How does Von Maur compare to Saks? I have never been in a Von Maur but from what I know, I see OKC as finally catching up to Tulsa in that we will finally have an upscale department store on this side of the turnpike. Great catch for OKC but Tulsa has had Saks for almost a decade.

Typical of your logic and debating style to keep imposing new parameters and criteria after you've been proven wrong.

You SAID Nordstrom would count but are now saying Von Maur doesn't because Tulsa has a Saks? Makes absolutely zero sense.

Also, since you clearly didn't know this, the Saks in Tulsa is very small, only about 40,000 square feet. Their typical stores are double that size and they have many that are much bigger. Frankly, I'd rather have OKC's 28,000 SF Saks Off Fifth.

The Von Maur at QS will be 150,000 SF, more than 3 times the size of the Saks in Tulsa. Absolutely no comparison between the two.


BTW, the Saks in Tulsa opened in 1986; almost 30 years ago.

Kinda reminds me of the old saying about if you make your bed then lie in it? That seems to never happen to that particular poster. He'll just move the bed across the room and say he never made it to begin with. Despite it being obvious if one just follows the bread crumbs back.

Kinda reminds me of the old saying about if you make your bed then lie in it? That seems to never happen to that particular poster. He'll just move the bed across the room and say he never made it to begin with. Despite it being obvious if one just follows the bread crumbs back.

I get what you are saying. The "No True Scotsman" fallacy. However, that's not my position on this.

Listen, OKC is going places. There are a lot of good things happening here and this city is really pulling ahead of Tulsa in a lot of areas. Retail however isn't one of them, yet. We will get there and we are gaining ground fast, but way too many high-profile national retailers are still being announced for Tulsa first (or only). Tulsa also gets preferential treatment from retailers that are already in both cities i.e. Whole Foods. Until that changes, and it should, there is nothing wrong or inaccurate about my statements regarding Tulsa and retail.

I would be much more excited about a Pappadeaux, which Tulsa is getting.Where did you hear this????

Where did you hear this????

It was posted on here a while back by one of our Tulsa posters. I took the poster at his word but upon doing research I haven't found anything else about it so maybe its not true. It would be amazing if Pappadeaux ended up in Chisolm Creek or some other OKC development however.

I get what you are saying. The "No True Scotsman" fallacy. However, that's not my position on this.

What you do is not a "position", it's pure dishonesty. YOU put forth a criteria then don't honor it.

And then when logical, valid facts are presented in opposition, you switch again. Now we're off Von Maur (because you can't counter) and move on to Whole Foods and some silliness about "preferential treatment from retailers that are already in both cities".

And of course, TopGolf doesn't count for reasons you'll have no trouble manufacturing.

Who said Vitamin Shoppe is a huge catch? One guy said he liked it when he lived in Philly. I loved it when I lived in Phoenix. It's a sensible option to GNC's overpriced crap, although I'll still buy my supplements at Discount Sports Nutrition behind Target on NW Expressway and Rockwell.

Not to ruffle any feathers, but it seems Von Maur is on par with Dillards and Macy's (new macy's, not old macy's). It doesn't seem to be on par with Saks, Barney's, Nordstroms, or Nieman Marcus.

I've only been in one Von Maur, the one at Town East in Wichita, and it's nicer than any Dillards I've been in.

What you do is not a "position", it's pure dishonesty. YOU put forth a criteria then don't honor it.

And then when logical, valid facts are presented in opposition, you switch again. Now we're off Von Maur (because you can't counter) and move on to Whole Foods and some silliness about "preferential treatment from retailers that are already in both cities".

I stand corrected. Other than Sak's and a few trendy clothes stores like Urban Outfitters Tulsa doesn't have a whole lot that OKC doesn't. The other exception is grocery stores. Like most amenities, they are getting better in OKC but we still have a long way to go on this end of the turnpike. That's why I think Trader Joe's is such a huge deal. Five or even three years ago they probably would have opted for Tulsa first.

OKC
-----
Von Maur
TopGolf
Ruth's Chris
Falla's
Main Event
Cabella's
Microsoft
Trader Joe's (Likely)

Tulsa
------
Saks Fifth Avenue
Whole Foods
Fresh Market
Urban Outfitters
Costco (Likely)
Pappadeaux (Possibly)

My office is right down the street from a Von Maur. It MIGHT be a step up from Macy's but it is definitely not a Nordstrom or a Saks.

My office is right down the street from a Von Maur. It MIGHT be a step up from Macy's but it is definitely not a Nordstrom or a Saks.

Agree, Nordstrom, Neiman Marcus and Saks are on another level. I do think eventually there will be a Nordstrom in OKC, at Penn Square.

Von Maur is about halfway between Dillards and Nordstrom. All you have to do is look at the lines they carry to make the distinctions.

Saks is closing stores all over the place and is concentrating more on the Off Fifth format.

And Nordstroms has quite a bit of variation between store to store. The one closest to me is nice, but doesn't carry a lot of the lines like another just about 15 miles away. I guarantee you the Von Maur going into Quail Springs will be comparable to my closest Nordstrom, which is one of their newest locations. That VM will be larger as well.

Von Maur is about halfway between Dillards and Nordstrom. All you have to do is look at the lines they carry to make the distinctions.



That's exactly where they are. This will be something that gets me to drive "all the way" to Memorial. And compared to the dingy Dillard's at Quail, there will be no question as to which one is nicer. If you're not impressed when you first walk in, I'm not sure what would do it. You will never see merchandise boxes half empty on the floor, or overfilled rounders covering all available floor space. You'll find an impressive build out, kept very clean, a staff that's way above average in customer service. I normally don't shop at department stores, but when I lived near a Von Maur, I purchased plenty.

I've been in Tulsa Saks once. I can't imagine ever needing to go back.

My office is right down the street from a Von Maur. It MIGHT be a step up from Macy's but it is definitely not a Nordstrom or a Saks.

By the industry, Von Maur is definitely considered more upscale than Macy's. Macy's has slipped. VM is some below Nordstrom but I think todays Saks is not so far above them. And the Tulsa Saks is not above them at all.

On a tangent - I heard that Planning Commission approved 200-400 new apartments in the development directly to the north of Quail Springs Mall yesterday. PC and staff had asked the apartments to connect to Quail Springs, vehicular and/or pedestrian, but Quail Springs wouldn't talk. I don't see how Quail Springs will survive more than 20 years... connections are key. At a minimum, a pedestrian connection would help encourage people to spend more time at Quail Springs instead of inside their apartments...

^^its not like they can't stroll over to the mall. If there's a wrought iron fence, include a pedestrian opening swing gate or turnstile gate like the Dell Campus has to let residents gain access to the mall property.


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That's exactly where they are. This will be something that gets me to drive "all the way" to Memorial. And compared to the dingy Dillard's at Quail, there will be no question as to which one is nicer. If you're not impressed when you first walk in, I'm not sure what would do it. You will never see merchandise boxes half empty on the floor, or overfilled rounders covering all available floor space. You'll find an impressive build out, kept very clean, a staff that's way above average in customer service. I normally don't shop at department stores, but when I lived near a Von Maur, I purchased plenty.

I've been in Tulsa Saks once. I can't imagine ever needing to go back.

No question about it. And why is it that the Quail stores never are quite up to par with Penn Square? Dillard's is a perfect example. Von Maur will do wonders for Quail.

OKC had Uber first.

#suckitchris

:)

These are photos from the Von Maur just opened in Birmingham. OKC's will be almost exactly the same:

http://imgick.al.com/home/bama-media/pgmain/img/birmingham-news/photo/2013/10/-9546c7cc5428c7be.JPG


http://imgick.al.com/home/bama-media/pgmain/img/birmingham-news/photo/2013/10/-eb3135046cdc3e5d.JPG


http://imgick.al.com/home/bama-media/pgmain/img/birmingham-news/photo/2013/10/-7d686b9a4b09aa7c.JPG


http://imgick.al.com/home/bama-media/pgmain/img/birmingham-news/photo/2013/10/-aaafc0188d93c2ff.JPG


http://imgick.al.com/home/bama-media/pgmain/img/birmingham-news/photo/2013/10/-ea94345ed1969aea.JPG


http://imgick.al.com/home/bama-media/pgmain/img/birmingham-news/photo/2013/10/-e6bb86e9bbb91a10.JPG

Wow. That's a very nice store. No comparison to anything here now.

Yes, this looks very much like the Nordstrom that opened near me a couple of years ago.

Should be a big step up from any department stores currently in OKC.


BTW, back to the subject of the Saks in Tulsa... The Balliet's in Classen Curve is almost 20,000 SF and is infinitely nicer both in terms of design and level of merchandise.

Well Tulsa is getting the first COSTCO in =Oklahoma
Costco Coming to Tulsa in 2015 - KTUL.com - Tulsa, Oklahoma - News, Weather & Sports (http://www.ktul.com/story/25370838/costco-coming-to-tulsa-in-2015)

Well Tulsa is getting the first COSTCO in =Oklahoma
Costco Coming to Tulsa in 2015 - KTUL.com - Tulsa, Oklahoma - News, Weather & Sports (http://www.ktul.com/story/25370838/costco-coming-to-tulsa-in-2015)

Chris wins.

welp looks like I'm gonna have to make a trip to Tulsa next year lol
And seriously you guys are so awesome. HOW DO YOU KNOW THESE THINGS?!

Well Tulsa is getting the first COSTCO in =Oklahoma
Costco Coming to Tulsa in 2015 - KTUL.com - Tulsa, Oklahoma - News, Weather & Sports (http://www.ktul.com/story/25370838/costco-coming-to-tulsa-in-2015)
Costco in Active Negotiations - OKCTalk (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=Costco%20in%20Active%20Negotiat ions&page=6#post780403)

http://www.okctalk.com/tulsa-suburbs/37640-costco-stores-tulsa.html


Chris wins.

What? Are you talking about Bchris? There is no one winning or loosing here, so I don't know what the hell you're talking about.

You're last post was this
OKC had Uber first. #suckitchris so if you're referring to Bchris, are you obsessed with him or something? wtf


welp looks like I'm gonna have to make a trip to Tulsa next year lol
And seriously you guys are so awesome. HOW DO YOU KNOW THESE THINGS?!
What?

Just saw this go by on the Chisholm Creek twitter feed.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M7_ChITWos

Kind of odd seeing so many shots of downtown in their promotional videos considering how far the development is from downtown.

Just saw this go by on the Chisholm Creek twitter feed.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M7_ChITWos

Kind of odd seeing so many shots of downtown in their promotional videos considering how far the development is from downtown.

See my post #582 one page back. I posted the link, but the direct youtube video.

See my post #582 one page back. I posted the link, but the direct youtube video.

This one has a publish date of May 6 on YouTube, so I thought it was new. They must have taken down the previous copy, the video linked in post #582 is broken at the moment.

Just saw this go by on the Chisholm Creek twitter feed.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M7_ChITWos

Kind of odd seeing so many shots of downtown in their promotional videos considering how far the development is from downtown.

I could be mistaken but I think the reason for that may be to get across the idea of mixed use. There's really no place in OKC to show what mixed use looks like except for our growing urban core. And mixed use has to be visualized because in a place like Oklahoma, many people may not be aware of what it is or what it means.

And they are also trying to market to retailers and businesses who aren't already in OKC, so they are no doubt trying to take advantage of everything that has been happening in town, including downtown.

And they are also trying to market to retailers and businesses who aren't already in OKC, so they are no doubt trying to take advantage of everything that has been happening in town, including downtown.

That certainly helps discredit dred's narrative that the money being spent downtown isn't helping the rest of the city.


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This one has a publish date of May 6 on YouTube, so I thought it was new. They must have taken down the previous copy, the video linked in post #582 is broken at the moment.

Good catch, I didn't see that.

New siteplan for Chisholm Creek:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cc050814.jpg

That certainly helps discredit dred's narrative that the money being spent downtown isn't helping the rest of the city.


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That was just a stupid narrative altogether. It's like trying to argue what's good for your heart isn't helping your body.

That was just a stupid narrative altogether. It's like trying to argue what's good for your heart isn't helping your body.

Definitely agree


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LOVE the new site plan. Looks more like a true life-style center instead of some of the previous conceptual site plans. I am especially digging the urban design principles applied to the stretch of road that connects the northern pond area all the way to the entertainment venues and residential, with nothing but "built-to-the-street" mixed-use walkability in between.

What are those gray things with triangles in the south west portion of the development?

It's an improvement for sure. I'd like to see a bit more residential, or at least take some of it and put it in other parts of the development.

What are those gray things with triangles in the south west portion of the development?

Parking structures.

Was in Raleigh last weekend and saw a smaller version of a mixed use development like this and got excited about this opportunity to have something similar within a couple miles from my house. Especially like the roundabouts in the street plan and the bikeability/walkability in the plan as well. They had bike routes and trails all around Raleigh.


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Parking structures.

like, covered parking, or actual 2+ story parking garages?

If the latter, then they have gone to the nth degree of overkill on the parking. They should save themselves some money on concrete and turn some of those lots into parks, basketball courts, tennis courts, something other than a sea of parking that will never be more than 80% capacity save for maybe 5 to 10 days between Thanksgiving and Christmas.

Wow, this took a turn for the better. Looks like a smaller version of Crocker Park or Zona Rosa.

They have big-time partners out of Austin who know what they are doing.

The deeper we get into this project, the more you see their influence.

They have big-time partners out of Austin who know what they are doing.

The deeper we get into this project, the more you see their influence.

Cool. This may end up being a bigger deal than a lot of people realize right now.

The music venue is the most intriguing part to me.

The Austin people have connections to big promoters, as I had previously mentioned.


For a project with so much interior property, I can't believe they are putting the backside of TopGolf right up close to what little frontage they have to offer. Or, that they sold off the corner to a hospital.

Those two moves are very concerning.

If this happens as envisioned now, do you think it could spell trouble for Quail Springs Mall? Back in October, you reported H&M as also being interested. Any updates on that?

I thought a separate group owned the land the hospital is going on, independent of this group?

also, looks like like they are still planning to use Western frontage (golf course behind that building)

I thought a separate group owned the land the hospital is going on, independent of this group?

also, looks like like they are still planning to use Western frontage (golf course behind that building)

The St. Anthony site was owned by this same group.

And regarding the Western frontage, they have severely limited themselves to only small buildings there.

Big, national retailers don't like to go on interior locations, especially in a low-density town like OKC and especially when you competition is fronting major thoroughfares. Hopefully they can talk a few into it otherwise I'm not sure how they can make the non-frontage property work for anything but offices.

Does anyone know what's going in on the north side of the Turnpike near the North Church? I believe it's the northeast corner of Memorial and Pawnee Dr.?

Does anyone know what's going in on the north side of the Turnpike near the North Church? I believe it's the northeast corner of Memorial and Pawnee Dr.?

Welcome to the site.

It's Main Event.

Welcome to the site.

It's Main Event.

Sorry, I'm new... :pat_head:

I get on here often and for a couple of years, but just to look at progress. Moving from Edmond to Stillwater at the end of the month. This will be my outlet to see the progress when we move away.

So it looks like there are 2 Cabelas/Costco like structures. Same as before, right?

They are soil testing to west, behind the health center being built. Wonder what might be going in that spot? Pete, anything you could find out?

My guess would be Cabelas.

They are soil testing to west, behind the health center being built. Wonder what might be going in that spot? Pete, anything you could find out?

Just heard today that Cabela's is pretty much a done deal. The developers are telling other prospective tenants as much.

Should have official word soon.

Any thoughts on the new promotional video?

Any thoughts on the new promotional video?

Is it the video that was posted earlier in this thread or is there another one now?

Some new maps from their website:

TRADE AREA MAP
http://www.chisholmcreek.com/theme/images/tmp/preview-3-big.jpg

REGIONAL CONTEXT MAP
http://www.chisholmcreek.com/theme/images/tmp/preview-2-big.jpg

Some other cool info about this project on their website:


Oklahoma’s first mixed-use development, Chisholm Creek, redefines the suburban experience with a uniquely urban confluence of residents, retailers, businesses and visitors creating a vibrant lifestyle delta. From eclectic dining and top shelf shopping to upscale hotels and contemporary residential, there is something for everyone at Chisholm Creek.

Directing the current of Chisholm Creek is The Medallion Group, of Oklahoma City and The Retail Endeavors Group, of Austin, Texas. Both companies are committed to helping build Oklahoma City’s vibrant tomorrow.


Nestled in the growth corridor of Northern Oklahoma City, our master planned development is perfect for anyone who enjoys working and playing hard; Chisholm Creek boasts fantastic amenities, miles of fitness trails, expansive green spaces, an adjacent hospital and easy highway access. The eclectic architecture of our multi-family residences and luxury apartments offer urban sophistication without sacrificing the benefit of suburban living.


Chisholm Creek redefines the suburban office park with over a million square feet of office space set comfortably amongst cafés, shops and restaurants. So whether it is an entrepreneurial start-up, a medical practice or anything in-between, forward thinking businesses have the opportunity to give employees an urban work experience without any of the downtown hassle.


Welcome to a foodie paradise featuring gourmet coffee, bistros with delicious menus and enough five-star restaurants to silence the harshest food critic. Those looking for a fun night out on the town won’t be disappointed with our abundant choices high-energy bars, pubs and venues for the best in live music.


Chisholm Creek sprinkles distinctive high-end local retailers amongst the newest big brand shops putting down roots in the city. As a mixed-use development, we are not only a shopper’s paradise but also a hub for fantastic entertainment. Visitors and residents can expect plenty of entertainment options from our amazing live music at our outdoor amphitheater, to an 80 acre city park connected to the south of the property, to the state’s first Top Golf; at Chisholm Creek there will never be a lack of something fun to experience.

http://www.chisholmcreek.com/

I believe this was updated as well

http://www.chisholmcreek.com/ChisholmCreekOne-Sheet-new.pdf

I believe this was updated as well

http://www.chisholmcreek.com/ChisholmCreekOne-Sheet-new.pdf

Looking at page 3 and noticing there is A LOT of retail space. Hopefully we get some chains OKC or Edmond has never seen. Maybe a few of the retailers that are proposed for NHP.