianity and the Bible...so, if you are easily offended - don't even bother,

Why Jesus?


Jesus has been held in high regard by Christians and non-Christians alike. Regardless of whether he existed in history, or whether he was divine, many have asserted that the New Testament Christ character was the highest example of moral living. Many believe that his teachings, if truly understood and followed, would make this a better world.
Is this true? Does Jesus merit the widespread adoration he has received? Let's look at what he said and did.

Was Jesus Peaceable And Compassionate?

The birth of Jesus was heralded with "Peace on Earth," yet Jesus said, "Think not that I am come to send peace: I came not to send peace but a sword." (Matthew 10:34) "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." (Luke 22:36) "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." (Luke 19:27. In a parable, but spoken of favorably.)


The burning of unbelievers during the Inquisition was based on the words of Jesus: "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." (John 15:6)


Jesus looked at his critics "with anger" (Mark 3:5), and attacked merchants with a whip (John 2:15). He showed his respect for life by drowning innocent animals (Matthew 8:32). He refused to heal a sick child until he was pressured by the mother (Matthew 15:22-28).


The most revealing aspect of his character was his promotion of eternal torment. "The Son of man [Jesus himself] shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 13:41-42) "And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched." (Mark 9:43) Is this nice? Is it exemplary to make your point with threats of violence? Is hell a kind, peaceful idea?


Did Jesus Promote "Family Values"?


"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26)


"I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household." (Matthew 10:35-36)


When one of his disciples requested time off for his father's funeral, Jesus rebuked him: "Let the dead bury their dead." (Matthew 8:22)


Jesus never used the word "family." He never married or fathered children. To his own mother, he said, "Woman, what have I to do with thee?" (John 2:4)

What Were His Views On Equality And Social Justice?

Jesus encouraged the beating of slaves: "And that servant [slave], which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes." (Luke 12:47) He never denounced servitude, incorporating the master-slave relationship into many of his parables.
He did nothing to alleviate poverty. Rather than sell some expensive ointment to help the poor, Jesus wasted it on himself, saying, "Ye have the poor with you always." (Mark 14:3-7)


No women were chosen as disciples or invited to the Last Supper.


What Moral Advice Did Jesus Give?

"There be eunuchs which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it." (Matthew 19:12) Some believers, including church father Origen, took this verse literally and castrated themselves. Even metaphorically, this advice is in poor taste.
If you do something wrong with your eye or hand, cut/pluck it off (Matthew 5:29-30, in a sexual context).

Marrying a divorced woman is adultery. (Matthew 5:32)
Don't plan for the future. (Matthew 6:34)
Don't save money. (Matthew 6:19-20)
Don't become wealthy. (Mark 10:21-25)
Sell everything and give it to the poor. (Luke 12:33)
Don't work to obtain food. (John 6:27)
Don't have sexual urges. (Matthew 5:28)
Make people want to persecute you. (Matthew 5:11)
Let everyone know you are better than the rest. (Matthew 5:13-16)
Take money from those who have no savings and give it to rich investors. (Luke 19:23-26)
If someone steals from you, don't try to get it back. (Luke 6:30)
If someone hits you, invite them to do it again. (Matthew 5:39)
If you lose a lawsuit, give more than the judgment. (Matthew 5:40)
If someone forces you to walk a mile, walk two miles. (Matthew 5:41)
If anyone asks you for anything, give it to them without question. (Matthew 5:42)

Is this wise? Is this what you would teach your children?


Was Jesus Reliable?

Jesus told his disciples that they would not die before his second coming: "There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom" (Matthew 16:28). "Behold, I come quickly." (Revelation 3:11) It's been 2,000 years, and believers are still waiting for his "quick" return.

He mistakenly claimed that the mustard seed is "the least of all seeds" (Matt. 13:32), and that salt could "lose its savour" (Matthew 5:13).


Jesus said that whoever calls somebody a "fool" shall be in danger of hell fire (Matthew 5:22), yet he called people "fools" himself (Matthew 23:17).


Regarding his own truthfulness, Jesus gave two conflicting opinions: "If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true" (John 5:31), and "Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true" (John 8:14).


Was Jesus A Good Example?


He irrationally cursed a fig tree for being fruitless out of season (Matthew 21:18-19, and Mark 11:13-14). He broke the law by stealing corn on the Sabbath (Mark 2:23), and he encouraged his disciples to take a horse without asking permission (Matthew 21).


The "humble" Jesus said that he was "greater than the temple" (Matt 12:6), "greater than Jonah" (Matthew 12:41), and "greater than Solomon" (Matthew 12:42). He appeared to suffer from a dictator's "paranoia" when he said, "He that is not with me is against me" (Matthew 12:30).


Why Jesus?

Although other verses can be cited that portray Jesus in a different light, they do not erase the disturbing side of his character. The conflicting passages, however, prove that the New Testament is contradictory.


The "Golden Rule" had been said many times by earlier religious leaders. (Confucius: "Do not unto others that you would not have them do unto you.") "Turn the other cheek" encourages victims to invite further violence. "Love thy neighbor" applied only to fellow believers. (Neither the Jews nor Jesus showed much love to foreign religions). A few of the Beatitudes ("Blessed are the peacemakers") are acceptable, but they are all conditions of future reward, not based on respect for human life or values.


On the whole, Jesus said little that was worthwhile. He introduced nothing new to ethics (except hell). He instituted no social programs. Being "omniscient," he could have shared some useful science or medicine, but he appeared ignorant of such things (as if his character were merely the invention of writers stuck in the first century).


Many scholars are doubtful of the historical existence of Jesus. Albert Schweitzer said, "The historical Jesus will be to our time a stranger and an enigma." No first-century writer confirms the Jesus story. The New Testament is internally contradictory and contains historical errors. The story is filled with miracles and other outrageous claims. Consisting mostly of material borrowed from pagan religions, the Jesus story appears to be cut from the same fabric as all other myths and fables.


Why is Jesus so special? It would be more reasonable and productive to emulate real, flesh-and-blood human beings who have contributed to humanity--mothers who have given birth, scientists who have alleviated suffering, social reformers who have fought injustice--than to worship a character of such dubious qualities as Jesus.

That was a tremendous amount of "out of context" writing where verses
were concerned. Where did you find this? It's not an accurate account
of Christianity.

Let's start here. What did the Spanish Inquisition do that was Christian?

That was a tremendous amount of "out of context" writing. Where did
you find this? It's not an accurate account of Christianity.

This tract has been around for YEARS. The "out of context" argument has been thrown at it for YEARS. Nobody can ever say what exactly is "out of context."

The "out of context" argument is funny when fundamentalist christians really do take tons of biblical text out of context!

But the tract above? There's nothing "out of context" -- it just makes you uncomfortable. As it should. I warned you straight up front.

This tract has been around for YEARS. The "out of context" argument has
been thrown at it for YEARS. Nobody can ever say what exactly is "out
of context."
Not true. I can tell you exactly what is "out of context" as can most
who study the Word. It's not a difficult thing to do. Where do you want
to start?

I started with the question, "what did the Spanish Inquisition do that
was Christian?"

Some of the above points posted by zookeeper are nothing but garbage, because left out is what came before or after the verses cited. But, granted, what is out of context is a matter of interpretation.

There is a way of misinterpreting the Word of God (as presented in The Bible) that is referred to as Text Proofing.
The Scribes and Pharisees were experts at it.
Jesus was a very good poet, in his own way.

"The Screwtape Letters" (C.S. Lewis) is probably available for free online.