View Full Version : Breakthrough may lead to ‘limitless’ supply of hydrogen fuel



JohnH_in_OKC
09-19-2013, 10:02 PM
From SmartPlanet.com:
Breakthrough may lead to ‘limitless’ supply of hydrogen fuel (http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/thinking-tech/breakthrough-may-lead-to-8216limitless-supply-of-hydrogen-fuel/8550)

By Tuan C. Nguyen | September 21, 2011, 7:29 AM PDT

If a new technology pans out, the fading notion that hydrogen will someday supplant fossil fuels may be on the verge of a comeback.

There was a time in the early 90’s when the fuel cell was touted as the clean energy technology of the future. The only byproduct was water and it also packed a whole lot more energy than electric car batteries. For instance, nine pounds of the stuff was enough to enable a vehicle to go 150 miles. However, methods to generate hydrogen were in and of themselves energy intensive. And ultimately, the concept of needing energy to produce energy was problematic enough to make it a dealbreaker for many green investors.

But now researchers at Penn state have demonstrated an innovative “self-powered” process of producing hydrogen that, if scalable, can revive interest in fuel cell technology.

Related: California highways may soon produce their own power (http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/thinking-tech/california-highways-may-soon-produce-their-own-power/6348?tag=content;siu-container)

What enables the technique to work is the clever integration of bacteria, seawater and fresh water. In 2009, researchers discovered that special bacteria called microbial electrolysis cells can break down matter in wastewater to release hydrogen, though it still needed a slight jolt of electricity to get the process going.

They eventually turned to a separate process known as reverse-electrodialysis or RED, which is similar to desalination, except run in reverse. The logic goes something like this: extracting the salt from seawater requires quite a bit of energy, so bringing the two back together would release energy that can be used to give the little bugs a kick start.

“If you think about desalinating water, it takes energy, Bruce E. Logan, a professor of environmental engineering, told the BBC. “If you have a freshwater and saltwater interface, that can add energy. We realized that just a little bit of that energy could make this process go on its own.”

Here's a diagram: http://i.bnet.com/blogs/microbial_electrolysis_cell.png

Logan’s cells were between 58 and 64 percent efficient and produced between 0.8 to 1.6 cubic meters of hydrogen for every cubic meter of liquid run through the cell each day. The researchers estimated that only about 1 percent of the energy produced in the cell was needed to pump water through the system.

The findings were published in this week’s issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

So far, this approach has only been demonstrated successfully in the lab. To scale up this technology, the researchers proposed running seawater and river water through a stack of alternating cathode and anode exchange membranes.

“This system could produce hydrogen anyplace that there is wastewater near sea water. It uses no grid electricity and is completely carbon neutral,” Logan said. “It is an inexhaustible source of energy.”

SoonerDave
09-20-2013, 06:58 AM
Very intriguing, although I note the article is a couple of years old. Wonder what's happened on this since that time?

Only thing that makes me cautious is when I read phrases like "well, we just need a little energy to kick-start the process" and "its inexhaustible", because those start to sound a lot like perpetual motion machines. Not saying that's the case here, but just a "yellow flag," that's all.

As I said, be interesting to know what's happened with this in the last couple of years.

jn1780
09-20-2013, 07:34 AM
But now researchers at Penn state have demonstrated an innovative “self-powered” process of producing hydrogen that, if scalable, can revive interest in fuel cell technology.

Keyword here. I have no doubt that bacteria eating wastewater could be used to create hydrogen, but this really just a more evolved form of composting. What's in the wastewater would determine what actual output of hydrogen.

JohnH_in_OKC
09-21-2013, 05:37 PM
Very intriguing, although I note the article is a couple of years old. Wonder what's happened on this since that time?

Only thing that makes me cautious is when I read phrases like "well, we just need a little energy to kick-start the process" and "its inexhaustible", because those start to sound a lot like perpetual motion machines. Not saying that's the case here, but just a "yellow flag," that's all.

As I said, be interesting to know what's happened with this in the last couple of years.

I overlooked the date. The article was sent out in a recent daily newsletter that I copied & pasted from, but I overlooked the date of original publication. Had I realized it was 2 years old, I would not have created this thread.

venture
09-21-2013, 11:05 PM
Very intriguing, although I note the article is a couple of years old. Wonder what's happened on this since that time?

Only thing that makes me cautious is when I read phrases like "well, we just need a little energy to kick-start the process" and "its inexhaustible", because those start to sound a lot like perpetual motion machines. Not saying that's the case here, but just a "yellow flag," that's all.

As I said, be interesting to know what's happened with this in the last couple of years.

Big Oil probably bought the rights to it and killed the technology. ;)

hoya
09-22-2013, 11:24 AM
At the end of the day, we have "limitless" fuel now. The sun isn't going to burn out for another 4 or 5 billion years. We could use solar power on everything. The reason we don't is because at the moment it costs too much. There's still a whole bunch of this oil stuff that we keep finding in the ground.

If this hydrogen process does work, it doesn't mean that it will be economically efficient. The questions will be how much can it produce and how quickly? If we spend a billion dollars building these plants, will they produce more energy than a billion dollar dam? Or a billion dollars in oil wells?

mugofbeer
09-22-2013, 04:40 PM
If true, it could be world changing. How to keep the Chinese from stealing the technology?

Mel
09-22-2013, 06:56 PM
Folks have a way of outbreeding their resources so this could get interesting.