Hey, good post riflesforwatie.

One spot where I do think Tulsa still has a big advantage, and likely always will, is in its historic housing stock, which by my estimation dwarves OKC's (though I don't have numbers or statistics for that).

Great post overall. I said earlier that the thing that I was most jealous of on my trip up there were the historical buildings and Cathedrals, but when I really thought about it, I realized there's no sense in being jealous about the fact that Tulsa was far and away richer during the 1st half of the 20th century. Tulsa needs to capitalize on that as it develops.

One spot where I do think Tulsa still has a big advantage, and likely always will, is in its historic housing stock, which by my estimation dwarves OKC's (though I don't have numbers or statistics for that).

This got me curious. According to the Census, OKC has about 19,400 housing structures built in 1939 and earlier, and Tulsa has about 15,400 housing structures built in 1939 and earlier. The range of years aren't broken down any more prior to 1939.

One spot where I do think Tulsa still has a big advantage, and likely always will, is in its historic housing stock, which by my estimation dwarves OKC's (though I don't have numbers or statistics for that).

I'm not so sure the difference is as pronounced as you may think. While Tulsa's historic housing in Midtown and Riverside is more contiguous and most of it never experienced the major downturn that OKC's had to rebound from, I think our historic housing stock in the inner core and nichols hills area compares pretty favorably with Tulsa (at least in quantity). Tulsa might have more mansion sized historic housing than OKC does, but we still have a fairly good amount of large old houses here. There are a bunch of large historic houses in Heritage Hills, Mesta Park, Lincoln Terrace, Gatewood, Crown Heights, Edgemere Park, Linwood, Putnum Heights, and Nichols Hills. Additionally, the Paseo, Crestwood, Miller, Jefferson Park, Shepherd, Cleveland, Edgemere Heights, Las Vegas/Aurora, Classen-Tenn-Penn, Dennison Park, Douglas Park, and Central Park in addition to the other neighborhoods I listed have a ton of small to mid-sized historic houses as well as historic duplexes and apartment buildings.

Unfortunately in terms of quality, a lot of our historic housing has had to go through a long term gentrification process but that's really been picking up speed over the last few years. So while it may seem that we have less historic housing than Tulsa, I don't know if that is necessarily the case.

The highways surrounding Tulsa's downtown really hurt in that respect. When I went to see the show at Cain's last August, we stayed at the Ambassador on 14th and Main...I felt a little ridiculous taking a cab to/from the hotel because it's barely a mile walk, but it's such an uninspiring walk that it felt like the only option.

But with 75 being right there, it doesn't really foster the connectivity that you would want to see between Cherry St. all the way up to Brady district, which is only about 1/5 mile further than Reno/Walnut to 13th/Walker, and about a 1/2 mile shorter than the distance between the Boathouse district and 13th/Walker.

I was going to mention this as well. Downtown Tulsa feels like it's on an island to a point because of all the highways that cut it off from Midtown, the Pearl, etc. The fact that all of our downtown/inner core districts as well as historic neighborhoods are fairly well connected (or at least feel that way and will be in the future) is an underrated advantage that OKC has over not just Tulsa but also cities like Fort Worth, Dallas, and Houston. Think the urban connectivity of Denver vs. all of those cities. It should be really cool when everything is completely connected over the next few years.

None that is to say that Tulsa isn't doing cool things and improving itself quite a bit, I just don't think it is ahead of OKC in terms of development.

Just wanted to point out the convention center and park are fully funded and in progress, so most of that area will be developed in the next 2-3 years.

That will really only leave the Producers Coop but specific plans are underway for that too, with significant investment (purchase of both the Lumberyard and Coop itself) already made.

Very different than just tons of surface lots without any clear plan or committed developers. In Tulsa's situation, those holes are likely to be there for quite a while, as our own Core 2 Shore and MAPS stuff has been in the works for a couple of decades, just to get us to where we are now.

You could even throw the Wheeler District into that.

Ya, it is very hard to miss OKC's downtown growth and it is hard not to notice what Tulsa has done so quickly. But as has been said OKC is a much larger city with a much larger downtown so not surprising while Tulsa had a better head start with a smaller pallette and already existing 'good bones' (not to mention able to 'watch' OKC for benchmarking).

I agree that it is great that both cities have proper urban cores but it wont benefit the state as a whole until the rest of the state allows Tulsa and especially OKC to be able to compete with regional and national players/competition. As long as the state keeps holding us back, OKC will always have that 2nd place feel to it when compared with the Denvers, Indys, New Orleans, Portland, SLC, and Sacramento - bunch of peer cities.

What I mean by this is the state needs to revise the tax code: my wish, get rid of the state personal income tax, remove/reduce corporate breaks to energy co's (but do this slowly so nobody goes under), allow cities to receive some income from property tax (at least corporate parcels), REDUCE the number of school districts!!!!, continue the beter liquor reforms, come up with some ideas for especially OKC to compete against regional and national competition and Tulsa to compete against regional comp. In other words, stop letting the rural rule this state - they would benefit much moreso if OKC and Tulsa could better compete.

I now have the feeling Pete will create a new thread for these past few posts, since these points are important but not too relevant to the wonderful LIFT project ... . lol.

I agree with all of this except the taxation policy. The state has been "getting rid" of income taxes, and our state budget has been wrecked. Add to what you said get the legislature and governor to quit pursuing narrow, unconstitutional ideological battles designed to appeal to rural, base voters.

This is getting close. The front looks done, but there's still some work to be done on the west side. Oh, and The Frank turned out fantastic.

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http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/lift103016b.jpg

I love this development. It's really too bad that Milhaus won't be doing anything else in OKC.

Man, the presence on that traffic circle is pretty special.

I love this development. It's really too bad that Milhaus won't be doing anything else in OKC.

Why not?

Why not?

Because they couldn't find deals that fit their short pay-back requirements.

I'm surprised this project isn't done yet, but there's still a small amount of exterior work to be done. It's looking really clean though.

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I have to wonder why they put "Juliet Balconies" on many of the units and much larger balconies on others.

Is this place stick built, or steel framing?

Have seen they allow pets, so I'm looking for a place with the best noise insulation in the mid/deuce/town area...suggestions welcome.

I have to wonder why they put "Juliet Balconies" on many of the units and much larger balconies on others.

Most likely to be able to compete with different price points by having a larger variety of offerings. They can charge more for large balconies, and compete with cheaper properties by having units without significant balconies.

Is this place stick built, or steel framing?

Have seen they allow pets, so I'm looking for a place with the best noise insulation in the mid/deuce/town area...suggestions welcome.

Stick built. Page 13 of this thread has some good construction pictures.

Is this place stick built, or steel framing?

Have seen they allow pets, so I'm looking for a place with the best noise insulation in the mid/deuce/town area...suggestions welcome.

Wood, concrete, steel. When I lived in the Duece and later Avanta, I was so glad that I had a 3rd-floor apartment. Visiting others, the sound of feet and stuff dropped from above was awful.

Spoke to the leasing agent, they are currently in the 40 something % occupied, with pre-leasing, April is closer to 50%. Their incentive is 500$ off 1st mo. rent, and the pool is filled.

If the apartments on the west side are ready, they just became so very recently.

Went by there today and it doesn't look like anybody is living there yet or perhaps they are just starting to lease those units.

Milhaus looks to recapitalize portfolio
By: Molly M. Fleming The Journal Record March 16, 2017

OKLAHOMA CITY – The Lift is being offered as part of a 13-property, multifamily and mixed-use portfolio, owned and managed by Milhaus. The properties could be recapitalized, or 12 of them could be sold. The Lift isn’t for sale.

Milhaus CEO Tadd Miller said the company wants to keep the Oklahoma City property, but it needs to get new capital on the books.

“It’s an awesome location and we love the city,” he said. “Now is not the time to be selling in the Oklahoma City market.”

The 2,300-unit portfolio also has 122,456 square feet of commercial space. It’s worth between $425 million and $450 million. It spans five other cities: Indianapolis, Louisville, Cincinnati, Memphis, and Milwaukee.

CBRE’s Steve LaMotte and Dane Wilson in the company’s Indiana office are handling the marketing. Milhaus is headquartered in Indianapolis.

LaMotte said there are several investors looking for Class A properties, like the Milhaus portfolio. He said the marketing started with a wide net, and now there are about 250 groups interested in pursuing the properties.

“It could be a single transaction with one group or it could get broken into sub-groupings,” he said. “There could be a single investment group that comes in and recapitalizes Lift, and another group picks up the others. There’s a wide range in which this could all transact.”

He said The Lift is the only one on the list that is not for sale.

“They’d like to stay in as many markets as possible,” he said.

LaMotte said The Lift is an attractive property because of its location, referring to Midtown as a phenomenal area. He said the renter is looking for brand-new Class A properties, which is what the investor wants as well.

He said the viability of Oklahoma City’s economy is attractive to some investors. While some markets may be more stable, Oklahoma City’s robust times related to oil prices are different than other Midwestern cities.

Richard Howell with Holliday American Mortgage said he doesn’t think there will be any issues with finding the capital for The Lift, but that depends on whether the loan is a conservative first mortgage. He said he’s seeing a lot of investors looking for Class A properties.

LaMotte said the first round of offers will be due in April. The group will be narrowed to 15, which will then go to about five. He didn’t have a timeline for when the sale or recapitalization would be final.

“There are still a lot of processes to go on between now and then,” he said.

Ya I would say their OKC complex, the Lift, definitely wont be for sale since they received TIF money for it. I believe there is a stipulation on getting TIF dollars and not being able to sell the property for so many years.

But if they did, I guess thats a good way for the city to get out of their payment obligations and would still have a new apartment complex.

Has anything ever gone into this property's storefront space? This thing is coming up on 7 years since opening.

Has anything ever gone into this property's storefront space? This thing is coming up on 7 years since opening.I drive by there daily. No, nothing has ever gone into the storefront space. It's weird!

Has anything ever gone into this property's storefront space? This thing is coming up on 7 years since opening.

The Edge has a location exponentially better and they've gone through about 10 tenants thus far.

They finally gave up on the corner location and converted it into office space.

The Steelyard still has a bunch of vacant space.

The Edge has a location exponentially better and they've gone through about 10 tenants thus far.

They finally gave up on the corner location and converted it into office space.

The Steelyard still has a bunch of vacant space.

Even something like a Great Clips or SuperCuts is better than nothing. Lower the rent a bit and bring something that creates SOME value for the neighborhood. I get that brick and mortar retail is dying, but it's not dead and at some point something is better than nothing.