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andrew3077 10-24-2013, 10:50 PM NW Corner 10th & Shartel (http://goo.gl/maps/Ngy9i)
owner= Milhaus Development
cost=$42.5 million
architect= ADG OKC
|start= June 17, 2014
finish=2017
height=5 floors
329 apartments, 4,500 sq. ft. of retail, parking structure with 455 spaces, angled parking on 10th
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/10thshartelwiki1.jpg
Information & Latest News
Officially titled "LIFT" on construction drawings.
4/30/14: $30 million building permit
12/18/13: City Council approves $3 million in TIF funding (http://newsok.com/tif-money-approved-for-three-downtown-oklahoma-city-construction-projects/article/3915574)
10/24/13: $42.5 million apartment complex announced for Midtown (http://m.newsok.com/42.5-million-apartment-complex-announced-for-midtown/article/3897276)
Former site of Plaza Tower Hotel built in 1960, closed in 1966 and demolished in the early 90's.
Links
Downtown Housing Summary
Urban Project Summary
County Assessor Record (http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/Searches/AN-R.asp?ACCOUNTNO=R045808450)
OKC Mod Article on old Plaza Tower Hotel (http://okcmod.com/?page_id=102)
Gallery
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/lift.jpg
307 NW 13th (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=307%20NW%2013th&redirect=no) * 816 N. Walker (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=816+N+Walker) * 1201 N. Francis (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=1201+N+Francis+Apartments) * 123 Garage (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=123+Garage) * Ambassador Hotel * Bleu Garten * Broadway 10 * Buick Building * Catholic Charities * Edge @ Midtown (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=Edge+Midtown) * Fassler Hall / Dust Bowl * Garage Burgers * GE Global Research * Guardian * Jerky.com * LIFT * Lisbon Lofts * Marion * Mayfair Apartments * Metropolitan * OCU Law School * Oklahoma Contemporary * Packard Building * Packard's * Pontiac Building * Pop-up Shops * R&J Lounge and Supper Club * Saint Anthony Expansion * Sidecar * Sunbeam * Viceroy Grille * Walker Building
Dustin 10-24-2013, 11:29 PM Holy crap this is awesome!!! Midtown is exploding right now!
Architect2010 10-24-2013, 11:31 PM http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7459/10469510234_febc9894bd_o.png
Plutonic Panda 10-24-2013, 11:35 PM WOW! Freakin awesome!!!!!
Awesome! I didn't realize this was so close to breaking.
This would be the NW corner of 10th & Shartel and is owned by St. Anthony Hospital. All the properties owned by Saints are show in purple below.
Remember that Lisbon Lofts will go on the NW corner of 9th & Shartel.
http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/urban-development-buildings/4847d1382715564-10th-shartel-midtown-apartments-stanthony102413.jpg
ljbab728 10-24-2013, 11:40 PM From Steve's article.
The influx of housing in Midtown is set to gain another 327 apartments with a partnership between local developer Gary Brooks and Indianapolis-based Milhaus Development.
Brooks, whose Cornerstone Development is building the $36 million, 250-unit Edge apartments at NW 13 and Walker Avenue, will be partnering with Milhaus in building a $42.5 million, five-story complex at NW 10 and Shartel Avenue.
The project marks significant milestones for both companies. Brooks also is developing The Steel Yard apartments and retail in Bricktown, which, when both phases are built, will total 376 units. All together, his downtown area residential development totals just under 1,000 apartment units.
The design is unlike any residential development underway, completed or contemplated downtown or elsewhere in Oklahoma City.
The building will be five stories high and face the northwest corner of NW 10 and Shartel Avenue roundabout, with an all-glass facade on the ground level of the corner where 4,500 square feet will be available for retail space.
Three very different balcony styles and sizes face the two main streets. The facade, meanwhile, will consist of cement boards, metal, glass and masonry.
Unlike other large complexes being built downtown, the 455-space garage will be built on the outer northwest corner of the property. That corner faces surface parking on both sides, including a planned new headquarters for Catholic Charities of Oklahoma.
soonerguru 10-24-2013, 11:43 PM Incredible! And great design concept by ADG.
Gary Brooks is a rock star for OKC and Midtown.
Will bchris think this sucks? Is Tulsa better?
Just kidding, bro.
This is significant for another reason...
It represents another example of outside investors/developers jumping into our central core market.
The first was Metropolitan and at that time I predicted it was likely the beginning of a big change and possibly a tremendous accelerant.
Remember, virtually all the dozens and dozens of projects we've seen in the last decade were done with local developers and their financial resources.
Imagine how fast things could go if we started to get lots of outside capital and expertise.
Here are some of the other projects done by Brooks' partner, Indianapolis based Milhaus Development (http://www.milhausventures.com/portfolio/all-projects):
http://www.milhausventures.com/media/BAhbB1sHOgZmSSIxMjAxMy8wOC8wMi8xOC8zMi81Mi8zNDUvQ0 lSQ0FfY3NvdXRoU0lHTi5qcGcGOgZFVFsIOgZwOgp0aHVtYkki DTYwMHg2MDA+BjsGRg/circa-csouthsign.jpg
http://www.milhausventures.com/media/BAhbB1sHOgZmSSJDMjAxMy8wMi8xMy8wMy8zMS8yOS81OTMvQX J0aXN0cnlfTmlnaHRWaWV3UmVuZGVyaW5nX0xvd1Jlcy5qcGcG OgZFVFsIOgZwOgp0aHVtYkkiDTYwMHg2MDA+BjsGRg/artistry-nightviewrendering-lowres.jpg
http://www.milhausventures.com/media/BAhbB1sHOgZmSSIyMjAxMy8wNS8xNy8xNS8wMi81Mi83NzQvTW 96em9fb25fVmlyZ2luaWEuanBnBjoGRVRbCDoGcDoKdGh1bWJJ Ig02MDB4NjAwPgY7BkY/mozzo-on-virginia.jpg
soonerguru 10-25-2013, 12:01 AM This is significant for another reason...
It represents another example of outside investors/developers jumping into our central core market.
The first was Metropolitan and at that time I predicted it was likely the beginning of a big change and possibly a tremendous accelerant.
Remember, virtually all the dozens and dozens of projects we've seen in the last decade were done with local developers and their financial resources.
Imagine how fast things could go if we started to get lots of outside capital and expertise.
Seems like they're already going.
Another important element: this will only be one block away from the Streetcar! We're finally getting the dense, urban environment we've wanted for many years. The transformation of OKC over the next four or five years is going to be dramatic.
As fast as things seem to be moving, I think the pace could pick up considerably due to the interest of outsiders and also the freeing up of the capital markets.
Mississippi Blues 10-25-2013, 12:06 AM Here are some of the other projects done by Brooks' partner, Indianapolis based Milhaus Development (http://www.milhausventures.com/portfolio/all-projects):
Sexy. I like them.
I have great respect for what the many local developers have done thus far but it's always good to get some outside perspective, especially from those that have done successful urban development elsewhere.
soonerguru 10-25-2013, 12:11 AM I have great respect for what the many local developers have done thus far but it's always good to get some outside perspective, especially from those that have done successful urban development elsewhere.
Yes. I'm thrilled we've had local folks pony up the bucks on the early projects, but some of the design quality is not that impressive. I still salute their efforts.
This and The Metropolitan look like a big step forward design wise, this even more so. I just wish these were for-sale projects, because my family is ready to move to Midtown right now.
Any idea when this is set to break ground?
Praedura 10-25-2013, 12:14 AM Holy sh**! This is freaking awesome!
Five stories? Somebody slap me!
Wow. Things are popping now.
soonerguru 10-25-2013, 12:18 AM Steve hinted in a recent chat that there would be a number of exciting announcements for OKC over the next 60 days. This has to be one of them.
Curious: how many new downtown residents will we have in five years? Also, when will MidTown Renaissance announce their housing project on 10th, and how many residents will it hold?
These are exciting times for our city.
CaptDave 10-25-2013, 12:18 AM I have great respect for what the many local developers have done thus far but it's always good to get some outside perspective, especially from those that have done successful urban development elsewhere.
Gary Brooks has risen to the top of that list of local developers in my opinion. I am no expert in residential development by any means, but his last three projects will are very well done. I happened to be in the OCURA meeting when he presented his revised plan for the Steel Yard and he seems to be like "old school" developers who want to leave something to be proud of in a couple decades.
Mississippi Blues 10-25-2013, 12:21 AM Holy sh**! This is freaking awesome!
Five stories? Somebody slap me!
Wow. Things are popping now.
I was looking at a design the other day of an 8 story apartment complex that's about to break ground in Los Angeles & though to myself "I wonder when OKC will start getting developments like that". Well, this is actually a similar design to that complex in LA, it's just 3 stories shorter. Sort of a funny coincidence.
Viva La Taller Apartments In OKC!!!
ljbab728 10-25-2013, 12:28 AM Curious: how many new downtown residents will we have in five years?
I would think that a conservative estimate would be 2 - 3 thousand.
soonerguru 10-25-2013, 12:29 AM I would think that a conservative estimate would be 2 - 3 thousand.
We should shoot for 20,000. Need to start building some high rises.
ljbab728 10-25-2013, 12:33 AM We should shoot for 20,000. Need to start building some high rises.
I have no problem with that but it won't happen in the next 5 years. :)
Praedura 10-25-2013, 12:35 AM I have great respect for what the many local developers have done thus far but it's always good to get some outside perspective, especially from those that have done successful urban development elsewhere.
Not only is it good to have fresh viewpoints and ideas, but, concerning outside developers... THERE'S A LOT MORE OF THEM! And they come in toting that big load of OUTSIDE CASH. $$$$
:)
As shown in the Downtown Housing Summary, there were 3,500 multi-family units (existing and firm proposals) before this last spate of announcements.
We are now around 4,000 (will update summary tomorrow) and at 2 people per unit, that would be 8,000... And that's not including single-family.
Praedura 10-25-2013, 12:37 AM http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7459/10469510234_febc9894bd_o.png
^ like!
Plutonic Panda 10-25-2013, 12:41 AM We should shoot for 20,000. Need to start building some high rises.I wonder what kind of high-rise could we realistically expect though? I really think if OKC becomes progressive enough will having aggressive developers to tackle this, we could perhaps support a 55-60 story high-rise such as The Austonian in Austin, in about 5 years.
http://c767204.r4.cf2.rackcdn.com/7c84528c-f5a9-4b4c-952b-625a89378644_300.jpg
http://www.pitchengine.com/theaustonian/downtown-austin-high-rise-condo-features-builtin-entertaining-spaces
This would be awesome in the C2S area overlooking the new park.
Mississippi Blues 10-25-2013, 12:46 AM I wonder what kind of high-rise could we realistically expect though? I really think if OKC becomes progressive enough will having aggressive developers to tackle this, we could perhaps support a 55-60 story high-rise such as The Austonian in Austin, in about 5 years.
http://c767204.r4.cf2.rackcdn.com/7c84528c-f5a9-4b4c-952b-625a89378644_300.jpg
Downtown Austin High Rise Condo Features Built-in Entertaining Spaces (http://www.pitchengine.com/theaustonian/downtown-austin-high-rise-condo-features-builtin-entertaining-spaces)
This would be awesome in the C2S area overlooking the new park.
I've always thought something like The Austonian would fit in OKC.
CaptDave 10-25-2013, 12:48 AM I think the next high rise residential could be part of the convention center hotel building. The Fort Worth Omni is the type of development I can see working. The residential area is the glass tower above the lower hotel areas. (It is also very similar to the one Cuatrodemayo used in this boulevard rendering.)
http://www.fortwortharchitecture.com/omni-const-sw.jpg
Teo9969 10-25-2013, 12:49 AM If everything proposed comes to fruition as designed, then rental units will increase by 86.8% in, what, 2.5 years?
We only need to add 243 more proposed units to double the amount of units currently available downtown. That seems almost a slam dunk with whatever MR builds on 10th/Hudson.
I'm actually really excited that everything going on in Midtown is north of 9th...all this excellent development should encourage developers between North Midtown and the CBD to knock it out of the park.
Plutonic Panda 10-25-2013, 01:04 AM I've always thought something like The Austonian would fit in OKC.Yeah, I think it is just a matter of time now! Will be really exciting to see one announced.
I think the next high rise residential could be part of the convention center hotel building. The Fort Worth Omni is the type of development I can see working. The residential area is the glass tower above the lower hotel areas. (It is also very similar to the one Cuatrodemayo used in this boulevard rendering.)
http://www.fortwortharchitecture.com/omni-const-sw.jpgI almost posted that as opposed to The Austonian. That would be really sweet as well.
Praedura 10-25-2013, 01:07 AM Maybe Pete should put up a thread called 'Residential Explosion in Midtown'... :wink:
:cool:
Praedura 10-25-2013, 01:14 AM I think it was that Uber announcement that did it. Once developers found out we had Uber in OKC, they all came a running to throw cash at us for residential projects.
:Smiley112
betts 10-25-2013, 01:47 AM If Homeland were smart, they'd do the math and remodel their Classen store before some other grocery company figures this out.
Teo9969 10-25-2013, 02:16 AM Homeland would do well to remodel that store anyway...it only sits on the outskirts of 2 of the nicest neighborhoods in OKC.
More so than Homeland remodeling, if Deep Deuce wants a full-stock grocery store they probably need to beat Midtown to the punch. Otherwise, I could see Midtown getting a grocery store that serves the whole downtown community.
UnFrSaKn 10-25-2013, 03:55 AM http://m.newsok.com/42.5-million-apartment-complex-announced-for-midtown/article/3897276
LakeEffect 10-25-2013, 08:16 AM Homeland would do well to remodel that store anyway...it only sits on the outskirts of 2 of the nicest neighborhoods in OKC.
More so than Homeland remodeling, if Deep Deuce wants a full-stock grocery store they probably need to beat Midtown to the punch. Otherwise, I could see Midtown getting a grocery store that serves the whole downtown community.
Well said.
sroberts24 10-25-2013, 08:21 AM Sweet baby Jesus this is awesome! About time we get something like this! I think everybody's response has been like mine, scroll scroll Holy Cow! (Harry Caray voice)
This is awesome. I love my neighborhood.
Homeland would do well to remodel that store anyway...it only sits on the outskirts of 2 of the nicest neighborhoods in OKC.
More so than Homeland remodeling, if Deep Deuce wants a full-stock grocery store they probably need to beat Midtown to the punch. Otherwise, I could see Midtown getting a grocery store that serves the whole downtown community.
What I would give to have Homeland remodel that store.
BoulderSooner 10-25-2013, 09:16 AM This has been long rumored. And in fact this block was shown on the new midtown redevolopment plan as pending development. Great to see that it Is 1 this many units and 2 has a great design
I just hope these fill up and the supply doesn't outpace the demand.
betts 10-25-2013, 09:35 AM I just hope these fill up and the supply doesn't outpace the demand.
Someone will be left without a chair in this cakewalk because developers usually don't stop until they discover they've run out of demand. That's when I'd start selling instead of renting. There will be a real dearth of for sale housing for the people who decide they want to stay downtown as they get older and are ready to buy. I'd condominiumize the Deep Deuce Apartments, selling one building at a time, if I were the owners of them.
I've updated the Downtown Housing Summary to reflect this project and bring it current.
Just the facts 10-25-2013, 09:54 AM Someone will be left without a chair in this cakewalk because developers usually don't stop until they discover they've run out of demand. That's when I'd start selling instead of renting. There will be a real dearth of for sale housing for the people who decide they want to stay downtown as they get older and are ready to buy. I'd condominiumize the Deep Deuce Apartments, selling one building at a time, if I were the owners of them.
OKC is light years away from running out of demand. Nationally, it is something like 58% of all people want to live in walkable neighborhoods. So lets just assume OKC is average, that is about 600,000 OKC metro residents and you can count the walkable metro OKC neighborhoods on one hand. You are right about Deep Deuce apartments. If I owned them I would be looking into condo conversion as soon as the banks will start making condo loans. If that doesn't happen soon they will need to start tearing them down and making them more dense. While dense at the time they were constructed (especially by OKC standards), you can see there is a lot of wasted space there now. DD Apt took 4.5 city blocks to provide approx. the same number of units as The Edge did in 1 block, and this project does even more.
betts 10-25-2013, 10:16 AM Oh, it may take years, but it will happen. Developers rarely know when to quit.
Pete, your graphic is a bit misleading. What is the yellow spot? The project is to the west of that.
Awesome news, by the way.
Anonymous. 10-25-2013, 10:28 AM This looks fantastic.
THank you for the number breakdown on current DT residents.
4-5k currently and 7-8k projected based on confirmed projects.
Pete, your graphic is a bit misleading. What is the yellow spot? The project is to the west of that.
Awesome news, by the way.
I corrected it.
Praedura 10-25-2013, 10:43 AM Homeland would do well to remodel that store anyway...it only sits on the outskirts of 2 of the nicest neighborhoods in OKC.
More so than Homeland remodeling, if Deep Deuce wants a full-stock grocery store they probably need to beat Midtown to the punch. Otherwise, I could see Midtown getting a grocery store that serves the whole downtown community.
Somehow I have the feeling that a grocery store for Midtown may be already in the works, and that we just haven't heard about it yet. Of course, this is just a pure guess on my part.
betts 10-25-2013, 10:47 AM I don't care if we have a big grocery in Deep Deuce. Native Roots is great to have. We can always take the streetcar to a grocery store in Midtown if they get one and we need items Native Roots doesn't carry
soonerguru 10-25-2013, 10:58 AM It would be great if Urban Renewal would consider opening up the broad swath of parcels between 10th Street South to, say 7th Street for a major retail development. It seems this is one of the few large blocks of land in the core left to build such a development, and might finally put the last missing piece of the puzzle for our reinvention in place.
Teo9969 10-25-2013, 11:52 AM From Steve's article:
“It's hard to argue that Midtown offers the best quality of life for downtown residents right now if you're wanting more than just an apartment and a couple of restaurants,” Brooks said.
Not really a fan of this Deep Deuce pot-shot...especially when you consider that a lot of things are about to come online for DD that have more uses than just residential.
And the lack of purchasable residence in Midtown is a serious advantage to DD.
Urbanized 10-25-2013, 12:53 PM I caught that comment and was disappointed by it. It's human nature, I guess, but personally I would rather not see people (especially those with influence) pitting one downtown district against the other. One of the things that makes downtown so appealing is the proximity to other districts. When Midtown improves, it makes things better for people in Deep Deuce, and vice-versa. These districts are not in silos, or a vacuum. One of the things that for instance makes the Metropolitan so appealing is of course its proximity to Automobile Alley/9th, but make no mistake the people there will also value easy access to Deep Deuce, Bricktown, the CBD, Midtown, the health center...CONNECTIONS TO OTHER COOL PLACES is a large part of what makes downtown living appealing.
When he makes this somewhat negative comment obviously directed at Deep Deuce, he ignores the fact that people in DD are only a couple hundred yards and a pleasant walk away from Bricktown. They are also convenient to Chesapeake arena, and an easier walk to the CBD. If you want to make the mistake of keeping score, they probably win. But why keep score? It's pointless and potentially destructive. If you want to contrast lifestyles to sell people on the idea of living there, contrast it with people paying big apartment rents in the far northwest part of OKC, who have to drive...everywhere.
The residents in this new Midtown locale are unquestionably going to love living in this place, walking down the street to McNellie's, Waffle Champion, GoGo, Fassler Hall, et al, but they are also very convenient to Plaza District, 23rd Street and elsewhere. Believe me, they won't be spending all of their time on the streets of Midtown. This is not a zero sum game, and we shouldn't treat it like one. I've said for years that we are not slicing up the same pie into smaller pieces; we're baking a larger pie.
That said, this place is truly fantastic and exciting.
soonerguru 10-25-2013, 01:07 PM I caught that comment and was disappointed by it. It's human nature, I guess, but personally I would rather not see people (especially those with influence) pitting one downtown district against the other. One of the things that makes downtown so appealing is the proximity to other districts. When Midtown improves, it makes things better for people in Deep Deuce, and vice-versa. These districts are not in silos, or a vacuum. One of the things that for instance makes the Metropolitan so appealing is of course its proximity to Automobile Alley/9th, but make no mistake the people there will also value easy access to Deep Deuce, Bricktown, the CBD, Midtown, the health center...CONNECTIONS TO OTHER COOL PLACES is a large part of what makes downtown living appealing.
When he makes this somewhat negative comment obviously directed at Deep Deuce, he ignores the fact that people in DD are only a couple hundred yards and a pleasant walk away from Bricktown. They are also convenient to Chesapeake arena, and an easier walk to the CBD. If you want to make the mistake of keeping score, they probably win. But why keep score? It's pointless and potentially destructive. If you want to contrast lifestyles to sell people on the idea of living there, contrast it with people paying big apartment rents in the far northwest part of OKC, who have to drive...everywhere.
The residents in this new Midtown locale are unquestionably going to love living in this place, walking down the street to McNellie's, Waffle Champion, GoGo, Fassler Hall, et al, but they are also very convenient to Plaza District, 23rd Street and elsewhere. Believe me, they won't be spending all of their time on the streets of Midtown. This is not a zero sum game, and we shouldn't treat it like one. I've said for years that we are not slicing up the same pie into smaller pieces; we're baking a larger pie.
That said, this place is truly fantastic and exciting.
To be fair, Brooks is building a very large apartment community at the southern edge of Deep Deuce, so it's hard to imagine him slighting Deep Deuce or Bricktown. Perhaps it was a potshot at suburban living options?
One more point: the streetcar will make all of this a moot point anyway; people will be a pleasant 10-minute ride away from anywhere in Downtown.
Teo9969 10-25-2013, 01:14 PM When I was in Berlin for 14 days, I stayed at any hostel for 4 days tops. I think I ended up staying in 5 different hostels in 2 weeks during my time there. It was really cool to see the differences in various districts, and while I had my preferences (Prenzlauer Berg and Oranienburg) other districts had certain things to offer that those places did not, and furthermore, they provided VARIETY to what I realize would otherwise become a bland experience after a period of time.
So it's not just cooking a larger pie, it's adding more interesting ingredients to make the whole shebang taste better.
From Steve's article:
Not really a fan of this Deep Deuce pot-shot...especially when you consider that a lot of things are about to come online for DD that have more uses than just residential.
And the lack of purchasable residence in Midtown is a serious advantage to DD.
Yeah, when he said "it's hard to argue", all I could think was that it's actually quite easy to argue, since DD is actually the only area now that is within 10 blocks of a couple dozen restaurants of all varieties and offers more 2000+ square feet for sale options. Plus, you got the CBD, a movie theater, music venues, and 20k seat arena within walking distance that midtown won't ever have (well, I'd probably walk those places from midtown, but a lot of people here probably won't). I love midtown and think it has a ton of potential, but right now it really is a handful of very good mid-level restaurants and rental apartments. Nothing wrong with that, but the irony is that midtown, right now, is the place you go if you want an apartment near a couple of restaurants.
In the end, I think he was just trying to sell the idea and promote it, but using the inaccurate relative comparison to do it did make him come of sounding a little foolish.
Rover 10-25-2013, 01:18 PM People read WAY too much into some of these statements. Don't look for controversy where it doesn't exist. If anyone understands the dynamics between the sub-sectors of the entire core it is Brooks.
Urbanized 10-25-2013, 01:33 PM To be fair, Brooks is building a very large apartment community at the southern edge of Deep Deuce, so it's hard to imagine him slighting Deep Deuce or Bricktown. Perhaps it was a potshot at suburban living options?
One more point: the streetcar will make all of this a moot point anyway; people will be a pleasant 10-minute ride away from anywhere in Downtown.
No, pretty sure it was a not-so-subtle dig at other parts of downtown, saying this location was somehow better than they are:
“It's hard to argue that Midtown offers the best quality of life for downtown residents right now if you're wanting more than just an apartment and a couple of restaurants,” Brooks said.
But, it's not really a big deal. As you point out, he's invested elsewhere, and it doesn't affect my enthusiasm for all of the great work he's doing. Probably just a minor slip in the excitement of talking about why THIS place is awesome.
I am just keenly aware of and opposed to the pitting of urban districts against each other. I am of the strongly-held conviction that we are all on the same team, or at least should be.
People read WAY too much into some of these statements. Don't look for controversy where it doesn't exist. If anyone understands the dynamics between the sub-sectors of the entire core it is Brooks.
No one has to read very far into that to see it as a comparison to (an)other district(s) he was painting as inferior. That's what he said. It's quite possible he misrepresented himself, but it's certainly not unreasonable for anyone to take it that way. Hey, he has money in it. I don't fault him for trying to sell it. He just did it in a way that made him sound a little ignorant about other DT areas, of which he obviously isn't.
Just the facts 10-25-2013, 02:22 PM I caught that comment and was disappointed by it. It's human nature, I guess, but personally I would rather not see people (especially those with influence) pitting one downtown district against the other. One of the things that makes downtown so appealing is the proximity to other districts. When Midtown improves, it makes things better for people in Deep Deuce, and vice-versa. These districts are not in silos, or a vacuum. One of the things that for instance makes the Metropolitan so appealing is of course its proximity to Automobile Alley/9th, but make no mistake the people there will also value easy access to Deep Deuce, Bricktown, the CBD, Midtown, the health center...CONNECTIONS TO OTHER COOL PLACES is a large part of what makes downtown living appealing.
In the book Suburban Nation the authors point out that in walkable urban neighborhoods, the development of an adjacent walkable urban neighborhood improves both, but in suburbia the development of a new subdivision destroys the qualities that many of the people moved to the first subdivision for. You see it at City Hall when people fight new subdivisions - but you don't see downtown residents crying foul (except a couple of crack-pots in HH) and saying all these new developments are destroying the area. Funny how that works.
LakeEffect 10-25-2013, 02:59 PM In the book Suburban Nation the authors point out that in walkable urban neighborhoods, the development of an adjacent walkable urban neighborhood improves both, but in suburbia the development of a new subdivision destroys the qualities that many of the people moved to the first subdivision for. You see it at City Hall when people fight new subdivisions - but you don't see downtown residents crying foul (except a couple of crack-pots in HH) and saying all these new developments are destroying the area. Funny how that works.
Well, you did when Heritage Hills residents spoke out against the Edge...
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