Americans have an unhealthy obsession with sports.

Yay, isn't it fun to constantly state what everyone else's position is, while ignoring the real statements and positions they brought up?

Evidently, if someone isn't 100% for privatization of sports, they don't pass the "right" enough test.

However, there are still the multiple issues which folks keep glossing over.

1) The article talks about "cost" for sports vs other subjects. But that's not the same as "budget". Again, while this may not be 100% everywhere, I can tell you that locally most sports and extra curricular activities (band, cheer, etc) are predominately self funded. Between boosters, fund raisers (hence, you seeing the football players doing car washes), activity fees, gate admissions, and vending machine sales all generate income to cover those costs. I'm involved in several booster orgs, so I can actually speak from personal knowledge on this. Even if we need a bus for a game, we're paying for the bus time, the gas, the driver, etc. Now the typical parent/student won't see that cost, unless their active and involved in the boosters, so it seems like a magic funding fairy from the district covered the cost. But chances are, if you got free athletic shoes in school, you just were one of the non-involved families.

2) There's the intangible benefits to school sports. Sure, there may be the weird example of where cutting sports saved a school, but historically it's been the opposite. Underfunded or non-existent sport programs have been symptoms of failing/failed school systems. 30 years ago the movement was to go into failing systems and restore team sports, which improved school spirit, attendance, and graduation rates. It also makes it more likely that a city/district will approve school bond votes when they also share the "school spirit".

As for all the jokes/comments about dumb jocks, well, those reflect more on the person making the statement than anything, and reveal the prejudice of some former high school loser with resentment issues. Are there dumb jocks? Sure. But just as many smart ones. I've found the makeup of the teams pretty much reflect the general school population. In fact, if you look at the honor societies, the salutatorians, and valedictorians, you'll see quite a few athletes. Especially the team leader positions, such as QBs. Folks who are driven enough to rise to those type of positions tend to put that work ethic into everything they do. I was in all the AP classes in high school, and shared them with many, many, football players.

Yeah, there was one basketball player I went to school with who was dumb as a brick. But he was dumb before basketball, and being on the team gave him incentive to maintain academic eligibility, and he ended up going into college (not on a sports scholarship) so obviously the school system didn't fail him.

As for Tea Party certifications, there's a difference between being against wasteful spending and being against ALL spending. This is as dumb as anti TP folks saying that we don't want roads or fire stations or police.

All we are talking about here is moving sports from the education budget to the parent's budget. I thought that was what the Tea Party was all about, but I'll be damned if every self identified right-winger other than myself keeps supporting the public funding of sports within the school budget. Maybe I don't belong in the Tea Party after all, or more likely, maybe we have bunch of people who misidentified themselves.

And, again, it ignores the facts that the parents ARE paying for it in tax dollars or out of their own pocket. Moore Schools just built a new press box for the district's football stadium used by three schools with proceeds from a publicly voted bond issue that overwhelmingly passed. Combine that with the fact that virtually every significant sports team operates from the funds generated by parent-operated booster organizations that work their tails off to raise funds and it really provides some facts to disabuse this notion that athletics is taking all the money away from the education department.

I know of one high school that just last year bought new uniforms for their schools team - and not one penny came from taxpayer pockets. It was entirely funded by the parent booster organization through membership drives, fund raisers, car washes, discount card sales, you name it.

I think, too, that its important to point out that only competitive athletics draws this reflexive indignance from the chronically myopic. Its curious that competitive choral singing, mock trials, debate, journalism, music (to name only a few) all are coming out of taxpayer pockets, but that never seems to draw the ire of the Perpetually Indignant - and I guess that's directly because of the shortsightedness that believes education can only come out of some sort of a textbook.

And, again, it ignores the facts that the parents ARE paying for it in tax dollars or out of their own pocket. Moore Schools just built a new press box for the district's football stadium used by three schools with proceeds from a publicly voted bond issue that overwhelmingly passed. Combine that with the fact that virtually every significant sports team operates from the funds generated by parent-operated booster organizations that work their tails off to raise funds and it really provides some facts to disabuse this notion that athletics is taking all the money away from the education department.

I know of one high school that just last year bought new uniforms for their schools team - and not one penny came from taxpayer pockets. It was entirely funded by the parent booster organization through membership drives, fund raisers, car washes, discount card sales, you name it.

I think, too, that its important to point out that only competitive athletics draws this reflexive indignance from the chronically myopic. Its curious that competitive choral singing, mock trials, debate, journalism, music (to name only a few) all are coming out of taxpayer pockets, but that never seems to draw the ire of the Perpetually Indignant - and I guess that's directly because of the shortsightedness that believes education can only come out of some sort of a textbook.

Precisely. Depending upon whose ox is being gored is determined by who is carping.

And, again, it ignores the facts that the parents ARE paying for it in tax dollars or out of their own pocket. Moore Schools just built a new press box for the district's football stadium used by three schools with proceeds from a publicly voted bond issue that overwhelmingly passed. Combine that with the fact that virtually every significant sports team operates from the funds generated by parent-operated booster organizations that work their tails off to raise funds and it really provides some facts to disabuse this notion that athletics is taking all the money away from the education department.

I know of one high school that just last year bought new uniforms for their schools team - and not one penny came from taxpayer pockets. It was entirely funded by the parent booster organization through membership drives, fund raisers, car washes, discount card sales, you name it.

I think, too, that its important to point out that only competitive athletics draws this reflexive indignance from the chronically myopic. Its curious that competitive choral singing, mock trials, debate, journalism, music (to name only a few) all are coming out of taxpayer pockets, but that never seems to draw the ire of the Perpetually Indignant - and I guess that's directly because of the shortsightedness that believes education can only come out of some sort of a textbook.

THIS! I'm more than willing to concede that discussions need to be had. There are fixes that need to be made to education. And do some schools go overboard and place to much emphasis on sports? Certainly. But it's not a zero sum game, and making sports into a boogie man that will suddenly solve all of the problems (if eliminated) is beyond simplistic.

All we are talking about here is moving sports from the education budget to the parent's budget. I thought that was what the Tea Party was all about, but I'll be damned if every self identified right-winger other than myself keeps supporting the public funding of sports within the school budget. Maybe I don't belong in the Tea Party after all, or more likely, maybe we have bunch of people who misidentified themselves.

Very few of us are pure teaparty movement, pure liberal agenda or stanuch conservative. All of these groups have merit and ideas which appeal to us all; whether we are willing to admit it or not.

You are so correct JTF; there are those who have misidentified themselves and jump on every bandwagon or movement that seems appealing. I'll give it up to you; some districts have placed way too much emphasis on competitive athletics.

Right now I see two main schools of thought dominating our education system in our society.

1. Here is my kid teach him while I work and play.

2. The schools have are not teaching my kids they way I think they need to be taught therefore, I am home schooling or I am sending them to private school.

The education system I grew up in had a balance of parent and teacher interaction. My parents and my teachers work together to hold me accountable for my actions. When they disagreed they handled without me in the audience. I was never allowed to argue with my teachers. However, I was encouraged to ask honest questions and seek answers to those honest questions. The only time my parents sided against my teachers is when they did not permit honest questions in the classroom. People forget you need to be involved in your child's education. It's more than just making sure homework is done and behavior is proper at school. It also means attending school functions and parent teach conferences.

People forget you need to be involved in your child's education. It's more than just making sure homework is done and behavior is proper at school. It also means attending school functions and parent teach conferences.

I agree, completely. I am, however, going to say why I don't participate as much as I'd like to. Everything is scheduled to end before 6. What about working parents? I get so frustrated with the idea that I'm only allowed to participate in parent / teacher discussions if I don't work.
Counterpoint: What could be more important than your child's education? Answer: affording the house we live in and food on the table.

And, again, it ignores the facts that the parents ARE paying for it in tax dollars or out of their own pocket. Moore Schools just built a new press box for the district's football stadium used by three schools with proceeds from a publicly voted bond issue that overwhelmingly passed. Combine that with the fact that virtually every significant sports team operates from the funds generated by parent-operated booster organizations that work their tails off to raise funds and it really provides some facts to disabuse this notion that athletics is taking all the money away from the education department.

I know of one high school that just last year bought new uniforms for their schools team - and not one penny came from taxpayer pockets. It was entirely funded by the parent booster organization through membership drives, fund raisers, car washes, discount card sales, you name it.

I think, too, that its important to point out that only competitive athletics draws this reflexive indignance from the chronically myopic. Its curious that competitive choral singing, mock trials, debate, journalism, music (to name only a few) all are coming out of taxpayer pockets, but that never seems to draw the ire of the Perpetually Indignant - and I guess that's directly because of the shortsightedness that believes education can only come out of some sort of a textbook.

Best post of the year right here^

Right now I see two main schools of thought dominating our education system in our society.

1. Here is my kid teach him while I work and play.

2. The schools have are not teaching my kids they way I think they need to be taught therefore, I am home schooling or I am sending them to private school.

The education system I grew up in had a balance of parent and teacher interaction. My parents and my teachers work together to hold me accountable for my actions. When they disagreed they handled without me in the audience. I was never allowed to argue with my teachers. However, I was encouraged to ask honest questions and seek answers to those honest questions. The only time my parents sided against my teachers is when they did not permit honest questions in the classroom. People forget you need to be involved in your child's education. It's more than just making sure homework is done and behavior is proper at school. It also means attending school functions and parent teach conferences.

It's unfortunate but true; that statement sums up where many parents are with children.

It's sad that some parents are trapped in a box.

This article was in today's Denver Post, it seems many schools are charging fees for many items that used to be "included" when I was going to school.

Denver Post - Fees pile up for parents in Colorado public schools (http://www.okctalk.com/sports/35062-what-extent-should-tax-payer-dollars-go-fund-high-school-athletics-4.html)


The Cherry Creek School District collected fees for athletics and parking that totaled about $976,000 last year. The school district of more than 53,000 students does not charge for transportation, a fee that many of its counterparts have implemented.

In my schools days you had to pay for everything you needed for all extra curricular activities. Band and sports paid for their uniforms and equipment. If you didn't pay for it in full, you rented or paid a deposit that was reimbursed if all items were returned in good condition. The teams, band and clubs also had fundraisers to cover the cost of community equipment and maintenance expenses. The only the district really paid for was the buildings, buses, fuel for the buses. Just about every coach had a bus drivers license and they would graciously lend themselves to the other school clubs so they could go to their functions.

There never was a real problem with school athletics until the "My kid going to go pro and make millions" crowd started showing there ugly faces demanding state of the art stadiums, indoor practice facilities, team buses and weight rooms that rival college and NFL teams. Now you have schools that are recruiting athletes in stead of just utilizing the kids who live and have grown up in the district. I have heard everything from houses being purchase to do nothing jobs being lined up for the parents to get certain kids in their district.

To what extent should tax payer dollars go to fund high school athletics?

How about band? Or choir? Or art? Or any non-academic focused school program? Should we get rid of high school plays and musicals next?

To what extent should tax payer dollars go to fund high school athletics?

How about band? Or choir? Or art? Or any non-academic focused school program? Should we get rid of high school plays and musicals next?

How about just making the spending equal.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5487/9594310139_023b574c26.jpg

How about just making the spending equal.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5487/9594310139_023b574c26.jpg

My high school never had that.

Hell I went to heritage hall and we had short busses that were white.

How about just making the spending equal.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5487/9594310139_023b574c26.jpg

Good god, it's a school bus. Your point?

My highschool had a bus or two like that, and I as a member of the band occasionally rode in them.

We used the yellow school buses (PC Schools) but that was 30 years ago and most of our games were in town. Some of the more out of town teams (like Altus) have much longer road trips to games and I do know groups other than athletics use that bus. Most of those use booster club funds to pay for those type of bus leases, it also saves mileage on the school buses that are used everyday.

Those buses are probably not purchased as brand new. They are likely purchased from companies like Village Tours. It should be noted that school buses are not exactly cheap. Sometimes it's more cost effective to purchase a gently used charter bus than it is to buy a school bus so I don't see a problem with these types of buses. Just simply because the entire district gets to use them not just the athletic department.

Some of the school bus manufactures are even making these style of buses. Putnam City has some of them because I saw them transporting the band at my nephews graduation this past May.

What I see as a waste are the SUV's that are purchased for student transport. The average full size SUV is only going to last maybe 150,000 miles before it wears out. Minibuses should be purchased instead because they are designed to last 10 years or longer and many can go up to 300,000 miles with proper maintenance. Sure your going to pay more for them, however, you won't have to replace them every 3-5 years.