With 4,000 students and tens of thousands employees, the Health Sciences Center is a major asset to OKC and only about a mile from the middle of our central business district. Yet, these two areas are completely separated by a large freeway.

On the graphic below the proposed Phase II (or III) streetcar route is shown but especially if the GE Global Research Center goes in the HSC area, there would be tremendous benefit to better linking these two massive, important and ever-growing economic centers.

Other cities have buried freeways, built parks over them... What can we do to solve this problem, other than the streetcar?

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hsc1a.jpg

I would support burying the freeway. Other cities have done that like Boston with the big dig and Phoenix with I-10. It would be cool being that there aren't many such tunnels in this region of the country.

From a walkability standpoint, a ton of damage has already been done that will be very hard to correct to make it urban.

I think the 4th and Lincoln area is especially critical. It's easy to get someone to walk under an underpass as long as there is a destination on the other side. We see it with the railroad viaduct separating the CBD from Bricktown and Deep Deuce. We saw it with the old I-40 where people would park on the other side and cross underneath. We see it in the pedestrian tunnel under I-40 linking BHD to LBT.

Overpasses: very rare to see people walking across them for some reason. Lack of shelter maybe.

So, to me the 4th and Lincoln area is very critical in getting development to form a streetwall that coincides with the development on the west of I-235, using the underpass as a pedestrian tunnel. (Lighting and some sort of public art to make it better/feel safer) and then transition back to an urban streetwall on the other side.

With some proper development and streetscape and sidewalk improvements, we could see 4th and Lincoln become a nice pedestrian corridor.

http://gyazo.com/aa137b65b762ae383f79553d680fc476.png

http://gyazo.com/4d0e4fa8d93fbf908f20a5eab6fcd834.png


Closer view:
http://gyazo.com/5f2d2723a285aa50e7a3783b82e08c8a.png

HSC is never (not anytime soon anyway) going to be walkable to CBD. Heck the HSC is not walkable on its own. Which is one of the issues in bringing the streetcar there. Where do you go? And who do you serve?

I agree with you, Boulder. But, that doesn't mean we should completely give up. It will take a lot of time to un-do a lot of the walkability issues. It was built around the driving commuter, and still is.

The issue, IMO, is tying together the residential area of Deep Deuce / AA with the neighborhood south of 4th. That way, people that work or go to school can fill in the area between the two.

Then you've created a linkage between the two areas that can fill in and connect.

The HSC is about the same distance from the CBD as the main developments in Midtown.

Right just with a giant raised interstate in between

I agree with Catch22. We need to start having zoning that requires the street wall. The OIPA's buidling set back is suburban and that area is a waste. Everything east of 2-35 is suburban developed. Expanding the density zoning is a must to tie the two together.

Also eliminate the cloverleafs. That is a ton of wasted real estate creating half of the barrier.

I've walked from Deep Deuce to the HSC a few times a year. You can also walk to 8th St. and catch the shuttle as well. It's not bad, really as long as the weather is decent.

You have to decide what kind of city you want, because the city is just a means to way of life. - Enrique Penalosa

While OKC has made some progress but the needle is still pegged far to the 'automobile' side of the guage. It is going to take a lot of people (maybe over 100,000) just to fill in Deep Deuce, CBD, Brictown, Midtown (which will become 3 or 4 unique neighboods), Auto Alley, Film Row and Core to Shore. Instead of a uniform pattern of density iminating out from downtown the 2nd ring urbanism will probable be more 'tent pole' in natue. HSC, Plaza District, Capial Hill, Stockyard City, Paseo, and maybe even Brittany can develop as centers of their own neighborhoods, with high density at the center with decreasing density as you move away from it. A cross-section would look like this: 'High - medium - low - medium - high - medium - low - medium - high', with the high's being about 1 mile apart and containing the transit stops.

The next step shouldn't be how to connect downtown and HSC, it should be to create a defined center of the HSC and urbanize it. Once you have that then connecting high density nodes is easy. I also wouldn't shed a tear if I-235 was removed when its initial life expectancy is reached.

So how do you urbanize the HSC? Step 1 should be to create a development plan for HSC that actually involves the public. To my knowledge the previous plans were developed by a single entity with little to no public input; and if they did seek public input in the past it is safe to say a lot more people are interested in the subject now that any time in the last 50 years. This plan should include deciding if HSC should be a mixed-use neighborhood or a medical district, moving away from modern single use zoning to a form based smart code, and incentives for in-fill.

Just a thought: As a now-retired Physician, I can tell all that in many cases, patients cannot walk (due to various medical problems) over 1/2 a standard city block. Whatever conveyance they use, should be able to let them depart from it almost at the doorstep of their destination. Of course, this is much more easily accomplished in a city of 800,000 + which is only 7 x 7 miles (49 square miles).

We here in San Francisco, are fortunate, in that many city modes of transportation can let patients out in front of each medical clinic, hospital or other health care unit, of which they are members, or prefer to access for their medical care. If that is not possible, many facilities manage their own vans which take patents to-and-from places on their campus areas... all for free.

Just give this some thought. Thanks.

We here in San Francisco, are fortunate, in that many city modes of transportation can let patients out in front of each medical clinic, hospital or other health care unit, of which they are members, or prefer to access for their medical care.

That would be great if in OKC the front door was adjacent to the sidewalk where public transit operates. Even with a streetcar most people will have to walk across a flower bed, a hedge row, across a massive parking lot, or up a driveway without a sidewalk just to get to the front door of nearly every building in the HSC campus.

HSC needs to be made walkable first.

^ The default OKC solution is valet parking at hospitals.....for now.

I posted this comment over on the GE Research Center thread:

"Given that Miles & Associates designed the nearby PHF Research Park it will be interesting to see how urban the new site design is. Will an urban Midtown expand over the highway as the greater downtown districts are stitched back together?"

And Pete then pointed out that issue was exactly why he had started this thread. Perhaps cafeboeuf can answer - which body has design approval over this area?

I've given up worrying about it. The current leadership has embraced a suburban design and there is no movement on any level (particularly political) to change.

Lets double the density of downtown and hope we set an example that other adjacent districts will follow.

JFK neighborhood is probably the best area where would could achieve density through new design. OUHSC proper is on a different path.

I’ve been thinking about this problem for a couple of years, but this thread gave me the impetus to put it down on paper as a blog post. I sketched this up over Thanksgiving. Click through for more information.

http://andrewkstewart.wordpress.com/2013/12/05/centennial-park/ (http://andrewkstewart.wordpress.com/2013/12/05/centennial-park/)

http://andrewkstewart.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/i-235_forum-image.jpg (http://andrewkstewart.wordpress.com/2013/12/05/centennial-park/)

Love it, should be good for MAPS9 ;)

That's awfully similar to Woodall Rogers in Dallas, right?

Yes. The same concept as Klyde Warren Park.

I would love to see something so ambitious to tie in the two areas, it would also create huge development opportunities. A project of this magnitude would be over a Billion Dollars, I'm guessing?

THAT's what I'm talking about!

Awesome job, Andrew.

That's a pretty amazing thing to think about.

Has anyone else seen this proposed concept? I know it's wishful thinking but wanted to see what others thought. I like the idea of re-connecting the grid and making better use of interstate space in the urban core.

http://andrewkstewart.wordpress.com/2013/12/05/centennial-park/

5181


Mods - if you can change title to I-235 instead of I-240, it was an oversight on my part.

Yes Please!

I am beginning to see a pattern here. All your designs make "way too much sense". If you are not the Lead on All Planning for OKC, then you should be. Great work again!

Whoever is placing these Clover-leafs in any of our new projects, should be ground for immediate dismissal. Dallas took the Central Expressway 75 and tightened their designs up with a business friendly approach. I like your approach so much more. This should not be a MAPS project, but a project that needs to happen immediately by the ODOT. Well done.

That is so sick!!!!!!!

Neat idea. Wish we had done exactly this with the new MAPS 3 Park and new I-40.

Damn ODOT.

Cuatro de Mayo is at it again. Good lord will someone get him a gig on the OKC planning staff even if only as a consultant in common sense and vision? (That isn't meant to demean the folks on the planning staff now - they have a pretty tough draw in the city staff power structure.)

Any one have a spare 1,000,000,000 dollars.

I don't see any highway off-ramps for anyone going north or southbound on I-235.

Really like this concept. It needs to be updated with the GE Research Center at NE 10 & Walnut.
http://andrewkstewart.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/i-235_final.jpg

Great idea.

Yes & yes please!

Any one have a spare 1,000,000,000 dollars.

I pictured you saying that in character as Dr Evil! :wink:

Wow. Yes.

Lazio85 makes a good point; those ramps are probably the most-used access to downtown (and OUHSC) from other parts of the city. Removing that access altogether would probably have some crippling unintended consequences. But it seems there could probably be some sort of solution/tweak that addresses this.

just a point, isn't this "I-235" and not I-240?

Anyway, Love the new "Centennial Park" over I-235 yet still maintaining the freeway passage. Hope this idea gains traction and reality someday.

Here is a section of the E5 around Paris. If you get a chance go to Google Earth and see how much they have built over this highway.

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/KerryinJax/ParisE5_zps4e543233.jpg

Wouldn't the area above I-235 be perfect for the a new soccer stadium in OKC?

In Cuatro's map 235 comes out of the ground at 4th, meaning having a stadium in Bricktown wouldn't work, as the highway would have to elevate to get over the river and I-40. In that scenario, I'm not sure between 4th and 10th and between downtown proper and HSC is the best place for a stadium because it creates a new divide, which we're trying to get rid of by burying 235, right?

That all depends on what the site plan looks like. If they put a giant surface parking lot around the stadium, then yes, that would create a barrier. If they made it a neighborhood stadium then it would increase walkability. The stadium I posted above has housing units within 100 feet of it. The no-mans land along the I-235 corridor is nearly 1000 feet wide.

OIPA
Toby Keith Kids Corral
Embassy Suites
GE

Is there really any interest in making the HSC area walkable and connecting it to a streetcar line?

Wouldn't the area above I-235 be perfect for the a new soccer stadium in OKC?

JTF, ...that would be a great spot for the New MLS Soccer / Olympic Stadium. ;-)

Lazio85 makes a good point; those ramps are probably the most-used access to downtown (and OUHSC) from other parts of the city. Removing that access altogether would probably have some crippling unintended consequences. But it seems there could probably be some sort of solution/tweak that addresses this.

For example, I would have to exit at 13th street and drive through all of Automobile Alley to get to work everyday. Easily increasing my commute time with current new developments for everything between there and Midtown (not complaining that is a good thing). I will play around with this concept as well and get it out here as soon as possible. Great work on what you have developed so far CuatrodeMayo!

Steve's update on what is being looked at and considered.

http://www.oklahoman.com/article/5364931?embargo=1


After spurning commercial and retail development for three decades, a sharp reversal is about to take place in the 300-acre area sometimes known as the Oklahoma Health Center, or the Health Sciences District, or the OU Medical Center.
The answer being pursued by the area’s biggest players is an “innovation district,” which would add some color and vibrancy to what is now a very institutional neighborhood.
A Brookings Institute report released in June provided Williams with inspiration; the analysis showed how cities across the world are creating “innovation districts” out of old industrialized areas, suburban science and research parks, and around institutions located in or near central city downtowns.

Steve's update on what is being looked at and considered.

http://www.oklahoman.com/article/5364931?embargo=1

Hell. Yes.

Officials seek to liven up institutional atmosphere of Health Sciences District in Oklahoma City | NewsOK.com (http://m.newsok.com/article/5364931)

This is what we've been begging for. I'm really excited for this.

This is what we've been begging for. I'm really excited for this.

+1

The urbanization of this area, combined with a plan to heal the scar caused by the Broadway extension, would be phenomenal.

The first steps are underway, with a resolution of support approved by the Oklahoma City Urban Renewal Authority on Tuesday. As all the area’s involved organizations sign on, a consultant will be hired and plans will be drawn up on how to recruit developers and determine whether a new governing body is needed.

This area (HSC) will integrate a collage of various key research components along with a school to develop the state's top math & science students. The future of our city (medical, biomedical, pharmaceutical, oil & gas technology), a 'Rembrandt' for research & technology in our backyard. A real tapestry of talent in an area to be redeveloped.

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.607997864288649299&pid=15.1&P=0 https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRhtwY-yYZSQX_vRDsKp_MoMvQjVVWkdWA7NxcJ2Es_4jRAi5_BsA https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQIUf5MbHUBy7WeQAqxNjKg9y_TRZXch N6k1sPik_Jg1xgHNQX_Og

G.E. Global Research Center, OKC . . . . . . . Charles & Peggy Stephenson Cancer Center . . . . . . Children's' Hospital

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.607990464064586876&pid=15.1&P=0 https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRot63irV9o2Xj03jZDSWXCQyVpk-_xllJReGvBmnbgc56WqcnF https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608016405665941740&pid=15.1&P=0

V.A. Hospital . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . OU College of Medicine . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . OU PHF Research Park


Someone needs to figure out something and come up with a solution for this area?

Does Oklahoma City have any 'clue' about the potential this area possesses.

There will be more spin-off firms as the G.E. Global Research Technology Center and the research industry expands & develops.

After my doctor's appointment, I walked this area for a bit and drove around it for a little while. I'm convinced that just a bit of savvy retrofitting and an urban building code for future projects could make this area very walkable. It's not as far gone as seems. Some basic requirements will be:

1. Mixed use developments on surface lots, including residential/retail/commercial
2. Eliminating the grassy moats fronting NE 10th St
3. A possible tower or two to consolidate a couple of the lower land-use value offices.
4. This area could use both a cultural anchor and a recreational anchor of some sort.
5. Lincoln and Lottie represent real opportunities to connect downtown to the Eastside -- there needs to be some way to make these attractive, invited boulevards

we need urban master plans for OKC in general.

Someone needs to figure out something and come up with a solution for this area?

Does Oklahoma City have any 'clue' about the potential this area possesses.

There will be more spin-off firms as the G.E. Global Research Technology Center and the research industry expands & develops.

Umm, I think that is what the planning for an "innovation district" will be all about.

Umm, I think that is what the planning for an "innovation district" will be all about.

A step in the right direction. What functions will this 'innovation district' have; something that the city will abide by or will it just be another advisory group with gums?

I drove through that area on 235 just last night and one idea I had, though lofty, was building a wide bridge across 235. Make it like a hundred or couple hundred feet wide and keep enough to put a layer of dirt and maybe a bike/walking path on. The end result would be a short tunnel on 235 and the two districts connected.

I drove through that area on 235 just last night and one idea I had, though lofty, was building a wide bridge across 235. Make it like a hundred or couple hundred feet wide and keep enough to put a layer of dirt and maybe a bike/walking path on. The end result would be a short tunnel on 235 and the two districts connected.

His name is CuatroDeMayo. He is the resident badass of OKCTalk
https://andrewkstewart.wordpress.com/2013/12/05/centennial-park/

I would rather see Cuatro's idea come to life than Core to Shore! This would be so awesome and truly connect the neighborhoods and expand downtown. I guess it is a fantasy considering the city would have to work with ODOT to ever get this implemented.

Not to mention it would probably be a billion dollar project. Maybe some day when our population has tripled. MAPS VII maybe?

His name is CuatroDeMayo. He is the resident badass of OKCTalk
https://andrewkstewart.wordpress.com/2013/12/05/centennial-park/

But no longer a resident of OKC :(

Like many of my ideas (Market Circle, etc), these drawings are created merely to spur conversations, stir the imagination, and suggest change. It's more about the IDEA of spanning the freeway than a an actual, viable, plan for doing so.

Like many of my ideas (Market Circle, etc), these drawings are created merely to spur conversations, stir the imagination, and suggest change. It's more about the IDEA of spanning the freeway than a an actual, viable, plan for doing so.

While we're on the subject (and now slightly off topic), I want to drop in and say how fantastic your Market Circle concept is. Seriously great work there. I absolutely love it. 10/10, would build.