Looks like they've got some extra work to do now:

Two people died in a crash and two others were hospitalized in Oklahoma City Thursday | NewsOK.com (http://m.newsok.com/two-people-died-in-a-crash-and-two-others-were-hospitalized-in-oklahoma-city-thursday/article/3947490)

Seems a car crashed into the building earlyl this morning... wonder if they'll be able to continue now.

Two Killed; Two Hurt After Car Slams Into NW OKC Building - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/25086881/two-killed-two-hurt-after-car-slams-into-nw-okc-building)

Looks like they were replacing front glass anyway, and the smashed brick veneer can be repaired/replaced easily and inexpensively. Should not be a problem. Shame about the fatalities though.

Shame about the fatalities though.

Yeah. I'm curious how it happened. They had to have been doing a very high speed down Shartel or 23rd... One of the News 9 photos showed that it was the back half of the car that was most destroyed.

Sad.

2 am, I bet alcohol was involved.

Guyutes goes before the planning commission tomorrow at 1:30. If there are any supporters out there, Guyutes would love for you to come!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good luck! Looks like a great project and we're all pulling for you.

Good luck! Looks like a great project and we're all pulling for you.

I know form social media that there will be a large number of opponents at this meeting.

I know form social media that there will be a large number of opponents at this meeting.

Protesting the rooftop patio or the whole project?

I know form social media that there will be a large number of opponents at this meeting.

Yeah, I'm curious.

Oy, vey.

Oy, vey.

I completely agree with your sentiment.

7184

I disagree with my former Neighborhood Association. Quite sad that their board voted in approval to send this letter.

Just received a DM from someone watching/attending. The Planning Commission just deferred the item 4 weeks so that Mesta Park can work with the owners to determine suitable closing times. B/c "2 am is too late".

I completely agree with your sentiment.

7184

I disagree with my former Neighborhood Association. Quite sad that their board voted in approval to send this letter.

I'd hate to live in the house immediately behind Guyutes. Can't say that I blame MPNA for sticking up for one of their residents.

I'd hate to live in the house immediately behind Guyutes. Can't say that I blame MPNA for sticking up for one of their residents.

It's a street backing a commercial corridor. Not quite sure what you'd want that to entail... Like it or not, Mesta Park is urban and we should expect, and encourage, urban amenities.

It's a street backing a commercial corridor. Not quite sure what you'd want that to entail... Like it or not, Mesta Park is urban and we should expect, and encourage, urban amenities.

+1

It's a street backing a commercial corridor. Not quite sure what you'd want that to entail... Like it or not, Mesta Park is urban and we should expect, and encourage, urban amenities.

Exactly.

1. Noise from the patio speakers carrying into the neighborhood.
a. 55 decibels (until 10 pm) and 50 decibels (after 10 pm) are rather loud
when you consider that normal indoor conversation is ~50-55 decibels.
Yes, “normal conversation” is not loud by itself, but it is relatively loud
when one imagines trying to sleep yet noise as loud as a normal
conversation could be occurring outside their bedroom window. We
understand that the upstairs patio will mostly be covered other than to
the north, but we imagine the sound can carry backward. We have
experience with sound travelling far and disrupting people trying to
sleep: the mill between 2nd and 4th on Western often wakes up
residents in the south half of Mesta Park (1.5 miles away) and the
decibel level at their homes is 40-50. One of those residents
measured a gas powered leaf blower’s decibel level from inside their
home at 50 decibels.


This is can kind of understand, but a fence and the right plants will do wonders to solve this. You are living in a big city, there will be noise.


2. Noise from people walking to their cars parked in the neighborhood.
a. This concern is not for customers departing from dinner. Rather, it is
for the late night crowd that might have a more vocal jaunt to their
vehicle and perhaps spend some time chatting, talking on the phone,
arguing with a significant other, etc in a front yard before departing with
the radio turned up and windows down. We are concerned that this
would be a common chorus during the late night exoduses.


Seriously!? People talking????? Arguments can happen anywhere, what a dumb point. Yes, there might be kids walking around talking loud, but come on.... that is part of life. If they are screaming and or causing any major disturbance, call the cops.


3. Patrons cars blocking full access to driveways
a. Achieved by cars being parked across the street and also on each side
of the driveway. Or also achieved by cars parking across the
driveway—this actually happens often on Shartel near the Heritage
Museum.

Yes, that might happen, but again, call the police. If they are blocking your easement, help the city out with their revenue stream.


4. Street parking residents being displaced by 23rd Street patrons
a. Street parking by residents is not abundant on the 22nd Street blocks
around Shartel. This concern is for for full 23rd Street development.
We don’t anticipate this being an issue with your development alone,
but it will be a problem when 23rd Street is fully developed

So what you're getting at is you guys don't want the place to be developed? You want a deserted corridor so your residents can park on public street parking. Parking that is and should be available to anyone... gotcha.

Why is it an issue here when all is well around Western Avenue, Paseo, Midtown, Deep Deuce?

It's a street backing a commercial corridor. Not quite sure what you'd want that to entail... Like it or not, Mesta Park is urban and we should expect, and encourage, urban amenities.

Like rooftop bars 60' away from a bedroom window? Until 2 AM? I'm not saying that there should be an expectation of some sort of suburban nirvana, but to me the rooftop issue is a non-negotiable item. It will be what kills this proposal.

Why is it an issue here when all is well around Western Avenue, Paseo, Midtown, Deep Deuce?Because man, no new development! No new people! No new noise! No new traffic! NO NEW ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Like rooftop bars 60' away from a bedroom window? Until 2 AM? I'm not saying that there should be an expectation of some sort of suburban nirvana, but to me the rooftop issue is a non-negotiable item. It will be what kills this proposal.

You realize people all over the country and world live in mixed use developments with open bar/patio areas that stay open until 2am or later, right? This isn't something new and should be expected in the urban core, particularly near major corridors like 23rd street.

You realize people all over the country and world live in mixed use developments with open bar/patio areas that stay open until 2am or later, right? This isn't something new and should be expected in the urban core, particularly near major corridors like 23rd street.

I just don't understand why anyone would even live in the center of the city and expect anything other than this.

The big problem in this area is that for decades most the commercial buildings have been vacant or extremely under utilized.

Most the people that moved into those neighborhoods are accustomed to and expect dead quiet, even on the commercial corridors like 23rd.

So, anything going in other than luxury homes or high-end retail is going to be considered a detraction.


I've made this point before but homeowners in HH/MP don't want to deal with increased activity, put your home up for sale. Prices have appreciated rapidly due to all the new development and there is a long list of people who would be happy to buy, even with a bar right across the alley.

While I don't live in MP or HH, a quickly recovering 23rd street was a factor when I purchased a home in the core last year.

You realize people all over the country and world live in mixed use developments with open bar/patio areas that stay open until 2am or later, right? This isn't something new and should be expected in the urban core, particularly near major corridors like 23rd street.+1

I just don't understand why anyone would even live in the center of the city and expect anything other than this.Because these people have rights to property they don't own!!!! Where have you been man! /sarc

The big problem in this area is that for decades most the commercial buildings have been vacant or extremely under utilized.

Most the people that moved into those neighborhoods are accustomed to and expect dead quiet, even on the commercial corridors like 23rd.

So, anything going in other than luxury homes or high-end retail is going to be considered a detraction.


I've made this point before but homeowners in HH/MP don't want to deal with increased activity, put your home up for sale. Prices have appreciated rapidly due to all the new development and there is a long list of people who would be happy to buy, even with a bar right across the alley.That's what I was thinking, wouldn't home values increase? I heard about a lady that was protesting the Rise and she was worried her home values would drop because of the development and someone asked her what her home value was and she discovered it increased as a direct result of all the new development.

NIMBYs!

Don't live in the absolute center (2 miles away from the epicenter of a 700 sq mile city) of a city if you don't want noise.

Simple as that. Go live on SW 164th and Western. Lots of big homes, and no one on the street beyond 9pm or prior to 7am.

Shame about the fatalities though.

Yes. I just realized one of the fatalities was my former student at Westmoore High School. From everything I remember from him and sponsoring Asian-American Society, he was a good kid. The three identified people were all Westmoore graduates. Very sad.

Guyutes goes before the planning commission tomorrow at 1:30. If there are any supporters out there, Guyutes would love for you to come!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Id be up for that. Where people have to go?


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Id be up for that. Where people have to go?

You missed it. It was at 1:30pm today and it doesn't sound like they received support, just resistance, right?

You missed it. It was at 1:30pm today and it doesn't sound like they received support, just resistance, right?Damn!!!!! I would've have so been there as I was downtown then. Crap.... makes me so mad. I need to find about these things ahead of time.

This is can kind of understand, but a fence and the right plants will do wonders to solve this. You are living in a big city, there will be noise.



Seriously!? People talking????? Arguments can happen anywhere, what a dumb point. Yes, there might be kids walking around talking loud, but come on.... that is part of life. If they are screaming and or causing any major disturbance, call the cops.



Yes, that might happen, but again, call the police. If they are blocking your easement, help the city out with their revenue stream.



So what you're getting at is you guys don't want the place to be developed? You want a deserted corridor so your residents can park on public street parking. Parking that is and should be available to anyone... gotcha.

To be certain, not all of us are with these idiots protesting this. I've spared with several of them on the mesta park neighborhood web group. Lots of really dumb people in this neighborhood.


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You missed it. It was at 1:30pm today and it doesn't sound like they received support, just resistance, right?

In Houston so I couldn't have gone anyway.


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To be certain, not all of us are with these idiots protesting this. I've spared with several of them on the mesta park neighborhood web group. Lots of really dumb people in this neighborhood.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI know.... I am just referring to the people that spout that crap. I know not everyone living there is like that. You'd be in my neighborhood if that were the case. lol

An email to the planning commission in support of this project would go a long way. Or to meg salyer about this project

^ That's a great idea.

A lot of people are unable to attend city business because it is weekday in the middle of the day. Not that it is a bad thing, but it is a conflict, and only the extremely dedicated will take off work to attend city business.

Yes. I just realized one of the fatalities was my former student at Westmoore High School. From everything I remember from him and sponsoring Asian-American Society, he was a good kid. The three identified people were all Westmoore graduates. Very sad.

Oh man, really sorry to hear that.

Infuriating. I would kill to live near an establishment like this.

On edit: has it ever occurred to these NIMBYs that the value of their property is enhanced by walkable access to quality dining / entertainment destinations, or do they prefer the ambience of boarded-up buildings, empty lots, and plasma donation centers?

Words don't do justice to describe the level of anger I feel toward these people right now.

OKC is on the cusp of greatness, but everything is going to be a fight to drag this city kicking and screaming into the 21st Century.

By far the most troubling thing is that the Planning Commission is setting a precedent and empowering homeowners to block development on commercial 4-lane roads.

Developers and investors are wanting to put hundreds of thousands of their own money into something cool for the community and it all gets negated because of a couple of people bought homes that back up to commercial lots then get bent out of shape when someone actually wants to operate a business there?

I understand the commission wanting everyone to get along but why put the power in the hands of the homeowners? Why not say, "The business is willing to abide by all existing laws and regulations, but perhaps they would be willing to do some things in the spirit of being a good neighbor." Rather than, "2AM is too late so you -- the business owner -- need to appease everyone who has a concern, legitimate or not."

^ it seems to me bar has a different meaning here in OKC.

It's an evil place to most. Where prostitutes and drunks spend their time. Drinking in spite of The Lord, and anointing themselves in the sins of the world. And parking their cars on a city street.

And that's the perception. Some dive bars are like that,but all of the new trendy bars in OKC have been tremendously successful, and have not led to any noticeable increase in neighborhood deterioration; in fact it's been the opposite. The neighborhoods embracing trendy restaurants and bars have absolutely flourished. In the 21st century, bars are a social scene. A place to meet and greet as much as meet and drink. In most cities they are assets to a neighborhood. Here they are a deterrent, at least in the minds of some.

I'm glad to see that most of you are smarter than the average bear. I love hearing the comments and support. Please come to the next planning hearing fo Guyutes and VOICE your support. One person spoke in support of Guyutes with the pull of Uptown 23rd behind him and it did nothing. Two people from Mesta were able to block this, if more supporters came out(especially if they live in Mesta) the result could have been different. Or Mesta might have such a stronghold on city politics that it wouldn't matter. Anyways PLEASE COME SUPPORT THIS PROJECT SO THIS DOESN'T BECOME A PRECEDENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

C.A.V.E people! Citizens Against Virtually Everything. They exist everywhere. If the Commission gives this credence, they risk wading into arbitrary and capricious territory. At least that's my opinion.

You know, it's crap like this that makes the "why are they only improving downtown" argument so ridiculous. Here you have public and private money going into improving infrastructure and quality of life, and it's blocked by NIMBYs. Maybe we should focus on Downtown, Midtown, Bricktown and other areas that don't deal with stuff like this first. Mesta Park can keep its fast food drive-thrus and plasma donation centers.

I'm glad to see that most of you are smarter than the average bear. I love hearing the comments and support. Please come to the next planning hearing fo Guyutes and VOICE your support. One person spoke in support of Guyutes with the pull of Uptown 23rd behind him and it did nothing. Two people from Mesta were able to block this, if more supporters came out(especially if they live in Mesta) the result could have been different. Or Mesta might have such a stronghold on city politics that it wouldn't matter. Anyways PLEASE COME SUPPORT THIS PROJECT SO THIS DOESN'T BECOME A PRECEDENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Provide a reminder again and an e-mail and hopefully this site will be more than talk.

Brilliant! Create a site called "okcaction.com" posting the places and dates we need to show up for support, complete with reminder SMS functions and iCal buttons for additions to calendars....

I'm glad to see that most of you are smarter than the average bear. I love hearing the comments and support. Please come to the next planning hearing fo Guyutes and VOICE your support. One person spoke in support of Guyutes with the pull of Uptown 23rd behind him and it did nothing. Two people from Mesta were able to block this, if more supporters came out(especially if they live in Mesta) the result could have been different. Or Mesta might have such a stronghold on city politics that it wouldn't matter. Anyways PLEASE COME SUPPORT THIS PROJECT SO THIS DOESN'T BECOME A PRECEDENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I live in mesta park. I'll do what I can to gather support for it. There are a bunch of us here that are behind you despite the handful of nimby's that are messing this up. My only concerns on this were parking and late night noise but you've done more than enough to handle those issues.

It's a bar/restaurant on a major commercial street...trying to dictate your hours is freaking ridiculous.


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I also live in Mesta Park and support development along 23rd. I found out about the last meeting the night before, by asking on OKCTALK. No notice was given to me by the neighborhood association, other than the newsletter informing us of all the wrong types of developments (i.e. the proposed music venue). So maybe we can quit the mob mentality against the residents of Mesta Park.

When is the next planning meeting that is discussing this venue so I can come out and show support?

I also live in Mesta Park and support development along 23rd. I found out about the last meeting the night before, by asking on OKCTALK. No notice was given to me by the neighborhood association, other than the newsletter informing us of all the wrong types of developments (i.e. the proposed music venue). So maybe we can quit the mob mentality against the residents of Mesta Park.

When is the next planning meeting that is discussing this venue so I can come out and show support?

If you sign up for the Mesta Park "Next Door" thingy you would have gotten notice on this as well.

If you sign up for the Mesta Park "Next Door" thingy you would have gotten notice on this as well.

Thanks and now a member.

Thanks and now a member.

You'll find, unfortunately, that it is mostly about missing dogs. But there is other stuff too.

You'll find, unfortunately, that it is mostly about missing dogs. But there is other stuff too.

I'll start a thread supporting the development on Next Door if you all think it would be a good idea. Just back me up on it! haha

This is absolutely ridiculous. I have two residences, one being on 23rd and the other being in Deep Deuce. I hear noise quite often late as the one on 23rd is near Cheever's and Grandad's and the one in deep deuce is above WSKY. With that being said, what else can they expect in urban areas in a metropolitan area that is growing?

The thing that baffles me is that the sirens from the 5 ambulances and cop cars a night HAVE to be louder than a few patrons leaving a bar at 2 am. I hear atleast 4-5 sirens a night plus atleast 1 train when I'm staying on 23rd. I understand they live in an "affluent" neighborhood where prices are high but this isn't Oak Tree or Nichols Hills, this is downtown OKC. If having peace and quiet at your $400,000 home is important, don't buy one that is within 100 yards of a 4 lane main road in the heart of the city.

In other news, Mesta Park residents oppose new convention center due to the chance that the increase in convention goers will cause an average of three more cars to pass through the neighborhood every month.

In other news, Mesta Park residents oppose new convention center due to the chance that the increase in convention goers will cause an average of three more cars to pass through the neighborhood every month.

Actually, remember that when the Edge was first proposed some complained about the possibility of the new residents using "their" park.

And of course, famously, expressed open concern about the possibility of sex shops in that same complex.

Actually, remember that when the Edge was first proposed some complained about the possibility of the new residents using "their" park.

And of course, famously, expressed open concern about the possibility of sex shops in that same complex.

Simply stunning, most of our residents don't even use "our" park.


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Have they said anything more about when the sex shop will be opening?

:rolleyes:

Have they said anything more about when the sex shop will be opening?

:rolleyes:

That would truly make OKC big league! I bet OKVision4U can make everyone in Mesta Park happy by building a 75 store, spinning, sex-shop tower.

I don't know about you all, but I'm starting to become concerned that the sex shop is not happening. There's been no discussion about it recently. Nothing. And what about the planned pawn shop and body piercing gallery? Again, nothing. Has Steve mentioned these on his chat? This is yet another example of a developer overpromising and underdelivering in OKC!

:Smiley122

While NIMBY's can be a bit over dramatic at times, I will give them one thing ... there is something just a tad unsettling about the notion of having a pawn shop conveniently located next to a sex toy store and piercing shoppe. Jus' sayin'.