If it is continuing behavior from mid 2000's ending in 2011 the 4 year limit does not apply

This^ is correct.
If its a continuing pattern and also under certain very bad circumstances the NCAA can back in time for many years back past the 4 year time frame putting much more on the table for possible punishment.

There is in some states and some states have agent/college-eligible player tampering laws as well.

This is true and I think Oklahoma has laws regarding agents but I would favor a law in OK that goes after boosters who willfully violates rules that cause a university to be put on probation or an athlete to lose their eligibility.

There's another big uo homer named Dean Blevins that doesn't think anything big will come out of this. That doesn't mean nothing will happen. As Dean stated...the statute of limitations is the biggest thing in this deal.

Deano is likely to peg the "nothing will happen" possibility at 61%. Dean is a stickler for numbers.

If all the stuff was going on back then why didn't these folks feel the need to report it at the time they suspected or had evidence. After all we are supposedly an honorable society that reports improper conduct the moment it's observed. If the allegations are true OSU deserves whatever gets in the end. If the allegations are not true, I hope the rain pours on those that are stirring up trouble just for the sake doing it or for the sake of knocking OSU down a peg so there team will be successful.

I understand that whistleblowers need to be protected and encouraged to come forward however, if they wait years to report something disciplinary action should be taken against them as well for not reporting the moment improper conduct is observed. When somebody waits to report something it's almost always in revenge not for the right for the people and the powers that be to know. There is nothing I hate worse than a vindictive rat fink that wants to bring somebody down for the reason that they/the people they support are not doing well.

I think in the end all that will happen is a few fines and the loss of some future prospects for OSU. If anything were serious enough to merit punishment they would have been reported a long time ago.

This is the first of a five-part series:

Sports Illustrated's series on Oklahoma St. football: The Money - College Football - SI.com (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-football/news/20130910/oklahoma-state-part-1-money/)

I admit that I'm probably among the more naive folks regarding certain aspects of the Way The World Works. And I don't know why OSU, of all schools, would end up in SI's gunsites. All that said, I have this sneaking suspicion that you could change the school to "Generic Successful Football University" and change the names to "Generic Coach," and "Generic Players A, B, and C", and you could run virtually this identical story against any big-time school in the country.

Yes, any.

Given that there's every indication Cam Newton was apparently (okay, allegedly) for sale to the highest bidder, but just not enough for the NCAA to do anything about, given that the early-2000's USC program was essentially a high-rent district of its own creation, and that PSU secreted away a child molester under the heralded protection of their beloved JoePa, it's pretty difficult for me to have any illusions about the "purity" of billion-dollar college athletics in general or football in particular.

So...basically accusations of disgruntled players kicked off the team? One of the players isn't even alive.

Weak.

So...basically accusations of disgruntled players kicked off the team? One of the players isn't even alive.

Weak.

Two are dead, but not all were kicked off. Don't stick your head in a sand hole, you'll sufficate.

How about the FCA man admittingly paid players to speak, and stated he had the universities permission, and when the university was asked, they said they didn't give permission.?

This stuff happens in college athletics everywhere, even OSU.

Of course this stuff happens everywhere, that's why this article is so pointless. Take OSU's name out of the title and put pretty much any other successful program in it's place and you'll likely get the same results. I'm not saying it's right, but it happens.

I find it strange how OSU was selected for their unprecedented rise to prominence. Baylor suddenly becoming a good team or Ole Miss somehow getting the top recruiting class out of nowhere after years of terrible ones would have been a better story.

Besides, I'd take anything Thayer Evans writes or says with a grain of salt.

OSU will probably get punished with fines and/or loss of some scholarships, but this isn't SMU level no matter how hard SI tried to play it that way.

Also, I'm not defending Oklahoma State. I really don't care what happens.

I go to OU and yes I realize that OU probably does this stuff too.

there is some fire here at least .. players say

Shaw says he accompanied Williams to DeForest's home on a few occasions and witnessed DeForest giving Williams money for jobs he didn't do. "We'd go over to the house, and [Williams] would fake like he's starting up a lawn mower ... so people could see him," Shaw says. "[Then he'd] cut it off. [He'd] start up a Weed Eater. Cut it off. [For that he'd get] $400, $500, $600."

DeForest says
DeForest says he compensated players who worked at his house but always "paid them fair market value based on services rendered."

OSU Compliance say
(Oklahoma State's compliance office does not have a record of clearing a player to work for DeForest.)

Of course this stuff happens everywhere, that's why this article is so pointless. Take OSU's name out of the title and put pretty much any other successful program in it's place and you'll likely get the same results. I'm not saying it's right, but it happens.

I find it strange how OSU was selected for their unprecedented rise to prominence. Baylor suddenly becoming a good team or Ole Miss somehow getting the top recruiting class out of nowhere after years of terrible ones would have been a better story.

Besides, I'd take anything Thayer Evans writes or says with a grain of salt.

OSU will probably get punished with fines and/or loss of some scholarships, but this isn't SMU level no matter how hard SI tried to play it that way.

... google George Dohrmann and see what you come up with .. he is a pulitzer prize winning investagitive journalist ..

he broke the minnesota scandel he wrote the storiers about ohio st that got tressel fired and about ucla that eventually led to howland getting fired ..

he is not a hack

This is one of the main reasons why I have a hard time with college athletics anymore. I'll stick to the pros, anything goes. Except for PEDs. Kind of.

Call me naive, but cheating should be the exception, not the rule. It's a shame the NCAA is apparently a toothless institution when it comes to enforcement. Has anything happened to Miami? Oregon? Auburn? aTm? North Carolina? Cheating has become very widespread and we can see it before our eyes.

The NCAA has a chance to get things under control, but they're taking a pass. Apparently the only way to get caught now is to self report, as Bob Stoops and OU did after the Bomar fiasco. We self reported and got punished with several lost scholarships. The only other way is if journalists literally deliver the evidence to the NCAA as Yahoo Sports did in its two or three years of writing about USC and the Reggie Bush imbroglio.

And then we see these high profile cases involving blatant pay for play cheating, grade fixing, etc. and nothing happens.

The first thing that should be changed is the four-year statute of limitations. It takes the NCAA so long to conduct investigations that four years is not enough. It encourages cheating: just go four years without getting caught and you're golden.

It's a farce and as a passionate fan of college football, it's affecting my love of the game. We should never accept corruption as the status quo.

The first part (the money) showed nothing during the past four years. We'll have to see what happens with the next four parts of the article.

For Girtman, quarterback hurries were worth $50, a tackle between $75 to $100 and a sack from $200 to $250. Echoing his teammates' claim, Girtman says the rates were told to him by assistant Joe DeForest, who ran the special teams and secondary under coach Les Miles from 2001 to '04, and was the associate head coach, special teams coordinator and safeties coach under current coach Mike Gundy from 2005 to '11. When players met with their position coaches after games, according to Girtman, DeForest would go from group to group and discuss with the players what they had done. "Your stats definitely dictated how much you were getting," Girtman says.


It should be noted that current coach Mike Gundy kicked Girtman off the team in 2005, his first season as head coach, for a violation of team rules.


I'm guessing this is the bounty program that was alleged. What a mess.

The first part (the money) showed nothing during the past four years. We'll have to see what happens with the next four parts of the article.

The first part says the payments continues until at least 2011, so that is within the past four years. That being said... one thing about this article that bugs me is the language. It treats all of these statements as fact, not allegations. But all it is at this point is hearsay. And yes, by mostly disgruntled players. Here's one part that stuck out to me...


In 2006 an internal investigation at Oklahoma revealed that Sooners quarterback Rhett Bomar and offensive lineman J.D. Quinn worked a few hours a week at a car dealership but filed padded time sheets and collected thousands of dollars in unearned income. The players were dismissed from the team in a scandal that rocked Norman. But the Sooners' violations paled next to the bogus jobs 83 miles away, in Stillwater.

Why even mention OU?

Thayer Evans has a history of one sided "scoops" with no evidence, single sourced, declaring rumor as fact. He's done it with Texas, with Florida (declared Cam Newton a cheater). And for some reason, for years Thayer Evans has seemed to have a personal problem with OSU's success, and has constantly attacked, and ridiculed them, and has been trying to prove they'd fall apart. Some of his past OSU quotes...


Even the rest of the college football world knows Gundy is bound for a debacle. It’s the unspoken reason no one is worried about the Cowboys winning the Big 12 championship, let alone the national title, this season.


Everyone is just waiting for Chokie State to once again live up to its nickname under Gundy.


And if this season is going to be any different for Gundy, even one of his best players can’t tell you why. When asked why people should believe that Oklahoma State won’t disappoint, Weeden was at a loss for words.

“I don’t know,” Weeden said. “We’re not worried about it.”

Weeden actually makes a good point. You can’t worry about what’s inevitable.

Does the messenger changed the validity of the message? Maybe not. If the accusations are valid, then certain there are problems, and they need to be fixed. However... George Dohrman and Thayer Evans both have past histories of playing "let me show you where the bad man touched you" in order to get their "scoops".

Looks like the Orange Pride girls at osu have given a whole new meaning to the words "Pistols Firing" in aggwater.

Compilation of former Oklahoma State player tweets on Part 1 of Sports Illustrated investigation | News OK (http://newsok.com/compilation-of-former-oklahoma-state-player-tweets-on-part-1-of-sports-illustrated-investigation/article/3881286)

Yes, Thayer being an OU grad (I think) and a former Sooner Illustrated writer certainly raises a little bit of a red flag but the quotes are still quotes in this story. Speaking of the quotes, out of the 12 former players in the story, 7 were dismissed from team and 2 left. So theres a little background on it.

As for todays story, a lot of he said she said, hearsay type allegations that Im not sure how you prove. It claims that it went on to 2011 yet the stories are from earlier than that. So im not really worried about some harsh ncaa sanctions. The only thing that could be bad regarding the NCAA is the academic part that isnt out yet. The sex and drugs part...so what...might look bad but sex and drugs are apart of college life.

This is obviously going to stir up talk and debate but so far to me, theres nothing that Im too worried about since I doubt the validity of these stories and I dont think there is anything yet to merit a penalty. There has to be some form of proof. Its also interesting that its less than average players saying they were paid. Several better players have gone on the radio or made FB posts saying none of this is true. Why were OSU boosters paying only the scrubs?

Thayer Evans is not an OU grad.

He did write for Sooners Illustrated from 2003-06 but that was as a freelancer. He's written for lots of publications in his career.

https://twitter.com/OrangePowerCom/status/377471688423661568/photo/1

Hrm... one of the "sources" is denying saying what the article states.

Yes, Thayer being an OU grad (I think) and a former Sooner Illustrated writer certainly raises a little bit of a red flag but the quotes are still quotes in this story. Speaking of the quotes, out of the 12 former players in the story, 7 were dismissed from team and 2 left. So theres a little background on it.

As for todays story, a lot of he said she said, hearsay type allegations that Im not sure how you prove. It claims that it went on to 2011 yet the stories are from earlier than that. So im not really worried about some harsh ncaa sanctions. The only thing that could be bad regarding the NCAA is the academic part that isnt out yet. The sex and drugs part...so what...might look bad but sex and drugs are apart of college life.

This is obviously going to stir up talk and debate but so far to me, theres nothing that Im too worried about since I doubt the validity of these stories and I dont think there is anything yet to merit a penalty. There has to be some form of proof. Its also interesting that its less than average players saying they were paid. Several better players have gone on the radio or made FB posts saying none of this is true. Why were OSU boosters paying only the scrubs?

Oh, I expect there is a case of "smoke and fire" here. I'm sure at least some of the allegations have truth behind them. The question will be how institutionalized it was. We do know that Gundy "cleaned house" in 2006, so I wonder how much of that related to these allegations.

Gundy didn't clean house of DeForest, who seems to be a central figure.

He didn't leave until 2011.

Thayer Evans is not an OU grad.

He did write for Sooners Illustrated from 2003-06 but that was a freelancer. He's written for lots of publications in his career.

Didnt hear it, just read some tweets but apparently national sports writer Jason Whitlock, who used to work with Thayer at FoxSports, just destroyed Thayer on the Sports Animal, calling him a hack and huge OU homer. I know I know, dont attack the messenger...

I saw that. My point wasn't really that they were perfect post 2006. It was that the fact that Gundy kicked off multiple players for "unspecified violations" and "not following team rules" might lend some credence to these accusations.

When Gundy was contimplating leaving a couple of years ago, wonder if all of this was a factor ?

When Gundy was contimplating leaving a couple of years ago, wonder if all of this was a factor ?

That in two years someone might contact former dismissed players to put together a hit piece on the program..? If he'd known this was true he could have left, he had the offers. So Id say no, this wasnt a factor. Id probably say he contemplated leaving more because the schools coming after him were good ones and that he could also use it as leverage in contract negotiations and to try to send a message to Holder about scheduling differences.

Some that is worrying...


DeForest says he compensated players who worked at his house but always "paid them fair market value based on services rendered."

Since it's against the rules for players to work at coaches' houses, this at least seems pretty cut and dried.

However, one big thing I saw...


Shaw says that after he decided to attend Oklahoma State in 2001 as a senior at Shawnee (Okla.) High, a booster gave him between $400 and $500.

Shaw committed to OU in high school... not OSU.

It's always the disgruntled that do you in, that turn into whistle-blowers.

Everyone else is too busy benefitting from the situation and has too much to lose; at the very least their own reputation.


It's true with business and other things as well, not just college sports.

I'm not saying all these allegations are true, just pointing out that even in factual situations it's almost always the disenchanted that bring you down.

This was on NewsOK showing tweets from former players.... I'm thinking a few of these guys skipped out on English Comp. classes.

Compilation of former Oklahoma State player tweets on Part 1 of Sports Illustrated investigation | News OK (http://newsok.com/compilation-of-former-oklahoma-state-player-tweets-on-part-1-of-sports-illustrated-investigation/article/3881286)

This was on NewsOK showing tweets from former players.... I'm thinking a few of these guys skipped out on English Comp. classes.

Compilation of former Oklahoma State player tweets on Part 1 of Sports Illustrated investigation | News OK (http://newsok.com/compilation-of-former-oklahoma-state-player-tweets-on-part-1-of-sports-illustrated-investigation/article/3881286)

That, or it's hard to be grammatically correct on an iphone.

This was on NewsOK showing tweets from former players.... I'm thinking a few of these guys skipped out on English Comp. classes.

Compilation of former Oklahoma State player tweets on Part 1 of Sports Illustrated investigation | News OK (http://newsok.com/compilation-of-former-oklahoma-state-player-tweets-on-part-1-of-sports-illustrated-investigation/article/3881286)

Those were definitely hard to read, but welcoming to what is accepted these days.

I can't say much on skipping out on English classes though. My freshman year at OU I only attended one for a couple weeks, did one of five course projects, and then spent the rest of the time being an immature kid drinking and going out. Yet somehow I still got a B for the course while only doing 20% of the work.

lol


Oklahoma State Reacts to Sports Illustrated Article - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyfPLqiF01k&feature=youtu.be)

Ha, your over-the-top dramatics, whether positive for ou or negative for osu, is always pretty funny.just for you

The Sports Illustrated report has dropped. OSU fans have some good excuses. | The Lost Ogle (http://www.thelostogle.com/2013/09/10/the-sports-illustrated-report-has-dropped-osu-fans-have-some-good-excuses/)

And now this...


SI Reports: 2001: Seymore Shaw says head coach Les Miles introduced him to OSU booster Kay Norris, who paid Shaw $400 to take a Christmas tree out of the attic and paid him $700 “numerous” times to clean the floorboards of rental houses, which took about an hour to complete.
Barry Tramel: This is unlike all the other allegations in that I knew Kay Norris, who died in 2006. Her son, Chris, has told The Oklahoman that the Norrises have no rental houses, at least not this side of Broken Bow.

Even if everyone else is telling the truth, pretty much everything Shaw says should be dismissed. First he said that an OSU Booster game him money when he committed to OSU in High School (He committed to OU in High School and reported to preseason camp at OU - He transferred to OSU later) and now this.

just for you

The Sports Illustrated report has dropped. OSU fans have some good excuses. | The Lost Ogle (http://www.thelostogle.com/2013/09/10/the-sports-illustrated-report-has-dropped-osu-fans-have-some-good-excuses/)

Thanks but had already read it. You seem to relishing in this a little too much considering past transgressions of your true love, OU.

Thanks but had already read it. You seem to relishing in this a little too much considering past transgressions of your true love, OU.How long will it be before the first Poke fans start jumping ship?

just for you

The Sports Illustrated report has dropped. OSU fans have some good excuses. | The Lost Ogle (http://www.thelostogle.com/2013/09/10/the-sports-illustrated-report-has-dropped-osu-fans-have-some-good-excuses/)

Does this make you feel so superior? I understand being a huge fan of college football but I honestly don't get the fans just like you (on both sides). Not being a native Oklahoman (I went to OSU for grad school and was an OSU fan prior to that), I don't understand why it seems you feel the need to get so wrapped up in this stuff. I honestly hope that everything in these articles was made up. I'll be hugely disappointed if it turns out to be true. But for you to come on this board (and I'm sure there are other boards as well) and be a giant [donkey] does you no credit.

https://twitter.com/OrangePowerCom/status/377471688423661568/photo/1

Hrm... one of the "sources" is denying saying what the article states.

I am sure that SI recorded the interviews. Maybe they will make them public.

Does this make you feel so superior? I understand being a huge fan of college football but I honestly don't get the fans just like you (on both sides). Not being a native Oklahoman (I went to OSU for grad school and was an OSU fan prior to that), I don't understand why it seems you feel the need to get so wrapped up in this stuff. I honestly hope that everything in these articles was made up. I'll be hugely disappointed if it turns out to be true. But for you to come on this board (and I'm sure there are other boards as well) and be a giant [donkey] does you no credit.Lots of people have been in total denial about what has been going on at OSU for years.
I along with may others have been hearing many rumors from several sources about OSU for years.
There are more than a few people including some on this board who have needed to pull their head out for a long time with regard to what has been an on going problem at OSU... Some of these people have done nothing but make excuses for OSU which only makes the issues worse.

We will see how long it take to start seeing the OSU faithful to focus attention where it really needs to be focused and that is right in the mirror. It not a people like me or the writers and it not making the excuses that everybody else does it

I am sure that SI recorded the interviews. Maybe they will make them public.

I hope so too. Either one of the SI sources is lying (now), or SI is lying.

Ignore ou, he didn't even go to college.

A player cleaned the wooden floors of a late Stillwater woman's rent houses, for hundred$ for each of them, but the son said on KWTV she had no rent houses in Stillwater. One of the best things that can come out of this ridiculousness is that SI get so discredited, it will decide it must pull the final parts of it's dubious story.

Lots of people have been in total denial about what has been going on at OSU for years.
I along with may others have been hearing many rumors from several sources about OSU for years.
There are more than a few people including some on this board who have needed to pull their head out for a long time with regard to what has been an on going problem at OSU... Some of these people have done nothing but make excuses for OSU which only makes the issues worse.

We will see how long it take to start seeing the OSU faithful to focus attention where it really needs to be focused and that is right in the mirror. It not a people like me or the writers and it not making the excuses that everybody else does it
In other words, the former players now doing the denying or insist no awareness of what was going on are the real liars, such as Josh Fields, who said his parents took good care of him.

Ignore ou, he didn't even go to college.

You can ignore me all you want... I do not care.... but many people have been talking about the rumors of very serious wrong doing at OSU for about 10 years...
Obviously some of you are not in the loop. Oh and I did graduate from college as if that make an ounce of difference.

In other words, the former players now doing the denying or insist no awareness of what was going on are the real liars, such as Josh Fields, who said his parents took good care of him.

SI says that it has all of its sources on tape.
But as normal, on a deal like this, after the fact, some will lie about even talking to people.

"that involved at least one assistant coach and several boosters."

It does seem like assistant coaches are the most common perpetrators on staff. Boosters - the bane of amateur athletics. Most of them need to get a life.

Looks like the Orange Pride girls at osu have given a whole new meaning to the words "Pistols Firing" in aggwater.
Recently osu has been jokingly referred to as Boone State. That will now be changed to Bone State.

1. Denial
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance

The poke nation is definitely in stage 1. As for me it's kind of sad we don't get this kind of in-depth investigative journalism on subjects that truly matter instead of an extracurricular college activity.

Should be interesting.

I haven't read the entire story, but OSU has had some really shady characters on its staff, such as Trooper Taylor. Also, OSU has had very close ties to Will Lyles, the recruiting "agent" who got Oregon in trouble.

Gundy has cut ties with Taylor, and apparently Lyles, but OSU's recruiting of the Houston area definitely improved while they were associated with them.

Actually, this story seems to be the tip of the iceberg as to what's been "out there" for several years. There's a lot of smoke. OSU really seems to have dodged a bullet on the Will Lyles stuff, although more could come out once the NCAA starts digging.

How long will it be before the first Poke fans start jumping ship?

You must not know anything about OSU to think that fans will start jumping ship. I realize we have gained quit a few bandwagon fans over the past couple of years, but by and large OSU fans are some of the most Loyal and True fans you will find. We were here when our record was 3-8 and were a laughing stock of college football, and we will be here long after.

Looks like the Orange Pride girls at osu have given a whole new meaning to the words "Pistols Firing" in aggwater.
Something that has been going on forever, a friend made the recruiting rounds in the early 80's and he said (pre-death penalty) SMU and Ole Miss took it to a different level. There are stories about the similar group at UT, I can't remember the name of it but there was some involvement in the Cleve Bryant scandal a few years ago. There are segments of the population who would do such things for the attention of athletes, musicians, etc. and that is what tends to populate these type of groups. A former co-worker of mine in Austin was in that group, now married to a former UT diver.

In trying to play devils advocate, it eems there are an awful lot of former OSU players who are denying ever seeing any of this happen or denying saying what SI wrote they said. Aso Pogi was mentioned as one who was quoted in the SI allegations but he says he never said what SI is quoting him as saying - he was misquoted. As for SI saying they have recordings of everyone they interviewed, perhaps they do, but anyone who watched NBC in the last presidential election knows that recordings can be altered and manipulated to say most anything you want them to say. I'm an OU fan but I hope this blows up in SI's face and proves to be greatly fabricated. It's certainly not good for our state.

On the other hand, what might be the motive for some former players to lie? Were there those who had a grudge against Miles and his crew?

From all that I have read I am a bit skeptical as well. Having been around OU at the end of Switzer's tenure and some friends who were players I know a lot of what was reported in the media was not accurate and a the big stories were sensationalized well beyond what they should have been and some of the things printed were absolutely false.

Looking at the names that I have seen it would seem that there are some axes to grind by some. Just doesn't seem like some things are "right" with this story.

You must not know anything about OSU to think that fans will start jumping ship. I realize we have gained quit a few bandwagon fans over the past couple of years, but by and large OSU fans are some of the most Loyal and True fans you will find. We were here when our record was 3-8 and were a laughing stock of college football, and we will be here long after.


Oh yes, I remember all those 30,000 some sell out poke crowds back in the day.

Oh yes, I remember all those 30,000 some sell out poke crowds back in the day.

And if I didn't follow the games on TV, I could tell how OU did on any given week depending on how quick car flags disappear or reappear. What's your point?

Yeah, there might be a small percentage of "fair weather" fans, but the majority of the OSU fan base are either alum, or long term fans, who are used to dark days.

And if I didn't follow the games on TV, I could tell how OU did on any given week depending on how quick car flags disappear or reappear. What's your point?

Yeah, there might be a small percentage of "fair weather" fans, but the majority of the OSU fan base are either alum, or long term fans, who are used to dark days.

jerry, I have gone to more OU games that ou48A and for a longer time and I agree with you. Some fans just have a myopic view of things that have happened in the past.

jerry, I have gone to more OU games that ou48A and for a longer time and I agree with you. Some fans just have a myopic view of things that have happened in the past.I have sat in the stands at OSU with crowds in to 20,000 to 30,000 range.
Every major university has its loyal core of fan support but lets not act like it a large amount because when compared to the major traditional powers the core of loyal OSU fan isn't very large. To think that its large is truly myopic.

At the end of the day and after all this is done several years from now OSU and its supporters are likely going to be better off for going though this.
That doesn’t mean this is not going to be painful or 100% right but the quicker everybody at OSU including the average fan starts insisting on very high standards and changing the culture the quicker this will be put behind them and out of this a stronger better OSU will emerge