Does that mean if God wanted abortions stopped he would snap his fingers and they would stop? It appears God doesn't want abortions stopped does it.

He could have stopped slavery, the holocaust or any of the other genicides as well. But his decisions are mysterious and not for us to know, blah, blah, blah.

Like when a parent prays "please protect my child who is in school from the tornado that is moving his way".

Since May 20th I've been wondering why an omnipotent God would answer NO to that prayer. Can anyone here help me with that one?I'm sure all of our questions will be answered one day.

Does that mean if God wanted abortions stopped he would snap his fingers and they would stop? It appears God doesn't want abortions stopped does it.Agreed. I believe that everyone should follow their own beliefs and try and better themselves to follow their dreams and goals in life.

I'm sure all of our questions will be answered one day.

or not

He could have stopped slavery, the holocaust or any of the other genicides as well. But his decisions are mysterious and not for us to know, blah, blah, blah.

Yep... if what you pray for happens it's a a miricle from God and if not it's God's will. The guy is in a win win situation all the time.

or notWell that too lol You won't know until you know and even if you know, you still might not know.

Abortion . . . Slavery . . . Other Racial Injustice . . . Hatred . . . Murder . . . Greed . . . Covetousness.
We have Free Will here to Just Say No. Don't we?

Abortion . . . Slavery . . . Other Racial Injustice . . . Hatred . . . Murder . . . Greed . . . Covetousness.
We have Free Will here to Just Say No. Don't we?

Until somebody wants to force their free will over your free will.

Grandfather's Heaven
(by Naomi Shihab Nye)

My grandfather told me I had a choice.
Up or down, he said. Up or down.
He never mentioned east or west.

Grandpa stacked newspapers on his bed
and read them years after the news was relevant.
He even checked the weather reports.

Grandma was afraid of Grandpa
for some reason I never understood.
She tiptoed while he snored, rarely disagreed.

I liked Grandma because she gave me cookies
and let me listen to the ocean in her shell.
Grandma liked me even though my daddy was a Moslem.

I think Grandpa liked me too
though he wasn't sure what to do with it.
Just before he died, he wrote me a letter.

"I hear you're studying religion," he said.
"That's how people get confused.
Keep it simple. Down or up."


Until somebody wants to force their free will over your free will.
Somebody can want to force their free will over yours, but wanting isn't the same as doing.
The worst that could happen is that they could kill you . . . and then what . . ?

You guys should quit trying to use a message board to convince someone of the reality of God. It is like trying to teach someone blind from birth what yellow is. There is no real reference and context. Not everyone sees and/or believes. But everyone is responsible for their own souls.

Sometimes, when I read the poetry of Naomi Shihab Nye I feel as if God is talking to me.
(Yet that can't possibly be right on account of God is obviously a man. =)

This is probably why I'm more comfortable reading The Prophet, something by C.S. Lewis, or The Collected Works of J. Vernon McGee.

As my old, Reformed Church of Christ, pastor and mentor used to say: "What it's really all about is . . ."

You guys should quit trying to use a message board to convince someone of the reality of God. It is like trying to teach someone blind from birth what yellow is. There is no real reference and context. Not everyone sees and/or believes. But everyone is responsible for their own souls.

Nit-picky attention to detail: If you substituted Yet for But in the last sentence, it could possibly be one of the most effective (and truthful) paragraphs ever keyboarded in here.

I only mention this because the concept of "But" has been called "the great eraser"--negating everything preceding it--in terms of communication.
Of course, that observational suggestion may be most applicable to verbal, rather than written, communication. Yet who knows?

I suppose that is one of those "jots and tittles of The Law" deals, yet . . . Thanks! anyways.

You guys should quit trying to use a message board to convince someone of the reality of God. It is like trying to teach someone blind from birth what yellow is. There is no real reference and context. Not everyone sees and/or believes. But everyone is responsible for their own souls.

I also wish that people would quit using a message board to try to convince someone of the non-reality of God.

I also wish that people would quit using a message board to try to convince someone of the non-reality of God.

Yet . . . Isn't that simply a manifestation of what some call the Yin/Yang balance of so-called "reality"?
As The Bible reminds us (more than once): The Kingdom of God Is Within You. (it ain't way off there somewheres else.=)
Deal with than fact as you choose to so do.

^^^^^ that.

I wish people would quit using the sidewalk to convince me that there is a god. Or using loudhorns. Or knocking on my door. Or leaving tracks on my door. Or trying to change science curriculums. Or trying to build chapels at on our public land. Or building statues of biblical laws. Or using all the good radio frequencies on Sunday morning to broadcast the bad news. Or asking everyone to bow their heads while they say a prayer before sports games. Or asking my kids all the time where we go to church.

l stop when they stop. :-)

You're talking to the wrong crowd, then. You need to keep some chalk in your pocket and reply on the sidewalk, tell the person at your door, yell back at the loudhorn, keep a sign on your door saying you don't need the tract, vote against those who build chapels and statues, turn off your good radio, voice your disgust at the game, and ask the person talking to your kids which whorehouse they frequent?
I thought my desire was voiced in the proper forum for that which concerned me.
:-) (the equivalent of bless your heart, eh?)

Or move to Seattle :)

OK this may be :ot: but I've noticed that people who push their religious values either get upset or don't answer when you question God or the existance of God. For instance when they say they are opposed to abortion on religious values and you ask where in the Bible is talks about abortion they get all pissy or don't answer. There are some, even on here, that when talking about abortion all they can do is repeat that it's murder but never carry the discussion any further when asked. I find it odd when a person has such a strong conviction about something they either refuse to carry the conversation further or they have been brainwashed that something is bad but can't say why, ie.... sheeple. On the things I feel strongly about I can carry on a discussion why I feel that way and not just repeat the party line. Just thought I would toss this out, delete if necessary.

I'm ready! :-) Besides, paying two rents is no fun.

Will you continue to visit OKCTalk once you're gone?

I'm ready! :-) Besides, paying two rents is no fun.

Quitter! (Says the retired guy.....) :p

Best wishes for you and your family in the great Northwest.

You either have faith that GOD is real and creates everything for everyone or you don't. It's not something you can buy or teach. We're all born with it some choose to accept it and some choose not to. I personally believe that GOD is real I see him in all that surrounds me each day both good and bad. Its not up to me to ask questions why when bad things happen I don't need an explanation he choose our journey and I accept that. I suspect there will be plenty of good and bad people in hell and might be surprised by who makes it to heaven. What i do wish is that all people that don't believe in GOD is to stop attacking those that do.

OK this may be :ot: but I've noticed that people who push their religious values either get upset or don't answer when you question God or the existance of God. For instance when they say they are opposed to abortion on religious values and you ask where in the Bible is talks about abortion they get all pissy or don't answer. There are some, even on here, that when talking about abortion all they can do is repeat that it's murder but never carry the discussion any further when asked. I find it odd when a person has such a strong conviction about something they either refuse to carry the conversation further or they have been brainwashed that something is bad but can't say why, ie.... sheeple. On the things I feel strongly about I can carry on a discussion why I feel that way and not just repeat the party line. Just thought I would toss this out, delete if necessary.

Its pretty simple its one of the ten commandments "Thou shall not murder"

Should people that do believe in God then stop attacking those that don't? When you see people attempt to make public policy based on their faith that contradicts with others?

Why can't it go both ways?

Overall impressed with the general civility of this discussion. I like it when we can get into these topics without people going crazy.

Something I've always wondered about. Is being called "God-fearing" really a good thing? Should you really fear your deity? Especially if they are one of love and peace?

Typically I find fear being a way to command power over someone who is weak and unable to control themselves. When someone has fear they become susceptible to influence from any manner of intent and I can't see that as a good thing.

Like the "fear of the Lord is the begining of knowledge...".

I agree. Fear is never a good beginning for knowledge.
Fear of the Lord means Respect of the Lord.

Should people that do believe in God then stop attacking those that
don't?
Who does that? Is there a specific church? Most importantly, if they're
supposed to be Christian you should be asking, "what are these people
doing that's Christian.

On the other hand people who don't believe in God certainly attack
those who do. OKC Talk has many of those.

Should people that do believe in God then stop attacking those that don't? When you see people attempt to make public policy based on their faith that contradicts with others?

Why can't it go both ways?

What really gets me is how many folks who talk about Christianity here on this board have such a problem following the major tenant of Christianity - love your neighbor as yourself.

Seems like if you were a Christian, you would endeavor to show your beliefs by your actions.

What really gets me is how many folks who talk about Christianity here on this board have such a problem following the major tenant of Christianity - love your neighbor as yourself.

Seems like if you were a Christian, you would endeavor to show your beliefs by your actions.

Their reaction to Pope Francis' statements on predatory or unfettered capitalism and greed speaks volumes. They are less Christian and more "Paulian".

I'm a back slider. Just because we believe in GOD means to liberals that we can't hate or dislike sin.

I'm a back slider. Just because we believe in GOD means to liberals that we can't hate or dislike sin.

Has nothing to do with it. Jesus laid down two pretty simple commandments. If you're a Christian, you should at least try to live up to them, or at the very least, not enjoy your disdain for them.

I know, I know, "we're not perfect, just forgiven." Got it.

Of course, I should apologize, you didn't say you were Christian, only that you believed in "GOD." Since it's all caps, that may be a different god than I'm used to...

You either have faith that GOD is real and creates everything for everyone or you don't. It's not something you can buy or teach. We're all born with it some choose to accept it and some choose not to. I personally believe that GOD is real I see him in all that surrounds me each day both good and bad. Its not up to me to ask questions why when bad things happen I don't need an explanation he choose our journey and I accept that. I suspect there will be plenty of good and bad people in hell and might be surprised by who makes it to heaven. What i do wish is that all people that don't believe in GOD is to stop attacking those that do.

I don't think anyone is born with faith in the supernatural, it's learned behavior.

I don't know how anyone can wake up each morning and look around at everything and not believe in GOD.

Has nothing to do with it. Jesus laid down two pretty simple commandments. If you're a Christian, you should at least try to live up to them, or at the very least, not enjoy your disdain for them.

I know, I know, "we're not perfect, just forgiven." Got it.

Of course, I should apologize, you didn't say you were Christian, only that you believed in "GOD." Since it's all caps, that may be a different god than I'm used to...

GOD in caps is just so everyone knows its GOD.....and not just any god......that I am referring to

I don't know how anyone can wake up each morning and look around at everything and not believe in GOD.

I could understand that from the whole "unique" point of view that many held for generations. That was until we started to discover billions of other stars with orbiting planets and what...something like 50 billion Earth-like planets in just the Milky Way alone. The uniqueness of life on Earth will be completely dead in probably 20 years once we get on Mars and can get into the fossils there.

GOD in caps is just so everyone knows its GOD.....and not just any god......that I am referring to

Got it. You're Jewish. (Or Muslim?)

I want to say Jewish folks spell it G-D.

I don't think anyone is born with faith in the supernatural, it's learned
behavior.
Correct. Nobody is born with faith. You learn to trust or you don't.

I don't know how anyone can wake up each morning and look around at
everything and not believe in GOD.
There are many people in this world who honestly believe they are
being scientific or using logic and reason but they limit or reject
information based on prejudice which isn't scientific, logical or reasoned.

MUst be awfully depressing to believe this is all there is...that there is no purpose in your life other than to just be an animal and die.

Fear of the Lord means Respect of the Lord.

Not to take sides here, yet . . .
Truth Or Tradition - Translating phobos as fear or respect. How was it used in the biblical world? (http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=738)

Believe It or Forget It.
(in the end it is all about you and your choices)

Indeed, I find it absolutely logical to attribute anything I can't explain to a god who's so definition arises from texts written by the most ignorant people on the planet at the time. That only makes sense.

Indeed, I find it absolutely logical to attribute anything I can't explain to a god who's so definition arises from texts written by the most ignorant people on the planet at the time. That only makes sense.

"'who's so definition'"?

Indeed, I find it absolutely logical to attribute anything I can't explain to a god who's so definition arises from texts written by the most ignorant people on the planet at the time. That only makes sense.

It's better to believe ignorant writings on this thread, right.

Ignorant people confuse ancient for ignorant.

My old--not quite ancient--pastor/mentor once quipped: "Love [fear] God [for real], then do what you want to do."
no . . . he wasn't a Buddhist. simply a Man of God.
(church o' Christ)

It's better to believe ignorant writings on this thread, right.

Ignorant people confuse ancient for ignorant.

It's usually better to believe verifiable facts.

My old--not quite ancient--pastor/mentor once quipped: "Love [fear] God [for real], then do what you want to do."
no . . . he wasn't a Buddhist. simply a Man of God.
(church o' Christ)

How can love and fear become one and the same? That's kind of messed up.

How can love and fear become one and the same? That's kind of messed up.

You're not married are you :D

How can love and fear become one and the same? That's kind of messed up.

Apparently you didn't click the link that might help to clarify and answer your question.
(asking that sort of question is the first step away from the pit of intentional ignorance)

How can love and fear become one and the same? That's kind of messed up.


You're not married are you :D

Stockholm Syndrome?

"'who's so definition'"?

LOL, that too is pretty messed up. The sad part is it took me waaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy too long to figure out what was wrong with that phrase. God help me, I just ain't that smart.

You're not married are you :D

It is forbidden to insert that type of real life observational application of principles into a discussion such as this. =)
(and I ain't a roamin' catholic, neither. nor charismatic.)

I am, however, blessed with being married to a real angel.
(in regard to the really important stuff)

I think that an interesting "test of faith/non-ignorant bible study" might be for all doubters to read The Book of The Acts of the Apostles, then go back a bit (to the prequel) and study up on the Original Disciples.

It is my--probably flawed--observation that there are far too many Judas in this world and not nearly enough Barnabas.

It's usually better to believe verifiable facts.

There has been more verification of the Bible than any historical documents ever. But, believe what you want. You and your beliefes are only your responsibility. So, good luck.

There has been more verification of the Bible than any historical documents ever. But, believe what you want. You and your beliefes are only your responsibility. So, good luck.

Well then please do share. I'm open minded.

I feel exactly the same way. Except the opposite conclusion. Especially Jehovah. I can't see how anyone can believe that he exists.

I have on the knock on the door one Saturday morning a month at 0935 telling me Jehovah does exist. I have learned to be doing one of the three S's during that time period.

It's usually better to believe verifiable facts.In which case, I trust you don't believe in Quantum Mechanics, quarks, neutrinos, or any of the rest of current theoretical physics...

Or, for that matter, many areas of advanced mathematics, such as Set Theory and its axioms, for example, the existence of The Empty Set which is a member of all other sets, including the set of sets-which-do-not-contain-the-empty-set -- or the disproof of Xeno's paradox...

Much, if not all, of modern science is based on faith; it's just faith in something different from that involved in the spiritual realm...

There has been more verification of the Bible than any historical documents ever. But, believe what you want. You and your beliefes are only your responsibility. So, good luck.

It might be one step along the path to . . . Harmony? . . . to remember that Responsibility must be balanced with Accountability along with Authority in order to effectively actualize the potentiality of all the God Given Goodness that resides within each and every one of us. (choose not to crush greeters at walmart nor butt in line for a sale, e.g. to wit =)

(redo of some old-time vaguely assembly of god/semi-pentacostal holiness preacher/evangelist/tv rainmaker message, from back in the day that resonated with me ever since I heard it. because he was speaking from the heart and it was True.)

In which case, I trust you don't believe in Quantum Mechanics, quarks, neutrinos, or any of the rest of current theoretical physics...

Or, for that matter, many areas of advanced mathematics, such as Set Theory and its axioms, for example, the existence of The Empty Set which is a member of all other sets, including the set of sets-which-do-not-contain-the-empty-set -- or the disproof of Xeno's paradox...

Much, if not all, of modern science is based on faith; it's just faith in something different from that involved in the spiritual realm...

The difference is as you eluded to is that men of science call such things theories and not indisputable fact. It's not a matter of faith but rather a case of logic, reasoning and the scientific method. I gotta admit though you posted one heck of a google worthy gem. I love it when people introduce me to new concepts. Thanks.

In which case, I trust you don't believe in Quantum Mechanics, quarks, neutrinos, or any of the rest of current theoretical physics...

Or, for that matter, many areas of advanced mathematics, such as Set Theory and its axioms, for example, the existence of The Empty Set which is a member of all other sets, including the set of sets-which-do-not-contain-the-empty-set -- or the disproof of Xeno's paradox...

Much, if not all, of modern science is based on faith; it's just faith in something different from that involved in the spiritual realm...

Once again, well stated. Thank you.

(what sort of cracks me up these days are the Modern Myth Makers with their wild stories about String Theories and so forth)

I don't know how anyone can wake up each morning and look around at everything and not believe in GOD.

http://i.imgur.com/uF2sq.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/uF2sq.jpg

In the Cosmic Scheme of Things . . . thinking of Neil deGrasse Tyson as god . . .
Is akin to thinking of Carl Sagan as the New Messiah