So people would have to walk through the metropolitan to get to it? I support a pedestrian bridge as well but am not sure where it would best go.

Oh maybe that's right where the metropolitan ends? But then there's GE on the other side?

Oh maybe that's right where the metropolitan ends? But then there's GE on the other side?

This one, right where the Metropolitan ends on the North and span the new connection off ramp to 10th just South of GE. There should be enough right away there.

This would save multiple millions from capping the road and connect pedestrians / bicyclist safely to both sides.

yeah but then there's nothingness on the other side for quite a ways... but I would like a more hospitable crossing vs 10th or really any other place.

yeah but then there's nothingness on the other side for quite a ways... but I would like a more hospitable crossing vs 10th or really any other place.

I'm just looking at where the volume of people are located on each side of 235, and this connection puts it in the center.

The cap is pretty cool in Dallas, but expanding the street car is probably a better route.

If they really wanted to connect downtown with HSC they should either remove the freeway or bury it. It seems to me capping freeways just covers up the problem. If you have to spend that much money to do that just remove it.

capping=bury, no?

capping=bury, no?
Well I meant tunneling the entire thing from 44 to 40. But that would be extremely expensive. It was hard for a city like Boston to do and I think it was over 20 billion.

I support capping it, but imagine that displaced Edmond-bound 235 traffic flooding the downtown streets while it was being capped... ouch...

Agree, that this will be an inconvenience for all; however, that's the price of progress.

Cheaper than capping - and perhaps more innovative and walkabiltiy-oriented - would be to revive and do a modern take on the concept of the Pulteney Bridge in Bath, England. Take the existing bridges and widen them, with commercial structures lining each side. That would give the impression of continuous walkable urban sidewalk from Automobile Alley/Deep Deuce to the other side of the highway. If OUHSC knits itself into a more walkable urban area you then have uninterrupted walkable density between both places. You'd never even know the highway was there.

The bridges would have to be upgraded for streetcar, anyway. Do it at the same time.


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ef/Shops_on_Pulteney_Bridge.JPG

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b1/Pulteney_Bridge_Bath_wide_view.jpg

The widened bridges with amenities would be a nice alternative.

I love Bath. It's an incredible place.

Streetcar can be expanded via the 4th street underpass without the need to retrofit bridges. It also enables the possible continued expansion and revitalization of the JFK neighborhood. There is no need to build more bridges.

It seems to me that business community is trying to stimulate another big ticket MAPS item that people can only dream about.

Ponte Vecchio in Florence is a similar bridge treatment, though pedestrian-only rather than vehicular. I too think creation of new bridges - especially those that separate pedestrian and vehicular traffic completely - is unneeded. But retrofitting existing bridges is a reasonable approach and probably not pie-in-the-sky. It's only adding better urbanism to already-existing structure.

And UP, are you saying a single point of access for the streetcar is optimal? Wouldn't it be best to enter OUHSC on one street alignment and exit on another? More territory covered that way...

Ponte Vecchio:

http://theluxeinsider.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/DSC_0048.jpg

Will the taxes generated by urbanizing the cap be enough to cover the cost of maintaing it? I think the only fiscally responsible solution is to remove I-235 at the end of its life-span and restore the grid with density requirements that can produce enough tax income to maintain it.

The Klyde Warren Park cap itself cost $44.5 million for 5.2 acres; the cost per square foot ended up around $196.
The area proposed for the I-235 cap would is approximately 9.2 acres and cost $78 million ($81 million after accounting for inflation).

Most of the money raised for park design and construction came from various private and some public sources in Dallas. If serious about this proposal, we would need strong private commitment to doing the same.

Streetcar can be expanded via the 4th street underpass without the need to retrofit bridges. It also enables the possible continued expansion and revitalization of the JFK neighborhood. There is no need to build more bridges...

I agree that 4th Street would be the logical crossing, but the streetcar can be expanded to cover the planet and it will still only be a novelty item. Who is going to wait 10 minutes for a ride when it takes 5 minutes to walk?

Anyone who has crossed I-235 on foot or bike can tell you that 4th Street, Harrison/8th Street, 10th Street, and 13th Street are dangerous & ugly traverses. The sources of people and destinations for people within the Innovation District are increasing... pedestrian pathway additions and improvements are needed.

Everyone screamed about the lack of pedestrian friendliness of the original Boulevard design... I-235 was designed with the same disregard for pedestrians; it severs a burgeoning and vital district. Improvements are needed.

Streetcar is most certainly not a novelty item. It is packed day in and day out on Portland, and it is not a tourist ride. It is a very pure form of meaningful transit.

Streetcar is most certainly not a novelty item. It is packed day in and day out on Portland, and it is not a tourist ride. It is a very pure form of meaningful transit.

How pure and meaningful is it when 150 people from a 150-acre area want to go to & from lunch on 9th Street at the same time? We're not talking about transiting from St. Anthony Hospital to a Bricktown apartment... we're talking about OU Med, GE, & OURP, etc.

The OKC streetcar is a novelty item.

Streetcar will start out as a novelty but will be essential in 10 years. Notice when they put in the Kilpatrick the boom around memorial? Same thing will happen around the street car routes. Businesses love to be near access. Roads plus street car access? It's going to boom and then some. were already seeing it with some of the projects announced for AA. It'll hit critical mass and everyone will be clamoring to expand it all the way up classen to whole foods. Then more boom.

The OKC streetcar is a novelty item.

In the beginning yes, but development will occur around it and it will become a legitimate mode of transportation for those living in the core.

The novelty "adventure" that it will have for the first month or two will actually help secure the streetcar's success by introducing people to a new form of transit.

It's hard to convince some people just from lines on a map. And that is understandable. But hopefully when they give it a try during its novelty period, they will become sold on just how effective it is.

We just opened the Orange Line on the Max up here last month. Thousands of people showed up to be the first riders, and tons of businesses moved in around the line with grand openings on the opening date of the new rail line. While streetcar and light rail are not the same, they will have the same impact for the immediate area it serves.

It will be a smash success.

we surely do not need another district, drop the innovation moniker please!!!! It's fine the way it is with true defined areas such as AAlley (which is rather historic) and the Oklahoma Health Center (which is very specific and encompassing of the area). What is an Innovation District and why does OKC need said taking away the previously defined names??? This stuff is just getting out of hand IMO and is really making OKC look rather childish and reaching for straws when we don't need to be.

come up with a name for the Core 2 Shore if they want to name something, otherwise - we can surely say that Innovation exists in the Oklahoma Health Center but we don't need to name it Innovation District to show that's what happens there. ... Good grief!

we surely do not need another district, drop the innovation moniker please!!!! It's fine the way it is with true defined areas such as AAlley (which is rather historic) and the Oklahoma Health Center (which is very specific and encompassing of the area). What is an Innovation District and why does OKC need said taking away the previously defined names??? This stuff is just getting out of hand IMO and is really making OKC look rather childish and reaching for straws when we don't need to be.

come up with a name for the Core 2 Shore if they want to name something, otherwise - we can surely say that Innovation exists in the Oklahoma Health Center but we don't need to name it Innovation District to show that's what happens there. ... Good grief!
I have no problem with it. What they call it matters not a wit. It's what they accomplish that matters.

we surely do not need another district, drop the innovation moniker please!!!! It's fine the way it is with true defined areas such as AAlley (which is rather historic) and the Oklahoma Health Center (which is very specific and encompassing of the area). What is an Innovation District and why does OKC need said taking away the previously defined names??? This stuff is just getting out of hand IMO and is really making OKC look rather childish and reaching for straws when we don't need to be.

I agree. I think the city should support its different neighborhoods and their unique identity, but not everything has to be a "district." The Wheeler District is probably the worst offender in this.

^^^^^^
And yet if it lives up to the master plan and renderings it will be the most district of all districts that have ever districted in OKC.

^^^^^^
And yet if it lives up to the master plan and renderings it will be the most district of all districts that have ever districted in OKC.

Bro, do you even district?

How pure and meaningful is it when 150 people from a 150-acre area want to go to & from lunch on 9th Street at the same time? We're not talking about transiting from St. Anthony Hospital to a Bricktown apartment... we're talking about OU Med, GE, & OURP, etc.

The OKC streetcar is a novelty item.

What are you talking about?? That's exactly what this project has always aspired to do.

What are you talking about?? That's exactly what this project has always aspired to do.

Aspirations vs. reality... In any 150 acre area served by the streetcar, how many stops will there be, and what will the wait time be between cars? The 150 lunch-goers spread across a 150-acre chunk of the Innovation District can likely WALK directly to their lunch destination on 9th Street in less time than it takes to wait for a car. And how many cars would it take to serve the 150 people if they did choose to walk to a stop and wait? I bet you'd spend half your lunch hour walking to the stop, and waiting for a car. Not to mention there are NO STOPS planned on the East side of I-235!

The streetcar might make sense to those who live near the line, or if have time to eat lunch in Bricktown, or Midtown. I've been talking about improving the walkability within the District... reducing the effects of the I-235 barrier is necessary. The streetcar won't address that issue.

Aspirations vs. reality... In any 150 acre area served by the streetcar, how many stops will there be, and what will the wait time be between cars? The 150 lunch-goers spread across a 150-acre chunk of the Innovation District can likely WALK directly to their lunch destination on 9th Street in less time than it takes to wait for a car. And how many cars would it take to serve the 150 people if they did choose to walk to a stop and wait? I bet you'd spend half your lunch hour walking to the stop, and waiting for a car. Not to mention there are NO STOPS planned on the East side of I-235!

The streetcar might make sense to those who live near the line, or if have time to eat lunch in Bricktown, or Midtown. I've been talking about improving the walkability within the District... reducing the effects of the I-235 barrier is necessary. The streetcar won't address that issue.

I'm really not sure what you're talking about.

The streetcar as it is currently planned obviously won't solve the walkability problems of the OUHSC area. For one, it doesn't go to the OUHSC area. This isn't a problem with it, though. It just doesn't go over there. Talking about a potential future streetcar expansion is different. I think everyone agrees that the OUHSC area needs walkability improvements to really thrive. No one is disagreeing with that. The streetcar can aid that, but it won't solve it all by itself.

None of this means that the streetcar is just a carnival ride, however.

A streetcar stop should be within a 5 minute walk of any area served by the streetcar. It should run on a set schedule. If you know which stop you're going to use, you should know when that streetcar will be along. Sure, if you're new to using it, you might time your arrival wrong. You might wait 20 minutes for a car. But once you know the schedule, you'll time your lunch break to coincide with the streetcar. So if there's a stop 4 minutes from the front door of your building, and the car gets there at 11:57, then you'll want to be out the door by 11:53. Once you have the timing down, it won't be a problem.

Will the streetcar be crowded? Probably at times. Will it take all 150 people to lunch at the same time? Probably not. I'm not sure how many a car holds. But not being a magical cure all doesn't make it a novelty item.

First of all, it is absolutely stupid idea to build a $100+ million streetcar system through Health Sciences Center so that people can go to lunch. Such a system should only be built when streetcar can be used to connect thousands of new downtown housing units to thousands of jobs. An even better and broader goal is to eventually extend that system through the NE side, through 23rd street, and up to the "Adventure District".

However, an even stupider idea is spending hundreds of millions to cap a major interstate highway. Let's beautify this city where it counts, reinvest in major corridors that cost less first, and build critical mass where it is less expensive.

If I had my druthers, the first streetcar expansion would be from Dewey/11th to Classen, 16th street through the Plaza, and up Blackwelder to OCU. I know that it would work there and have lasting and meaningful impact.

If we are talking about hundreds of millions, which we are, spend the money where it will have the most impact and let Health Sciences keep their cars and massive parking lots. Or spend a few million on good sidewalks and crosswalks to the existing bridges if connectivity on foot bothers you that much.

There are tons of sidewalks all across the OUHSC campus - and many opportunities here to shift the focus from cars to public transit like a streetcar, freeing up room for more buildings and more density. You must remember that, yes, there are a ton of people who work over here, but there are also a ton of people who come here for the services provided at places like the VA, or Children's Hospital, or even the Oklahoma Department of Health and Vital Records offices. I work over here and I see people walking across campus most of the day, and I know that a streetcar extension would work quite well! After hours ridership could be enhanced by ensuring that the Embassy Suites at 8th and Phillips, as well as McGuire Plaza and Jeltz Senior Center at 12th and Lottie, had stops somewhere nearby.

There is no doubt, Health Sciences is transitioning. But it is a slow transition. I have spent thousands of hours studying the NE side and serving on the Alternatives Analysis Committee. The problem is, Health Sciences streetcar really doesn't gain the numbers to justify the investment until a Regional Transit Authority is formed and the commuting mode shifts from automobile to commuter rail. When that happens, Health Sciences streetcar becomes essential to providing connectivity through the district.

Now arguably, we could say we want to do this now and it would take eight - ten years or more to build it. So, it is probably not a bad discussion to have in terms of a long-term investment.

So in that sense, the arguments dwells is making are irrelevant as the context in modes changes in the next ten years. Streetcar is no longer a "novelty" once you introduce Regional Rail. And we are doing so. That is happening.

Also, this particular Health Sciences streetcar line meets all of the criteria for Federal Funding. I just want us to think before the business community rushes to shift MAPS type agendas to focus hundreds of millions in an area that is just now finding its footing while there are so many areas in which arguably the money could have greater quality of life impact. This needs to be very carefully thought through in a holistic context. The 2016 and 2017 MAPS 4 and GO Bond essentially sets the developmental investment focus of the city for the next 15 - 20 years. Lets invest wisely.

I know a lot of people who live downtown / midtown who work at OUHS who would use it to get to work. I also know several people who are going to be moving to the area once the new communities come on line who would use the street car to get to work and around the area. There are also a lot of people moving to OKC that come from communities where this type of transit is common. I believe the street car will be successful and necessary.

Again, I think putting about 5000 people living in the HSC area would change that place dramatically. There are a ton of massive parking lots, and there's ample room to fit that many people in. Some structured parking for commuters, plus a bunch of housing, changes it so that a streetcar connection makes a lot more sense.

To be honest, I don't see that happening for a long while on the hospital/university owned land - the campus itself - but the immediate surrounding neighborhoods are beginning to show signs of rebound. The Medical Community neighborhood to the north has several homes being rehabilitated, and there are many empty lots and vacant/dilapidated homes in the neighborhoods to the south and east (ESPECIALLY between NE 1st and NE 4th). Rehabbing those houses, combined with filling those empty lots, would bump up the number of residents considerably. There will also be a bump from the old Page Woodson School, once those housing units come on-line.

OU needs to invest and have its' own Institute for Quality Communities create a redevelopment plan. OU itself has enough clout and capital on its own to redevelop the district into a denser, mixed-use environment. The city shouldn't be responsible for trying to create density solely with it's own funds.

^^^

yes plz

Interesting opinion piece by Scott Meacham detailing OUHSC's selection as one of two communities nationwide to receive The Anne T. And Robert M. Bass Initiative on Innovation and Placemaking, a collaboration between the Brookings Institute and The Project for Public Spaces.

OKC?s innovation district could demonstrate power of place | NewsOK.com (http://m.newsok.com/article/5456224?access=98c4e1ac6fa7e3f4daacd72c89447a5a)

Interesting opinion piece by Scott Meacham detailing OUHSC's selection as one of two communities nationwide to receive The Anne T. And Robert M. Bass Initiative on Innovation and Placemaking, a collaboration between the Brookings Institute and The Project for Public Spaces.

OKC?s innovation district could demonstrate power of place | NewsOK.com (http://m.newsok.com/article/5456224?access=98c4e1ac6fa7e3f4daacd72c89447a5a)Wh en I click the link, it appears to be behind a paywall. Can you give us a quick synopsis of it or is there another media source other than newsok that's reporting on this?

Aspirations vs. reality... In any 150 acre area served by the streetcar, how many stops will there be, and what will the wait time be between cars? The 150 lunch-goers spread across a 150-acre chunk of the Innovation District can likely WALK directly to their lunch destination on 9th Street in less time than it takes to wait for a car. And how many cars would it take to serve the 150 people if they did choose to walk to a stop and wait? I bet you'd spend half your lunch hour walking to the stop, and waiting for a car. Not to mention there are NO STOPS planned on the East side of I-235!

The streetcar might make sense to those who live near the line, or if have time to eat lunch in Bricktown, or Midtown. I've been talking about improving the walkability within the District... reducing the effects of the I-235 barrier is necessary. The streetcar won't address that issue.

I think you may want to read up more on the project. It's going to provide a lot of the benefits and impact I think you're looking for.

There are no stops east of 235 yet because it doesn't go there yet. I'd like to see the state pitch in with at least matching funds before that happens, otherwise I'd love to see the streetcar connect into more of OKC's neighborhoods.

The "Midtown to Bricktown" route connects almost all of the new apartment developments (in which there are 7,500 downtown residents), serves Thunder game crowds, slices straight through the office core in which 50-60,00 people work, and yes it also connects people to around 200 restaurants. It does so much more than take convention goers to lunch in Bricktown or Midtown, but if that is all downtown is to you, then yes it does that too..

I think that the biggest impact (which will pleasantly surprise us all) is that going to the Festival of the Arts, a Thunder game, a huge concert, whatever replaces H&8th, 4th of July fireworks, Opening Night, etc - will be totally transformed. The streetcar will revolutionize how people interact with the streets of OKC during those busy times. It will make the streetscape a lot more interactive, even if not every is crammed into one of the 100+ seat rolling stock.

Steve's update.

http://www.oklahoman.com/article/5480830?earlyAccess=true


The Brookings Institute's pilot project to use Oklahoma City as a new model for creating innovation districts is being tested out with planners, developers, medical researchers and civic leaders this week.

Oklahoma City was chosen along with Philadelphia for the 18-month study, which is funded by the Anne T. and Robert M. Bass Initiative for Innovation and Placemaking. For Oklahoma City, the study represents an opportunity to add life to an area east of downtown known as the Oklahoma Health Center.

Some improvements will require capital investment. Meg Walker, vice president at the Project for Public Spaces, suggested NW 10 be narrowed from four lanes to two to make the area more pedestrian friendly. Similar changes may be necessary throughout the district, and institutions that have built their buildings facing away from streets will be challenged to expand to streets or pursue improvements to make the area more pedestrian friendly.

Home | okcid (http://www.okcinnovation.com/)

http://www.okcinnovation.com/ResizeImage.aspx?img=%2FWebsites%2Fokcid%2FPhotoGa llery%2F5387319%2FNEW_Correct%20OKC_InnovationDist rict_WithStreetLabels_F.png&w=960&01897

^^^^^^^
Not sure why they feel compelled to include Automobile Alley, which is a well-established existing district already overseen by Downtown OKC, Inc and a part of the existing downtown BID.

Not sure why they feel compelled to include Automobile Alley, which is a well-established existing district already overseen by Downtown OKC, Inc and a part of the existing downtown BID.

I think it has to do with the "ideal" occupation/use mix and size of successful innovation districts. (OUHSC is also a well-established district.) And... including Automobile Alley will definitely make it easier to connect the Innovation District to the CBD.

Steve's update along with a video presentation which gives information that has, so far, only been reported on in this much detail by the Oklahoman among local media.

http://www.oklahoman.com/article/5481667?earlyAccess=true


It's that kind of thinking that has Meg Walker, an architect and planner with the Project for Public Spaces, hopeful Oklahoma City can create a new model for innovation districts across the country. Her organization, along with the Brookings Institute, is in the midst of an 18-month study of Oklahoma City and Philadelphia that is intended to change how research and medical districts are programmed, designed and built.

“Oklahoma City is our beta test,” Walker explained to Miller and dozens of others as they gathered Wednesday at the Oklahoma School of Science and Math. “You are our Guinea Pigs.”

Steve's update along with a video presentation which gives information that has, so far, only been reported on in this much detail by the Oklahoman among local media.

http://www.oklahoman.com/article/5481667?earlyAccess=true

Very nice!


"Her organization, along with the Brookings Institute, is in the midst of an 18-month study of Oklahoma City and Philadelphia that is intended to change how research and medical districts are programmed, designed and built.

“Oklahoma City is our beta test,” Walker explained to Miller and dozens of others as they gathered Wednesday at the Oklahoma School of Science and Math. “You are our Guinea Pigs.”"


Very impressive!

http://oklahoma.justgoodnews.biz/wp-content/uploads/sites/38/2016/02/health-science-campus.1.jpg
OU Children's Hospital, OU College of Medicine & Stephenson Cancer Center are among the new venues that dot the Health Sciences Center area.
http://www.rees.com/sites/default/files/project-images/st-anthony-pavilion1.jpg
St. Anthony's Hospital expansion (west of Kaisers) continues our city's growth in the Health Sciences field.

Once Oklahoma City ties its loose ends together; things will begin to connect.