The ULI is touring this project today and posted this photo from a roof-top deck -- pretty stellar:

https://scontent-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/11033194_1072615662754313_8278348735602723238_n.jp g?oh=d675cdb148cfc8d4df303d47f3494955&oe=557047DB

From their FB page; cedar siding going up:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10502376_872306822832324_8837302829572895465_n.jpg ?oh=169effb8fdb435deb104f96ea627fd7d&oe=559CF389&__gda__=1438508259_733e73f4086ec55f33ae42c5749d6a8 b

I understand these units are all under contract now. Exterior looking nice.

Maybe they will get finished one day.

Maybe they will get finished one day.

??

Construction is still moving along at a good pace.

You must understand these smaller developments by smaller firms can't just hire a contractor with 100 laborers to put these up overnight like the mega complexes can.

A little more patience would reflect well. There is no indication that these will not be finished. And they are looking great, by the way.

Really like the project and I agree with catch22. Doing good quality work - have seen inside several times and these will be really nice when complete.

The developer has announced on Twitter that this project has sold all of the homes.

The developer has announced on Twitter that this project has sold all of the homes.

More evidence that OKC is more than ready for more for-sale units downtown.

More evidence that OKC is more than ready for more for-sale units downtown.

Agreed. Also more evidence that people who are complaining about the pace of the construction are barking at the moon. The people who purchased the units must be confident enough that they'll be finished.

I think the new housing market in downtown okc is for the upper middle class or rich. I think you could sell units all day long at $125 a square foot, but a builder would either lose money or break even.

I don't personally think they would lose money or just break-even, I just don't think they will make the profits that they know they can make building nicer.

But if it were even just $175/sq ft, I think people would be content with smaller homes.

I think there is a large market of people who would rather spend their $200k on an 1100 sq ft. home downtown than a 1800 sq ft. home in NW OKC. And if someone came and built some legitimate flats, you could probably push all the way down to 750 sq. ft. flats sold for under $150k that would be perfect "starter homes" for a lot of young individuals. And seriously, why wouldn't you buy one of those if you're young and single, or married w/o kids? If you decide you want to move to the burbs for kids, you'd have no trouble selling it or renting it out.

This is why I think despite the lull we have in announcements of residential, we're still probably going to blow up in the next 5 years downtown with residential development, though hopefully some mixed-use is thrown in there as well.

Would really like to see smaller, 3 to 5 story developments that have ground level retail/restaurant that are 50 to 100 feet wide. Not everything needs to be a $10M project. This would be a lot easier if land owners would sell rights to build to individuals on smaller parcels of land. I think a lot of people would consider dropping $500k - $1M investment on someone else's lot if they could build a place where they could live and work.

I don't personally think they would lose money or just break-even, I just don't think they will make the profits that they know they can make building nicer.


Can you do a hypothetical build including land cost where selling at a lower price per square foot is profitable? Maybe I am missing something obvious.

I actually think the house is nice. Very nice. But at 282 per sq ft... that is kinda high. Perhaps the highest in SOSA

That's a joke, right? The photos are awful and it shows the interior isn't even finished...

I actually think it is really nice. But still at 282 per sq ft... that is expensive

Was there to be a retail spot on the corner and was it eliminated?

Was there to be a retail spot on the corner and was it eliminated?

No, it's a live-work unit. I'm guessing an artist would be a good fit. But it's not a retail shell, it's directly connected to the living space above it.

But if it were even just $175/sq ft, I think people would be content with smaller homes.

I think there is a large market of people who would rather spend their $200k on an 1100 sq ft. home downtown than a 1800 sq ft. home in NW OKC. And if someone came and built some legitimate flats, you could probably push all the way down to 750 sq. ft. flats sold for under $150k that would be perfect "starter homes" for a lot of young individuals. And seriously, why wouldn't you buy one of those if you're young and single, or married w/o kids? If you decide you want to move to the burbs for kids, you'd have no trouble selling it or renting it out.

This is why I think despite the lull we have in announcements of residential, we're still probably going to blow up in the next 5 years downtown with residential development, though hopefully some mixed-use is thrown in there as well.


FWIW the Civic Condos are selling their one bedroom units at about $175-200K for 650-800 sq ft. A bit higher than your range but still less than what is going for in Deep Deuce. A good sign is they have already pre-sold 40% of the units.

Also, there is a condo for sale in my old building Harvey Lofts for 175K: Real Estate - 21 Homes For Sale | Zillow (http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/71009654_zpid/35.501941,-97.465854,35.462313,-97.549624_rect/13_zm/1_fr/?view=map)
This is actually my old neighbor...nice guy. My guess is he will likely get asking price.

I will say any hope for cheaper for sale units will probably not come in downtown or Deep Deuce but rather more fringe areas of Midtown/SoSA and points north. Its really amazing to me how little inventory there is not only in DT but the core in general. And while I love that small RE investors doing these projects, its probably going to take some larger builder who can achieve some level of economy of scale to get prices down. In a perfect world it would be great if a high quality local company like McCaleb Homes or Jeff Click Homes purchased a lot in midtown and put down a small townhouse/condo project of 8-10 units.

FWIW the Civic Condos are selling their one bedroom units at about $175-200K for 650-800 sq ft. A bit higher than your range but still less than what is going for in Deep Deuce. A good sign is they have already pre-sold 40% of the units.

Also, there is a condo for sale in my old building Harvey Lofts for 175K: Real Estate - 21 Homes For Sale | Zillow (http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/71009654_zpid/35.501941,-97.465854,35.462313,-97.549624_rect/13_zm/1_fr/?view=map)
This is actually my old neighbor...nice guy. My guess is he will likely get asking price.

I will say any hope for cheaper for sale units will probably not come in downtown or Deep Deuce but rather more fringe areas of Midtown/SoSA and points north. Its really amazing to me how little inventory there is not only in DT but the core in general. And while I love that small RE investors doing these projects, its probably going to take some larger builder who can achieve some level of economy of scale to get prices down. In a perfect world it would be great if a high quality local company like McCaleb Homes or Jeff Click Homes purchased a lot in midtown and put down a small townhouse/condo project of 8-10 units.

The problem you run into is the nicer areas north of the city are zoned HP and HP zoning carries with it an R-1 residential zoning. Also HP adds to the cost to build.

I can only think of one vacant lot that is big enough for that, in a safe area, and not zoned HP.

No, it's a live-work unit. I'm guessing an artist would be a good fit. But it's not a retail shell, it's directly connected to the living space above it.

They revised the plan some and added a full bath on the first level and walled off that back flex room for more of a private bedroom. The most awesome thing about that unit BY FAR is the rooftop in my opinion.

I think Good Lance was talking about the nearby house on 8th Street for sale at $550K at about 1950 feet rather than Lisbon. That house had had a little discussion in this topic as it is nearby. It's very cool and I like the plan a lot. Landscaping is great and deck is nice on it as well. Area is looking good with lots happening!

The problem you run into is the nicer areas north of the city are zoned HP and HP zoning carries with it an R-1 residential zoning. Also HP adds to the cost to build.

How does HP add to the cost?

I got a full tour of several of the units yesterday and I'll post photos tomorrow.

The views from the rooftop decks are simply stunning. Way better than I had thought.

The site is still a huge mess and most the units don't even have sheetrock, but you can tell all the units are going to be pretty incredible.

They are also 100% sold out.

I got a full tour of several of the units yesterday and I'll post photos tomorrow.

The views from the rooftop decks are simply stunning. Way better than I had thought.

The site is still a huge mess and most the units don't even have sheetrock, but you can tell all the units are going to be pretty incredible.

They are also 100% sold out.

Agree. I especially like the unit with the big open living area (no second floor above it). Think that is the A floorplan. Great natural light and seems spacious even though you lose the square footage that is in the live / work unit which has the ceiling for the second floor above that area. The planned finishes are very nice.

How does HP add to the cost?

They make you build with historic materials. For instance there was no vinyl in 1920 so you would have to build with wood windows. Companies that sell wood Windows cater to the upper end of the market. So for an opening of average size a vinyl window may cost $100 to $150 in materials. A wood window will cost you $450-$600.

There are other good examples but that should paint you a picture.

Here are some photos...

The skyline view is from the 3-story unit at the far west end, but it's every bit as good from all five units on the south side of the property. I suspect the view is plenty good from the two other units along the east side.



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/lisbon042115a.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/lisbon042115b.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/lisbon042115c.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/lisbon042115d.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/lisbon042115e.jpg

The problem you run into is the nicer areas north of the city are zoned HP and HP zoning carries with it an R-1 residential zoning. Also HP adds to the cost to build.

I can only think of one vacant lot that is big enough for that, in a safe area, and not zoned HP.

I would think this wouldn't be a huge problem in Midtown or SoSA. Would it be an issue in Paseo/Jeff Park area where there is a good amount of multi-family (kinda the area I meant when I said north of DT)?

And based off the projects I've seen in Houston, especially the inner loop, you'd be surprised how many townhouses you can cram on one or two lots.

They make you build with historic materials. For instance there was no vinyl in 1920 so you would have to build with wood windows. Companies that sell wood Windows cater to the upper end of the market. So for an opening of average size a vinyl window may cost $100 to $150 in materials. A wood window will cost you $450-$600.

There are other good examples but that should paint you a picture.

Not to stray too much off topic, but why would anyone buy or build a house with vinyl windows in an area that you profess to be a nicer area.

Not to stray too much off topic, but why would anyone buy or build a house with vinyl windows in an area that you profess to be a nicer area.

Sometimes people want to hit a price point. The point of the post is you can't use newer materials which are often cheaper than using older materials.

I could name 10 other area where an HP builds costs more, but I am lazy and I have proven my original point.

Most everything in the American Midwest is made out of vinyl. Most everything in the American West is made out of EIFS. Most everything in New Jersey and Florida is made out of duct tape.

It's all the same...

Sometimes people want to hit a price point. The point of the post is you can't use newer materials which are often cheaper than using older materials.

I guess hardi board and vinyl clad wood windows aren't newer materials? They're allowed.

It looks like the HP ordinance, at least with regard to new infill construction, is just written to prevent the construction use of incredibly cheap stuff; EIFS and vinyl windows to name a few.

^ Right. Vinyl windows are the biggest no-no. EIFS is just so beyond the pale I don't think I've ever seen that outside of OKC. Hardi board is easily not the worst, so it's usually considered decent.

I guess hardi board and vinyl clad wood windows aren't newer materials? They're allowed.

It looks like the HP ordinance, at least with regard to new infill construction, is just written to prevent the construction use of incredibly cheap stuff; EIFS and vinyl windows to name a few.

Bill you seem to be smarter than the average bear. We should meet in person sometime. I was giving some examples the general population could understand, not everyone knows what hardiplank is and why it is allowed.

If you had read all 300 pages or so of the HP rules you would realize that there is additional cost for building the exact same home in HP vs say Edmond.

If you need further proof call Caleb Mccaleb of McCaleb homes and ask him about about his direct cost to build in HP vs Edmond.

Edit: just a quick note, vinylbclad wood windows general cost more than just wood windows unless you catch a sell.

Some good pictures on Mode Development's Instagram page: https://instagram.com/modedevelop/

Can't believe this project still isn't close to done.

Can't believe this project still isn't close to done.

Agreed. Wonder what the delay has been?

Working on site, the project is accelerating. Sheetrock is actually going up in the final two units on Monday. The first five units are rocked and painted with finishes going in.

They have had some major utility issues that were resolved and contributed to the delay. The excavation on site has been enormous.

I think that they want to do the job right and it is simply taking longer.

U.P. showed me around there yesterday and they are doing all the final finishes and people should be moving in next month or shortly thereafter.

Looks really impressive in person and the interior finishes are super sharp.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/lisbon092415a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/lisbon092415b.jpg

These are fantastic...probably one of the few projects that looks better than its rendering.

Since these are sold out, are the developers considering another phase?

Although slow, they look awesome. The glass garage doors are nice, but not sure how I feel about everyone being able to see my stuff in there!

They do look great. The delay has been pretty lengthy and have heard they have a few very grumpy "owners". But in the end I'm sure they will be very happy with how this turns out.

I have heard they are planning another project which may be similar but at a lower price point with no garages (covered parking of some sort).

All these projects get delayed and people are only grumpy until they get moved in.

The finished product is going to be impressive.

Although slow, they look awesome. The glass garage doors are nice, but not sure how I feel about everyone being able to see my stuff in there!

The glass is opaque.

They do look great. The delay has been pretty lengthy and have heard they have a few very grumpy "owners". But in the end I'm sure they will be very happy with how this turns out.

I have heard they are planning another project which may be similar but at a lower price point with no garages (covered parking of some sort).


"Grumpy"

When not one, but two deadlines are missed I think that is rightfully upsetting. When the third "padded" deadline that will be impossible to miss goes to the wayside that is unacceptable. You have people selling their homes based on these assurances. Now you must scramble to find temporary housing.

All the while the head of the project is a complete no show and seems to only reply with snarky sarcasm when people expect minimal results and accountability. "grumpy" seems appropriate I would say. FYI they are now 8 months behind the first estimate they gave the original pre buyers.

All these projects get delayed and people are only grumpy until they get moved in.

The finished product is going to be impressive.

Are they usually delayed 8 months. Is it common for assurances to be made and not met requiring significant inconvenience and monetary losses when it comes to acquiring temporary housing when assurances are not met?

Is it ok to be grumpy when the brains of the project rarely sees it or communicates with the buyers?

"Grumpy"

When not one, but two deadlines are missed I think that is rightfully upsetting. When the third "padded" deadline that will be impossible to miss goes to the wayside that is unacceptable. You have people selling their homes based on these assurances. Now you must scramble to find temporary housing.

All the while the head of the project is a complete no show and seems to only reply with snarky sarcasm when people expect minimal results and accountability. "grumpy" seems appropriate I would say. FYI they are now 8 months behind the first estimate they gave the original pre buyers.

My term was not meant to lessen or diminish your situation. Im sorry if you took it that way. I am aware of the problems and situation so yes, you have the right to be very upset. I hope it gets done soon and things work out well in the long run.

When you are talking about someone's home, these things take on a whole new light versus just a commercial project.

I'm in the process of selling my house and the uncertainty and delays have been one of the most stressful things I've ever gone through.

You can be somewhat understanding of what downtown developers face and also be sympathetic to people who are stuck in long-term limbo as a result.

I'm in the process of selling my house and the uncertainty and delays have been one of the most stressful things I've ever gone through.

Moving back to OKC? ;)

When you are talking about someone's home, these things take on a whole new light versus just a commercial project.

I'm in the process of selling my house and the uncertainty and delays have been one of the most stressful things I've ever gone through.

You can be somewhat understanding of what downtown developers face and also be sympathetic to people who are stuck in long-term limbo as a result.

Housing issues are WAY up there on the stress scale. We have bought houses, built houses, and sometimes it's pretty smooth and other times it's not good at all and the "stuff" just seems to snowball when it goes bad.

Big change is hard enough but when you add constant uncertainty to the mix, things get infinitely more stressful.

It's hard to live you life when so much is in the air.

In terms of the project as it stands now - what is the expected time for completion and move in?

Guys, can we put this to bed? It's a sore subject, and while an unfortunate inaugural conversation, I'm sure LisbonLofter can/will provide quality commentary in other threads if s/he chooses to stay, but so far, it's not been a great environment.

Where are you moving from LisbonLofter?

I deleted a ton of posts from this thread; should have done it when things started to take a bad turn.

Let's please get back to the subject and be respectful to each other.

Guys, can we put this to bed? It's a sore subject, and while an unfortunate inaugural conversation, I'm sure LisbonLofter can/will provide quality commentary in other threads if s/he chooses to stay, but so far, it's not been a great environment.

Where are you moving from LisbonLofter?

Oklahoma City. Been here a little over 5 years.

In terms of the project as it stands now - what is the expected time for completion and move in?

October 23rd. Seems like a lot left to do in three weeks, but they say it will happen.

Oklahoma City. Been here a little over 5 years.

Ahh…I meant what part of town? It's always interesting to find out if people that are moving downtown are doing so from closer in or further out.

Originally NW OKC. No renting a place on the Edmond/OKC border waiting to move in.

Downtown Houston prior to that.

Downtown Houston prior to that.

Well, I'm 5 years late on this, but welcome to Oklahoma City! I hope all goes well at Lisbon.

Well, I'm 5 years late on this, but welcome to Oklahoma City! I hope all goes well at Lisbon.

I'm late to the party as well, but the skyline looks great from that rooftop deck. And the view should only improve in the next few years.

Looks like the odds of missing another deadline are high. I use to joke that we would have a Christmas/House warming party last spring....doesn't seem like a joke anymore.