I guess this is what it has finally come down to. There was no way the interstate system was sustainable and now we have a broken run down system that we can't afford to fix or replace but is needed to keep the wheels of the economy going. The interstate trust fund that was supposed to pay for it (using a growth model) funds less than half and will be out of money completely in a few years, which means not only do we have to fund the current half from the general fund, but we have to get the other half from the general fund as well PLUS new money for replacement and expansion, and the general fund is also woefully under funded. Not exactly a recipe for success.

Study proposes tolling interstate system to pay for reconstruction | McClatchy (http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/09/12/202007/study-proposes-tolling-interstate.html#.UjMELIfD8fI)

This idea merits consideration. I've considered it for some time and thought, "why not?"

How big of an increase of gas tax would be required to keep up with the ongoing repairs? 18.4 cents is what it currently is. I travel a lot and would be against a per mile toll especially costing that much. I would start using state and local roads like the article suggests way more than an interstate.

How much is the infrastructure going to cost to add toll technology to the entirety of the Interstate system?

no thanks ..

Oh this works perfect then...Every car in the US will be obligated to have a receptor and the gvt can charge us whenever we drive on the Interstates. And it really will make the whole keeping tabs on all of the citizens so much easier ;) !!

I say do it and exempt public transportation. It's more fair than a gas tax, which I imagine would affect blue collar workers disproportionately because of their reliance on pickups and older model vehicles.

I pay a 'toll' everytime I put gas in the car.

This idea merits consideration. I've considered it for some time and thought, "why not?"

How about everyone here just write out a check for lets say for - $5,000.00 and send it on in....they'll take care of it for you. Why Not ?

I pay a 'toll' everytime I put gas in the car.

That "toll" you pay doesn't nearly cover the amount required to keep our highway and road system up-to-date.

That "toll" you pay doesn't nearly cover the amount required to keep our highway and road system up-to-date.

For another thread - but if the majority of each dollar collected wasn't used in gvm't admin, it'd go a lot further.

Count me IN

Roads are incredibly expensive to maintain. Interstates especially so because the trucking industry relies on them so much. And that's the problem. Big trucks thrive because they're effectively getting a subsidized transportation system. Trucks cause a lot more damage to the roads than cars do. But even though they have worse gas mileage than cars, a gasoline tax doesn't reflect the higher amount of damage that these trucks cause to the roads.

It's the equivalent of splitting the check right down the middle when you go to a restaurant with a fat guy.

We're going to need to modernize our transportation network. That may include a lot more tolls on major interstates. Or how about just tolls for big trucks? Will they pass the costs on to their customers? Of course. But that may make other forms of transportation more affordable. More goods might be shipped by air, or by rail.

Regardless, it's time to tell the fat guy, "no, I'll just pay for my BLT and coke. You pay for your six cheeseburgers."

For another thread - but if the majority of each dollar collected wasn't used in gvm't admin, it'd go a lot further.

I've never seen a study on that. Can you point me to one?

I never thought I'd see the day when the urbanistas tout a study done by the Reason Foundation. Mind BLOWN!

Yeah,. That's right. lets let the government dig a little deeper in out over taxed pockets. A little more won't hurt, right? .... You folks that want to be so free with everyone elses money should pay the tolls yourselves. How about an honest accounting of where ALL our tax dollars go before you volunteer more.

I pay a 'toll' everytime I put gas in the car.

Yes - but you aren't paying enough. That is the whole problem and raising the rate won't help because cars are getting more fuel efficient and an increasing number aren't using gasoline at all.

Here is the easy solution. Eliminate about 75% of the interchanges and put toll booths (with an optional electronic system) on the remaining 25%. We have to do something because the current strategy isn't working.

Here is how I would reconfigure I-35

Close
Lindsey St (Norman)
Main St (Norman)
Robinson (Norman)
Flood (Norman)
Indian Hills (Norman)
SW 4th - including the service roads (Moore)
NW 12th (Moore)
NW 27th (Moore)
SE 89th (OKC)
SE 66th (OKC)
SE 44th (OKC)
SE 29th (OKC)
SE 25th (OKC)
Eastern (OKC)
NE 10th (OKC)
NE 36th (OKC)
Bryant (OKC)
NE 78th (OKC)
Wilshire (OKC)
NE 108th (OKC)
NE 122nd (OKC)
E Memorial (OKC)
E 33rd (Edmond)
E 15th (Edmond)
Danforth (Edmond)
Waterloo (Edmond)
E Seward (Edmond)
Division (rural exit)

Toll Booth
Highway 9 (Norman)
Tecumseh Rd (Norman)
SW 19th (Moore)
Shields (Moore)
SE59th (OKC)
Grand, Blvd (OKC)
SE 15th (OKC)
Eastern (OKC)
SE 23rd (OKC)
NE 50th (OKC)
Britton (OKC)
E 2nd (Edmond)
E. Covell (Edmond)



No Toll
I-240 (OKC)
I-40 West (OKC)
I-235 (OKC)
I-40 East (OKC)
I-44 (OKC)
I-44/Kilpatrick (OKC)

With the mileage figures rising on many cars and the mandate that those figures get better, its time to reconfigure how to get the funds to maintain what was probably the biggest infrastructure project this country has ever seen. Taxing vehicles at every purchase point based on weight, taxing tires, and taxing based on annual mileage( figure obtained by tag agent at renewal) could be options worth exploring in place of the current federal tax on fuel.

Yeah,. That's right. lets let the government dig a little deeper in out over taxed pockets. A little more won't hurt, right? .... You folks that want to be so free with everyone elses money should pay the tolls yourselves. How about an honest accounting of where ALL our tax dollars go before you volunteer more.

We would have to pay the tolls ourselves if we drove on the roads...

Mixed feelings on this. I'd have to see studies by groups other than the libertarian Reason Foundation before I could give an educated opinion.

Knee-jerk reaction says I'd want a full audit first that shows that every current dollar being collected is not being wasted. And if there is massive waste it needs to be addressed first.

Then I'd want to see the cost if the price is spread out over the entire fuel buying public as opposed to simply those who travel specific roads (taking into account the new technologies needed to handle such precise billing).

Are we talking about adding a penny to EVERYONE'S gallon of gas or a quarter?

If people elect to stop using the Interstates as much does that mean the rest get to see their per mile fees increased to cover it? And vice versa - if more people are on the roads will they just spend that extra money or will rates go down?

Lastly, where is all this traveling data going to be stored and who will have access to it? Can law enforcement access it? Will it be stored beyond the billing cycle? Will it be sold to marketers who will use it to advertise to people who drive by certain locations on a regular basis, etc. - and if so, will that lower the cost per mile to the consumer?

Way to many questions for a simply "Yeah" or "Nay" from me.

I know there aren't some fans of the OTA on here, but I watched them add a lane in both directions, rebuilt bridges and an over pass, as well as some other items, to over and 8 mile stretch of highway in just over 13 months. Its amazing what you can do with money in hand, paid mostly by people who drive on it.

An honest accounting? Sure. People who live in Norman and work in OKC who cry, cry, cry that there aren't enough lanes on I-35. Everyone hates taxes except when they pay for the services they uniquely need/want.

I personally don't think we need an interstate system like the one we've got. The distances between major metros is too great in the US. We should've stuck with rail. Far, far cheaper per mile. But as long as we are going to have one and as long as everyone wants one, I expect us all to pay for them so we don't push that cost on down to my kids.

Why trust the same institution(s) that got us into this mess? They always underestimate and under fund - then wait until the problem is critical before addressing it so as to force us to go along with whatever next ill-conceived plan they've got up their sleeve.

I say wait and force an accounting. Lets see the waste. Lets see what bully unions have added to this mess. And more importantly lets see some reassurances that we won't all be scratching our heads again in 20 more years.

As for rail - I'm no fan except when I'm vacationing (and even then - not so much). If they had rail to Austin and say the Plaza area in Kansas City then I'd certainly consider going more often. But I'd never take a rail to say Tulsa or Norman.

That being said, every time I look into the rail to go to the Ft Worth area I just laugh because I can't find a single reason to do it - costs more, takes far too much time, is not pet friendly and its inconvenient.

Mixed feelings on this. I'd have to see studies by groups other than the libertarian Reason Foundation before I could give an educated opinion.

Knee-jerk reaction says I'd want a full audit first that shows that every current dollar being collected is not being wasted. And if there is massive waste it needs to be addressed first.

Then I'd want to see the cost if the price is spread out over the entire fuel buying public as opposed to simply those who travel specific roads (taking into account the new technologies needed to handle such precise billing).

Are we talking about adding a penny to EVERYONE'S gallon of gas or a quarter?

If people elect to stop using the Interstates as much does that mean the rest get to see their per mile fees increased to cover it? And vice versa - if more people are on the roads will they just spend that extra money or will rates go down?

Lastly, where is all this traveling data going to be stored and who will have access to it? Can law enforcement access it? Will it be stored beyond the billing cycle? Will it be sold to marketers who will use it to advertise to people who drive by certain locations on a regular basis, etc. - and if so, will that lower the cost per mile to the consumer?

Way to many questions for a simply "Yeah" or "Nay" from me.

Fabulously well put. Kudos.

The other element of the response to the original post is whether another aspect of the "solution" involves the consideration of the solution underway in a number of states...namely, ones that are building private highway-caliber "intrastate" highways, and the prime example of this is Texas....correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that they are 100% financed without a penny from the fed gov't.

There was no way the interstate system was sustainable and now we have a broken run down system that we can't afford to fix or replace but is needed to keep the wheels of the economy going.

It really sucks, because I know this might not be popular opinion, but I think the US Interstate system is one of the great achievements of that era.

The interstate highway system was built at the behest of Gen. "Ike", selling it partially based on a national defense need. With the pentagon budget exceeding that of most of the world combined and no superpower threat on the magnitude of the USSR, maybe a few less needless weapons systems could also pay for maintaince of what is supposedly a defense need.

Nobody gave hoya his due, but a big problem genuinely is the trucking industry. A vehicle that weighs 10x to 25x that of a car, probably should shoulder a majority of whatever toll/tax we're going to levy.

Maybe a freight tax or toll based on weight...now, of course that will raise the price of goods everywhere, but that will only in the end incentivize localization of economy in the long run.

I've never seen a study on that. Can you point me to one?

I used to work for the Feds - FAA - common knowledge back then. I used to watch 400 people at a qtr till 5:00 waiting in a line at the door until the clock struck 5:00 to go home. Not very productive on most levels.

Nobody gave hoya his due, but a big problem genuinely is the trucking industry. A vehicle that weighs 10x to 25x that of a car, probably should shoulder a majority of whatever toll/tax we're going to levy.

Maybe a freight tax or toll based on weight...now, of course that will raise the price of goods everywhere, but that will only in the end incentivize localization of economy in the long run.

Compared to a car - yes trucks do more damage, but compared to the amount of destruction done by mother nature both vehicles pale in comparison. Just look at crumbing sidewalks as an example. The heaviest thing on them is a person.

The other element of the response to the original post is whether another aspect of the "solution" involves the consideration of the solution underway in a number of states...namely, ones that are building private highway-caliber "intrastate" highways, and the prime example of this is Texas....correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that they are 100% financed without a penny from the fed gov't.

The State of Florida has already said no more free highways will be built here. Any new roads or lanes added to existing highways will all be toll. What will be interesting is if they use a growth model to determine the toll rate. I suspect they will which means at some point we will be right back where we started.

I used to work for the Feds - FAA - common knowledge back then. I used to watch 400 people at a qtr till 5:00 waiting in a line at the door until the clock struck 5:00 to go home. Not very productive on most levels.

You must have not exactly had your head in the game, either, if you were watching the people. I know several government workers and they often put in much more than their 8 hours because they love their job and get great satisfaction. I also know several government workers who barely earn their pay. The same is true in the private sector. The fact that some clock watchers exist doesn't correlate to government waste on a wide-spread scale.

Yes - but you aren't paying enough. That is the whole problem and raising the rate won't help because cars are getting more fuel efficient and an increasing number aren't using gasoline at all.

Here is the easy solution. Eliminate about 75% of the interchanges and put toll booths (with an optional electronic system) on the remaining 25%. We have to do something because the current strategy isn't working.

Here is how I would reconfigure I-35

Close
Lindsey St (Norman)
Main St (Norman)
Robinson (Norman)
Flood (Norman)
Indian Hills (Norman)
SW 4th - including the service roads (Moore)
NW 12th (Moore)
NW 27th (Moore)
SE 89th (OKC)
SE 66th (OKC)
SE 44th (OKC)
SE 29th (OKC)
SE 25th (OKC)
Eastern (OKC)
NE 10th (OKC)
NE 36th (OKC)
Bryant (OKC)
NE 78th (OKC)
Wilshire (OKC)
NE 108th (OKC)
NE 122nd (OKC)
E Memorial (OKC)
E 33rd (Edmond)
E 15th (Edmond)
Danforth (Edmond)
Waterloo (Edmond)
E Seward (Edmond)
Division (rural exit)

Toll Booth
Highway 9 (Norman)
Tecumseh Rd (Norman)
SW 19th (Moore)
Shields (Moore)
SE59th (OKC)
Grand, Blvd (OKC)
SE 15th (OKC)
Eastern (OKC)
SE 23rd (OKC)
NE 50th (OKC)
Britton (OKC)
E 2nd (Edmond)
E. Covell (Edmond)



No Toll
I-240 (OKC)
I-40 West (OKC)
I-235 (OKC)
I-40 East (OKC)
I-44 (OKC)
I-44/Kilpatrick (OKC)


So lets say a plan like this was enacted. And lets say 10% of that traffic came off the interstates because drivers didn't like it and refuse to pay a toll for what their taxes should already be paying for, and was already built. I wonder what kind of impact this would have on the state highways, main arteries, and surface streets that will have to absorb the extra traffic.

So lets say a plan like this was enacted. And lets say 10% of that traffic came off the interstates because drivers didn't like it and refuse to pay a toll for what their taxes should already be paying for, and was already built. I wonder what kind of impact this would have on the state highways, main arteries, and surface streets that will have to absorb the extra traffic.

Perhaps all these people giving up the Interstates would look to some OTHER form of surface transportation. Maybe we'd get an RTA and/or JTF's OK Rail Network and people could start enjoying the commute. Maybe we'd start to look to locating our houses and jobs closer to each other. Maybe we'd start to focus on living in our neighborhoods more. Maybe that traffic would disappear more than dissipate to other roads.

You must have not exactly had your head in the game, either, if you were watching the people. I know several government workers and they often put in much more than their 8 hours because they love their job and get great satisfaction. I also know several government workers who barely earn their pay. The same is true in the private sector. The fact that some clock watchers exist doesn't correlate to government waste on a wide-spread scale.



I was a contractor, I worked for half the pay until 7 pm, as they filed out early. But what I'm referring to was in DC at the time. It's hard to miss as the file right by you.

Government waste ? You ever heard about the $500 hammer....?

we pay plenty of taxes to fund the federal highway system ... we just need change the wasteful spending in washington ... and restructure/change the entitlement programs.....


ie... not happening anytime soon .

Perhaps all these people giving up the Interstates would look to some OTHER form of surface transportation. Maybe we'd get an RTA and/or JTF's OK Rail Network and people could start enjoying the commute. Maybe we'd start to look to locating our houses and jobs closer to each other. Maybe we'd start to focus on living in our neighborhoods more. Maybe that traffic would disappear more than dissipate to other roads.

Rolling out a RTA would be the big thing to happen with tolling all interstates. I personally would have no problem giving up my car to take the train in every day. It would give me an hour back each way of productivity that I can't get while driving. Many seem to miss that point.

Perhaps all these people giving up the Interstates would look to some OTHER form of surface transportation. Maybe we'd get an RTA and/or JTF's OK Rail Network and people could start enjoying the commute. Maybe we'd start to look to locating our houses and jobs closer to each other. Maybe we'd start to focus on living in our neighborhoods more. Maybe that traffic would disappear more than dissipate to other roads.

This ^

Just think how much money we would have to left over to spend on quality of life issues (or pay back the federal debt) if we weren't spending so much on transportation costs. Say what we want about Europe, but do you know why they work 1/2 the hours we do? Answer - because they can.

Roads are incredibly expensive to maintain. Interstates especially so because the trucking industry relies on them so much. And that's the problem. Big trucks thrive because they're effectively getting a subsidized transportation system. Trucks cause a lot more damage to the roads than cars do. But even though they have worse gas mileage than cars, a gasoline tax doesn't reflect the higher amount of damage that these trucks cause to the roads.

It's the equivalent of splitting the check right down the middle when you go to a restaurant with a fat guy.

We're going to need to modernize our transportation network. That may include a lot more tolls on major interstates. Or how about just tolls for big trucks? Will they pass the costs on to their customers? Of course. But that may make other forms of transportation more affordable. More goods might be shipped by air, or by rail.

Regardless, it's time to tell the fat guy, "no, I'll just pay for my BLT and coke. You pay for your six cheeseburgers."
While it isn't proportionate to the amount of damage created by a truck compared to a passenger vehicle, the trucking industry already pays higher gasoline taxes per gallon than the rest of us do (along with the lower gas mileage which means they have to buy more fuel, which means more revenue)

The United States federal excise tax on gasoline is 18.4 cents per gallon and 24.4 cents per gallon for diesel fuel.
Also it depends on the kind of truck...

The U.S. Department of Transportation in its most recent Highway Cost Allocation Study estimated that light single-unit trucks, operating at less than 25,000 pounds, pay 150 percent of their road costs while the heaviest tractor-trailer combination trucks, weighing over 100,000 pounds, pay only 50 percent of their road costs.
Then there are probably things like taxes, fees etc that government entities collect from the trucking industry that are above and beyond the rest of us???

This ^

Just think how much money we would have to left over to spend on quality of life issues (or pay back the federal debt) if we weren't spending so much on transportation costs. Say what we want about Europe, but do you know why they work 1/2 the hours we do? Answer - because they can.

Are you very knowledgable of the debt situation Greece is in ? First off, most of them retired at 40 years of age, second, they are a little short on jobs. And Spain isn't much better......lol

Next time you're in London, ask them why a ton of their jobs migrated to Dublin ? There's a reason we had to bail them out of 2 world wars..LOL

So lets say a plan like this was enacted. And lets say 10% of that traffic came off the interstates because drivers didn't like it and refuse to pay a toll for what their taxes should already be paying for, and was already built. I wonder what kind of impact this would have on the state highways, main arteries, and surface streets that will have to absorb the extra traffic.

There are not too many possibilities. It should be easy for us to examine them.

Either we really are paying enough money to maintain our interstates (as you said "what our taxes should already be paying for") or we are not. It must be one or the other. There is no third possibility. At the moment, it appears as though the second possibility is the correct one.

If we really are paying enough money with our taxes, then we need to determine where the inefficiency is that makes our roads fall into disrepair.
If we are not paying enough money, then we must either decrease services or increase taxes (I suppose we could allow it to slowly fall into dangerous disrepair). There is no other possibility.

We currently have a gasoline tax that is supposed to cover these sorts of repairs. However when that tax was established, it was based upon certain assumptions. It assumed a certain number of miles of interstate, a certain number of drivers, and a certain amount of fuel efficiency. We have since seen that those numbers were incorrect. Because people aren't driving as far, and because they're getting better gas mileage, and because we've built a lot more interstates over the decades, the tax is insufficient.

Are you paying a tax to maintain the interstate system? Yes. But it's the equivalent of paying $12 a month for your cable bill. It might have been sufficient in 1982, but it is not sufficient in 2013. Therefore we must either decrease services or increase taxes. If we decrease services, or charge a toll to the point that people abandon the interstate in favor of local roads, then some of the wear and tear from the interstate will be shifted to those local roads. This will require the exact same choices at the local level.

Not liking the choices we have ahead of us does not mean that the dilemma is not real.

What we should be doing is investing heavily in other types of transportation options, as well as exploring new funding sources for the interstate system. But that's going to require planning and investment.

[/B]

Are you very knowledgable of the debt situation Greece is in ? First off, most of them retired at 40 years of age, second, they are a little short on jobs. And Spain isn't much better......lol

Next time you're in London, ask them why a ton of their jobs migrated to Dublin ? There's a reason we had to bail them out of 2 world wars..LOL

Funny you mention Greece. Do you know our debt situation is worse and we have to work until we drop dead. Lower debt AND get to retire at 40 - where did we screw up?

'U.S. Per Person Debt Now 35 Percent Higher than that of Greece' | The Weekly Standard (http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/us-person-debt-now-35-percent-higher-greece_660409.html)


"On a per person basis, that means U.S. debt is $53,400 for every man, woman, and child, compared to $39,400 for every man, woman, and child in Greece.

Funny you mention Greece. Do you know our debt situation is worse and we have to work until we drop dead. Lower debt AND get to retire at 40 - where did we screw up?

'U.S. Per Person Debt Now 35 Percent Higher than that of Greece' | The Weekly Standard (http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/us-person-debt-now-35-percent-higher-greece_660409.html)

I was in Greece a couple of years ago where they didn't have the money to make a payroll for public facilities....... you should have seen the trash on the streets. Now they are in the process of correcting 20 years and your out as a gvm't employee.

Now if you'd read that article.... that desparity happened in one year...prior to 2011 we were lower... also notice how out of the top 6, 5 are European.

I was in Greece a couple of years ago where they didn't have the money to make a payroll for public facilities....... you should have seen the trash on the streets. Now they are in the process of correcting 20 years and your out as a gvm't employee.

I know, that is why we have to figure out to prevent that from happening here. As hoyasooner said above - more revenue, less service, interstate highway system collapse - those are the 3, and only 3, choices for the US interstate system. There is no secret option 4.

To be fully honest - my money is on option 3. We know we can't raise the gasoline tax because when gas hits $4 per gallon the economy starts to shut down, but our current gas tax doesn't generate enough revenue to maintain the roads. I think we are caught in a progress trap with no way out but down the drain. As long as we have debt available to us we will just keep digging the hole deeper. Your guess is as good as mine as to what happens when the debt runs out, but I know one thing, we won't be widening any interstates then.

Yep, we keep borrowing to pay our bills.....not sure where it ends.

I know, that is why we have to figure out to prevent that from happening here. As hoyasooner said above - more revenue, less service, interstate highway system collapse - those are the 3, and only 3, choices for the US interstate system. There is no secret option 4.

To be fully honest - my money is on option 3. We know we can't raise the gasoline tax because when gas hits $4 per gallon the economy starts to shut down, but our current gas tax doesn't generate enough revenue to maintain the roads. I think we are caught in a progress trap with no way out but down the drain. As long as we have debt available to us we will just keep digging the hole deeper. Your guess is as good as mine as to what happens when the debt runs out, but I know one thing, we won't be widening any interstates then.

So because other countries with a more balanced transportation system with more options for consumers have higher pump prices, it does not affect them as much?

Stupid idea.

Stupid idea.

Do you have a better idea? The problem doesn't go away just because the proposed solution is stupid.

JTF, why do prices > than 4 bucks/gallon tank our economy but not those of other industrialized countries?

JTF, why do prices > than 4 bucks/gallon tank our economy but not those of other industrialized countries?

I would imagine the others are less reliant on the trucking industry to move goods.


Do you have a better idea? The problem doesn't go away just because the proposed solution is stupid.

So many find it easy to just make their few word posts on how stupid something is or that it can't work, but never provide any solutions or additional thought.

The easiest first step should be an immediate tolling of all rural interstates. It isn't hard to do with existing PikePass/EasyPass/IPass systems in place over much of the country already. The urban portions would be a little tougher.

JTF, why do prices > than 4 bucks/gallon tank our economy but not those of other industrialized countries?

Maybe it has something to do with those other places (I'm talking western Europe) have more well-rounded transportation systems that can supplement auto transport easier than what we have available in this country? Just thinking out loud here.

Why wouldn't you just raise the gas tax? It's a fixed amount per gallon that's the same today as it was 20 years ago. You don't have to be an economist to know if you dont adjust it for inflation then of course it's going to be insufficient 20 years later unless you cut spending by an equal amount as consumed by inflation which in this case is about 35%. Sure, toll roads could be used to generate the money but it would incur some amount of initial outlay and also on going operating costs that far exceeds the cost of simply raising the existing tax. Either way the costs will be paid by the motorists so what difference does it make. It seems like a no brainer but then again I'm not an expert on the subject. I'm sure there's a sprawl factor I'm not considering.

Its just somewhat saddening that within my lifetime the richest nation ever known on this planet has come to the point where roads are seen as an unaffordable luxury.

Why wouldn't you just raise the gas tax? It's a fixed amount per gallon that's the same today as it was 20 years ago. You don't have to be an economist to know if you dont adjust it for inflation then of course it's going to be insufficient 20 years later unless you cut spending by an equal amount as consumed by inflation which in this case is about 35%. Sure, toll roads could be used to generate the money but it would incur some amount of initial outlay and also on going operating costs that far exceeds the cost of simply raising the existing tax. Either way the costs will be paid by the motorists so what difference does it make. It seems like a no brainer but then again I'm not an expert on the subject. I'm sure there's a sprawl factor I'm not considering.

Its just somewhat saddening that within my lifetime the richest nation ever known on this planet has come to the point where roads are seen as an unaffordable luxury.

I think just raising the fuel tax is not a long term solution. Electric vehicles, increased mileage of gas and diesel engines as well as alternate fuel sources make this a bit impractical. Taxing tires, or auto parts, taxing based on gvw everytime a vehicle changes hands or other constants would provide a smoother way. Of course tolls also, as drivers directly using the system should pay more than those who do not.

I think just raising the fuel tax is not a long term solution. Electric vehicles, increased mileage of gas and diesel engines as well as alternate fuel sources make this a bit impractical. Taxing tires, or auto parts, taxing based on gvw everytime a vehicle changes hands or other constants would provide a smoother way. Of course tolls also, as drivers directly using the system should pay more than those who do not.

Raising the gas tax is impractical but retrofitting the nations 45,000+ miles of interstate to account for millions of trips per day and creating a system to bill millions of customers isn't? Okay, I'm from misouri on this one, show me. Electric cars aren't even a blip on the usage radar and won't be for decades (if even then) and higher average MPH could simply be factored into the gas tax rate. Also, lets be real here. There is no way the "toll the entire freeway system" is going to happen anytime soon.

Raising the gas tax is impractical but retrofitting the nations 45,000+ miles of interstate to account for millions of trips per day and creating a system to bill millions of customers isn't? Okay, I'm from misouri on this one, show me. Electric cars aren't even a blip on the usage radar and won't be for decades (if even then) and higher average MPH could simply be factored into the gas tax rate. Also, lets be real here. There is no way the "toll the entire freeway system" is going to happen anytime soon.

The difference is that there is a significant upfront cost to tolling the interstate system, but tolling the roads is actually quite practical once you get past the initial investment. Raising the gas tax just isn't practical for the reasons shared above.

The difference is that there is a significant upfront cost to tolling the interstate system, but tolling the roads is actually quite practical once you get past the initial investment. Raising the gas tax just isn't practical for the reasons shared above.

Let me get this straight. It's impractical because of electric cars and modest improvements in the nations overall MPG? I don't see it.

Do you have a better idea? The problem doesn't go away just because the proposed solution is stupid.

So I have to have a better idea to say something huh? Excuse me Kim Jong-un. I just think it is stupid idea. I will just stay off the interstates.

The weight of the vehicle should be a factor also. The heavier it is the more it tears up the road. Your road pass would be issued with that info and should be affixed to your windshield like the pike pass is.

So I have to have a better idea to say something huh? Excuse me Kim Jong-un. I just think it is stupid idea. I will just stay off the interstates.

That would also be a positive outcome. Reduced traffic on the interstates means less of a need to keep adding lanes and reduce overall maintenance costs.

As far as the rest. Message boards live and die by having quality contributions added to them to further the discussion. Just food for thought.

Why not just tax milage when you pay for your license tag and eliminate the gas tax? That's what several states have already been proposing.

Raising the gas tax is impractical but retrofitting the nations 45,000+ miles of interstate to account for millions of trips per day and creating a system to bill millions of customers isn't? Okay, I'm from misouri on this one, show me. Electric cars aren't even a blip on the usage radar and won't be for decades (if even then) and higher average MPH could simply be factored into the gas tax rate. Also, lets be real here. There is no way the "toll the entire freeway system" is going to happen anytime soon.

Creating a system? The systems are already there. Just turn all the interstates over to the states' turnpike commissions and let them go to town. Majority of all the systems already talk to each other anyway. PikePass is one of the exceptions where it doesn't talk with the E-ZPass system or K-Tag. So that would be a situation where the Oklahoma PikePass system would need to be either scrapped or updated to work with the other states. The system could also be setup to where you get your toll road device or sticker when you get plates for the car or the next time you renew...making it mandatory to get. The billing then would be setup to a credit card or bank account. If the person doesn't have one, then they need to pre-pay $50 at the time of receiving it and then recharge another $50 when only $10 is left on it.

Also, depending on the state, many already have the abilities in place to handle construction, snow removal, etc. It would also make the state's responsible for their own highways and remove any federal responsibilities.

Stupid idea and not happening anytime soon. It is so funny how some say suburbia is disappearing, and car sales are decreasing, and blah blah blah. It is not happening. Car sales are highest in 4 years and there is major growth happening in Edmond, Norman, Moore ect.

We need to stop the wasteful spending like funding 500,000 dollars to put shrimp on treadmills and wasting it on unnecessary wars like Syria. The interstates have already been paid for by tax dollars and they don't need to be tolled.