Not to mention it would probably be a billion dollar project. Maybe some day when our population has tripled. MAPS VII maybe?

I doubt this would be $1 billion. Klyde Warren Park in Dallas was $100 million for 0.2 miles (cap + park). A Univ. of Texas proposal to cap a one-mile portion of I-35 through downtown Austin is estimated at $550 million. CDM's park would run 0.8 mi., and, using those comps as estimates, could be built for around $450 million.

In Downtown STL, they are capping one block of interstate highway with park space as part of a larger plan to "connect" the Arch grounds to the heart of Downtown.

St. Louis Gateway Arch Grounds Project | CityArchRiver 2015 (http://Www.cityarchriver.org)

The "cap" over the highway looks to be $26 million. The entire project is $250 million.

In Downtown STL, they are capping one block of interstate highway with park space as part of a larger plan to "connect" the Arch grounds to the heart of Downtown.

St. Louis Gateway Arch Grounds Project | CityArchRiver 2015 (http://Www.cityarchriver.org)

The "cap" over the highway looks to be $26 million. The entire project is $250 million.
WOW WOW WOW!!!

This will be amazing!

Here is direct link to the before and after. When you switch from a picture, you slide the bar above the pic to view what it will be. Very neat and this should really liven up the area!

CityArchRiver 2015 | Slider Gallery (http://www.cityarchriver.org/SliderGallery/#0)

In Downtown STL, they are capping one block of interstate highway with park space as part of a larger plan to "connect" the Arch grounds to the heart of Downtown.

St. Louis Gateway Arch Grounds Project | CityArchRiver 2015 (http://Www.cityarchriver.org)

The "cap" over the highway looks to be $26 million. The entire project is $250 million.

This looks incredible (and much-needed). Very cool.

MAPs has been a godsend for OKC. Now when I look at a city very similar to ours; Omaha comes to mind. They do not have a vehicle like MAPs at their disposal. Yet, the times I have visited Nebraska's largest city, their growth appears modest--getting better. We are growing at a much faster rate.

I've been impressed with their medical center area; especially with the recent cases in the way they have handled the Ebola outbreak.

My brother works at the OU Medical Center (Lab); he's close to his second retirement. They are well-equipped to handle most anything. Especially their trauma center. He has talked with doctors who want the areas' cosmetics advanced. There appears to be some concern with the visionary outlook for that area.

My personal (services from McGee Eye Institute, OU Physicians, OU Family Medicine, Pharmacy) experience in that area as it develops is walkability. Once I use the parking garage, it's pure shoe-leather from there on. I recall how difficult it was for me to get around in that area from Stanton L. Young, 10th & 13th streets.

Omaha seems to have a much better diagram with the way they have planned and coordinated their medical facilities. One my aunts lived there for years, I recall our visit there how similar it was to OKC. University of Oklahoma's expanded medical presence in that area will make the difference.

Just wonder if there's any areas in which MAPs could be incorporated into the OU Medical Center area where it could be a game changer or difference maker connecting downtown.

Just wonder if there's any areas in which MAPs could be incorporated into the OU Medical Center area where it could be a game changer or difference maker connecting downtown.

The only way I see that happening with a future MAPS would be with transit.

Like many of my ideas (Market Circle, etc), these drawings are created merely to spur conversations, stir the imagination, and suggest change. It's more about the IDEA of spanning the freeway than a an actual, viable, plan for doing so.

But it is an actual, viable idea that should be done. Ohio ODOT has recently gotten in the habit of building a lot of urban freeway caps in Cincinnati, Columbus, and Cleveland.

Cincy's freeway separating it from the Ohio River is getting capped:
http://www.urbancincy.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/banks1.jpg

A series of double caps over 670 in Columbus between Downtown and the Short North
http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/.a/6a00d834518cc969e20154366eba20970c-800wi
http://home.earthlink.net/~dfriedman1/DNA/cap_full_streetscape-1.jpg

Long Street Cultural Bridge in Columbus connecting downtown and a historically important African American area
http://www.mkskstudios.com/storage/LONG-STREET---NIGHT-2---AXON.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1395934443878

South High and Front Street caps connecting downtown and the Brewery District
http://www.mkskstudios.com/storage/HIGH-ST---BIRDSEYE-NORTH_ppl-and-art_UPDATE.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=13969826 73966

Innerbelt reconstruction in Cleveland which widens it but eliminated room for exits, so caps are used to create room for exits without tearing down historic buildings
http://imgick.cleveland.com/home/cleve-media/width620/img/plain_dealer_metro/photo/15987340-standard.jpg

And of course the grand daddy of them all, the Big Dig
http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2011/10/big-dig-before-after-photo.jpg

LA is getting freeway caps that hide its huge freeways and give it sorely needed greenspace
http://d2uaszwku8m8xd.cloudfront.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Hollywood-Central-Park-courtesy-of-Hollywood-Central-park-e1325019456317.jpg

Chicago is finally capping the Kennedy Expressway
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--r7evDQNO--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/18zc9706y7mqojpg.jpg

St. Louis should have capped 70 to connect the city to the Arch long ago
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--fWHNCwTO--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/18z92uvuryy8qjpg.jpg

Dallas built Klyde Warren Park connecting the Arts District across the Woodall Rogers Freeway
http://www.archpaper.com/uploads/dallas_highway_park_01.jpg

If we didn't have a DOT that was stuck in the stone ages, we would be doing these, too.

If we didn't have a DOT that was stuck in the stone ages, we would be doing these, too.

That's the thing. As we've seen from the Boulevard discussion, its very difficult to convince ODOT to think outside the box. In your opinion what should be done to change that? I am sure funding is also an issue. The extravagant highway projects being built in large cities in more affluent states likely cost more than ODOT has the ability to spend.

But it is an actual, viable idea that should be done. Ohio ODOT has recently gotten in the habit of building a lot of urban freeway caps in Cincinnati, Columbus, and Cleveland.

Cincy's freeway separating it from the Ohio River is getting capped:
http://www.urbancincy.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/banks1.jpg

A series of double caps over 670 in Columbus between Downtown and the Short North
http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/.a/6a00d834518cc969e20154366eba20970c-800wi
http://home.earthlink.net/~dfriedman1/DNA/cap_full_streetscape-1.jpg

Long Street Cultural Bridge in Columbus connecting downtown and a historically important African American area
http://www.mkskstudios.com/storage/LONG-STREET---NIGHT-2---AXON.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1395934443878

South High and Front Street caps connecting downtown and the Brewery District
http://www.mkskstudios.com/storage/HIGH-ST---BIRDSEYE-NORTH_ppl-and-art_UPDATE.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=13969826 73966

Innerbelt reconstruction in Cleveland which widens it but eliminated room for exits, so caps are used to create room for exits without tearing down historic buildings
http://imgick.cleveland.com/home/cleve-media/width620/img/plain_dealer_metro/photo/15987340-standard.jpg

And of course the grand daddy of them all, the Big Dig
http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2011/10/big-dig-before-after-photo.jpg

LA is getting freeway caps that hide its huge freeways and give it sorely needed greenspace
http://d2uaszwku8m8xd.cloudfront.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Hollywood-Central-Park-courtesy-of-Hollywood-Central-park-e1325019456317.jpg

Chicago is finally capping the Kennedy Expressway
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--r7evDQNO--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/18zc9706y7mqojpg.jpg

St. Louis should have capped 70 to connect the city to the Arch long ago
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--fWHNCwTO--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/18z92uvuryy8qjpg.jpg

Dallas built Klyde Warren Park connecting the Arts District across the Woodall Rogers Freeway
http://www.archpaper.com/uploads/dallas_highway_park_01.jpg

If we didn't have a DOT that was stuck in the stone ages, we would be doing these, too.

Don't forget, Dallas is also trying either remove or cap Central Expressway.

Only the part between I-30 and Woodall Rogers. Not the entire Central Expressway. From what I read, not much chance of it being removed

I am sure funding is also an issue. The extravagant highway projects being built in large cities in more affluent states likely cost more than ODOT has the ability to spend.

Ya think? Boitoi's estimate above represents about 80% of their annual budget. Good luck getting rural legislators, Tulsa, and everyone else to say, yeah we just want to cap 235.

If we were able to get it built, the tagline for Centennial Park should be "Sometimes you can fix stupid."

If we were able to get it built, the tagline for Centennial Park should be "Sometimes you can fix stupid."

Why not, that's exactly what it's about. Urban Renewal freeways were always a messy order of business, and OKDOT shouldn't have built them in the first place if they didn't have the resources for proper mitigation.

I believe Tulsa is generating discussion about freeway caps, so already it sounds like there should be a majority of people in the state wanting one. Klyde Warren Park in Dallas (over Woodall Rogers) was $110MM, which I don't think is too bad, but if that is bad we should look at the Ohio freeway caps which are just bridges extended and reinforced to support a building or a park.

I suspect Tulsa would support a cap if they got one first. lol.

Joke aside, I wonder if a coordinated effort could be launched so that the cap included streetcar connection into the OHC and then overall budgets were consistent. This is where I always argue that OKC needs master planning to guide development and coordinate expenditures.

As an aside: I'm actually surprised that I-40 didn't include a cap for the new Union Park. If it did, you'd truly have a continuous greenspace from the CBD down to the river. While I appreciate the 'statement' that was meant to be made by the pedestrian bridge, you really can't see it too well from the freeway due to all of the bridges blocking it on approach (IMO).

I would say a cap over I-235 should be a part of MAPS4, but I don't know if the city would have any say in it being that its ODOT property. Would any freeway cap have to be proposed and funded entirely by ODOT? It is a cool idea though and it would be great if there would be a way to make it happen without having to get Tulsa and rural Oklahoma on board.

The time has come for an autonomous Central Oklahoma Department of Transportation.

But I'll admit my bias, I think cities manage themselves much better than states do anyway.

I would say a cap over I-235 should be a part of MAPS4, but I don't know if the city would have any say in it being that its ODOT property. Would any freeway cap have to be proposed and funded entirely by ODOT? It is a cool idea though and it would be great if there would be a way to make it happen without having to get Tulsa and rural Oklahoma on board.

Why should OKC pay for something that ODOT should pay for?

Why should OKC pay for something that ODOT should pay for?

Why would ODOT pay for it? A cap over I-235 would do nothing for transportation. It would strictly be a beautification/quality of life project.

His name is CuatroDeMayo. He is the resident badass of OKCTalk.
And a really nice guy with a cute kid.

Why would ODOT pay for it? A cap over I-235 would do nothing for transportation. It would strictly be a beautification/quality of life project.

Yes, of their piece of infrastructure that screwed up the city.

DOTs in most states actually do this thing called "mitigation" for freeway projects. ODOT will never do it if we don't ask to be treated like citizens in a regular city/state that wouldn't tolerate that kind of DOT.

Planners in most other states would be astonished at what ODOT routinely gets away with here.

Freeway caps are literally just covering up the problem. The freeway is the problem whether you can see it or not. Be wary of anything that attempts to recreate the dreams of Le Corbusier.

http://www.parkcanyon.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/tribune-cover.jpg

Yes, of their piece of infrastructure that screwed up the city.

DOTs in most states actually do this thing called "mitigation" for freeway projects. ODOT will never do it if we don't ask to be treated like citizens in a regular city/state that wouldn't tolerate that kind of DOT.

Planners in most other states would be astonished at what ODOT routinely gets away with here.
Screwed up the city. That's a good one.

Screwed up the city. That's a good one.
I can't help but notice that the exits and on ramps are so screwed up. Did these
planners ever drive on the Crosstown? A ramp for Shields? Really?

If you miss the Shields on ramp you can't access I-40 until Meridian. That's stupid.
Of course if there's an on ramp between Shields and Meridian I'd like to know about
it.

I can't help but notice that the exits and on ramps are so screwed up. Did these
planners ever drive on the Crosstown? A ramp for Shields? Really?

If you miss the Shields on ramp you can't access I-40 until Meridian. That's stupid.
Of course if there's an on ramp between Shields and Meridian I'd like to know about
it.

Have you heard about a street called Western or maybe the Crosstown Blvd.? The last time I checked they are between Shield and Meridian. And don't forget the Agnew/Villa ramps.

Have you heard about a street called Western or maybe the Crosstown Blvd.? The last time I checked they are between Shield and Meridian. And don't forget the Agnew/Villa ramps.

There's also a westbound on ramp at Portland.

Freeway caps are literally just covering up the problem. The freeway is the problem whether you can see it or not. Be wary of anything that attempts to recreate the dreams of Le Corbusier.

No, freeway caps are not covering up the problem. You gotta have freeways, and while OKC shouldn't have built 235, it did and now it relies on it. A freeway cap is an easy win-win for the city and the greater region.

This is what was torn down to build 235:
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/maps/vintage/deepdeuce_aerial_c1930_1.jpg

Here is a link to a massive aerial pano of the otherwise strong urban fabric that 235 is slicing up. It's a visible scar through downtown from above.
http://www.aerialok.com/wp-content/uploads/IMG_9665-OUHSC.jpg

Well you can't build that on top of a cap and all the problems associated with freeways - from encouraging sprawl to the cost of maintenance are still there - and in fact - the maintenance cost we already can't afford would be even higher.

No, freeway caps are not covering up the problem. You gotta have freeways, and while OKC shouldn't have built 235, it did and now it relies on it. A freeway cap is an easy win-win for the city and the greater region.

This is what was torn down to build 235:
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/maps/vintage/deepdeuce_aerial_c1930_1.jpg

Here is a link to a massive aerial pano of the otherwise strong urban fabric that 235 is slicing up. It's a visible scar through downtown from above.
http://www.aerialok.com/wp-content/uploads/IMG_9665-OUHSC.jpg

Beautiful cityscape. I still support them being torn down and the highway being built in their place.

Well you can't build that on top of a cap and all the problems associated with freeways - from encouraging sprawl to the cost of maintenance are still there - and in fact - the maintenance cost we already can't afford would be even higher.

yes you can

Beautiful cityscape. I still support them being torn down and the highway being built in their place.

Plu, the destruction of Deep Deuce was much more than tearing down some cityscape to build a highway.

Plu, the destruction of Deep Deuce was much more than tearing down some cityscape to build a highway.

Amen, so true my bro...

It was the heart, mind & soul of those who grew up in the Deep Deuce-Oak Park additions (Page-Woodson). It represented the epitome of the OKC black renaissance where Charlie Christian, Jimmy Rushing, "Count" Basie, Blue Devils Band, Langston Hughes, Ralph Ellison (Invisible Man), Judge Vicki Miles-LaGrange, Dr. G.E. Finley, Dr. E. C. Moon, Dr. Frank Cox, Dr. W. K. Jackson, Dr. E. Jennings Perry, Abram Ross, Russell M. Perry, Roscoe Dunjee, Ada Lois Sipuel Fisher, Earl Temple, Prentice Gautt and Dr. Ben Hart left their imprint.

A big chapter of Oklahoma City's black history lives in the memory of Deep Deuce (once known as Oklahoma City's Black Business District).

Rich history of Deep Deuce deserves to be told | News OK (http://newsok.com/rich-history-of-deep-deuce-deserves-to-be-told/article/3932434)

I played a Lecture/Concert series called Charlie Christian through the Eyes of Ralph Ellison.
The program was performed at Douglas HS, Boley, Clearview, Lawton and the
Historical Society and Langston University.

BLAC funded the project and it was very informative and entertaining.

There's talk of it continuing next year.

Plu, the destruction of Deep Deuce was much more than tearing down some cityscape to build a highway.I didn't even know that was considered Deep Deuce.

I didn't even know that was considered Deep Deuce.
I'm pretty sure that Deep Deuce waned away on it's own. I have
a black friend who lived during DD. He didn't think much of it. There
are a lot of rumors and urban legends involved with DD.

I wasn't there. My friend was and he IS black.

I'm pretty sure that Deep Deuce waned away on it's own. I have
a black friend who lived during DD. He didn't think much of it. There
are a lot of rumors and urban legends involved with DD.

I wasn't there. My friend was and he IS black.

Wow! I don't know what to say: Your friend sounds like a white handkerchief head (Doesn't identify with blacks).

I'm pretty sure that Deep Deuce waned away on it's own. I have
a black friend who lived during DD. He didn't think much of it. There
are a lot of rumors and urban legends involved with DD.

I wasn't there. My friend was and he IS black.
I am not proud to say this buy I don't know that much about Deep Deuce other than it was a significant historic community for African Americans. I need to learn more about it.

Well you can't build that on top of a cap and all the problems associated with freeways - from encouraging sprawl to the cost of maintenance are still there - and in fact - the maintenance cost we already can't afford would be even higher.

OKC relies on I-235 today and removing it entirely would cause so many traffic problems. It isn't a realistic possibility. Capping it is the middle ground solution that allows the highway to remain but also allows an opportunity for urban fabric or at least a park to bridge the gap between the two sides.

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608019614023026903&pid=15.1&P=0

Different versions sung by Barbara Streisand, Gladys Knight & Diana Ross, it's all the same.

Deep Deuce is history like many other neighborhoods; Walnut Grove, Sandtown and there was one IIRC called the Civics' Republic. These places had memories for a lot of people. What occurred with these neighborhoods has passed.

It's not for me or anyone to attempt to justify the destruction of those neighborhoods; they were important to a lot of people in their day.

It's time to move on with progress...

Wow! I don't know what to say: Your friend sounds like a white handkerchief
head (Doesn't identify with blacks).
I'm not how you came up with that. Maybe DD really wasn't as big of a deal
as it is today.

How important Deep Deuce was to someone probably depends on exactly when they lived there, and what they were into. You could live in Norman during the height of the Bud Wilkinson era, and if you didn't like football, you'd think there was nothing to do. If PP's friend lived in Deep Deuce after it's glory days, well, it wasn't the construction of I-235 that led to its decline. 235 just finished it off.

There are a lot of rumors and urban legends involved with DD.

Such as.

How important Deep Deuce was to someone probably depends on exactly when they lived there, and what they were into. You could live in Norman during the height of the Bud Wilkinson era, and if you didn't like football, you'd think there was nothing to do. If PP's friend lived in Deep Deuce after it's glory days, well, it wasn't the construction of I-235 that led to its decline. 235 just finished it off.

Do you know what ended Deep Deuce's glory days?

I am curious if it just waxed and waned with the ebb and flow of the Black Renaissance.. in which case, modern-day gentrification isn't an unfitting legacy.

Such as.
Charlie Christian playing with the Blue Devils. It didn't happen.

You know, I was driving around our expansive campus today between meetings and realized that we have a small freeway cap over WA-520 that connects both sides of Microsoft (http://seattletimes.com/ABPub/zoom/html/2008857920.html). I never even thought about it but today I did remember the cap not being there and there being a significant hindrance to getting around. It's just so commonplace today that one doesn't even think that it is indeed a 2009 or so construction because the expansive campus feels connected with it.

I think something even as simple as our little Freeway cap could work in OKC at Harrison Avenue probably (similar diagonal bridge, similar freeway and somewhat similar development (now) on both sides). Looks like Microsoft paid for most of it ($17M) but we did use some federal stimulus money to help build it. I'd imagine it shouldn't be too expensive to build something similar in OKC. ...

What's funny is even back then 'freeway cap' verbiage was not commonplace (or at least wasn't up here, since the Seattle Times calls it a bridge but it really is a landscaped, pedestrianized cap with bike trails running diagonally over 520).

Urbanized,
Thanks for your like. This can become a hotly contested topic.

Such as.
MLK leading a march over the Walnut street bridge into OKC in 1960.
Yes, he spoke at the famous Calvary Baptist Church. That's a fact.

At any rate, I can't find any information that MLK, whom I admire very much,
ever led a march in OKC.

I know it won't be popular with some of you on this page, but I disagree with the notion of a highway splitting neighborhoods. I grew up with I-44 next to my house north of the fairgrounds and in no way have I ever felt the highway split those on the west side with those on the east side. I will agree that having no busy parallel roadways and frequent crossings of the highway helps so perhaps those crossings (that occur every 3-4 blocks near the CBD) could be redesigned and/or widened with ample pedestrian and bicycle lanes. The huge amounts of money needed to "cap" I-235 the way it was designed, would be far better spent speeding up reconstruction of other highway interchanges around town or replacing other areas of our city infrastructure. If money is to be spent on aesthetics, I'd rather see it go to burying power lines.

I know it won't be popular with some of you on this page, but I disagree with the notion of a highway splitting neighborhoods. I grew up with I-44 next to my house north of the fairgrounds and in no way have I ever felt the highway split those on the west side with those on the east side.

With all due respect, your experience as a child is completely different than most because I 44 was largely built within the Grand Blvd ROW. Little if any homes were taken for this. Whereas 235 literally blasted through the middle of a neighborhood along no existing "grain" of development.

With all due respect, your experience as a child is completely different than most because I 44 was largely built within the Grand Blvd ROW. Little if any homes were taken for this. Whereas 235 literally blasted through the middle of a neighborhood along no existing "grain" of development.

I think one can probably make that same argument for I-35 in the Eastside of NE OKC and also I-44 in the Eastside section though it was less developed here. Perhaps I-35 in the Southside too?

I think one can probably make that same argument for I-35 in the Eastside of NE
OKC and also I-44 in the Eastside section though it was less developed here.
Perhaps I-35 in the Southside too?
When I-35 was built I don't remember it taking out very many houses. The
Moore area wasn't built up that much. I-40 was different.

I-35 wiped out a lot of housing on the east side along with Black Hawk Amusement Park.

I 44 was largely built within the Grand Blvd ROW. Little if any homes were taken for this.

Simply not true. Grand was a 2 lane path. The construction of 44 took maybe 16 houses per block.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/1969/196923portland.jpg

In the section from 10th to 23rd, 44 took one house per block per side in most places. Its interesting to see my old house when I was a kid in that photo

In the section from 10th to 23rd, 44 took one house per block per side in most places. Its interesting to see my old house when I was a kid in that photo

I know the same thing happened just north of SW 29th Street. My aunt and uncle owned a house on the East side of Grand which was taken.

Can we get back to connecting downtown to the Health Sciences Center?

What's the most important factor in connecting the two?

urban fabric.

urban fabric.
Unless you mean the fabric of the urban area what do you mean?

I've always thought that NW 13 WAS the connection to the Health Sciences Center.

Is there a part of the city that doesn't have a direct line to the HSC? Seriously.

I honestly don't see any problem with getting to the Health Sciences Center from
any part of OKC. That includes SE, SW, NE and NW OKC.

Just what is the problem?

Urban fabric relates to the built environment, which in this case is broken up by 235. While other states have found innovative ways to mitigate and bridge these urban expressways, Oklahoma has not, which could be an impactful thing to improve. Downtown is expanding, and the Health Sciences area would be a valuable connection, which means more than just an auto bridge, it needs to have buildings, sidewalks, and activity all the way across. This is the idea that healthy neighborhoods should be connected to other healthy neighborhoods, which the Health Sciences area is not.

Urban fabric relates to the built environment, which in this case is broken up by
235. While other states have found innovative ways to mitigate and bridge these
urban expressways, Oklahoma has not, which could be an impactful thing to
improve.
Are you saying that it's hard to connect to the Health Sciences Center? I
believe it's the easiest place in OKC to get to.


Downtown is expanding, and the Health Sciences area would be a valuable
connection, which means more than just an auto bridge, it needs to have buildings,
sidewalks, and activity all the way across. This is the idea that healthy neighborhoods
should be connected to other healthy neighborhoods, which the Health Sciences
area is not.
Except for it being the most easily accesible place in OKC what do you believe
makes it not so easy?

Seriously.

Day or night, the HSC is the easiest place in OKC to get to.