I was involved in an (almost) hit and run a couple of years ago. A guy ran a red light, and plowed into my car (with my wife and kids in it) and then backed up and attempted to take off from the scene. Luckily, a few of the other cars moved and blocked him in (including a large pick-up truck that the guy plowed into). Probably not the smart thing to do, and the police would rather you NEVER take the law into your own hands. However, I'm happy they did it.

2 weeks ago my friend purchased a brand new street king. On the day he tagged it he was parked at a bar with a bunch of friends when another bike came out and dropped his bike onto my friends' bike. The guy hopped on his bike and tried to take off, and all of the other bikers surrounded him and kept him from leaving. They didn't do anything to him; the only goal was to get his insurance information.

In both of these cases, I *guess* the person surrounded would have been legally justified in pulling a gun and shooting folks. Thank god not everyone thinks that way.

That's all fine-and-well - EXCEPT in both of your scenarios the person surrounded had done something significantly wrong without provocation.

I've seen/heard of nothing the SUV driver did that was provocative.

Naturally if you've committed a crime then you have pretty good idea why people want to detain you.

I was involved in an (almost) hit and run a couple of years ago. A guy ran a red light, and plowed into my car (with my wife and kids in it) and then backed up and attempted to take off from the scene. Luckily, a few of the other cars moved and blocked him in (including a large pick-up truck that the guy plowed into). Probably not the smart thing to do, and the police would rather you NEVER take the law into your own hands. However, I'm happy they did it.

2 weeks ago my friend purchased a brand new street king. On the day he tagged it he was parked at a bar with a bunch of friends when another bike came out and dropped his bike onto my friends' bike. The guy hopped on his bike and tried to take off, and all of the other bikers surrounded him and kept him from leaving. They didn't do anything to him; the only goal was to get his insurance information.

In both of these cases, I *guess* the person surrounded would have been legally justified in pulling a gun and shooting folks. Thank god not everyone thinks that way.

I've said as much in this thread: I'd have been fine if a small group followed him to make sure things went down properly.

15 - 30 people on bikes, that are all clearly one group...not a chance in hell is that okay.

And your last paragraph is crap and you know it. Nobody here is even remotely implying such a thing, and if you think that's the case, then you're neither reading closely enough nor trying to understand what others are saying.

I think everyone here would agree that the only the only point it would have been okay for a trigger to be pulled was when the guy bashed the window in, MAYBE when they tried to open his door in the middle of the freeway.

In both of these cases, I *guess* the person surrounded would have been legally justified in pulling a gun and shooting folks. Thank god not everyone thinks that way.

So you think you'd have the right to use deadly force to accomplish the felony of leaving the scene of an accident?

So you think you'd have the right to use deadly force to accomplish the felony of leaving the scene of an accident?

I said I *guess*, not that I agree. And yeah, if you can prove you had a reasonable fear of your life and safely, you could make that legal argument.

Midtowner,
Do you really believe running to save your family from a fairly obvious threat on their (and your) life is a leaving the scene of an accident and a "felony"? I'm afraid I can't agree and the police don't agree either. The driver had every right to try and escape the animals that were harassing him.
C. T.
So you think you'd have the right to use deadly force to accomplish the felony of leaving the scene of an accident?

And your last paragraph is crap and you know it. Nobody here is even remotely implying such a thing, and if you think that's the case, then you're neither reading closely enough nor trying to understand what others are saying.

I think everyone here would agree that the only the only point it would have been okay for a trigger to be pulled was when the guy bashed the window in, MAYBE when they tried to open his door in the middle of the freeway.

Really? Quotes on the first page of this thread alone...

"Too bad the driver didn't have a gun and couldn't have simply shot anyone posing an immediate threat

if the the SUV driver thought he family was threatened or actually were being threatened...then you do what you must to protect them and get away. If that means mowing down a bunch of bikers coming after you, so be it.

These bikers are lucky I was not in the Range Rover, I will say that much, and I'm not just trying to act like some badass on the internet.

I would like to seem them come here in Oklahoma and try and pull something like that and see what happens.

If it had been me once the assault began I would have mowed down as many of them as I could and if that did not dissuade the others and the assault continued a firearm would have put as many as I had bullets down.

Perhaps they should have broken out the snowplows early...would have made it a bit easier IMO. :-X"

I'd like to toss in a recommendation for the Triumph Modern Classics line (Classics | Triumph Motorcycles (http://www.triumphmotorcycles.com/motorcycles/range/classics)). The Bonneville and Thruxton are considered excellent starter bikes with tremendous reliability. The Bonneville is comparable to the previously-mentioned HD Sportster (in fact HD originally introduced the Sportster to compete with the old Bonneville, which was dominating the segment in the states at the time of the Sportster's introduction).

The Bonneville & Thruxton (basically a factory cafe racer version of the Bonnie) are good as starters because they are easy to ride but aren't as limiting as some others. They handle simply (though still fun/rewarding to ride hard), and while at 865cc and 67bhp they are easily powerful enough for highway riding they aren't so powerful (read many/most sport bikes) that you feel stifled and frustrated in stoplight-to-stoplight city riding (should be a consideration if you plan to ride mostly in town). They both offer very comfortable riding positions (should be among your top considerations; get a bike that physically fits your desired riding style).

If buying new, I would recommend against buying something in the 250 range, as you will quickly get confidence on a good motorcycle and just as quickly become frustrated by the lack of performance in a drastically-undersized bike. No need to switch bikes in a few months.

Back to Triumph: I also really appreciate the lack of pretense associated with riding one. There are good bikers of all types, but for some of the mainstream lines it becomes more of a poseur costume party than about the riding itself. Not much of that with this line. It's just a fun bike to ride, and turns plenty of heads, though it is also bonafide grandpa bait. Lots of old fellas stopping you to ask you what year it is and tell you about the one they supposedly owned back in '68.

Triumph also has a bunch of great modern rides in the sport/street, cruiser, touring and dual-sport areas, if any of those float your boat. Go read some reviews on-line. They are a darling of motorcycle magazines. Unfortunately you'll presently have to go out of state to get a new one, but it's easy (I did), and good local service is available.

Don't buy something just because "that's what everyone else rides". Motorcycles at their very essence are about individualism. Get the bike that is right for you, take your time to figure out what that is, and listen to your inner voice, not just recommendations from others (me included). And for goodness' sake, take an MSF class (the one at OSU-OKC is excellent) and get your endorsement BEFORE you buy, and never act like the squid hooligans in that video.
I had a 2000 Triumph Sprint before my current Concours 14, the Triumphs are great bikes. If the new Trophy was out when I bought the C14 I would have the Trophy instead. When it comes time for wife to get a larger bike, the Bonneville will probably be the choice (or a Moto Guzzi Breva 750/800). I sometimes wish I had a Bonnie as well, just something smaller to ride around town.


The bikers should have got his license plate and called 911, not go after a man and his family. I've had several close calls on the bike and felt like going after the person but commom sense took over.
They wouldn't because they were involved in a criminal act. They were stunters looking to block the highway so they could do their stupid acts. The Range Rover driver evidently entered the highway on a ramp they hadn't blocked yet but they did have the highway behind the ramp blocked. I saw one report that stated 15 people arrested, 55 bikes impounded/sized, 68 tickets at the Times Square destination (not people in this gang) that is where this group was headed. Most of the bikes were reported to have license plates not registered with that particular vehicle. This group was nothing more than thugs on bikes, those that were just there for the ride probably broke off from the group as things escalated.

The injured rider was from Massachusetts and had no license, not a drivers license or M endorsement, this quote was from The Boston Globe today.

Though Mieses is a Massachusetts resident, he has never had a valid Massachusetts driver’s license for a passenger vehicle and has never applied for a motorcycle license, the Registry of Motor Vehicles said.

Registry records show that Mieses applied for a learner’s permit in 1999 and 2000, but that he never obtained a full license because he failed to pay fines imposed after he was ticketed for speeding in Lawrence in 1999. His last contact with the Registry was in 2001, when he obtained an identification card, registry records show.

Since 1999, he has been ticketed by police 16 times, in Lawrence, Methuen, Roxbury, Andover, and New Hampshire, according to registry records.

In June, the Registry notified the National Driver Register that Mieses was a habitual traffic offender whose right to drive in Massachusetts was revoked until 2017, records show.

This blocking of the highway for stunters to do their stupid stuff happens elsewhere, I have heard of many cases in KC and Dallas, one chase on the Dallas North Tollway between these idiots and a car that dared get in their way in which a rider died. There was a couple that died on I-45 when a group of riders were going the wrong way on 45 and caused accidents. Stupidity can cause death, stupidity in groups can cause mayhem.

I definitely know that some car drivers can be immature jerks as well but these type of groups are just the thug personified.

PluPan, here is a nice and thorough comparison from earlier this year of the Iron 883 version of the Sportster, the great-looking Moto Guzzi V7 Stone, and a Bonneville with an awful, old-man paint job (fortunately they don't all look like that):

Harley-Davidson Sportster 883 Iron vs. Moto Guzzi V7 Stone vs. Triumph Bonneville - Motorcyclist Magazine (http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/comparisons/122_1302_harley_davidson_sportster_883_iron_vs_mot o_guzzi_v7_stone_vs_triumph_bonneville/viewall.html)

That driver clearly showed more restraint than I would have. I am civil person who follows the law and applies common sense in everything I do. However, if you put my family in harms way I am finding a way to get out of it. I would have been moving all over the road. Turned around and went the other direction, would have jumped back on at the off ramp.

This situation here is why you should always be aware of your surroundings and have a game plan on what to do when danger comes knocking. If you have a plan, you will always have your wits about you so you don't over react and do something that you will regret later while staring at your fellow inmates in a 4x8 cell. Yes, you do have a right to defend yourself but, you have to show some that you had no other option when you take extreme measures. This driver was clearly in one of those situations. I hope they prosecute as many riders in that group as possible. They should have followed the rules of the road, obtained a tag number or followed at a safe distance until police arrived. I am positive the driver of the SUV would have stopped when police arrived.

This situation right here is one of the many reasons I am glad I live in Oklahoma. Police would have been on scene quickly just simply because every driver on the road would have been blowing up the lines at 911. Not to mention other drivers would have been getting out of there vehicles to stop the attack on the Ranger Roger.

Midtowner,
Do you really believe running to save your family from a fairly obvious threat on their (and your) life is a leaving the scene of an accident and a "felony"? I'm afraid I can't agree and the police don't agree either. The driver had every right to try and escape the animals that were harassing him.
C. T.

You're not understanding what Midtowner wrote. He was referring to the examples JerryWall posted - those examples used scenarios where a person tried to flee after they had just committed an unprovoked accident. Completely different from the SUV vs. Crotch Rockets.

Jerry as a former cruiser rider myself I actaully agree with you I've almost been killed by drivers who acted like they had no responsibility for my safety.


I've also been in a hit and run in my truck where the other person took off and left me dealing with the police and 6 weeks worth of shop repairs.

I don't know what happened before the video started, but you don't hit people while on the road and you don't flee the seen of an accident.

I don't know what happened before the video started, but you don't hit people while on the road and you don't flee the seen of an accident.

You do when you think the people standing around are going to kill you. Just Google how many people are beaten to death after a minor traffic accident. My wife and a friend of hers were involved in a minor crash where they were hit by a drunk driver. While waiting for police the drunk got violent and my wife and her friend had to get in the car and lock the doors to keep from being assaulted. The police showed up before things could escalate with my wife but he was charged with assaulting a police officer. If he is going to assault a police officer what would he have done to my wife and her friend (who was another woman BTW).

Believe it or not - some people aren't happy when they get in a crash. I was sitting at a red light with my kids in the car and someone rear ended the pickup next to me. The driver of the pickup got out yelling obscenities at the person who hit him - who we didn't even know had been injured or not. I got out of the car and had to tell the guy it was just metal, plastic and rubber so there was no need to get upset about it. After we sat there waiting for police for a few minutes he walked over and thanked me for calming him down. Imagine if I hadn't been there but 4 or 5 of his 'buddies' had been. The driver of the car could be dead - who happened to be in the car with his wife. She also walked over and thanked me.

Midtowner,
Do you really believe running to save your family from a fairly obvious threat on their (and your) life is a leaving the scene of an accident and a "felony"? I'm afraid I can't agree and the police don't agree either. The driver had every right to try and escape the animals that were harassing him.
C. T.

That wasn't the given hypo. This was:


I was involved in an (almost) hit and run a couple of years ago. A guy ran a red light, and plowed into my car (with my wife and kids in it) and then backed up and attempted to take off from the scene. Luckily, a few of the other cars moved and blocked him in (including a large pick-up truck that the guy plowed into). Probably not the smart thing to do, and the police would rather you NEVER take the law into your own hands. However, I'm happy they did it.

2 weeks ago my friend purchased a brand new street king. On the day he tagged it he was parked at a bar with a bunch of friends when another bike came out and dropped his bike onto my friends' bike. The guy hopped on his bike and tried to take off, and all of the other bikers surrounded him and kept him from leaving. They didn't do anything to him; the only goal was to get his insurance information.

Yes, that would have been fleeing the scene and it using a firearm in the commission of a felony and possibly a homicide charge.

Oops, sorry Midtowner, and thanks BBatesokc.
C. T.
You're not understanding what Midtowner wrote. He was referring to the examples JerryWall posted - those examples used scenarios where a person tried to flee after they had just committed an unprovoked accident. Completely different from the SUV vs. Crotch Rockets.

Midtowner,
I understand it better now. Too much for my feeble brain to comprehend last night.
C. T.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/04/nyregion/drivers-wife-discusses-clash-with-motorcyclists.html?hpw

Interesting that one rider is in a medically induced coma. Makes you wonder what went down early on that is not on the tape. Or perhaps thats when the Range Rover plowed over those bikes early in the tape. Obviously the driver was scared.

He was run over AFTER they were already beating on the car.

Really? Quotes on the first page of this thread alone...

"Too bad the driver didn't have a gun and couldn't have simply shot anyone posing an immediate threat

if the the SUV driver thought he family was threatened or actually were being threatened...then you do what you must to protect them and get away. If that means mowing down a bunch of bikers coming after you, so be it.

These bikers are lucky I was not in the Range Rover, I will say that much, and I'm not just trying to act like some badass on the internet.

I would like to seem them come here in Oklahoma and try and pull something like that and see what happens.

If it had been me once the assault began I would have mowed down as many of them as I could and if that did not dissuade the others and the assault continued a firearm would have put as many as I had bullets down.

Perhaps they should have broken out the snowplows early...would have made it a bit easier IMO. :-X"

Fair enough... +1 jerrywall

A undercover cop was one of the riders and didn't do anything to stop or help the situation .

A undercover cop was one of the riders and didn't do anything to stop or help the situation .

I think there is some questions as to why the cop waited so long to come forward - however, I doubt there is anything he could have done during the situation to change the outcome.

A undercover cop was one of the riders and didn't do anything to stop or help the situation .

Maybe he was undercover....

Maybe he was undercover....
constructive criticism: a question mark, in parentheses, at the end of the ellipses, might have served to indicate "like, duh . . ."
(but prob'ly not. sorry. it was perfect as it was. =)

A undercover cop was one of the riders and didn't do anything to stop or help the situation .Even if he wanted to blow his cover, what could've he have done with 30+ people? He could start busting caps in their asses, but tell me what the repercussions of that would've been.

... I plan on taking the advanced training course at OSU
Have you taken the first course?

I had a cousin ride a Ducati 250 from D.C. to Mexico City and back.
He turned it into a racing bike and went on a racing circuit.
That was in the 70's.

I ride a Suzuki Boulevard.

Have you taken the first course?

I had a cousin ride a Ducati 250 from D.C. to Mexico City and back.
He turned it into a racing bike and went on a racing circuit.
That was in the 70's.

I ride a Suzuki Boulevard.I actually have not and will need to do that before I take the advanced class. The first one is great because they provide a starter bike for you and then you can purchase one of your preferred bikes and master it at the advanced training course. I've also heard Edmond has a deal where you train with motorcycle cops, maybe I'll meet one that has given me ticket ;)

D.C. to Mexico City and back, that is a brave course. I'm not talking about cars either, I'm talking about the cartels out there, brave son-of-a-gun!

I seem to be contributing too much "off topic" information, but I have to say that I attended the Edmond course with motorcycle police officers and it was excellent. That was quite a few years ago, but it impressed me when they said that anybody could ride fast, they were going to teach us how to ride slow. Truer words were never spoken. I no longer stopped at a stop sign/light looking like a waddling duck and I was a much better rider overall.
C. T.

I've I had been in that vehicle and received that kind of proactive threat I would have parted that bunch like the red sea and headed for the nearest precinct station or even just a black and white. I vigorously protect any of my family.

CT...the motorcycle course saved my neck numerous times.

I even think non motor cycle riders should take it to learn a little empathy.

It's just another perfect example of someone is distress and not one damn person comes to their aid not even a cop he's too worried about his job then doing the right thing. Its a sad world for sure we are raisng a bunch of PUSSIES that won't stand up against wrong

I seem to be contributing too much "off topic" information, but I have to say that I attended the Edmond course with motorcycle police officers and it was excellent. That was quite a few years ago, but it impressed me when they said that anybody could ride fast, they were going to teach us how to ride slow. Truer words were never spoken. I no longer stopped at a stop sign/light looking like a waddling duck and I was a much better rider overall.
C. T.How do you do that? I looked on the Edmond Police website and couldn't find anything. :/

Maybe it is through something else, I don't know.

CT...the motorcycle course saved my neck numerous times.

I even think non motor cycle riders should take it to learn a little empathy.The Edmond police course or the OSU??

It's just another perfect example of someone is distress and not one damn person comes to their aid not even a cop he's too worried about his job then doing the right thing. Its a sad world for sure we are raisng a bunch of PUSSIES that won't stand up against wrongMaybe he has some others still among them and going to bust them in a sting. . .

Maybe he has some others still among them and going to bust them in a sting. . .

Sorry - i've been doing alot of phone posting lately. Really any motorcycle course, i took mine in bartlesville. You just learn so many good to know things about road hazards, human responses, and environmental hazards that you dont get in a drivers ed course.

Even though i dont ride anymore its made me a better driver towards motorcycles and to other cars.

It's just another perfect example of someone is distress and not one damn person comes to their aid not even a cop he's too worried about his job then doing the right thing. Its a sad world for sure we are raisng a bunch of PUSSIES that won't stand up against wrong

Too bad the Avengers were off making another movie, they could have stepped in.

That wasn't very nice. I think Kelroy was joking about the Avengers thing.

Anyways, I'm sure Kelroy would've helped anyway he could of if he was there, as would most of us. I do agree with you something should of been done, but nothing was and this was allowed to happen. The only thing people can do is learn from their mistakes and move on.

It's easy to say after the fact what somebody should have done. I can't say for sure what I would have done because I've never been in that situation. I would like to think I would do whatever I could but in reality not sure I would get out and confront an angry mob by myself. As for the person calling me a puss*** I've found over the years the one calling others puss*** and what they would have done are usually the first to run away.

The Edmond police course or the OSU??
I took the OSU course and it was excellent. Search. Evaluate. Execute.

SEE!

Something that I use on a daily basis. However, the course doesn't
provide any information on using Q's defensive accoutrements. I found
that quite dissatisfying.

I've learned to never trust anyone in a car. Even if it's a DB5. I'm
wanting to get some rockets for my bike. You know, like the ones on
Fiona's 1965 BMW.

I always give my passenger a handful of tire spikes (https://www.google.com/search?q=tire+spikes&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a) for tail gaters.

Is there a way to tell whether or not if posters are sitting in their
underwear?

Should we erect a poll?

I took the OSU course and it was excellent. Search. Evaluate. Execute.

SEE!

Something that I use on a daily basis. However, the course doesn't
provide any information on using Q's defensive accoutrements. I found
that quite dissatisfying.

I've learned to never trust anyone in a car. Even if it's a DB5. I'm
wanting to get some rockets for my bike. You know, like the ones on
Fiona's 1965 BMW.

I always give my passenger a handful of tire spikes (https://www.google.com/search?q=tire+spikes&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a) for tail gaters.

Back in my riding days, I always used to carry some of the balls from worn out ball bearings in the lower right hand pocket of my jacket. You probably wouldn't be surprised what "hail" the size of ball bearing balls can do to a windshield or paint job at 70 mph after the idiot in the car pulled some stupid stunt in traffic that threatened my life. Sure glad that I have mellowed/*****fied since then.

I think I need to clarify that I'm on the side of the SUV Dad in the video.
I guess that's part of my pussification. aka *****fication.

P.S.(to PP^): Fully dressed, not erecting anything especially poles.
pps: that's what the japanese guy said in response to the invasion of the new world order.
think about it. or don't. whatever. =)

Ball bearings and Christmas ornaments filled with the one or the other
agent of epoxy.

I like the Christmas ornament grenade concept.
It might help remind the idiot driver in the cage of the spirit of the season.
Especially if accompanied by something along the lines of, "Merry X-mas, Mother[f'er]".
At least the commercial "christmas" rather than the Jesus version

In the spring, Easter Bunny Eggs might be more appropriate.

Plutonic Panda,
I don't understand what you are asking. Please clarify.
Thanks,
C. T.
How do you do that? I looked on the Edmond Police website and couldn't find anything. :/

Maybe it is through something else, I don't know.

PluPan, I just took the MSF "advanced" course (actually called the Experienced RiderCourse) at OSU-OKC a couple of weeks ago. I found in doing so that it is really pretty much the same as the basic course, but without bothering with the elements like how to turn the bike on, how to shift, etc. In other words, it assumes that you know those things but not much else. In fact, they are changing the name to Basic RiderCourse-2. What it is really designed to be is a basic course for scofflaws who have ridden for some time without formal training or endorsement. You do take it on your own motorcycle.

That said, I was still very glad that I took it, because of several things. First, the Basic RiderCourse I originally took was nearly a decade ago, and I found that I really needed refreshers in areas where I thought I was all good. Second, the place where I took my first MSF course just plain wasn't as good as OSU-OKC, and there were elements that just weren't covered properly, in retrospect. I had unknowingly developed bad habits based on that training (or lack thereof) that I needed to un-learn. So I was really glad I took it.

But if you take the first MSF Basic RiderCourse on the instruction bikes at OSU, you won't need the other once you get your personal bike, provided you do so within a reasonable time after your endorsement.

What you would want to come back and take on your bike would be a course called Ready To Ride, which is a FREE course that you take on your own bike. This is the course that lets you get out on their larger road course and which spends more time concentrating on avoidance and cornering techniques, etc, at speed. Unfortunately it is only available when grant money is available, and it is currently un-funded. Hopefully they will be funded again soon, as I want to take that one too.

Another alternative is private lessons by the hour given by the same instructors on the same course, at $45/hr with (IIRC) a two hour minimum. I'm thinking I want to do that, as I felt like a got a lot from these instructors and believe I could really benefit from additional one-on-one instruction.

It's easy to say after the fact what somebody should have done. I can't say for sure what I would have done because I've never been in that situation. I would like to think I would do whatever I could but in reality not sure I would get out and confront an angry mob by myself. As for the person calling me a puss*** I've found over the years the one calling others puss*** and what they would have done are usually the first to run away.I don't exactly what I would do either, but I know I would help somehow. I hope you would do the same. You're not alone if you were beside the guy in the Range Rover and if more people had this mentality, we as citizens would be better of standing up against these thugs and things like this wouldn't of happened.

For the record, anybody who sits and does nothing is a pussie(s) in my book. I hope we don't have anyone like that on this site. I like to think everyone would try and help out each other. To be clear, I'm not saying jump out into the path of a bullet here.

Plutonic Panda,
I don't understand what you are asking. Please clarify.
Thanks,
C. T.Sorry. . . . How do I enroll for the class? Do I call the non-emergency number and ask where I can take classes at or is there a specific website I can visit? I would like to take a class there, just not sure how.

A search on Google brings me citizens police academy training in Waco for some reason,

It's just another perfect example of someone is distress and not one damn person comes to their aid not even a cop he's too worried about his job then doing the right thing. Its a sad world for sure we are raisng a bunch of PUSSIES that won't stand up against wrong
Actually, that's not correct.

Hero that stepped in to stop biker beating breaks his silence | PIX 11 (http://pix11.com/2013/10/06/good-samaritan-that-stepped-in-to-stop-biker-beating-speaks/)

PluPan, I just took the MSF "advanced" course (actually called the Experienced RiderCourse) at OSU-OKC a couple of weeks ago. I found in doing so that it is really pretty much the same as the basic course, but without bothering with the elements like how to turn the bike on, how to shift, etc. In other words, it assumes that you know those things but not much else. In fact, they are changing the name to Basic RiderCourse-2. What it is really designed to be is a basic course for scofflaws who have ridden for some time without formal training or endorsement. You do take it on your own motorcycle.

That said, I was still very glad that I took it, because of several things. First, the Basic RiderCourse I originally took was nearly a decade ago, and I found that I really needed refreshers in areas where I thought I was all good. Second, the place where I took my first MSF course just plain wasn't as good as OSU-OKC, and there were elements that just weren't covered properly, in retrospect. I had unknowingly developed bad habits based on that training (or lack thereof) that I needed to un-learn. So I was really glad I took it.

But if you take the first MSF Basic RiderCourse on the instruction bikes at OSU, you won't need the other once you get your personal bike, provided you do so within a reasonable time after your endorsement.

What you would want to come back and take on your bike would be a course called Ready To Ride, which is a FREE course that you take on your own bike. This is the course that lets you get out on their larger road course and which spends more time concentrating on avoidance and cornering techniques, etc, at speed. Unfortunately it is only available when grant money is available, and it is currently un-funded. Hopefully they will be funded again soon, as I want to take that one too.

Another alternative is private lessons by the hour given by the same instructors on the same course, at $45/hr with (IIRC) a two hour minimum. I'm thinking I want to do that, as I felt like a got a lot from these instructors and believe I could really benefit from additional one-on-one instruction.Awesome!!! I'm assuming they explain how to do that in the basic training course?

It is lucky to ever have the right person be in the right place when something random happens. Earlier some people were talking about the undercover cop not acting, from the size of the group he might have not seen any of it or only made if after the situation was over. Also someone said the police reaction to the call was slow, this all escalated from the initial actions to conclusion in a few minutes, a ten minute response time is probably the best you can reasonably expect if they know where they need to go when the call comes in (it often will be longer), a call to meet up with a vehicle traveling highway speeds while the caller is distressed and possibly crossing precinct boundaries is going to add a lot of complexity to getting to them. Also for the first several minutes you do not see many any cars going the same direction. Chance is the people stopped ahead of them in the city streets would have only turned around if either heard them breaking the car windows or caught a visual in rear/side mirrors.

The Basic Rider Course is a good foundation even if you know how to ride, I know in Texas and Colorado that it satisfies the test ride portion of the motorcycle endorsement on your license and I believe it does in Oklahoma. Otherwise to get your endorsement you have to do a riding test with an officer. Not sure if it works the same way as when I got my MC license when I was 14 years old. The Advanced Rider Course is for strengthening your skills after some riding time. I don't think it satisfies the riding test requirement for the M endorsement.

It is lucky to ever have the right person be in the right place when something random happens. Earlier some people were talking about the undercover cop not acting, from the size of the group he might have not seen any of it or only made if after the situation was over. Also someone said the police reaction to the call was slow, this all escalated from the initial actions to conclusion in a few minutes, a ten minute response time is good response time for if they know where then need to go when the call comes in, a call to meet up with a vehicle traveling highway speeds while the caller is distressed and possibly crossing precinct boundaries is going to add a lot of complexity to getting to them. Also for the first several minutes you do not see hardly any cars going the same direction. Chance is the people stopped in traffic in the city streets would have only turned around if either heard them breaking the car windows or caught a visual in rear/side mirrors.Were they near Manhattan? In nearly every single picture or video feed I've seen there, there is about 2-3 police officers. They are in the middle of a huge city. There has to be cops nearby somewhere.

I would hope that one of the topics covered in the motorcycle rider courses mentioned, above, would be in the area of advising motorcycle riders not to get involved with directly and physically confronting someone driving an SUV even if said novice rider is in a gaggle of rice-burners that together sound like a swarm of angry, annoying hornets with a collective IQ of less than 1. Not even if said rider is an undercover police officer.

While The Laws of (Human) Nature may permit--and perhaps even encourage--this sort of mob stupidity, The Laws of Physics (involving mass and momentum) in addition to The Laws of Traffic Safety indicate that this is almost certainly a Lose/Lose proposition.

(i know, i know . . . you should never end a sentence in a proposition . . .)

I would hope that one of the topics covered in the motorcycle rider courses mentioned, above, would be in the area of advising motorcycle riders not to get involved with directly and physically confronting someone driving an SUV even if said novice rider is in a gaggle of rice-burners that together sound like a swarm of angry hornets. Not even if he is an undercover police officer.

While The Laws of (Human) Nature may permit--and perhaps even encourage--this sort of mob stupidity, The Laws of Physics (involving mass and momentum) in addition to The Laws of Traffic Safety indicate that this is almost certainly a Lose/Lose proposition.

(i know, i know . . . you should never end a sentence in a proposition . . .)http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/004/440/Unless_you_a_zombie.jpg

Foshizzle.

O! For The Halcyon Daze of Yesteryear . . .
ysmG_NfQVb0
(please note the advancements in helmet technology that allowed them to look like hats)

Yet (on the other hand) only a scant couple of years later it had devolved into this . . .
YswkF-d2VZ8

So I guess I mean the first Halcyon Daze rather than the other ones . . .

Motorcycles: The Devil's Bicycles.

(not to mention today's Halcyon that turns Soccer Moms in SUVs into The Driving Brain Dead)

Were they near Manhattan? In nearly every single picture or video feed I've seen there, there is about 2-3 police officers. They are in the middle of a huge city. There has to be cops nearby somewhere.

They were on then north end of manhattan island, about ten miles outside of downtown

I have always ridden (and driven) under the theory that size has the ultimate right of way. I know that many riders (motorcycle or bicycle) and pedestrians feel like testing that theory at times. I was riding yesterday on I-25 just south of downtown and had a Tacoma just merge right on into my lane when the traffic backup happened near the Santa Fe interchange construction. I had only been around him for probably 5-6 miles. I just assume that I am invisible to other drivers who are too busy doing everything but driving.

I also have felt that everyone should have to ride a motorcycle for a few years before driving a car, it can help make you hyper aware of what is going on around you....of course that wouldn't fly in our bubble wrapped world.

They were about ten miles from lower manhattanAh, well I don't know what to say. Things could've gone differently and that goes the same for saying this could've been much worse. At least the driver is alive.

When I took the Basic RiderCourse years ago, successful completion allowed you to skip the riding portion of the Oklahoma endorsement exam, but I still had to take the written (actually an on-screen computerized multiple choice) test. When I took the Experienced RiderCourse, they told the people who were there for endorsement purposes that the OSU course allowed them to skip BOTH, and that they would only need to show their certification card and ID at the DPS exam station.

Again, as I mentioned in my previous post, the Experienced RiderCourse is unfortunately named; it's not truly an "advanced" course. It is in fact being renamed "Basic RiderCourse-2". It is used by many longtime but non-endorsed riders to get their endorsement.

The thing that qualifies as an advanced course is Ready To Ride, which is a free (but currently un scheduled/unavailable) course at OSU due to funding. They expect to have news on the next round of funding soon, but since it is federally-supported the government shutdown is surely affecting this.

PluPan, you can arrange the private instruction through the OSU-OKC CSEP. I would recommend you take a regularly-scheduled Basic RiderCourse before doing anything, including buying a bike.

I have always ridden (and driven) under the theory that size has the ultimate right of way. I know that many riders (motorcycle or bicycle) and pedestrians feel like testing that theory at times. I was riding yesterday on I-25 just south of downtown and had a Tacoma just merge right on into my lane when the traffic backup happened near the Santa Fe interchange construction. I had only been around him for probably 5-6 miles. I just assume that I am invisible to other drivers who are too busy doing everything but driving.

I also have felt that everyone should have to ride a motorcycle for a few years before driving a car, it can help make you hyper aware of what is going on around you....of course that wouldn't fly in our bubble wrapped world.

I have felt that all fledgling architects should have to spend a couple of summers setting forms and framing houses . . . =)
So they can make those payments on their motorcycles later.
With some experience and a clear conscience.

Kelroy is a perfect example of the PUSSIES that have been raised. You would probably sit in the corner and suck your thumb while watching a woman getting raped.

Says the anonymous individual (you Garin) most likely reliving the event in their own head and casting themselves as 'the hero' while in reality they're just a couch crusader pointing their finger at others.

Your initial post was naive and your response to Kelroy was WAY out of line.

And I say this as someone who isn't afraid to confront dangerous situations - like disarming a violent pimp with a knife and his bottom bitc* attacking another woman (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U0eeoXf0Cs) in the street.

That said, we have no idea what played a part in the undercover officer's decision to maintain his cover. The fact he works undercover is proof enough he's probably got more 'balls' than any of us.

Being undercover he wouldn't have had a badge on him and most likely was unarmed. Exactly what was he going to do beyond blowing his cover? We don't even know how close he was to the assault. Most importantly we have no idea why he was undercover and if maintaining that cover was crucial to a much larger investigation.

The fact we know there was an undercover officer (or even several) tells us law enforcement is looking into this and most likely weighing and asking the questions similar to the ones I posted above. Which brings up another question..... why was this fact released to the media/public?

The only perspective I can honestly say I know how I would have reacted is the driver of the SUV's - I would have done exactly what he did. Beyond that, had I been another motorist on the highway or even riding a bike with that group of thugs - I have zero idea what I would or even could have done at that moment.

Not being an anonymous 'P U s S Y' I'm a pretty easy target to lash back at, so go for it....... (its pretty predictable)

CT...the motorcycle course saved my neck numerous times.

I even think non motor cycle riders should take it to learn a little empathy.

WT: Concur. Too many car and truck drivers seem to be completely oblivious to the differences of a motorcycle (or even the rights of a human-powered bike, I think).

DA: Motorcyclist had key role in NYC SUV brawl - CBS News

(http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57606248/da-motorcyclist-had-key-role-in-nyc-suv-brawl/?tag=nl.e875&s_cid=e875&ttag=e875&ftag=TRE497675b)There were off duty police riding with the bikers.


(http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57606248/da-motorcyclist-had-key-role-in-nyc-suv-brawl/?tag=nl.e875&s_cid=e875&ttag=e875&ftag=TRE497675b)