Scorecards was grandfathered into the Plaza zoning laws. That is how they get away with only being a bar and not serving food.

No.

The best place for that would be the area between Broadway/9th/Oklahoma/6th. Relatively little car traffic, close to OKC's densest neighborhoods (Midtown/Deep Deuce), and good mix of existing building stock to give the area character but still empty lots to bring in some fresh life as well.

There's too much vehicular traffic on 23rd, IMO.

23rd would do best if it had a great music venue in the Tower Theater development that could frequently draw people in from all over the metro and keep the area hopping on a predictable schedule.

The Tower Theater is the key to 23rd St. Without its revitalization I don't see 23rd ever reaching full potential. Improving yes but not becoming everything it could be.

Building a true bar district may be difficult in OKC not only because of the culture but how difficult it is to get that kind of liquor license. Plus, it seems like restaurant/bars are the rage right now and pure bars are not. This is evidenced by the owner of JDM Place wanting a restaurant rather than another bar to replace Skyy Bar. It makes sense as bars have a very narrow customer base while a restaurant has a much larger base. If a bar district were to develop in OKC, my bets are midtown or 23rd but I see both of those as being ultimately an uphill battle. From my perspective, a bar district can have restaurants but still has plenty of bars. If it's all restaurant/bars it's not a bar district.

Isnt there a bar on that side street towards the west end of the plaza, Scorecards or something? Does that place serve food? Or maybe its not officially considered part of the plaza?

They also don't serve liquor. Only 3.2 beer.

The Tower Theater is the key to 23rd St. Without its revitalization I don't see 23rd ever reaching full potential. Improving yes but not becoming everything it could be.

Building a true bar district may be difficult in OKC not only because of the culture but how difficult it is to get that kind of liquor license. Plus, it seems like restaurant/bars are the rage right now and pure bars are not. This is evidenced by the owner of JDM Place wanting a restaurant rather than another bar to replace Skyy Bar. It makes sense as bars have a very narrow customer base while a restaurant has a much larger base. If a bar district were to develop in OKC, my bets are midtown or 23rd but I see both of those as being ultimately an uphill battle. From my perspective, a bar district can have restaurants but still has plenty of bars. If it's all restaurant/bars it's not a bar district.

Are Tulsa's laws and culture that much different from OKC? What about every other major city in the U.S., including regional ones like KC?

Are Tulsa's laws and culture that much different from OKC? What about every other major city in the U.S., including regional ones like KC?

Is it possible that Tulsa's urban university has made it more favorable for vibrant bar districts than OKC? I really can't think of any other reason why they are so far ahead in that area. Kansas City is so much larger it really is an entirely different ballgame.

Are Tulsa's laws and culture that much different from OKC? What about every other major city in the U.S., including regional ones like KC?

No offense, but you are completely discounting Bricktown. Just because it doesn't have the bars that YOU like doesn't make it any less a "bar district."

Scorecards in Plaza is a 3.2 beer bar. No mixed beverage license, no strong beer, no liquor, no wine.

Really if the "restaurants" have a large bar, are open till two and are located walk-ably close to each other in an urban or somewhat urban setting, who the hell cares what they're considered. To me, a bar district is any area with walkable mix of restaurant/bars and bars that are open till two. I would much rather have districts full of restaurants that operate as bars at night so that they are not completely dead and not causing the street/sidewalk life around them to be completely dead during most of the day. If you all are stuck on that definition of a bar district, I don't want one in midtown, AA, or Uptown.

All of those districts mentioned in Tulsa are primarily composed of restaurants that double as bars or bars that double as restaurants. Under your definition of a bar district, none of them would be considered true bar districts, especially if you don't consider Bricktown one. Same goes for uptown in Dallas, midtown and Montrose in Houston, any district in Ft. Worth, Bourbon Street in NO, and LoDo in Denver. The only true bar district I can think of under that definition is 6th Street in Austin and even that has several restaurants sprinkled in.

The Tower Theater is the key to 23rd St. Without its revitalization I don't see 23rd ever reaching full potential. Improving yes but not becoming everything it could be.

Building a true bar district may be difficult in OKC not only because of the culture but how difficult it is to get that kind of liquor license. Plus, it seems like restaurant/bars are the rage right now and pure bars are not. This is evidenced by the owner of JDM Place wanting a restaurant rather than another bar to replace Skyy Bar. It makes sense as bars have a very narrow customer base while a restaurant has a much larger base. If a bar district were to develop in OKC, my bets are midtown or 23rd but I see both of those as being ultimately an uphill battle. From my perspective, a bar district can have restaurants but still has plenty of bars. If it's all restaurant/bars it's not a bar district.

I think it's somewhat narrow-minded to say that the success of the whole Uptown District relies on one venue. It would be great if someone turned the Tower Theater into something awesome, but if it doesn't happen for awhile, it isn't the end of the world (though incredibly frustrating, how Dillon can't find a way to finance this thing is beyond me). Its success does however depend on the development of that block. The Tower block is massive and with an exception of 23rd street body piercing, completely vacant. If the majority of those store fronts are filled, the rise and everything behind it takes off, the other store fronts on 23rd are leased to solid retail/restaurants/bars, and some of the empty lots are developed, I don't know how you could consider the district anything other than a major success even without the Tower Theater being redeveloped. The Tower Theater would be a valuable asset as an Anchor for Uptown, but the district's success doesn't completely hinge on it.

Is it possible that Tulsa's urban university has made it more favorable for vibrant bar districts than OKC? I really can't think of any other reason why they are so far ahead in that area. Kansas City is so much larger it really is an entirely different ballgame.

I have never been to Tulsa so I can't comment on that, but all the "bar districts" in KC are not full of only bars. The majority of them are restaurants or bar and grills that turn into bars at night. Even in a place like P&L most of the places are open during the day and serve food.

I agree with PhiAlpha, there aren't really any "bar districts" in other cities that are strictly bars only, and I would prefer it that way as well. Even all the bars in Lawrence, down on Mass St., are all bars/grills that have a half that stays open during the day and serves food.

I don't care about the restaurant component of it. The restaurant component can be there or not be there as far as I'm concerned.

What is imperative is that the district be a relatively small area capable of shutting down the streets to vehicular traffic so that hundreds of people can move freely from one bar to another without any real threat of being hit by a car. Even though nobody wants to put it this way, we're essentially talking about a drunk zone…especially on Fridays and Saturdays.

And with S&B, Iguana, Hillbilly's, and now Peloton, that area east of Broadway represents the best possible area in OKC (and it is really not even close) for a district that is all about the people coming out to spend money on booze and maybe find some other tertiary entertainment (piano bar, live band, dancing, hook-ups).

The reason this works better than anywhere else is because it's concentrated, the roads are in low demand outside of the specific purpose of getting to these destinations, and the district doesn't need to serve any other purpose.

And, again, this will essentially be the center point between Deep Deuce and Midtown, and the Metropolitan is right there, and it has much better access to the rest of the city (via 235) than any of these other areas, save for 23rd.

And maybe the most important of all points, it will likely sit right on a stop on the future N/S Commuter line. I could see tons of Edmond and Norman people coming on the weekends via Rail, drinking it up, and going home…and all that with far less drunk driving than if they drive up here, drink it up only a little less, and then drive 20 miles home.

Back to the Rise…I really would like to see more than 1 Retail tenant.

This area, I think, would do well with non-big name trendy type retail type places. There's a shop I go to when I'm in Houston (Montrose) called "Duo" https://www.facebook.com/DuOhouston

I got some pretty slick jeans there in 2012 on close-out for $10…I mean…it's hard to find $10 jeans at Wal-Mart, let alone a fairly fashionable store.

It's right across from a pretty cool coffee shop called Brasil.

I don't care about the restaurant component of it. The restaurant component can be there or not be there as far as I'm concerned.

What is imperative is that the district be a relatively small area capable of shutting down the streets to vehicular traffic so that hundreds of people can move freely from one bar to another without any real threat of being hit by a car. Even though nobody wants to put it this way, we're essentially talking about a drunk zone…especially on Fridays and Saturdays. Norman people coming on the weekends via Rail, drinking it up, and going home…and all that with far less drunk driving than if they drive up here, drink it up only a little less, and then drive 20 miles home.

Sounds like you want Bourbon Street to move to OKC. :)

More than wanting a Bourbon street, I want to make the best use of the resources available and how they are laid out.

23rd is just not constructed to be a late-night district. It has a lot of things it can do, but it's not particularly walkable and never will be even with improvements. A mile is a long stretch of road and our city will not be dense enough in the next 10 to 20 years to merit trying to turn an area of a mile into our (premiere) "bar district" (whatever that is according to any given person). It's a district that would do best with an eclectic variety of unique food and retail options for the surrounding neighborhoods, and because of how relatively accessible it is, would be smashing success with a very specific entertainment draw that would inject the district with more life during said entertainment events.

If 23rd becomes almost entirely restaurant/bar, then its viability is tied to an industry whose ups and downs and turnover are a far greater risk than I think we should be striving to lay as the foundation of our urban districts. Of course 23rd will be a resounding success over the next 3 to 6 years. But what about 7 to 15?

Tons of bars in the Brady District, for example, are primarily considered bars. That's kind of the threshold. While there are exceptions, most places that are considered food places first are not usually the most popular bars. No one said a district must be ONLY bars, but it should have a large number of choices. OKC only has Bricktown, while cities like Tulsa have multiple districts that fit the bill. I really think OKC is going to get there and 23rd is the next spot, but it's not there yet.

Tons of bars in the Brady District, for example, are primarily considered bars. That's kind of the threshold. While there are exceptions, most places that are considered food places first are not usually the most popular bars. No one said a district must be ONLY bars, but it should have a large number of choices. OKC only has Bricktown, while cities like Tulsa have multiple districts that fit the bill. I really think OKC is going to get there and 23rd is the next spot, but it's not there yet.

Bricktown in itself is much larger than anything in Tulsa and does more volume than anything in Tulsa could dream of thanks to tourists, the Thunder, etc, even though it lacks the "hip" factor in many ways Tulsa's districts have. You also have to look at why that is and why Tulsa's districts are more hipster. Bricktown caters primarily to blue collar, rural Oklahoma while districts like Brady and Blue Dome cater primarily to college students and young professionals. If OU or even UCO was closer to downtown it's almost certain OKC would have more vibrant, hip districts by now. OKC's districts will gradually build up as more and more young professionals call downtown home. A light rail line between downtown and Norman would do wonders for nightlife in downtown OKC in my opinion.

I think it's somewhat narrow-minded to say that the success of the whole Uptown District relies on one venue. It would be great if someone turned the Tower Theater into something awesome, but if it doesn't happen for awhile, it isn't the end of the world (though incredibly frustrating, how Dillon can't find a way to finance this thing is beyond me). Its success does however depend on the development of that block. The Tower block is massive and with an exception of 23rd street body piercing, completely vacant. If the majority of those store fronts are filled, the rise and everything behind it takes off, the other store fronts on 23rd are leased to solid retail/restaurants/bars, and some of the empty lots are developed, I don't know how you could consider the district anything other than a major success even without the Tower Theater being redeveloped. The Tower Theater would be a valuable asset as an Anchor for Uptown, but the district's success doesn't completely hinge on it.

It could still be a success without the Tower Theater no doubt, but it will not reach its potential. The Tower Theater is such a large centerpiece of the 23rd St district that if it remains boarded up it will be a blight on the area. The preferred use for it would be as a music venue, but if that can't be done, maybe as a indie movie theater like Circle Cinema. Finding some use for it, even as a restaurant or club, would be better than letting it rot and would bring the district together.

There is nothing magical about Tower Theater. It seems to be an emotional issue with some though. If it is left in disrepair and undeveloped it will hurt development of 23rd. But the same can be said for many, many locations all along 23rd. I would argue The Rise is going to prove to be way more important because of its size and corner visibility.

Like the Will Rogers theater on Western, the Tower Theater is a highly-visible building and will accelerate development in the area if it is renovated and occupied. But for now it is a hindrance to development. I hope that Dillard is keeping it in repair. We looked at buying the Will Rogers Theater years ago before Bob Sullivan bought it, and the roof had failed, and it was at risk of being destroyed by the elements. Credit goes to Bob for saving it, which I believe has played a crucial role in the resurgence of Western Avenue in the 40s.

Dillard obviously won't be the guy to do the same thing on 23rd Street, so I hope that he's preserving the building for the person who ultimately will.

Retailers flocking to The Rise at NW 23 and Walker in Oklahoma City | News OK (http://newsok.com/retailers-flocking-to-the-rise-at-nw-23-and-walker-in-oklahoma-city/article/3904447)


In a few months, residents of historic neighborhoods along Uptown 23rd can enjoy the choice of walking down the street to grab a fresh bagel, shop for clothing, enjoy a cigar and a glass of whiskey or a cup of tea if they plan on getting a tan and working out during their excursion.


A year after starting work on converting a rundown strip shopping center into an upscale retail destination, Johnathan Russell is celebrating his success at assembling a list of tenants that matched his early ambitions for The Rise at NW 23 and Walker.

It seems a good mix of establishments except for At The Beach. They don't seem to keep their stores up and have a cheap, strip mall feel. Maybe I'm wrong.

This area is about to become very popular.

Eh, yeah. Not crazy about At the Beach.

And an Oyster Bar doesn't sound like a "seafood" restaurant. Thought we were getting an upscale seafood restaurant finally. Oh well.

A Closer Look at The Rise | News OK (http://newsok.com/a-closer-look-at-the-rise/article/3904574)

I'm anxious to hear about what Dillon plans to do with the theater.

A Closer Look at The Rise | News OK (http://newsok.com/a-closer-look-at-the-rise/article/3904574)

I wonder what is meant by "Dillon is ready to start work". Excited to see some of the exterior modifications start on The Rise and curious how At the Beach managed to get in on this.

And an Oyster Bar doesn't sound like a "seafood" restaurant. Thought we were getting an upscale seafood restaurant finally. Oh well.

I'm also curious about this.

And an Oyster Bar doesn't sound like a "seafood" restaurant. Thought we were getting an upscale seafood restaurant finally. Oh well.

That was my reaction as well. And "The Drake?" Meh. Sorry, didn't want to come across like Debby Downer, but an oyster house is something we already have in OKC. Maybe there will be other seafood options on the menu. Please, please, just don't be another Cajun joint.

And an Oyster Bar doesn't sound like a "seafood" restaurant. Thought we were getting an upscale seafood restaurant finally. Oh well.

I agree. That sounds like more of what we already have, the Cajun/fried variety. It will be a huge fail if that's what it ends up being.

Tulsa and Wichita are no closer to the coasts than OKC is so you can't blame the lack of a single decent seafood restaurant here on being landlocked.

I don't know why everyone is so worried about the oyster bar. It will have other seafood options. Every Good Egg endeavor has already been done, but in my opinion they always do it better (or at least different).

I am excited about the Oyster Bar. I am sure it will be top notch and have a local twist on an Oyster Bar. Good Egg has a high standard and I don't see it being any different.

I don't know why everyone is so worried about the oyster bar. It will have other seafood options. Every Good Egg endeavor has already been done, but in my opinion they always do it better (or at least different).

The concern is not with the purveyor. Expectations were that there was going to be a seafood restaurant, a genre that in OKC is shockingly absent given how large of a city this is. A lot of people got excited about that notion. An oyster bar doesn't really fit the bill for that.

I agree. That sounds like more of what we already have, the Cajun/fried variety. It will be a huge fail if that's what it ends up being.

Even if that's what it ends up being, the fact that Good Egg is doing it will keep it from being "a huge fail"

What is the Rant north of The Drake?

If no one else is doing seafood right, then why don't you guys all get together and start up the perfect place?

"The Rant" font looks a little Affliction-esque.

The concern is not with the purveyor. Expectations were that there was going to be a seafood restaurant, a genre that in OKC is shockingly absent given how large of a city this is. A lot of people got excited about that notion. An oyster bar doesn't really fit the bill for that.

Why were all of you expecting an upscale seafood restaurant?

I don't know why everyone is so worried about the oyster bar. It will have other seafood options. Every Good Egg endeavor has already been done, but in my opinion they always do it better (or at least different).

I am sure it will be top notch for an oyster bar and a great addition to OKC's restaurant scene. The issue though is that it is mindnumbing that a city the size of OKC doesn't have a single decent seafood restaurant and a lot of people were getting excited for that to change. It's a disappointment that it may end up being another cajun/fried seafood restaurant which are already numerous here.

I would be bummed too if it was a deep-fried cajun seafood place. I just don't see it happening.

Based on Tuck's interactions with posts on this subject, I don't expect it to be fried/Cajun. And "oyster bar" =/= Cajun, anyway, though obviously oysters figure heavily into that specific cuisine. Also, not all great seafood is pricey. All over the world some of the best seafood is peasant food.

I would say for the time being we should probably just put away the pitchforks and torches, then wait and see what's on the menu before burning down the place in effigy online.

"The Rant" font looks a little Affliction-esque.

I think you mean The Rise? LOL, But yeah, I commented on the weird script font earlier on this thread.

You guys obviously have never been here before if you're disappointed in an oyster bar concept and think it won't be seafood. Stop whining.

New York's Freshest Oysters & Seafood | (http://www.oysterbarny.com/)

You guys obviously have never been here before if you're disappointed in an oyster bar concept and think it won't be seafood. Stop whining.

New York's Freshest Oysters & Seafood | (http://www.oysterbarny.com/)

This looks awesome. So is this the concept that GEG is going for?

I think you mean The Rise? LOL, But yeah, I commented on the weird script font earlier on this thread.

In the drawing (http://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/r620-903b5603d3100fbac7ac5da38e3eb2f4.jpg) there is a place called "RANT", which is what I think he's referring to.

That was my reaction as well. And "The Drake?" Meh. Sorry, didn't want to come across like Debby Downer, but an oyster house is something we already have in OKC. Maybe there will be other seafood options on the menu. Please, please, just don't be another Cajun joint.

1. Oyster bar does not in any way mean that it will be Cajun

2. We do not have a real oyster bar in Okc

I think you mean The Rise? LOL, But yeah, I commented on the weird script font earlier on this thread.

Well, The Rise font isn't so great but the Rant font in this is what I was referring to.

A Closer Look at The Rise | News OK (http://newsok.com/a-closer-look-at-the-rise/article/3904574)

Is this is mens clothing store?

I am really excited about this development. I don't want to pick the place apart. I think its great! Much better than a ever-going-out-of-business hotel liquidation store.

You guys obviously have never been here before if you're disappointed in an oyster bar concept and think it won't be seafood. Stop whining.

New York's Freshest Oysters & Seafood | (http://www.oysterbarny.com/)

Like...Christ, the premature whining bug is again alive and well in another thread. YOU'VE HEARD NOTHING MORE THAN THE NAME...THEY HAVEN'T EVEN RELEASED A FREAKING MENU YET...CHHHHHHHHHILLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

And BChris...Tulsa and Wichita are no more than 2 hours away, make a trip and enjoy their "fine" seafood.

Like...Christ, the premature whining bug is again alive and well in another thread. YOU'VE HEARD NOTHING MORE THAN THE NAME...THEY HAVEN'T EVEN RELEASED A FREAKING MENU YET...CHHHHHHHHHILLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

And BChris...Tulsa and Wichita are no more than 2 hours away, make a trip and enjoy their "fine" seafood.

+1

Well, The Rise font isn't so great but the Rant font in this is what I was referring to.

A Closer Look at The Rise | News OK (http://newsok.com/a-closer-look-at-the-rise/article/3904574)

Is this is mens clothing store?

Aha.

I agree. That sounds like more of what we already have, the Cajun/fried variety. It will be a huge fail if that's what it ends up being.


Why does it sound like that? What indication did the story give you that it would be "cajun" in any way?

This looks awesome. So is this the concept that GEG is going for?

I don't know. No one probably knows but Heather and Keith. For gosh sake, that was just an example of an oyster bar. I certainly don't want to add to the crazed expectations.

Our seafood concept WILL NOT be Cajun influenced. We will be offering different oysters from the Atlantic and Pacific coasts. That's just a component...90% of the menu will be fresh seafood with very little of it fried. Everyone cool? :)

Our seafood concept WILL NOT be Cajun influenced. We will be offering different oysters from the Atlantic and Pacific coasts. That's just a component...90% of the menu will be fresh seafood with very little of it fried. Everyone cool? :)

Great news! Can't wait!

Tuck decided to chime in and soothe the frenzied masses!

Where did the inspiration for the "Drake" come from?

Our seafood concept WILL NOT be Cajun influenced. We will be offering different oysters from the Atlantic and Pacific coasts. That's just a component...90% of the menu will be fresh seafood with very little of it fried. Everyone cool? :)

:cool:

Now that Tuck has provided more info on The Drake, here are more details on some of the other tenants:

http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/urban-development-buildings/5024d1384449033-rise-w640-903b5603d3100fbac7ac5da38e3eb2f4-1-.jpg

1. The pizza place will be called Pizzeria Gusto
2. Interior Gilt is the name of the home furnishing store: Home (http://www.interiorgilt.com/)
3. I believe Rant is the name of the clothing store and Red Square Apparel is the legal name. Heard it will be similar to Gil's with upscale jeans and casual clothing.
4. UrbanCore Pilates has an existing location at 9612 N. May: URBAN CORE OKLAHOMA CITY (http://www.urbancoreokc.com/)
5. Anytime Fitness is a national 24-hour chain with about a dozen (all suburban) OKC locations: 24 Hour Gyms - Fitness Centers - Health Clubs | Anytime Fitness (http://anytimefitness.com/)
6. Old School Bagel is an OK mini-chain with locations in Leadership Square, far north OKC and 2 in Edmond: OSB Old School Bagel (http://www.oldschoolbagelcafe.com/Home_Page.html)
7. t, an Urban Teahouse has another location on N. May: t, an urban teahouse (http://urban-teahouse.com/T_Urban_Teahouse/Home.html)
8. At the Beach Tanning is a national chain with several OKC locations: At The Beach - Home - At the Beach Tanning - Tanning Salon Superstore! - Indoor Spray Tan & Tanning Beds - Get Your Tan On (http://atbtanning.com/)
9. Fedora Cigar Lounge will include the rooftop deck above Rant

There is one other signed tenant not mentioned: The Okay See Clothing Company (http://www.theokaysee.com/). They will feature an apparel line of city specific shirts, as well as goods from other local artists and creatives. Will also function as a screen printing business with a press in the shop. This will be directly east of FlashBack and have some of their space underground.

Why does it sound like that? What indication did the story give you that it would be "cajun" in any way?

Others were saying it might be but it has been cleared up that it will not be cajun so great news.

9. Fedora Cigar Lounge will include the rooftop deck above Rant.

Any other word on specifics about patio and/or rooftop seating at the other places?

Great stuff Pete, thank you. So very very excited about this. All of this, a 7 minute walk from my front door.

Now if only I could cross 23rd without getting clipped... :)