I hope that developers continue to focus on developing every lot north of 9th before approaching south Midtown [4th/Robinson/9th/Walker box] I feel like this is potentially the most important area of downtown if we do the most horrible thing we could do and put an arena on the Cox site.

I would love to see this area consist of nothing short of 8 stories and nothing north of 14 stories, and have a major development similar to Berlin's KaDeWe (http://www.kadewe.de/en/the_kadewe/history), and make it mostly approachable by foot only (maybe have one level of underground parking, mainly for employees)

But I think we're at least 5 to 10 years away from being able to support a district with that kind of volume of square footage that's not predominantly office space.

Yeah, I wasn't advocating skyscrapers, though I would be happy to see some mid- to high-rise housing as land gets tighter. What I think will be exciting to see is even more creative approaches to infill, non traditional lots, elimination of surface parking. And yes, even some housing that exceeds our now-best height of FIVE stories.

Like - a lot.

I am just saying, I love that we have a ton of 300+ unit projects and that they all spread out and cover ground area. We have so much ground area to be covered. Edge, Metropolitan, Steel Yard, this, Legacy (design aside), Level, etc are all exactly what we need in this city. The debate over where to site a new tower is so absurd bc we still have such a pockmarked downtown region AND we now gotta work on the linkages between CBD and surrounding districts.

Why can both issues not be discussed at once? Are we only allowed to discuss how to fill in the downtown area, but not where new class A office space might locate? I am not sure I understand the concern.

The question was "what made you choose this site?" It's a standard question I ask. I will note Gary's response was more about talking up Midtown rather than dismissing another district. And his response was not unlike responses given by other developers. When I broke the story about The Metropolitan in July, John Gilbert with the Bomasada Group made a comment similar to what Gary said, except it was promoting the east side of downtown as the only good spot left.
To quote:
Gilbert, who presented the project Thursday to the Downtown Design Review Committee, said the site for The Metropolitan, NE 6 and Oklahoma Avenue, is the last best remaining site downtown for new housing.

The property is immediately east of Ninth Street, home to a popular mix of restaurants and shops. The southeast corner of the property is home to a pocket park built by the Automobile Alley Association.

"We like this site better," Gilbert said. "We are within walking distance of Bricktown, Deep Deuce, Automobile Alley and MidTown. We have great access to I-235 and 10th Street. We really have great access to everywhere in the city."


Not sure I remember the folks who participate in this website making a fuss over that. But you guys are gonna do what you're gonna do....

There probably wasn't as much fuss over it because it wasn't inaccurate. The Metropolitan will have great access to all of these things. Suggesting that MidTown is the place to go if you want more than an apartment and restaurants just isn't accurate at this point. Anywhere in DD right now has a better access to a larger variety of services than this development will. And the Metropolitan will probably be even better right when it opens in terms of access. I don't think anyone was saying MidTown isn't good, it just basically offers only the two things mentioned in the relevant quote (apartments and restaurants) while other areas currently offer better access to more. I don't think the "fuss" was as much about MidTown > DD or vice versa, but about the way other districts were inaccurately characterized, or maybe even the way MidTown was presented.

Honestly, if Midtown remains largely just apartments and restaurants, I'd be fine with that. I think that certainly is the way to create the liveliest district downtown. I think DD, with its mix of owner occupied and leasing will probably always be a little more laid back, with grocery and restaurant corners, instead of whole blocks of retail and bars.

Actually The Edge and this development appeal to me right now because they are a little bit removed from the hustle and bustle...but that won't last long, which is appealing for different reasons.

Actually The Edge and this development appeal to me right now because they are a little bit removed from the hustle and bustle...but that won't last long, which is appealing for different reasons.

That's interesting. It always seems amazingly quiet when I am at the brownstones or walking through DD (except for the construction). Feels like MT is going towards more of a true mixed use / bar hopping type district.

No, I agree DD is quiet. I was just meaning being away from the traffic of Walnut and other streets, the bustle of Bricktown, the arena and such. Midtown RIGHT NOW is much more quiet and laid back, in general, than this side of downtown. That said, I agree that Midtown is not going to stay that way. That is why I said "but that won't last long, which is appealing for different reasons."

okctalk getting some love from Milhaus on their facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/milhausdevelopment/posts/684513058226225

A couple more detailed renderings:



http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/urban-development-buildings/5054d1384535828-10th-shartel-apartments-10thshartel2.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/urban-development-buildings/5055d1384535829-10th-shartel-apartments-10thshartel3.jpg

That is massive!

That is massive!

At 327 units it will be significantly larger than the Edge at 252 or Level at 222.

The Metropolitan will be slightly bigger yet at 330 units.

Downtown Housing Summary - OKCTalk (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=Downtown%20Housing%20Summary&page=2#post707027)

I had no idea how massive complex this complex is going to be. That is a huge development.

When we first heard about the Edge, who thought to themselves, a bigger one is on the way? Perhaps more surprising, who would have thought that if there were to be a bigger one, that it would be to the WEST?

When we first heard about the Edge, who thought to themselves, a bigger one is on the way? Perhaps more surprising, who would have thought that if there were to be a bigger one, that it would be to the WEST?

The Metropolitan being slightly bigger and, in particular, its location surprises me too. That's the one I can't wait for because it's in a spot that's seen by a majority driving down 235.

Agreed, that was also quite surprising.

I had no idea how massive complex this complex is going to be. That is a huge development.

Same. The old renderings don't even hint at the same scale that you get from the new perspectives. The article talked about how the layout was something unique to our urban residential development and I couldn't quite appreciate that then.

Wow! That's massive

Wow! That's massive

I was mightily tempted to respond to this with a silly, puerile "That's what she said" joke, but fortunately maturity won out and I restrained the urge. I'm so proud of myself! :)

Wow, three courtyards no less...

What is the Quiet Courtyard? Is this where people read books, practice yoga, and rehearse their mime routines? Do they hire a couple of librarians to go around and say "Shhhhh" to people who talk too loudly?
:)

Wow, three courtyards no less...

What is the Quiet Courtyard? Is this where people read books, practice yoga, and rehearse their mime routines? Do they hire a couple of librarians to go around and say "Shhhhh" to people who talk too loudly?
:)


wrY0xGeh7kI

Check out the very generous pedestrian space along 10th and along Shartel. Pavers?

And it's particularly large right at the corner:

http://dl.dropbox.com/s/dn4ahkxhhdfuf8u/10th_Shartel_Corner.jpg

(zoomed in image from one of the renderings)

Maybe a first floor cafe/restaurant with outdoor tables/seating?

Wow, this is my first time looking at this thread. Is this actually been approved and will be built as shown here? It's hard to believe from that rendering that this is actually going to be built in OKC. Really exciting stuff being announced for Midtown. While right now I am somewhat underwhelmed by the current state of Midtown, as long as the economy holds up that situation should be very different in the latter half of the decade.

It occurs to me that now that we have all this new residential popping up along Shartel (and Francis, but that's just one block over) that it would be *GREAT* if the streetcar were to go just a little bit further west in the upper Midtown loop so that it could service all these new developments.

http://dl.dropbox.com/s/1je5ehjpc41qyh5/streetcar_route_extension.jpg

In other words, drop down from 11th to 10th via Shartel instead of Dewey.

I know, I know... it's a little late in the discussion for this. Still, it would be awesome for the route to go just a few blocks farther west and pick up all the new action.

This is going to be a great project! Any word on what they are going to do on floor-plans? Mostly one and two bedrooms? I hope they design-out a bit and maybe throw in some studios, 3 and 4 bedroom units. Any indication on what the apartments will start at? Exciting times for living in the city core.

It occurs to me that now that we have all this new residential popping up along Shartel (and Francis, but that's just one block over) that it would be *GREAT* if the streetcar were to go just a little bit further west in the upper Midtown loop so that it could service all these new developments.

In other words, drop down from 11th to 10th via Shartel instead of Dewey.

I know, I know... it's a little late in the discussion for this. Still, it would be awesome for the route to go just a few blocks farther west and pick up all the new action.

These developments are a whole two blocks away. They'll be okay. Think about The Metropolitan...if only they could just scootch the streetcar up a few more blocks... Oh well, at least Phase II expansion is going to take it down 4th and that development will be two blocks away. Can't win everywhere.

It occurs to me that now that we have all this new residential popping up along Shartel (and Francis, but that's just one block over) that it would be *GREAT* if the streetcar were to go just a little bit further west in the upper Midtown loop so that it could service all these new developments.

In other words, drop down from 11th to 10th via Shartel instead of Dewey.

I know, I know... it's a little late in the discussion for this. Still, it would be awesome for the route to go just a few blocks farther west and pick up all the new action.

The streetcar WiLL serve this area: it will only be a block or two away.

The streetcar route is fine. All of these large developments are on the exterior of the streetcar route by 1-3 blocks.

Steelyard: 0-2 blocks (one corner abuts the route directly)
This project: 2 blocks
Metropolitan: 2 blocks
Maywood Apartments I: 2 blocks
Maywood Apartments II: 3 blocks
1201 Francis: 3 blocks

Wait until the rails are in the ground and developments such as these pop up directly on the interior or exterior of the route.

The City should contact all these developers and see if they are willing to pay for route extensions to their properties.

Coming south on Shartel and going east on 10th would be pretty expensive with the roundabout.

And to be sure, there is absolutely zero need for an extension…If we can't be bothered to walk 2 to 5 blocks to get to mass transit then we may as well give up now.

I want to answer the couple of posters who replied to my suggestion.

I'm not saying that the current planned route is bad. It's not. It's perfectly fine.

I'm not saying that these new developments on or near Shartel are being left out in the cold and won't have streetcar access. Obviously they will, and the residents can definitely walk a block or two to get to a stop.

What I am saying is that the route would be EVEN BETTER if it were to loop just a few hundred yards further west. It's pretty clear now that all kinds of residential development is happening out there which will house a lot of people. Having the streetcar swing essentially right along the front door (if you will) would be a great convenience and increase the line's usefulness. We (meaning the route planners) didn't know about all these new development when the path was planned. Had they known, it seems likely that they would have stretched the loop a little further west to grab this new area of activity.

But I realize this is a long shot, because it's so late in the game. And I won't be all broken up about it if it doesn't happen -- likely it won't. I just think it would be a better route if this relatively simple extension were included.

I keep a running map of construction projects downtown. (Usually just new build, it's too hard to keep track of the smaller renovations on a map)

Red: Under construction or about to be very soon
Pink: Active proposal
Blue: Rumored possibility of development
Green Line: Approved Streetcar Phase I route

http://gyazo.com/7a62f44e730842f9a4a3168d2a2b3721.png

It's interesting to note that the streetcar route and pretty much most of the new developments are in series with each other. Again, just wait until the rails are in the ground, and this map will be very congested with red and pink squares.

The City should contact all these developers and see if they are willing to pay for route extensions to their properties.

Highly (make that *extremely*) unlikely that they would be willing to do this. No other property owners or businesses are ponying up funds for access.

Highly (make that *extremely*) unlikely that they would be willing to do this. No other property owners or businesses are ponying up funds for access.

Common practice in other cities.

If I was developing one of these complexes, I'd consider the expense. You would make it back in increased rents and improved property value.

Common practice in other cities.

If I was developing one of these complexes, I'd consider the expense. You would make it back in increased rents and improved property value.

Over how long? That would cost at least $5,000,000 wouldn't it? Or $15,291 per unit. To make that money back in 5 years, you'd have to charge $250 more per month in rent. Not that that's crazy by any means, but it may be enough of a difference to swing people's decisions to stay at the Edge and walk 2 blocks to get to the street car.

Now, I think the utility of having a stop on your property is far higher for the retail portions. If that's going to be significant in this development, then it may be worth it and would be a strong selling point for bringing in the best available tenants. By significant, I mean, the street-level portion of the building that fronts Shartel and 10th would need to be almost entirely non-residential space.

It's not a bad idea, but they need to be able to realistically make their money back in 5 years for it to be worth it to them, even if it's worth more in the long run. $5MM can be a good start to another development.

^
You are assuming only one property owner paying for those extra two blocks, where in fact in the case of this property (10th & Shartel) there would be several MidtownR properties within a block (including 1201 N Francis), the Physicians & Surgeons Building, future development in the parking lot of the same, gets the Catholic Charities building within two blocks, it would access more of the St. Anthony campus, several smaller properties, etc.

^
You are assuming only one property owner paying for those extra two blocks, where in fact in the case of this property (10th & Shartel) there would be several MidtownR properties within a block (including 1201 N Francis), the Physicians & Surgeons Building, future development in the parking lot of the same, gets the Catholic Charities building within two blocks, it would access more of the St. Anthony campus, several smaller properties, etc.

Fair point.

The people developing these properties are aware of the approved streetcar route. These announcements were made after the vote. It's fair to assume they believe their developments are close enough to the route to benefit from it.

I agree, SG. While it might be nice of them to want to contribute to an extension, I think they are totally satisfied with things as they are in making their current investment and don't see that as necessary to success.

The proposed route surely came out well after the property was acquired and planning begun.

And while, yes, they're close enough to benefit, they could benefit likely exponentially more (again, especially in the retail aspect), if the route stops right on their front door.

That being said…I'd rather it be handled in a future extension than on this route. The current route is already a decently long ride.

With the history of St. Anthony's and their investment in the surrounding neighborhood, perhaps they could be convinced of a light rail connection to downtown and participation in paying for an extension? They are only a block away at 10th.

Well, we're in a lull at the moment waiting for more details/updates on this project.

I did come across a nice video put out by Milhaus on a current project called Artistry (apartments being built in the Arts District of Indianapolis).

Artistry Intro Bumper on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/65813369)

Here's some screenshots:

http://dl.dropbox.com/s/086ynsfsjb214gx/artistry_1.jpg

http://dl.dropbox.com/s/34q6ikizzyeelgc/artistry_2.jpg

http://dl.dropbox.com/s/v651lolbqebpx3e/artistry_3.jpg

http://dl.dropbox.com/s/la5p14g06qwtbu6/artistry_4.jpg

http://dl.dropbox.com/s/hlvb9kzwiulajhs/artistry_5.jpg

http://dl.dropbox.com/s/w62d89t8ewatbh9/artistry_6.jpg


Similar in size/scale to this project (10th & Shartel) and The Edge.

More info at ArtistryIndy.com. Can't wait for Milhaus to put up a similar website up for 10th & Shartel (assuming that they do).

I like their concept of balconies. They're consistent so we can predict what we'll get.

Downtown Indy is obviously awesome, but it's weird how small the skyline's visible massing from the south is. You sorta drive through on 70 wondering, "Is this it?"

Spartan, have to agree that skyline is less than awe inspiring.

Spartan, have to agree that skyline is less than awe inspiring.

Looks the same way from I70 as well. The impressive part was that the entire DT was pretty filled in and there wasn't any "holes" anywhere, but the size isn't overwhelming by any means. Size isn't everything though (I'm talking about buildings here!). Sometimes I wish people would acknowledge that a little more often.

Looks the same way from I70 as well. The impressive part was that the entire DT was pretty filled in and there wasn't any "holes" anywhere, but the size isn't overwhelming by any means. Size isn't everything though (I'm talking about buildings here!). Sometimes I wish people would acknowledge that a little more often.

I agree. Indianapolis and San Antonio are similar in that regard. They both have rather lackluster skylines but they have excellent urban bones. DC has no skyline for crying out loud yet its more urban than about any other American city with the exception of New York, Boston, and Chicago.

Anyways, love this development. This is definitely a "hard to believe this is OKC" type of development. The standard is definitely increasing.

TIF money approved for three downtown Oklahoma City construction projects | News OK (http://newsok.com/tif-money-approved-for-three-downtown-oklahoma-city-construction-projects/article/3915574)


The city council also approved $3 million in tax increment financing to Indianapolis-based Milhaus Development, which is planning to build a 327-unit apartment complex at NW 10 and Shartel in Midtown.

This project was just approved by the Downtown Design Review Committee, with a few minor items continued to the February meeting, pending demolition permit and a variance from the Board of Adjustment on a setback issue (which the committee was fine with; just outside their authority).

What were the items?

1 & 2 were approved. 3, 4, & 5 were continued.

There was some concern and discussion about the amount of garage facing 11th street.

I'm not 100% sure if Jeff is the one that runs the Oklahoma City Streetcar page on Facebook, but on it they said that the developers credited the streetcar route with being a prime motivator behind the decision to go ahead with this project.

I will also note that this project was already modified as a direct result of the 1201 N. Francis Apartments MidtownR project. The garage was moved further east and the row of apts that were just east of the garage were moved to the west side along Francis all the way to the 11th and Francis corner

I will also say. That 11th is a good street for the garage in that it doesn't go through to classen and likely never will

Hopefully a future project on the physians building parking lot will use 11th for car access as well

I'm not 100% sure if Jeff is the one that runs the Oklahoma City Streetcar page on Facebook, but on it they said that the developers credited the streetcar route with being a prime motivator behind the decision to go ahead with this project.
It would not surprise me one bit. This project is only a 2 block walk away from Bricktown, CBD, Auto-Alley, etc. with the streetcar.

Just wait till the track are in the ground, we will see quite a few more developments I am sure!

I will also note that this project was already modified as a direct result of the 1201 N. Francis Apartments MidtownR project. The garage was moved further east and the row of apts that were just east of the garage were moved to the west side along Francis all the way to the 11th and Francis corner

Sounds like some good changes, will make Francis a quiet urban street, deflecting car traffic onto 11th.

1 & 2 were approved. 3, 4, & 5 were continued.

There was some concern and discussion about the amount of garage facing 11th street.

What were items 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5?

1. Main Building (approved)
Construct a five-story mixed-use residential, retail structure, and parking
structure to include;
a) four levels accommodating 327 residential units clad in fiber cement
panels, architectural metal panels, and brick;
b) 8,000 sq ft amenities space at street level with aluminum storefront and
composite metal panel canopy;
c) 4,762 to 5,500 sq ft of retail lease space within the first level on southeast
corner of structure with aluminum storefront glazing and composite metal
panel canopy;
d) integrated four-level concrete parking garage for 445 spaces on the north
elevation screened by perforated metal panels on the north façade;

2. Sidewalks (approved)
a) install sidewalks along frontages and within site;

3. Landscaping/Site Improvements (continued)
a) install landscaping and irrigation along street frontages and within site;

4. Screening/Fencing (continued)
a) install fencing and gates at entry points to interior spaces;

5. Signage (continued)
a) install projecting sign at south elevation and attached sign above canopy
at retail lease space.

What were items 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5?
http://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/view.aspx?cabinet=published_meetings&fileid=2167295

Landscaping, Fencing, Signage

Pete if you get a chance can you post the new site plan thanks