Actually, if they build in OKC, it would still be unique to Tulsa. Tulsa and OKC are different cities and their borders are not even close. I'm not sure why this is hard to understand. If they meant it as being unique to Oklahoma, they would have said "unique to Oklahoma".

Technically then, Costco wouldn't qualify as "unique to Tulsa" because there are hundreds of Costco stores in other places besides Tulsa, so the store in Tulsa won't be "unique to Tulsa," except in the interpretation that it will be the only one in Tulsa. That is why there has to be some implication as to on what level is the store "unique to Tulsa." That phrase IS open to interpretation, but the interpretation that makes the most sense is on the city level. I agree that having stores in OKC eventually should not disqualify the Tulsa store from the incentives in this case.

I have a hard time grasping why someone would drive to Tulsa, yet anywhere 1.5 to 2 hours, for just Costco. Unless you live in a rural area
Even though I live in OKC, I'd still drive to check out the location. I go to Carrollton once or twice a year to a Korean supermarket (called H-Mart) because as I'm sure you're all aware Oklahoma only has four-ish tiny Korean markets.

But back to Costco, I'd probably do the same thing; maybe once or twice a year until OKC gets one. I'm so sick of Sam's Club.

Technically then, Costco wouldn't qualify as "unique to Tulsa" because there are hundreds of Costco stores in other places besides Tulsa, so the store in Tulsa won't be "unique to Tulsa," except in the interpretation that it will be the only one in Tulsa. That is why there has to be some implication as to on what level is the store "unique to Tulsa." That phrase IS open to interpretation, but the interpretation that makes the most sense is on the city level. I agree that having stores in OKC eventually should not disqualify the Tulsa store from the incentives in this case.

Why are you even arguing if you agree that it is meaning it is unique to Tulsa not unique to Oklahoma? Are you just typing to get the last word?

My apologies, but after rereading your post, I see we were basically saying the same things, but I just was going the long away around to get to what you said, more succinctly. I do tend to be a bit verbose. Sorry about misunderstanding your point.


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As far as drawing "out of state" shoppers Tulsa is fairly close to three other states so it could be a fairly easy draw. I don't think there are Costco stores in NWA or Joplin.

Do you have any facts supporting this? You've said it multiple times, but I have yet to find someone who actually does it.

I am one. So are 8 of my coworkers.

I've never heard of anyone going to Dallas for Costco. I do know of people who have driven to go to stores like Versace, Louis Vuitton, Gucci.... etc.

Again I am one so are the rest of my 8 coworkers. Not to just shop at costco but it was a definite stop. And we always figured when costco sees credit card registered in okc being used in Dallas. It will eventually bring some attention.

I am one. So are 8 of my coworkers.

You and eight of your coworkers drive 2 hours to shop in Tulsa? Where?

You and eight of your coworkers drive 2 hours to shop in Tulsa? Where?

I am talking about going Dallas. And not together. Usually with our respective family.

I am talking about going Dallas. And not together. Usually with our respective family.

I was under the impression we were talking about Tulsa still...

Official announcement. Costco in Tulsa. Guess the saying "Tulsa class OKC trash" may have some truth behind it. As always, Tulsa first then maybe OKC. Still waiting for The Fresh Market to open a store in OKC. Not sure why they have one in Tulsa and not OKC. Sigh...

At least, I can use my membership there. Won't have to drive down to Dallas anymore.

I remember going to Tulsa for Whole Foods before there was one in OKC. I remember specifically taking day trips out there with the main reason to go to Whole Foods.

For those of you that think I am crazy for doing so, it may be irrational, yet it satisfies something inside of me. Call me a snob, call me what you will. Once you live someplace with upscale options, its difficult to go back to something mediocre. So, I will go out of my way to satisfy that "hunger" for upscale options. While costco isn't spectacular, it's quite a step above Sams club. I will not shop at Sams club when I have Costco as an option. They treat their employees well, they have a great return policy, their items are better quality than Sams, and they pay their employees very well. This makes for a much more pleasant buying experience and I would much rather spend my money to a place that has decent ethics.

Classifying Costco as "class" or "upscale" means you need to get out more. I don't shop at Walmart, but that doesn't mean my life is incomplete without Costco. It's a big box discount store, nothing more.

Yikes, all this vitriol over a Costco. I don't get it. It's just a bulk goods wholesaler... that Oprah likes. Big deal. lol

Official announcement. Costco in Tulsa. Guess the saying "Tulsa class OKC trash" may have some truth behind it. As always, Tulsa first then maybe OKC. Still waiting for The Fresh Market to open a store in OKC. Not sure why they have one in Tulsa and not OKC. Sigh...

At least, I can use my membership there. Won't have to drive down to Dallas anymore.

I remember going to Tulsa for Whole Foods before there was one in OKC. I remember specifically taking day trips out there with the main reason to go to Whole Foods.

For those of you that think I am crazy for doing so, it may be irrational, yet it satisfies something inside of me. Call me a snob, call me what you will. Once you live someplace with upscale options, its difficult to go back to something mediocre. So, I will go out of my way to satisfy that "hunger" for upscale options. While costco isn't spectacular, it's quite a step above Sams club. I will not shop at Sams club when I have Costco as an option. They treat their employees well, they have a great return policy, their items are better quality than Sams, and they pay their employees very well. This makes for a much more pleasant buying experience and I would much rather spend my money to a place that has decent ethics.

+1

I am just going to say that for a supposedly "up and coming" city like OKC, its disappointing to see it continually take a back seat to little ole Tulsa. Costco and Trader Joe's are by no means high end, at least in my opinion, but once you've had them its difficult to go back to Wally World.

+1

I am just going to say that for a supposedly "up and coming" city like OKC, its disappointing to see it continually take a back seat to little ole Tulsa. Costco and Trader Joe's are by no means high end, at least in my opinion, but once you've had them its difficult to go back to Wally World.
It's disappointing to see you suffer in this city when you could just move to someplace less disappointing to you ... I mean, seriously, if Oklahoma City is so wretched to you, why are you still here?

Costco is already looking for another site for a 2nd store in the Tulsa market. They said at the announcement yesterday that it will be in the city not the suburbs.

Costco is already looking for another site for a 2nd store in the Tulsa market. They said at the announcement yesterday that it will be in the city not the suburbs.

Do you have evidence of this? You also said previously that Pappadeaux is also coming to Tulsa but I have searched the Internet and haven't even found speculation of that other than your posts here and on TulsaNow. If its true, that would be an extra slap in the face to OKC if Tulsa ended up with two Costco locations before we even get our first. I have doubts though. Cities like Memphis and Birmingham only have a single Costco. Charlotte only has two locations and its exactly double the size of OKC.

If people are driving more than 30 minutes to shop at a warehouse then.... hell, I can't even come up with an analogy of how sad that is. All I can say is, a lot of people need to set their sights a little higher.

people who drive to Dallas to go to Ikea or a mall, or drive 100 miles to get overpriced organic food (while we're at it, people who drive to DFW to save $150 on airfare)...i don't even have the words...

people who drive to Dallas to go to Ikea or a mall, or drive 100 miles to get overpriced organic food (while we're at it, people who drive to DFW to save $150 on airfare)...i don't even have the words...

I totally agree, Brad. It blows my mind that to some people those things are worth a drive.

people who drive to Dallas to go to Ikea or a mall, or drive 100 miles to get overpriced organic food (while we're at it, people who drive to DFW to save $150 on airfare)...i don't even have the words...

OKC is pretty much a retail desert. Its understandable why people would go to Tulsa or Dallas to shop especially if they are transplants and are accustomed to better options. Prior to Whole Foods opening in OKC, you pretty much had to go to Tulsa or Dallas to get certain things. There was no Uptown Grocery, Sprouts, or Crest Fresh Market either. If you couldn't find it at Wal-Mart or Homeland, you had to go to at least Tulsa.

OKC is pretty much a retail desert. Its understandable why people would go to Tulsa or Dallas to shop especially if they are transplants and are accustomed to better options. Prior to Whole Foods opening in OKC, you pretty much had to go to Tulsa or Dallas to get certain things. There was no Uptown Grocery, Sprouts, or Crest Fresh Market either. If you couldn't find it at Wal-Mart or Homeland, you had to go to at least Tulsa.

It's called the internet - everything can be delivered.

Amazon.com: Online Shopping for Electronics, Apparel, Computers, Books, DVDs & more (http://www.amazon.com)

OKC is pretty much a retail desert. Its understandable why people would go to Tulsa or Dallas to shop especially if they are transplants and are accustomed to better options. Prior to Whole Foods opening in OKC, you pretty much had to go to Tulsa or Dallas to get certain things. There was no Uptown Grocery, Sprouts, or Crest Fresh Market either. If you couldn't find it at Wal-Mart or Homeland, you had to go to at least Tulsa.

Crest Fresh Market - Home of Rock Bottom Prices (http://www.crestfoodsok.com/crests-history.aspx)

people who drive to Dallas to go to Ikea or a mall, or drive 100 miles to get overpriced organic food (while we're at it, people who drive to DFW to save $150 on airfare)...i don't even have the words...

I understand the drive to DFW in some cases. By the time you connect through a hub, it may be quicker to drive to DFW and take non-stop flight. Also, $150 x family of five is $750 savings. My wife has also driven to Wichita to take Airtrans flights with the kids as they were significantly cheaper. She could save 500-1000 dollars on Airfare by using 40 dollars worth of diesel in the jetta


edit...to make on topic..... If they fly out of DFW...they can hit Costco on the way home

OKC is pretty much a retail desert. Its understandable why people would go to Tulsa or Dallas to shop especially if they are transplants and are accustomed to better options. Prior to Whole Foods opening in OKC, you pretty much had to go to Tulsa or Dallas to get certain things. There was no Uptown Grocery, Sprouts, or Crest Fresh Market either. If you couldn't find it at Wal-Mart or Homeland, you had to go to at least Tulsa.

Sorry, I put a value on my time and driving and wasting gas for a couple of items (that there is a 99.9% chance I can find a substitute for) is just ridiculous.

Sorry, I put a value on my time and driving and wasting gas for a couple of items (that there is a 99.9% chance I can find a substitute for) is just ridiculous.

I personally have never driven to Tulsa or even DFW to shop since I've been here, but its totally understandable why somebody would. When I lived in Little Rock I would drive to Memphis to spend a weekend shopping and enjoying the nightlife and so did a lot of people I knew.

W O W


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I'm sure the amount of people driving to Dallas to shop has drastically decreased since you can now get almost anything through the Internet.

I'm sure the malls are busy during OU/Texas weekend but that's not the same as going there specifically to shop, which used to be somewhat common.

I used to go the Century Center quite a bit (it's 30-mile drive) for the Bloomingdale's and Container Store but haven't been in over a year and when I do go it's only because I'm in the area for other reasons. Also, there is a huge Saks in Orange County that I used to love and I haven't been there in at least 3-4 years.

Do you have evidence of this? You also said previously that Pappadeaux is also coming to Tulsa but I have searched the Internet and haven't even found speculation of that other than your posts here and on TulsaNow. If its true, that would be an extra slap in the face to OKC if Tulsa ended up with two Costco locations before we even get our first. I have doubts though. Cities like Memphis and Birmingham only have a single Costco. Charlotte only has two locations and its exactly double the size of OKC.

Please don't say "we" when referring to OKC.

Do you have evidence of this? You also said previously that Pappadeaux is also coming to Tulsa but I have searched the Internet and haven't even found speculation of that other than your posts here and on TulsaNow. If its true, that would be an extra slap in the face to OKC if Tulsa ended up with two Costco locations before we even get our first. I have doubts though. Cities like Memphis and Birmingham only have a single Costco. Charlotte only has two locations and its exactly double the size of OKC.

Pappadeaux is still looking. The deal fell through at the Midtown Village. It was Steve McArthur the realtor for Costco that talked about another location in the city of Tulsa.

I understand the drive to DFW in some cases. By the time you connect through a hub, it may be quicker to drive to DFW and take non-stop flight. Also, $150 x family of five is $750 savings. My wife has also driven to Wichita to take Airtrans flights with the kids as they were significantly cheaper. She could save 500-1000 dollars on Airfare by using 40 dollars worth of diesel in the jetta


edit...to make on topic..... If they fly out of DFW...they can hit Costco on the way home

I know this is not always the case, but on some of my family's trips to the East Coast, I priced out options departing OKC via American and just driving to Dallas and flying on the same flight. In those cases, the flight was cheaper departing OKC. Explain that.

My apologies, but after rereading your post, I see we were basically saying the same things, but I just was going the long away around to get to what you said, more succinctly. I do tend to be a bit verbose. Sorry about misunderstanding your point.


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All good. I'm just mad because you stepped in and took the heat off of bchris after he was proven wrong. He didn't even have to admit he was wrong because the conversation shifted and the attention was off him.

Please don't say "we" when referring to OKC.
+1

BTW, Costco is looking at opening more than one location in OKC as well.

BTW, Costco is looking at opening more than one location in OKC as well.
Now, now, don't let the facts get in the way of the lamentations and OKC-bashing.

This conversation is fascinating and sad.

I know this is not always the case, but on some of my family's trips to the East Coast, I priced out options departing OKC via American and just driving to Dallas and flying on the same flight. In those cases, the flight was cheaper departing OKC. Explain that.

You can't, no one can explain airline pricing, not even the people that create it :)

people who drive to Dallas to go to Ikea or a mall, or drive 100 miles to get overpriced organic food (while we're at it, people who drive to DFW to save $150 on airfare)...i don't even have the words...

If a family of four goes to Dallas for airfare and saves between 700-1000, it begins to add up. Logical rational money saving.

As for for overpriced organic food. Again, once you used to a certain quality, it's hard to go back. People do "go back" but at a cost. Thankfully, there are options and for those that are hungry for quality will go the distance. Usually, those type of people have disposable income. As sad as that may be, it's true.

OKC has done a great job in the last 5-10 years, but if they are lagging behind Tulsa which has a considerably smaller population, then something is wrong. OKC is in the process of fixing this but it sure is taking a long time. It should be OKC having options that Tulsa doesn't have. Not the other way around. Am I incorrect to think this? Was it dumb for Chesapeake to pay Whole Foods to come here?

OKC has done a great job in the last 5-10 years, but if they are lagging behind Tulsa which has a considerably smaller population, then something is wrong. OKC is in the process of fixing this but it sure is taking a long time. It should be OKC having options that Tulsa doesn't have. Not the other way around. Am I incorrect to think this? Was it dumb for Chesapeake to pay Whole Foods to come here?

I assume you are talking about groceries?

Whole Foods did not expand to Tulsa... They inherited an old Wild Oats store when they bought that company years ago.

Sprouts came to OKC first; even Natural Grocers was in Norman before they went to Tulsa.

OKC is getting a second Uptown Grocery (nicer than anything in Tulsa) and likely the state's first Trader Joe's.

So, how exactly is OKC lagging Tulsa?

OKC has done a great job in the last 5-10 years, but if they are lagging behind Tulsa which has a considerably smaller population, then something is wrong. OKC is in the process of fixing this but it sure is taking a long time. It should be OKC having options that Tulsa doesn't have. Not the other way around. Am I incorrect to think this?

What options? Paper towels at Costco instead of Sams?

The supposed gap between OKC and Tulsa in terms of retail may have been true at one point but its ridiculous and untrue to keep pushing it at this point. Its been disproven several times on here so I won't even try to list it again.

It has already been hashed numerous times but it's too bad you won't be able to buy wine and liquor in the Oklahoma stores, unless they are using some loophole. That's one of the best things about Costco. Other than that it's just a nicer Sam's Club.

This first store will have an attached liquor store, but under current law Costco will only be allowed one location selling liquor.

This first store will have an attached liquor store, but under current law Costco will only be allowed one location selling liquor.

I am guessing they found a local partner? Oklahoma law requires any liquor store to be a sole proprietorship and the owner to have lived in the state for at least ten years. This prevents chains from setting up detached liquor stores like they do in other states. I heard Trader Joe's had figured out a way around it and I am guessing that is also what Costco may be doing. However, being that they will only have one with liquor, does this also mean the OKC location, if it happens, will not have an attached liquor store?

Seriously, if we're going to look at bragging rights between the two cities, the Thunder trump anything that Tulsa could "get", short of an NFL team. Certainly not a grocery store or discount store.

Comparing the two is just silly.

seriously, if we're going to look at bragging rights between the two cities, the thunder trump anything that tulsa could "get", short of an nfl team. Certainly not a grocery store or discount store.

Comparing the two is just silly.
Checkmate!

I would also say that retail offerings in both cities is lacking and that both should set their sites higher then just comparing to each other.

I'm sure the amount of people driving to Dallas to shop has drastically decreased since you can now get almost anything through the Internet.

I agree with you Pete. I do 90% of my retail shopping now on-line. I hardly ever go to a store to buy shoes or shirts. I only buy jeans/pants in stores, and I have a lot more shirts than pants. Everything else I buy on-line or at Lowe's. I am happy. Nothing more needs to come to OKC.

OKC has done a great job in the last 5-10 years, but if they are lagging behind Tulsa which has a considerably smaller population, then something is wrong. OKC is in the process of fixing this but it sure is taking a long time. It should be OKC having options that Tulsa doesn't have. Not the other way around. Am I incorrect to think this? Was it dumb for Chesapeake to pay Whole Foods to come here?

You are perfectly correct and logical to think this way. Given the economy and momentum in OKC there is no reason this city should still be lagging Tulsa in any meaningful way.

Of course OKC has the Thunder and Tulsa does not. The exposure that has brought to OKC and the wonders its done for downtown cannot be understated. However, there is more to being a great city with a great quality of life than having pro-sports. That's part of the puzzle but its only one piece. Austin has zero pro-sports and its currently one of the most desirable places to live in the US.

Of course Costco is also based in Seattle. I'm sure the Thunder issue didn't play into it at all....lol

Of course Costco is also based in Seattle. I'm sure the Thunder issue didn't play into it at all....lol

Didn't think of that. That is a possibility.

OKC is getting a second Uptown Grocery (nicer than anything in Tulsa) and likely the state's first Trader Joe's.


IMO Whole Foods is nicer, and the newest Tulsa WF is really nice. I agree Uptown Grocery is a great store though and hopefully they continue to expand in the metro. There is a store in Tulsa called Fresh Market (from North Carolina) that reminded me of Trader Joe's, similar small size, good selection of produce and lots of packaged items. I think they would do well in OKC/Norman as an alternative to the eventual Trader Joe's. I'm really just not that impressed by TJ's but I know some people love it.

I'm really just not that impressed by TJ's but I know some people love it.

I wasn't impressed either until I finally "got it" after several trips.

Was just in there last night and I go more often than even the regular grocery store (which for me is a very nice Ralph's).

It's not only awesome, most of what they carry is unique to their stores, so completely new offerings when they come to a new market.

Didn't think of that. That is a possibility.

But unlikely. Most Seattleites are cool with Oklahoma City (other than both places being flaming opposites) and hold no ill will against the city because of that. If all Seattle had was the SuperSonics and Seattle was a struggling city, it might make a small bit of sense; but from a business standpoint, it's completely illogical and ignorant to avoid a city because a businessman bought a struggling team from an already greedy owner and relocated the team to that city.

Oklahoma City has a Nordstrom Rack. Can anyone make an educated guess where Nordstrom is based?

But unlikely. Most Seattleites are cool with Oklahoma City (other than both places being flaming opposites) and hold no ill will against the city because of that. If all Seattle had was the SuperSonics and Seattle was a struggling city, it might make a small bit of sense; but from a business standpoint, it's completely illogical and ignorant to avoid a city because a businessman bought a struggling team from an already greedy owner and relocated the team to that city.

Oklahoma City has a Nordstrom Rack. Can anyone make an educated guess where Nordstrom is based?

Well, said. Should Seattle also hate every city with Boeing employees? Real adults who make important decisions aren't concerned with where the Thunder play.

If people are driving more than 30 minutes to shop at a warehouse then.... hell, I can't even come up with an analogy of how sad that is. All I can say is, a lot of people need to set their sights a little higher.

Amen. And if they think it is "upscale" or sign of social progress, it is even more amazing...amazingly sad. The fact we are obsessing over a warehouse store and who gets one first seems kind of 7th grade creepy.

Amen. And if they think it is "upscale" or sign of social progress, it is even more amazing...amazingly sad. The fact we are obsessing over a warehouse store and who gets one first seems kind of 7th grade creepy.

Just because some people don't like or need Costco doesn't mean people who want it are 7th grade creepy. It seems to be the attitude with some around here regarding things that are lacking that if its not here it must not be worth having and those who complain about it (or drive to Dallas or Tulsa) are snobs or spoiled. I personally don't have the income to afford Louis Vuitton or Gucci, but if one of those stores were announced for OKC I would be very excited because that is indeed a sign of progress.

What is funny is that I used to commute to Riverside, CA to work. I knew a bunch of people there who were excited that Sams Club was opening. I guess we all want what we don't have. If Costco floats your boat, great. But it isn't the sign that OKC has arrived, or someone else has arrived first. Lots of small and relatively poor areas have Costcos. Now, if Bloomingdales or Nordstroms opens here, that is a sign that there is enough economic power in the city to encourage others to come. If Tulsa gets a Nordstroms and we don't, then let's talk about how Tulsa always gets the best first. Til then, arguing about prestige of who is first to get a Costco IS kind of weird.

By far the biggest and nicest new retailer to come to Oklahoma in quite some time is Von Maur, yet that gets conveniently dismissed by those committed to taking the negative view.

I agree Pete. It will be the best department store in the state and a great get for QS Mall.

By far the biggest and nicest new retailer to come to Oklahoma in quite some time is Von Maur, yet that gets conveniently dismissed by those committed to taking the negative view.

Von Maur is a great catch. I can't think of anybody who has dismissed it as not a big deal. I'm excited about its opening as well as the changes that should come to QSM as a result.

Von Maur is a great catch. I can't think of anybody who has dismissed it as not a big deal. I'm excited about its opening as well as the changes that should come to QSM as a result.

Just not as big a deal as Tulsa's Sak's, right?