I find it amusing how excited people are getting here over another big box strip center. Should we throw in a Kohl's and maybe a new JC Penney stand alone store. I bet everyone would be excited to see another Bath and Body works in this development. Really people, this isn't going to be an upscale retail center. It's going to be right in line with Memorial Square shopping center where PF Changs and Target are located. Yes, I agree that getting a Costco and Cabellas will be nice, but I can't say that I'm jumping for joy at landing this project.

I feel the same way when there is a new OnCue announced. Some people here get so worked up and excited for a gas station. However this is clearly different. You may not get excited but I can see how others would easily get excited. Cabelas, Costco, Top Golf, along with other new to OKC retailers...this is good for OKC and residents in many ways. Less people going out of state to spend money and increasing sales tax revenue for OKC, more and new entertainment options for residents and visitors, and its a development that will help turn the reality that OKC cant get these types of retailers which in turn might attract more. This will be a big win for OKC.

2 story Kohl's?


The 2 story building will be the Cabella's.

I feel the same way when there is a new OnCue announced. Some people here get so worked up and excited for a gas station. However this is clearly different. You may not get excited but I can see how others would easily get excited. Cabelas, Costco, Top Golf, along with other new to OKC retailers...this is good for OKC and residents in many ways. Less people going out of state to spend money and increasing sales tax revenue for OKC, more and new entertainment options for residents and visitors, and its a development that will help turn the reality that OKC cant get these types of retailers which in turn might attract more. This will be a big win for OKC.

Exactly. This development is different because of the retailers it's bringing to the mix. This isn't just another Wal-Mart shopping center. Costco and the like may not be upscale but it's still a big deal for OKC.

That is a crap load of parking spaces.

That is a crap load of parking spaces.I actually agree with you on this sort of thing for once and you would think the developers could get more money if they built parking garages and built buildings on the areas that were to be parking spaces and make money. . . right?

Or: More money generated in the burbs that might finally start to put a dent in the outrageous costs for the increasing infrastructure that would not be a continuing deficit if there were greater density.

You almost nailed it, amigo, and I was ready to pop a "Like" . . .
Unfortunately you done fergot t' define what type of "density" to which it was you was referring to.
Not all "greater density" is positive, doncha know.
Why . . . Jist axe the snail darters, spotted owls and California condors whose habitat will be altered by this thang.

'Course iffn there wuz a Cabela's . . .
Mebbe they could have sortuva preservation zoo thang a-goin' own.

All joking aside, check out what "They" did with "The Shop(pe?)s at/in The West End" up there in Minneapolis/St.Paul.
Very cool place to be. On vacation: Public Access, Giant Underground Parking Lot (on account of the winters up there) and, like, a brand new old-timey "Downtown" replete with extra-wide sidewalks.

Not to say that OKC (or the Sprawlbergs associated therewith) should be a "copycat" or nothin' . . . just sayin' . . .

Shee---it . . . Even a "seasoned" Rich Insurance OLD Guy who lives only a couple of miles from that "development" marvels today at what was done with a worthless, old, abandoned, warehouse district.

Exactly. This development is different because of the retailers it's bringing to the mix. This isn't just another Wal-Mart shopping center. Costco and the like may not be upscale but it's still a big deal for OKC.

No...the development is not different because of the retailers. Again, retailers are anchors of development, not the development itself. It actually *is* another Wal-Mart development, with Costco instead of Wal-Mart/Target.

That's exaggeration obviously: But what makes this development different are the promenade, Plaza, and Pond.

They just haven't planned nearly enough of those types of things.

No...the development is not different because of the retailers. Again, retailers are anchors of development, not the development itself. It actually *is* another Wal-Mart development, with Costco instead of Wal-Mart/Target.

That's exaggeration obviously: But what makes this development different are the promenade, Plaza, and Pond.

They just haven't planned nearly enough of those types of things.
Memorial Square, the center where PF Changs is located, has a courtyard in the middle of the restaurants. Does that make it a prime upscale center that's something to write home about?

Memorial Square, the center where PF Changs is located, has a courtyard in the middle of the restaurants. Does that make it a prime upscale center that's something to write home about?

No, but there's more than just a single courtyard in this development as well.

It is definitively better than anything else on Memorial right now...it's just that everything on Memorial is entirely unimaginative and not compelling. So that this scores at a 20% on that scale, still makes it much better than anything else off the Turnpike.

If they build it exactly as it is, there will still be a chance for them to eventually turn it into something that could be worthwhile. I'm not sure that anything else on Memorial could really be retrofitted very well at all. Just throw some garages in strategic places, more residential, and better pedestrian paths, and this could be a somewhat walkable development, with more of everything.

That they're not planning that *now* is beyond me. I'm sure it's more expensive, but surely not so much more expensive...especially the parking garages, and making things more pedestrian focused in certain areas (because roads are more expensive than sidewalks and grass)

Lamberts? Scheels? Another building could be a 2 story Kohls. American Home? Don Shula's Steakhouse? White Castle? VFI Outlet? Sutherland's or Home Depot Design Center? Stage? Sears Grand Central?

Memorial Square, the center where PF Changs is located, has a courtyard in the middle of the restaurants. Does that make it a prime upscale center that's something to write home about?

Memorial Square is one of the best retail developments in OKC. Upscale by the standards of other cities and upscale by OKC standards are two completely different things. It's going to take steps to get OKC retail up to the level most would like to see. This development, though would be ho-hum in Denver or in Charlotte, will blow it out of the park for OKC. Plus, if Costco, Crate and Barrel, Cabela's, etc do set up shop, and Von Maur and H&M are successful, it will signal to other retailers that OKC may be a market worth investing in without massive subsidies from Chesapeake. Subsequently, we will get better and better developments.

Traffic Flow . . . Drainage . . . Wildlife Protection . . . Buco di Beppo (even if they aren't "local") . . .
(it's that simple. go for it.)

Sorry. Forgot to add: No insipid Media Photo Ops involving fat guys in suits, ties, wingtip shoes; wearing hardhats and wielding shovels pretending to be breaking ground or "turning dirt" as may be the preferred "modern" phrase.

Nor gals in tasteful business attire with incongruous hardhats and those ugly-ass, yellow, "safety vests" neither.

Not even with a voiceover by one of the Local Ogles.

That sort of public goofiness simply underlines the vacuous stupidity of the concept and tends to discount the brilliant thought behind it. =)

A few pages late in the thread, but I don't get the hype for H&M. Cheap(ly made) clothes that fit skinny people. Yes they make XL, but nothing they have there fits anyone with an athletic build. I bought a sport coat there in Chicago 5 years ago and the buttons fell off (both of them) after two wears (yeah I know, who needs buttons on a casual sport coat?).

A few pages late in the thread, but I don't get the hype for H&M. Cheap(ly made) clothes that fit skinny people. Yes they make XL, but nothing they have there fits anyone with an athletic build. I bought a sport coat there in Chicago 5 years ago and the buttons fell off (both of them) after two wears (yeah I know, who needs buttons on a casual sport coat?).

I get what you're saying. Here's another way to look at it: H&M is an affordable, more fashion forward version of The Gap. Unlike The Gap, you actually do look good in the clothes when you get home. I personally really like H&M, and have for many years, but keep in mind that the H&M stores I've visited were in places like Soho and Madrid. Perhaps the Dallas version sucks donkey balls, kinda like how Macy's in OKC blows compared to the one in Herald Square. If so, I can see why you're so unenthused.

The only H&M's in the surrounding areas are in Dallas, KC and Denver. So, all of Oklahoma, southern KS, most of AR and west TX would come to OKC to shop at H&M. I am not a huge fan of H&M either, but I understand that it is wildly popular for the youth of today (making myself sound like an old fart) and for hipsters. Also, people who want to get seemingly the same clothing at Banana Republic/Gap/Old Navy can get it for half the cost. The quality will not be as good, but that is their choice.

H&M = good quality + current fashion + affordable prices. Does well world wide. Should be a hit here. My wife and I have shopped them worldwide for years and have found them very popular all over.

Memorial Square is one of the best retail developments in OKC. Upscale by the standards of other cities and upscale by OKC standards are two completely different things. It's going to take steps to get OKC retail up to the level most would like to see. This development, though would be ho-hum in Denver or in Charlotte, will blow it out of the park for OKC. Plus, if Costco, Crate and Barrel, Cabela's, etc do set up shop, and Von Maur and H&M are successful, it will signal to other retailers that OKC may be a market worth investing in without massive subsidies from Chesapeake. Subsequently, we will get better and better developments.

Memorial Square.....one of the best retail developments in OKC? Really? Wow! I do agree with your statement about upscale by other cities standards vs upscale by OKC standards. If we expect to be a big league city like Denver and Charlotte than we need to start demanding more standards from these types of developments. Memorial Square isn't any different from any other retail strip center. There's nothing upscale about it. I mean, it has a few restaurants and the remainder is big box stores........it has a Target, Marshall's, David's Bridal, PF Changs, Bravo, Red Robin, DSW. Not any different from Rockwell Plaza, Quail Springs Marketplace, or UNP in Norman.

Memorial Square.....the best retail deelopment in OKC? Really? Wow! I do agree with your statement about upscale by other cities standards. If we expect to be a big league city like Denver and Charlotte than we need to start demanding more standards from these types of developments. Memorial Square isn't any different from any other retail strip center. I mean, it has a few restaurants and the remainder is big box stores. Not any different from Rockwell Plaza or UNP in Norman.

I do agree with you. There needs to be a higher standard in OKC if this is to ever be a true big league city. However, there is a huge gulf between the standard in OKC (Belle Isle, Memorial Square) and the standard in a place like Charlotte (Shoppes at Southpark, Ballantyne Village). It's going to take steps to get OKC there as I doubt any developer will want to spend the extra costs to build a development that far above and beyond the standard. This new development looks like, unless scaled down, will be like Sycamore Commons in Charlotte. That development has Costco along with several other big box stores and some smaller boutique stores and restaurants. It's a rather ho-hum development by Charlotte standards but if you dropped it in OKC it would be the best thing here.

I'd love to see something like Southlake Town Center or La Centerra in Katy built here.

I get what you're saying. Here's another way to look at it: H&M is an affordable, more fashion forward version of The Gap. Unlike The Gap, you actually do look good in the clothes when you get home. I personally really like H&M, and have for many years, but keep in mind that the H&M stores I've visited were in places like Soho and Madrid. Perhaps the Dallas version sucks donkey balls, kinda like how Macy's in OKC blows compared to the one in Herald Square. If so, I can see why you're so unenthused.

I went to the one on Michigan Ave in Chicago and I've been in the one in Grapevine Mills. Yes, that is too very opposite ends of the spectrum.

Drove by there yesterday and it looks like they are clearing small pad sites on the SW (Mem. & Western) corner south of the turnpike. What's the first that is going to be built?

Drove by there yesterday and it looks like they are clearing small pad sites on the SW (Mem. & Western) corner south of the turnpike. What's the first that is going to be built?
Taco Bell an Whataburger. lol!

Drove by there yesterday and it looks like they are clearing small pad sites on the SW (Mem. & Western) corner south of the turnpike. What's the first that is going to be built?

From the map on the front page, it looks like the Healthplex is going to be built there.

Savers?

About Main Event from Molly Fleming at the Journal Record.


OKLAHOMA CITY – Another entertainment venue has entered the game in the northwest corridor of the city, filing an application to serve liquor.

Main Event Entertainment has submitted an application for an Alcoholic Beverage Consumption Level 2 permit, which is scheduled to be reviewed by the Planning Commission on Thursday. An ABC-2 permit would allow Main Event to serve beer, wine, and mixed beverages, according to the application.

Main Event Entertainment Marketing Director Amy Johnson said the Oklahoma City Main Event is scheduled to open in fall 2014. The building will measure 58,018 square feet and sit on 5.62 acres of land. It will be at the corner of W. Memorial Road and Pawnee Drive, making it visible from the John Kilpatrick Turnpike.

She said the company has been considering the city for the last two-and-a-half years.

“We actually had a site there about four-and-a-half years ago and then we decided to pass on it at that time,” Johnson said. “Then, another opportunity presented itself recently. We just thought it was a great opportunity and a great market to expand Main Event.”

The company filed a building permit a week ago with the city. It will break ground within the next 60 to 90 days, Johnson said, pending city approval of submitted permits.



Bowling is the anchor entertainment option, with each location having between 26 to 34 lanes. Johnson said the number of lanes at the Oklahoma City location has yet to be determined.

Each center employs 150 people.

Drove by today. They have done a tremendous amount of tree clearing on the entire site.

4840

They are getting started with the healthplex on the corner.

The rest of the development still needs to go through architecture and engineering, and my understanding is that have hired a big Dallas firm to fast-track that process so they can at least move forward with Costco and some of the other anchor tenants.

2 to 3 months...alright! I wonder how long it'll be before it's technically open (referring to Main Event).

2 to 3 months...alright! I wonder how long it'll be before it's technically open (referring to Main Event).

Article said Fall 2014.

Thanks Pete. Guess I overlooked that detail!

According to the Tulsa World, Oklahoma's first Costco will be in Tulsa...

Story here: Costco looking for Tulsa location - Retail - Latest (http://m.tulsaworld.com/business/retail/costco-looking-for-tulsa-location/article_7676a9de-3ce1-11e3-b8ea-0019bb30f31a.html?mode=jqm)

Tulsa is done son, they are beneath us and a whim in our shadow.

I guess there's still a heart beating up there.

According to the Tulsa World, Oklahoma's first Costco will be in Tulsa...

The article doesn't say that -- just that they are looking.

According to the Tulsa World, Oklahoma's first Costco will be in Tulsa...

This has long been rumored and it honestly I would be surprised if they didn't end up in Tulsa first. OKC should come soon after though. I will be surprised if they open in Tulsa only and skip over OKC.

The article doesn't say that -- just that they are looking.

Yeah, I jumped the gun a little in saying that. Steve's tweet said that, but the article didn't.

This has long been rumored and it honestly I would be surprised if they didn't end up in Tulsa first. OKC should come soon after though. I will be surprised if they open in Tulsa only and skip over OKC.

Ever the optimist.

This has long been rumored and it honestly I would be surprised if they didn't end up in Tulsa first. OKC should come soon after though. I will be surprised if they open in Tulsa only and skip over OKC.

Ever the optimist.

Isn't that the truth? Bchris, you really need to start thinking sunny-side up, half is glass full, see the greys and not just the black & whites, you really seem to have this very real fear that things never work out the way you want them to - and it shows in your posts. Just food for thought really. You're never mean, just always feeling like things won't work out.

According to the Tulsa World, Oklahoma's first Costco will be in Tulsa...

It's possible but the article actually says the first Tulsa location, not the first Oklahoma location.

Ever the optimist.


Isn't that the truth? Bchris, you really need to start thinking sunny-side up, half is glass full, see the greys and not just the black & whites, you really seem to have this very real fear that things never work out the way you want them to - and it shows in your posts. Just food for thought really. You're never mean, just always feeling like things won't work out.

???

Sunny-side up is OKC getting a Costco before Tulsa?

Is it pile on bchris day?

BTW, I'm hearing in the construction world that the Tulsa Costco could indeed come first but that the OKC deal is still very much on.

???

Sunny-side up is OKC getting a Costco before Tulsa?

Is it pile on bchris day?

Not meant to be a "pile-on" at all. It's more than this post. It was to be more encouraging than anything.

BTW, I'm hearing in the construction world that the Tulsa Costco could indeed come first but that the OKC deal is still very much on.

Why does that not surprise me.

Do we really care that much about Costco? I'm more excited about retail on AA than a big box discount store. Let Tulsa be first. We aren't going to be able to buy wine and spirits there anyway.

Do we really care that much about Costco? I'm more excited about retail on AA than a big box discount store. Let Tulsa be first. We aren't going to be able to buy wine and spirits there anyway.

It's somewhat disheartening though that despite OKC being larger and growing much faster, national retailers still see Tulsa as the better city to do business in. It isn't just Costco, its most retailers. It will be great when one day we see a major sought after retailer open in OKC first rather than Tulsa.

Do we really care that much about Costco? I'm more excited about retail on AA than a big box discount store. Let Tulsa be first. We aren't going to be able to buy wine and spirits there anyway.

Betts, not everyone lives downtown like you, so yes...

It's somewhat disheartening though that despite OKC being larger and growing much faster, national retailers still see Tulsa as the better city to do business in. It isn't just Costco, its most retailers. It will be great when one day we see a major sought after retailer open in OKC first rather than Tulsa.

This is a myth that all of us here need to stop perpetuating.

If Costco opens in Tulsa first, it will only be because of the sites they've chosen, in that the Tulsa location is more ready to go. The one in OKC is part of a much bigger development that requires extensive engineering before they can move forward.

There are a few examples of retailers coming to Tulsa first (Saks, Restoration Hardware, Anthropologie, Whole Foods) but in two of those situations (WF and Saks) there were very unusual circumstances. And even with Anthropologie, the OKC store is larger and does much better business (I know this from people that work for the company).

OKC has been first on several fronts: Von Maur, Sunflower/Sprouts, Main Event, first NEW Whole Foods, Golfsmith, etc. And a bunch more that are likely to open here first like Cabela's, H&M, TopGolf, Crate & Barrel, etc.


We really need to compile a specific list because this constant mantra of "every retailer goes to Tulsa first" is simply untrue.

It's not a myth everyone perpetuates...it's one person.

It's somewhat disheartening though that despite OKC being larger and growing much faster, national retailers still see Tulsa as the better city to do business in. It isn't just Costco, its most retailers. It will be great when one day we see a major sought after retailer open in OKC first rather than Tulsa.

Retailers are just not very sophisticated when it comes to math. Our average income is low, lower than Tulsa, and that's all they see. They don't bother with cost of living and disposable income analyses. But, as I've said, I care more about local businesses than big chains so I don't care that much. I'd like a restoration hardware because no one else really carries anything like they do, and then I'd be good. It is kind of weird we don't have an Urban Outfitters though, since Anthropologie is doing so well here. Maybe they're waiting for Broadway to fill in a bit more. But Plenty is one of the best new businesses I've seen anywhere in any city, so more stores that creative would be even better than a UO.

The list of local, cool, creative retailers is getting to be pretty long...

And the same can be said for the restaurant scene.


It seems all the locals are flourishing in the urban core, while the chains are focusing on Memorial Road / Moore / Edmond, etc.

Retailers are just not very sophisticated when it comes to math. Our average income is low, lower than Tulsa, and that's all they see. They don't bother with cost of living and disposable income analyses. But, as I've said, I care more about local businesses than big chains so I don't care that much. I'd like a restoration hardware because no one else really carries anything like they do, and then I'd be good. It is kind of weird we don't have an Urban Outfitters though, since Anthropologie is doing so well here. Maybe they're waiting for Broadway to fill in a bit more. But Plenty is one of the best new businesses I've seen anywhere in any city, so more stores that creative would be even better than a UO.

Betts, I'm fairly sure our per capita income is a bit higher, we just lack the concentrations of income in key corridors that Tulsa has.

It seems all the locals are flourishing in the urban core, while the chains are focusing on Memorial Road / Moore / Edmond, etc.

Although it's nice to see places like Wes Welker's, S&B's and The Shack open up along Memorial. Plus already existing places like Cafe 7, Cool Greens, Avanti (don't sell it short since it's in a Courtyard).

Betts, I'm fairly sure our per capita income is a bit higher, we just lack the concentrations of income in key corridors that Tulsa has.

It wasn't a few years ago when we were having this same discussion, but that may have changed.

Although it's nice to see places like Wes Welker's, S&B's and The Shack open up along Memorial. Plus already existing places like Cafe 7, Cool Greens, Avanti (don't sell it short since it's in a Courtyard).

Don't forget locally owned Nunu's. Best Lebanese food in OKC, by far.

Winn Dixie but first would have to open a location Arkansas first. Twin Peaks? Rally House because could Thunder.49ers,Sooners so on local Teams stuff and things from OK? Marshall Fields but none in MO,KS,Arkansas yet?

Winn Dixie but first would have to open a location Arkansas first. Twin Peaks? Rally House because could Thunder.49ers,Sooners so on local Teams stuff and things from OK? Marshall Fields but none in MO,KS,Arkansas yet?

There is already a Twin Peaks on Memorial......

You've also mentioned Ross, which is already at Quail Springs Marketplace. As well as Smokey Bones and Books A Million which have both failed in this area.

Double post

Obviously, this particular Proposed Retail KlusterFukke can't be all things to all people . . .
But go for it anyways! That's always best for everyone!

That being said . . .

If THEY could Copy and Paste something along the lines of THIS "development" in that area, I would limit my objections to the "Winn-Dixie" style of Traffic Engineering that for which we are famous. =)

http://www.theshopsatwestend.com/

Especially if THEY would include a Buco di Beppo.
Which, up there, is located in a different area altogether.
Yet, which looks likes an Instant Small Town Main Street.
Sort of.

And THEY wouldn't even have to "design-in" heated underground parking and elevators and moving sidewalks/escalators from the carpark to the sidewalk level because it doesn't get as cold here as it does up there!

That is an example of Lifestyle centers that have been discussed in other threads. There are a couple of excellent examples here in the Denver area that are very successful including one that replaced an old Shepherd Mall era mall in an area that is not much different from the neighborhood around Shepherd Mall. I would love to see that replace my old stomping grounds.

Obviously, this particular Proposed Retail KlusterFukke can't be all things to all people . . .
But go for it anyways! That's always best for everyone!



No, this is supposed to be an upper-class development, so it's more like what a friend of mine calls a (phonetically now) Clustair Fookay.