This is true, but it won't take too long in the grand scheme of things for Midtown to get there. The 10th/Walker corridor has already achieved impressive density, just within the past 2-3 years. LiFT (the topic of this thread) is going to fundamentally change its area. Honestly I give Midtown 5 years before it's density is among the best in downtown, and in less than 10 it will be substantially built out. That is crazy-fast in the downtown redevelopment world.

I'd say place making in Midtown is pretty easy. The structure of the district actually guides it very clearly:

10th/Walker is the center and all major traffic (not necessarily vehicular) should be funneled through that center.

Major development should be located on those thoroughfares. 10th: LIFT, St. Anthony's, City Church, Buick. Walker: Edge, Osler, Midtown Plaza. This is why Midtown is moving so quickly: because there's a well defined center and the most important developments are taking place on the corridors associated with that center. If the Edge was built on the SW block of 8th/Dewey, we'd be in trouble.

The most important lot remains the EMSA building, and, in my eyes, as soon as that is developed, if it is a home run development, then we will instantly have the new best urban district in OKC.

Midtown is large, so there can be a whole lot of great stuff there and it still not be 100% filled in.
Midtown is developing rapidly, so we can see a lot of progress and it gives you a real sense of how busy things are.
Midtown benefits from seeing the mistakes that were made in other districts, so it can avoid suburbany projects.
Midtown has a lot of investors with a specific vision and the funding needed to pull it off.

Gotta disagree with you a little bit here, Metro. The main reason Midtown has been so successful of late is because they have a single development group controlling large swaths of real estate, a group who absolutely "gets" urban redevelopment. The work they are doing inspires confidence in other developers, who know that if they sink money/effort into smaller/individual projects (like LIFT) they won't have to worry about their neighbor coming in and mucking things up for the whole neighborhood.

Bricktown never really operated like that. There was never a large developer with an urbanist bent and an over-arching strategy...until now. With the Burnett/Martin and sometimes Brooks partnerships you have a bunch of well-funded guys committed to Bricktown's future and to its overall environmental details. This is already giving other developers confidence to do individual projects that will give the district a richer texture.

The BUDC has been a mixed bag through the years, with some failures but also some definite wins. Now that committee has shed some individuals who were lightning rods for controversy, and replaced them with two guys who are especially bright and committed. Jon Dodson is deeply involved in ULI, he is a partner in the Tower Theater, he is leading the Better Classen walkability/bikability/place making initiative, and brings a wealth of financial expertise to the role.

I haven't yet gotten to know Sandino Thompson well, but he has an extensive background in commercial construction and community rebuilding. In the meetings I've been in with him he routinely asks the most insightful questions. I have been incredibly impressed. So that committee is now head and shoulders more qualified than in the past.

What Bricktown still has that no other district enjoys as much of is intact, contiguous fabric and building stock. To some extent, walkability and place making are easier tasks there; it's just that nobody paid much attention to either for the past 25 years.

I have always wondered where Burnett and company have received their funding to be as aggressive as they have. Any ideas?

10483
10484

4/18/2015

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/KerryinJax/OKC%20Stuff/lift/CAM03630_zps1fkvcouz.jpg (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/KerryinJax/media/OKC%20Stuff/lift/CAM03630_zps1fkvcouz.jpg.html)
http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/KerryinJax/OKC%20Stuff/lift/CAM03624_zps7vr2gyxs.jpg (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/KerryinJax/media/OKC%20Stuff/lift/CAM03624_zps7vr2gyxs.jpg.html)
http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/KerryinJax/OKC%20Stuff/lift/CAM03622_zpszk6k0rw8.jpg (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/KerryinJax/media/OKC%20Stuff/lift/CAM03622_zpszk6k0rw8.jpg.html)
http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/KerryinJax/OKC%20Stuff/lift/CAM03633_zpstgqbrnos.jpg (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/KerryinJax/media/OKC%20Stuff/lift/CAM03633_zpstgqbrnos.jpg.html)
http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/KerryinJax/OKC%20Stuff/lift/CAM03628_zpseyvvcevu.jpg (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/KerryinJax/media/OKC%20Stuff/lift/CAM03628_zpseyvvcevu.jpg.html)

That sign says 'fall 2015'. I am opening a gentleman's bet on the actual completion date. My wager is April 2016.

Let me think about that wager and go by again. If they open in phases that northeast section could be done by then.

That sign says 'fall 2015'. I am opening a gentleman's bet on the actual completion date. My wager is April 2016.

Opening and completion aren't the same thing here.

Kerry, I am waiting on your reply.

CAM03622_zpszk6k0rw8.jpg Photo by KerryinJax | Photobucket (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/KerryinJax/media/OKC%20Stuff/lift/CAM03622_zpszk6k0rw8.jpg.html)

I wonder if this builder is keeping an eye on this:
Balcony in fatal Berkeley collapse had severe dry rot - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/23/us/berkeley-balcony-collapse-dry-rot/)

Kerry, I am waiting on your reply.

Sorry, just saw this. I haven't been over there in awhile. I'll take a walk over after work.

CAM03622_zpszk6k0rw8.jpg Photo by KerryinJax | Photobucket (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/KerryinJax/media/OKC%20Stuff/lift/CAM03622_zpszk6k0rw8.jpg.html)

I wonder if this builder is keeping an eye on this:
Balcony in fatal Berkeley collapse had severe dry rot - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/23/us/berkeley-balcony-collapse-dry-rot/)

While an incident like this calls attention, this is not a new problem and one of the reasons for not putting balconies (or other external hung or wood supported protruding elements) on wooden structures. If there are any design, construction or maintenance flaws, water can infiltrate and eventually rot the wooden support structures. While it isn't the cause in this case, it is one of the reasons I am so opposed to through-the-wall air conditioners (ptacs) as they are open holes that are difficult to seal and keep sealed and you put hundreds on a building. Water and air tends to infiltrate. Put them in stick structures like we are building all over downtown and you can see the opportunity for wood rot, mold and fungus. This is why I keep advocating better construction downtown.

Thanks to our friends at CloudDeck Media for this great photo:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/lift062915.jpg

Kerry, I am waiting on your reply.

I went by last week. They just started putting brick on the north buildings. Think I'll pass on your bet. :)

That sign says 'fall 2015'. I am opening a gentleman's bet on the actual completion date. My wager is April 2016.

So I'd have until December 22nd?

So I'd have until December 22nd?

Sure as defined by the move in of the first tenant.

Thanks to David for the photos.

First is from the traffic circle at 10th & Shartel looking NW; that's the retail space on the ground floor. Second is at the NE corner of the block looking southwest.



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/lift072515a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/lift072515b.jpg

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but their website is live and has all the floorplans and other info:

Lift Apartments, OKC (http://www.liftokc.com/)

Took these a couple hours ago:

11368 11369 11370

You can see the final exterior finish in the 2nd photo; it's some sort of panel system and looks pretty cool:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/lift092415a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/lift092415b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/lift092415c.jpg

Here are a couple of the backside facing east:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/lift092615a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/lift092615b.jpg

Interesting strategy: They have set up their pre-leasing office in the Plaza:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CP14d_6VAAAzzUU.jpg

I'm surprised the Plaza has an empty storefront for them. That's a great opportunity to seek out their demographic.

11684

11685

Developer is moving along with plans to expand Lift apartments in Midtown | News OK (http://newsok.com/developer-is-moving-along-with-plans-to-expand-lift-apartments-in-midtown/article/5456650)

Developer is moving along with plans to expand Lift apartments in Midtown | News OK (http://newsok.com/developer-is-moving-along-with-plans-to-expand-lift-apartments-in-midtown/article/5456650)

L2 - OKCTalk (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=L2)

L2 - OKCTalk (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=L2)

lulz

I'm surprised the Plaza has an empty storefront for them. That's a great opportunity to seek out their demographic.

I think the studios start around 1k a month. I've spoken about this with people in the Plaza, and the response I've received indicates they are not the appreciative demographic for this development.

That's not an egregious amount...

That's not an egregious amount...

Not for well-paid yuppies.

It seems all the new and newer construction is priced in a pretty similar window.

However, there are still tons of small, older buildings in the core where you can get an apartment much cheaper. Just go to Craigslist and there are always a bunch.

The good news is these big complexes are bringing hundreds of people downtown in a very short period of time, and that's a big reason why we are seeing so many bars, restaurants and other things to do continually popping up.

Not for well-paid yuppies.

What does this mean? I've often wondered what people mean by well paid. Like what's the line for that?

What does this mean? I've often wondered what people mean by well paid. Like what's the line for that?

In OKC, I'd suspect somewhere around $60K/annually?

So if you're 26 and make 60k you're a yuppie? That's tough...

So if you're 26 and make 60k you're a yuppie? That's tough...

Dunno if that's an accurate number, I just pulled it out of ...... Wasn't saying anything about whether or not it makes you a yuppie or not, just addressed the "well paid" part. It's about double the median wage for OK and/or OKC, I think, so "well paid" may be less or more, probably depends on if you're "well paid" or not. I made $26K when I was 26, but that was back in 1991, so I was probably "well paid" back then, and I know I'm "well paid" now.

What does this mean? I've often wondered what people mean by well paid. Like what's the line for that?

What people can afford to spend on housing? It's not that complicated.

So if you're 26 and make 60k you're a yuppie? That's tough...

I wouldn't think so, but most people 26 or under don't make near 60k a year... at least not in Oklahoma.

That's basically entry level salary for an engineer in Oklahoma... Electrical, petroleum, computer, whatever. There will be lots of folks in that age range who can afford them. Also, $1000-1500 a month is pretty common now for apartments in the metro especially down there.

35% of income toward rent/mortgage is considered fairly normal.

So $1,500 is about 35% of $4,300, which is about $52k/year.

And if you're splitting that payment, it's even better. I wouldn't be surprised if a decent number of young couples without kids live in some of these 1BR apartments.

Yes I understand people can afford them. That didn't seem like "well-paid" to me. I was thinking what some of my friends working for Phillips in bville would fall in that cat. More like 75.

Median Income in OKC is $45,339. 150% would be $68k.

I'd say someone under-30 making $65k+ in this market is making good money.

Well paid is far more subjective. If you have your doctorate by 28 and you're working 60 hours a week to bring home $60k/year, you're not well paid, even if you are making good money.

Likewise, if you didn't even attend college, and you're making $50,000 @ 20, you are well-paid.

OK, before this took a strange direction, my point was that I've spoken to actual people in the Plaza District about Lift, without complaining about their rents, and have heard people expressly say they won't pay those rents to live there.

Perhaps young professionals and trust fund kids will enjoy them, and talk about the awesomely normal $1,500 a month rent they are paying for a 700-foot one bedroom. Other people, like artists, musicians and people who make and sell beaded jewelry and Okie shirts will probably continue to live in nabes like the Plaza. Not really a provocative statement.

Trust fund kids don't pay rent brah. They just buy a house.

OK, before this took a strange direction, my point was that I've spoken to actual people in the Plaza District about Lift, without complaining about their rents, and have heard people expressly say they won't pay those rents to live there.

Perhaps young professionals and trust fund kids will enjoy them, and talk about the awesomely normal $1,500 a month rent they are paying for a 700-foot one bedroom. Other people, like artists, musicians and people who make and sell beaded jewelry and Okie shirts will probably continue to live in nabes like the Plaza. Not really a provocative statement.

Man you are seeming really bent out of shape lately all over this site, and being very passive aggressive.

That being said, those "young professionals and trust fund kids" are the ones buying those Okie shrits, seeing those artists perform, etc.

Also, I have never heard anyone boast about how much rent they pay, its 100% the opposite. So I don't know why you would even make that statement.

We are very, very far from topic.

Let's please get back to discussing LIFT. Thanks.

Rent = $840+
Deposit = $250
Beds - Studio
Baths - 1
Sq Ft = 368

That is straight from the website. So the lowest rent is $840 a month for under 400 sqft.

Link (http://www.liftokc.com/oklahoma-city/lift/floorplans/slide-407389/is-premium-view/1/)

Rent = $840+
Deposit = $250
Beds - Studio
Baths - 1
Sq Ft = 368

That is straight from the website. So the lowest rent is $840 a month for under 400 sqft.

Link (http://www.liftokc.com/oklahoma-city/lift/floorplans/slide-407389/is-premium-view/1/)

Expensive, but not unrealistic. People who live somewhere like LIFT generally know they are going to be paying much more per square foot than they would for a place in the burbs. Many millennials, especially those who are single don't need a huge place. People live there to be close to the amenities and be a part of the urban community.

Which to me seems pretty reasonable to live in the hottest district in OKC. Similar to what I was paying at 430 lofts for a studio.

^

In a brand new, very nice complex with covered parking and tons of amenities.

I've said this many times but if you want to pay less there are plenty of older places on Craigslist. The idea you can expect some beautiful, new, spacious apartment in a great location for less than $1,000... Well, people need to release that fantasy. Things are only going up from here.



BTW, I was talking with someone from ULI last weekend and he mentioned the general rule of thumb that most newer, sprawl cities (like OKC, Dallas, etc.) should expect to have about 2% of their population living downtown.

Doing the math, that means OKC could easily support about 25,000. If you consult our Downtown Housing Summary, you'll see there are less than 5,000 units built, under construction or with solid plans. Multiply that by 1.5 residents per unit and you get to 7,500.

So, even after everything now planned is built and occupied, there will be the need and demand for more than 2 X what is already complete.

And developers in OKC know this and most of them are planning to build lots more, despite what they may say publicly. There are absolutely tons of residential projects in the pipeline and I only see that activity increasing.

And they will all be quickly absorbed.

At first $1,000 might sound like a lot, but I got to thinking back and realized my last apartment, 20 years ago--at 122nd and Penn mind you--was a one bedroom. It cost over $500 a month!

Which to me seems pretty reasonable to live in the hottest district in OKC. Similar to what I was paying at 430 lofts for a studio.

I agree.

When I moved to my current place from the burbs, I had to downsize significantly. I went from a one bedroom to a studio and the appliances are not new. However, it was worth it to be a part of the urban community and all it offers vs feeling like a prisoner in the burbs.

The urban rental market is different than the suburban market and the prices reflect that.

At first $1,000 might sound like a lot, but I got to thinking back and realized my last apartment, 20 years ago--at 122nd and Penn mind you--was a one bedroom. It cost over $500 a month!

Adjusted just for inflation, $500 in 1995 is $780 today.

And that was at 122nd & Penn and in the depths of OKC's pit of despair. Let alone downtown with 200 bars and restaurants within 1.5 miles, and tons of other cool things to do at your doorstep.

BTW, I was talking with someone from ULI last weekend and he mentioned the general rule of thumb that most newer, sprawl cities (like OKC, Dallas, etc.) should expect to have about 2% of their population living downtown.

Doing the math, that means OKC could easily support about 25,000. If you consult our Downtown Housing Summary, you'll see there are less than 5,000 units built, under construction or with solid plans. Multiply that by 1.5 residents per unit and you get to 7,500.

So, even after everything now planned is built and occupied, there will be the need and demand for more than 2 X what is already complete.

And developers in OKC know this and most of them are planning to build lots more, despite what they may say publicly. There are absolutely tons of residential projects in the pipeline and I only see that activity increasing.

And they will all be quickly absorbed.

Some people are saying we're close to being overbuilt though...

^

Part of that comes from developers who publicly proclaim worry while privately are planning a bunch of new projects.

I happen to know that Mosaic is pretty much leased now and that the pre-leasing at the Metropolitan and LIFT is very strong. Heck, Milhaus (LIFT) just announced L2 right across the street and moved someone here full-time to develop more projects, so that speaks volumes.

Some people are saying we're close to being overbuilt though...

I believe those who say that severely underestimate the market. They also don't take into account that OKC started from much farther behind in terms of total downtown units than most other cities, meaning more units can be built and quickly absorbed than in a city that already had a strong, populated urban core.

Downtown is all about critical mass, and that has clearly been reached in OKC.

It's a situation where the more you build, the more demand there is because of the concentrated nature of the setting. Completely opposite of the suburbs, where absorption can be predicted quite easily and if more housing is built than the historic absorption patterns, then everyone suffers.

People in OKC only know the suburban model; this is all new and unchartered territory for most.


There is also this somewhat defeatist attitude that comes from people due to the dark days of the 90's and the fear that comes from that. It's an overly simplistic and paranoid view that can easily be swept aside with rational thought and data.

Adjusted just for inflation, $500 in 1995 is $780 today.

And that was at 122nd & Penn and in the depths of OKC's pit of despair. Let alone downtown with 200 bars and restaurants within 1.5 miles, and tons of other cool things to do at your doorstep.

Yes, my point exactly! The complex was just barely holding its own. Nothing was new in my unit (and I suspect all the others as well). There wasn't anything attractive to me about that area at that time, unlike what's happening in the greater downtown area now. If downtown had been this vibrant back then, I might've held off on buying my first house just to be where the action is.

Rent = $840+
Deposit = $250
Beds - Studio
Baths - 1
Sq Ft = 368

That is straight from the website. So the lowest rent is $840 a month for under 400 sqft.

Link (http://www.liftokc.com/oklahoma-city/lift/floorplans/slide-407389/is-premium-view/1/)

I pay $857.50 a month for a studio (496 sq ft) in a suburb of Portland. I would rather live in downtown OKC than a suburb of Portland, all things being equal.